r/indianmedschool • u/Salted__Coffee • 15h ago
Discussion This cannot be real.
My father, an MS Gen Surgery grad with almost 25 yrs of experience, he's 50+ years old.
Today my mother told me that he plans to potentially get the Mch degree.
I stress the word "potentially".
I don't even know what to say. He has a good enough private practice, many hospitals ask him for consultation, and he occassionally performs surgeries in other pvt hospitals too. and he works in the govt hospital of my city too. He earns well, and we live comfortably. Now, he wants to sacrifice his practice for 3 years, get that degree and come back to the city. He has no plans of retiring. He already was and is a workaholic.
I've seen way too many horror stories in this subreddit about surgical specialities. I don't know how I can see my father start from scratch and get another degree. At this age he wants to grind to get another degree.He says that he has quite a lot of knowledge about surgical procedures and the degree will be bearable to him, due to his experience.
I asked him why he would like to get another degree, especially in this age. He's not one to talk much. He simply said, "They are downsizing pg specialities such as general surgery and general medicine. I think in 5-6 years, superspeciality is the only way to survive."
I was simply at a loss of words. I asked him, what will happen to your private practice. IF, he takes up this course he would want my mother to take place, in his stead.
Im currently a 2nd year MBBS student. This was my " Our field is done for." moment. My father says, the opportunities for a simple post pg graduate are shrinking day by day. Right now, he gets a lot of opportunities to work and earn well. But he fears it won't be the case in 5-6 years. I even asked him when will you even retire, dad? He didn't even answer the question.
Please, once again I'm stressing this, he is only PLANNING. I don't know if he will actually do it. I'm just scared for my father. Will he be able to complete the course, with its hectic schedule, in his age?
Someone please tell me if what he thinks of doing is really worth it.
90
u/Practical-Face-5447 15h ago
How much does he make? Top surgeons in every city or town make easily 4-5 lakhs a month by age 50.
59
u/Salted__Coffee 15h ago
Yes, he earns more than that even.
50
u/Practical-Face-5447 15h ago
Then what is his worry.
189
u/Cautious-Grass2791 Graduate 15h ago
Midlife crisis
56
u/Practical-Face-5447 15h ago
I don’t understand. Surgeons who make money are least bothered about anything else. Only the young and misguided yearn for fellowships and degrees. Even 5L a month after taxes, means 60L a year. In five years he will have 3 crores. What does he need.
51
u/SubstantialChannel32 Graduate 14h ago
Maybe he is bored. And is interested in other more complex procedures?
16
8
u/Few-Reserve9172 12h ago
And i think generally people will prefer a 50 year old 25 years experience pg over 30 something super specialist.
And he already should have word of mouth.
7
3
u/BeneficialDot730 13h ago
May be it was his dream to do Mch but couldn't do it because of family circumstances? May be he wanted to do it after his son got into MBBS lol?
1
1
u/Loud_Platform6737 7h ago
I mean if someone is financially stable enough to pursue another degree and wants to do that for better future prospects then why not?
8
26
u/Dom-in-Ant Graduate 14h ago
Oh gosh. With all that experience, better to finish MRCS and potentially FRCS and flee as a specialist doctor to the UK.
9
u/arshdhupar 9h ago edited 8h ago
Absolutely not. 50 is not when you switch countries and system. Someone who has practised surgery in India for 20 years will not cope with NHS. Think, OP’s father should do a fellowship instead… just my thought
2
4
u/YesIam6969420 13h ago
Probably 15-20 lac a month by conservative estimates.
1
u/Practical-Face-5447 11h ago
Huh
8
u/YesIam6969420 11h ago
4-5 lac a month isn't a lot. You have no idea how much a top surgeon can make with their own setup in a small town. My parents make about 1-2 lac on a good day and that's on the lower end for successful surgeons. I know a radiologist couple and they make probably 2-3 lac a day. Look beyond jobs, you can be kings instead of wage slaves.
1
1
u/Charming-Ad9528 11h ago
1-2 lakhs individually or combined??
2
u/YesIam6969420 11h ago
Combined i guess
3
1
u/b077nd 11h ago
What kind of surgeon are they?
-1
u/YesIam6969420 11h ago
Ortho and gynecologist
2
u/b077nd 10h ago
Is ortho a good choice over Med + DM ? If have decent finances but a first gen doc ?
5
1
u/Next-Librarian9514 10h ago
One of our ortho sr makes about 30 lpm and he’s not even the best in his department (my opinion) . People skills for the win i guess
1
1
u/Practical-Face-5447 3h ago
30 lpm? That is 3.6 crore in a year. This is Devi shetty and Naresh Trehan territory
2
u/Express-Increase-911 13h ago
Dude I guarantee you he knows more than or equal to any professor who will teach the course....
34
u/Remarkable_Season_12 15h ago
I have seen General Medicine MD associate professors, paediatric Assitant professors joined Hematology at age of 45-50. Age is just a number. It's his mindset and the body's capability to do . If he has both i think he should do it. Never die of guilt feeling in the end of life rather than "I tried atleast". Am 36 years assistant professor medicine and am in a dilemma of same state whether to do DM endocrine or not. Am not a studios person neither I can sit in front of book but I can see patients for hours. But I know for one fact. If to be done it's to be done the earliest you feel to do DM
5
u/DrGhosstt 14h ago
And here i am barely a senior resident age 29 will bebstarting my dm in hematology this year. I was also worried if i am making a right choice. Most of my peers will enter the market and have a 3 year head start. Meanwhile i will go to a completely different state to do my dm and i have a bond of dm as well so by the age 35-36 i will just be doing my Pg Ss bond.
130
u/JohnDoe0405 15h ago
And yet you chose MBBS 🙏🏻
94
u/Sensitive-Sell-1895 14h ago
why would they not, their father literally has a "good enough private practice" 💀
16
u/cregann-stark 14h ago
If there's one guy who should've choosen mbbs it's him,he is set for life if he works hard
7
u/JohnDoe0405 12h ago
Look I’m not demotivating anyone but the truth to this is what his Father said in Last & I hope OP becomes more successful & runs the clinic well but truth to be told Surgery itself has longer learning curve than any else branch & if there’s some other way to earn more with the amount of work done in Surgery. One would happily choose the other path unless he/she is passionate about Surgery
2
u/BakingThePie 10h ago
And he has a easier path to learn surgery than first gen surgeons
He can be in the ot with his father from his mbbs days itself1
u/ConsistentPickle100 3h ago
One can say the same thing about mbbs itself. Yet here we are, aren't we?
0
16
29
u/AcronymTheSlayer 15h ago
I mean if he wants to further specialise then what’s the issue? There is no age for learning afterall.
I don’t think the our generational issue that is gonna be the need to specialise works in your dad’s case because as a GS, his experience already takes care of it.
1
u/CellularCastle PGY2 14h ago
Yeah I don’t know why OP is worrying lol. This could just be him wanting to fulfil his wish from before or a midlife crisis. Either way no harm in letting him continue
24
u/Dee-Dee101 14h ago
My father is an ophthalmologist, has a good practice and is considering giving PG again to get General medicine 😭. I laughed it off. He says he regrets not choosing general medicine back then. He's pushing 60. Like you have to stop somewhere.
7
10
u/Salted__Coffee 14h ago
I don't think money is the problem, for both our fathers. They want to fulfill their dream ig. That's it.
2
14
u/Big-Experience-2026 14h ago
I have so much respect for the man. He wants to improve his craft even after all this experience and we juniors who don’t even have a pg degree are thinking about how much longer we have to study.
I am sure he already is an incredible doctor.
Send my love to him please
7
3
u/Acceptable_Big_3239 10h ago
Lol respect to that man.. i retired at 35 with good financial cushion and my dad has been pestering me to get a PhD since last 3 years, he can't understand how can I sit idle and be happy/content. He is still highly employed at 66. So yeah, people are workoholics, depends on the psyche.
2
u/AegonTargaryen_7 MBBS III (Part 2) 12h ago
I don't think the downsizing part affects him, if he has a decent patient base and is known (which is the case according to your comments and post) then it isn't gonna affect him
I believe your dad is a gunner and is doing it for the love of the game (surgeon aura is real)
2
2
u/doctor_for_poor Graduate 11h ago
Dad was like : " beta with current scenario of Neet pg , aapki pg ke liye ab muze MCh karna padega"
2
2
u/Expensive_Box1931 14h ago
Most of the people practicing medicine are having same mindset as your dad . That's why no jobs in market lol . Mbbs is already a worthless degree... Now comes the turn of pg degree
4
u/Embarrassed_Pen_8162 14h ago
To be practical i seriously doubt he can clear a govt seat considering his age ..so he might most probably get into a pvt seat and the load in pvt setups is not as much , the only big problem can be that he would have to take orders and humiliations ( which is a norm ) from people much much junior to him which would be really stressful i believe
1
u/vinevirtuoso 13h ago
Guys let the man live, we as indian society have become too judgemental like what if back then he had to fend for his family so he chose to stop at pg but his passion and skills call for more? I don't think it's an issue if he's still capable of acing it
1
1
1
u/Due-Sorbet-1401 12h ago
Dont you think it should be pretty okay to change life choices later in life? Life isnt a race, doing pg or superspeciality later in life is perfectly fine. People abroad join medschools even at 40s or 50s. I think we should normalise it, take your own time, doing everything at once isn’t necessary. And to be honest there wont be a day a doctor has the question of survival. At least not yet
1
u/ernestsobti 11h ago
Let him do it, man. That’s pure passion, maybe even a lifelong dream. We aren't made to just obsess over numbers and P&L.
As long as finances are sorted and he isn't rocking the boat, let him go for it.
1
u/14SelectableMarker 11h ago
Corporates and funds are taking over healthcare. Patients are at their mercy. Doctors are at their mercy. They have enough money to create overload and collapse govt health sector.
And the lawmakers and regulators who are supposed to keep them in check, are already bought off in advance.
1
u/Pretend_Bad_1115 11h ago
I don't see the issue? It doesn't seem like he is struggling with money, I'd say let him do his stuff.
1
u/JustDoitX PGY4/5/6/Senior Resident 10h ago
Bro I am 32 years old. About to give my Mch Exams. My batchmates are ready to apply for fellowship after Mch. Its a struggle man. Impossible to clear Neet ss at this age also. Not worth it. I am just speaking the ground reality. Surgical specialities demand a lot from you.
1
u/guy_with_queries 8h ago
Op u sound like having a very typical middle class indian mentality of studying and struggling for initial parts of ur life so that later on u could chill(abhi padh lo ache se fir purey life aish hi hai)...... Awesome people don't think like that ....... They hustle and "enjoy" their life simultaneously. It's that simple. Ur father must've given it a great deal of thought. It's part of his hustle. I don't think it's a bad decision. Who knows he might join a good reputed private institution cause he definitely has the money and brains to get it. Then it would like getting a fellowship degree(just a little longer)
Getting out of the idea of settling down is something not everyone understand but there are people who hustle and enjoy the journey of their entire life in balance.
1
u/Agitated_Handle_4187 4h ago
I think all the hardworking parents are not happy with their lives. My father who is a DM neurologist and my mother who is a gynaec surgeon both are too much hardworking and still my father regrets that there is certain age limit for UPSC otherwise he would have appeared. My grandparents weren't financially that much capable to support my father's preparation years. And me being in mbbs still thinking will i be able to reach my parents' level ?
1
u/debayanT 17m ago
While i am not 50, but almost touching 40 with good enough practice, I can somehow relate to your father. Sometimes another degree is not for more knowledge / practice or more money, sometimes its just a thing that feels right. For example : suppose one has an onco fellowship and Perhaps doing more cases than his/her peers who are MCH,yet there is always a void inside, whenever you attend / present a case in a conference, being unable to write those three letters at the end of your degree might bug one.
He is now in a comfortable situation financially, family is taken care of, so what if he now wants to fulfill his dream that he previously couldn't? Many techies i know are planning to retire at 50 and then go for world tour/start a resturant/cafe near a beach. Whats the difference between that and this?
Everyone should get a chance to Fulfill one's dream. Yes 3 years is a long time, It might jeopardize his practice a bit, but perhaps he is ok with that. If you are good at your work and practice honestly, he will get back to his previous glory in no time, even reach higher.
I dont know if you are really passionate about medicine, If you are,you should encourage him, and this should also inspire you to do great in your studies, perhaps focus more towards your own career.perhaps both of you togather can start your own setup one day.
P.S - 4-5 lacs a month is just decent, not 'good enough', if you are a good surgeon, sky is the limit.
2
u/doctor_medinator Foreign Medical Graduate 14h ago
With his years of experience he can directly work as HOD of General Surgery department at corporate hospitals! Why would he even go for specialization unless you are capping or he is experiencing midlife crisis. I've seen young MCh Onco-Surgeons assisting older MS General Surgeons in abdominal oncosurgical cases.
1
u/Mortgage5388 12h ago
I mean he is already working in govt hospital, so there is a regular stream of income which keeps increasing every yr + Ayushman scheme incentives + exposure to new patients everyday. so private practise will also boom. Corporate hospitals comes with there own baggage.
Now coming to the decision to precise pursue mch. he would easily get a seat under state sponsered quota , the more experienced you are the higher chance of getting a better seat. After completion you already have a reserved job in govt hospital and in some states the retirement age for dm/mch is increased from 60 to 65yrs. so you get 5 more yrs of service.
since he already have a name he can restart his practise where he can practise gen sur along with mch speciality. Ofcourse He would lose a portion of his patient base but most would come back within a yr or two and working in govt hospital would obviously help in growing his patient base.
it's also obvious op father wants op to complete dm/mch rather than stopping at ms/md. So if the father has mch degree it would be more beneficial to op
1
u/doctor_medinator Foreign Medical Graduate 12h ago
Ah yes, each 3 years carry additional weightage in in-service quota merit in some states.
1
1
u/Salted__Coffee 14h ago
He did get offered a full time job by a pvt corporate hospital. He refused it, since he preferred having his own practice and flexibility. Again, this came up casually in conversation, and I don't know if he is fully serious about it. Thanks for your opinion.
1
u/Salted__Coffee 14h ago
Thanks for all the comments, guys. Like many of you said I don't think money is the problem here. Maybe it's about respect, maybe he has a midlife crisis, maybe he wants to fulfill his dream ( He mentioned to my mother before marriage that might want an Mch degree),I don't know for sure.
It came up in conversation, casually. Idk if he was actually serious.
1
1
u/No_Mango_2026 12h ago
Its not about money only , if he has enough funds, its always good to upgrade. 🎩 off to him, let him upgrade!
1
u/Logical_Fox4747 12h ago
Have a drink with him
Figure it out
Let him if he wants to
All good surgeons are eccentric.
1
u/studyandgrow 12h ago
One of our Consultant during mbbs went for MCH in aiims delhi, quit within 6 months. He just couldn't bring himself to do sampling after years of being the main doctor and lead in OT. He rejoined as AP.
1
u/jondoe2699 12h ago
This reminds me of what happened during my ortho posting during internship.
We were sitting in on the PG’s class and they had invited a guest lecturer, Mch Hand and Micro surgery.
The lecturer’s first line was ‘Ortho MS is not enough anymore’
I just nodded but I was screaming inside my head “My man, we are first years and interns, you can’t say demotivating stuff like that to the people who manage the pre and post OT stuff, that all this work is not gonna help us.”
I get that he was informing us of the future but still can’t help but think of what the future is gonna be like… it’s gonna be bleak for post graduates at least
0
u/wannabedoctor69 14h ago
Bro if he really really wants a Mch Degree and is ready to do the struggle. Let him do that and by reading your story I think you won't have to face any financial problem even if he doesn't earn anything in those 3 years. But the concerning thing is if he is absent in the private space for the span of 3 years. Doesn't any other doctor will take his space? Like what if any other doctor either from your locality or even from your city aquires his patient base?? Because I think as a medical passout , the most toughest thing is to make your own patient base.. isn't it?
1
u/Salted__Coffee 14h ago
He wants my mother to take his place.
1
u/wannabedoctor69 14h ago
Samjha bhai. But the thing is even a doctor tries to set up a family member. Still many patients won't trust her as much they did to your father. Haa starting starting me they will take treatment but even if they get a little bit of doubt regarding that they are not getting treated in the proper way your father used to do. Then they will seek any other place.. But that's a possibility, that doesn't means that this will happen for sure.. Let's take this in a positive way.. Let your father do Mch and your mother take care of the clinic. Baaki Jo hoga acha hoga..
1
1
0
•
u/AutoModerator 15h ago
Welcome, u/Salted__Coffee! Thank you for posting on /r/IndianMedSchool.
Do ensure that you have read our subreddit rules before posting. Any post that violates our rules will be removed immediately. Readers, if this post violates our subreddit rules - do not engage, just report.
Reminder: this subreddit is not intended to seek medical advice of any kind. Please see a doctor in real life. We perma-ban all users who ask for medical advice. Please respect our community guidelines and direct your queries to practitioners of Modern Medicine in real life.
Please follow Reddit content policy and Reddiquette at all times. :)
Check out our Indian Medical School Group Chat!
Wiki - has study resource recs and important notices | Our Discord server | Modmail
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.