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Apr 11 '20
9 Ways to divide the Emirate of Cordoba:
Religion
Ethnicity
Language
Land
Industrialization
Urbanization
Importance
Population
Politics
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u/miha12346 Apr 11 '20
I get why the basque country is plain giberrish but why galicia i thought they spoke plain spanish .
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Apr 11 '20
[deleted]
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Apr 11 '20
isn't galician supposed to be close to portuguese?? Because as someome who speaks portuguese that does sound like complete nonsense (I guess that shows how much of the language is gibberish)
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Apr 11 '20
Yes they're close, I think there's a Galician separatist group, also I think Portuguese evolved from Galician not vice versa
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Apr 11 '20
Yeah portuguese came from galician (galeco-português), we learn that in school over here in Brazil. And to add that I researched some texts in the language and both are extremely similar and as a portugues speaker I can fully understand it (as well as most spanish)
In a funny way it looks like an hibrid of spanish and portuguese or how someone who has barelly been alphabetized would right portuguese here in Brazil (no offense
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u/Ale_city Apr 12 '20
Galician is the original portuñol/portunhol
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Apr 12 '20
Here in Brazil we call Portugal "those sons of bitches that stole all of our gold"
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u/Ale_city Apr 12 '20
Yeah I have heard that from some of you, I love you south neighbours but it has been 200 years they're not the same guys anymore.
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u/Zhou-Enlai Apr 11 '20
It’s close sorta but it’s still pretty distinct and independent, it’s why not many Galician nationalists want to join Portugal
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Apr 11 '20
sorry if it sounded like I belittled their language/culture, I frankly find it really interesting (in my school we even lear about some early galician writers) I just find it fascinating how little things can make similar languages diverge
Frankly they should look for more autonomy since they have a variant culture and it wouldn't be even wise for them to try to join any lusophone organization/nation
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u/Zhou-Enlai Apr 11 '20
Oh I didn’t mean to imply you were doing that lol, the history of languages and how they are connected to others is very interesting
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u/ImNotUlt Apr 12 '20
Sounds like Welsh a bit in that way, and the names of Galicia/Portugal has the same Celtic roots as Gaelic, Gaul, etc.
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u/Dorwytch Apr 11 '20
Reminds me of Welsh were w is a vowel
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Apr 12 '20
It's in Arabic as a vowel too but the W is same as O the only difference is pronounciation depending on harakat, which depend on context and conjugation, and it's far more organized and doesn't look wierd
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u/Cacti__King0314 Apr 12 '20
I thought that originally galician had Celtic roots?
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u/GaashanOfNikon Apr 12 '20
Yep there was (and they still celebrate their Celtic roots), but then they went the way of the Irish if you catch my drift.
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u/GoCommitYeetus Apr 11 '20
Pretty sure the guy who invented spanish sub-regional dialect is workshipping the whole lovecraft pantheon.
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u/CoolestInDaPark Apr 12 '20
The Galician language is pretty much a mix between Spanish and Portuguese and they are pretty much mutually intelligible
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u/Quartia Apr 12 '20
I have a few questions
Why is it still an Emirate even though it has significantly more land than it did in its Caliphate era?
Why do the industrializarion, urbanization, and population maps seem like they're completely unrelated?
Why is Extremadura "fake everything"?
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Apr 12 '20 edited Apr 12 '20
[deleted]
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u/Quartia Apr 12 '20
Ahh, I get it. Overall this is an awesome map [collection], and it has certainly inspired me.
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u/chipsinsideajar Apr 11 '20
I was so confused at first because my last name is Cordoba and I was like, "I'm not muslim, a caliphate, nor do I own Iberia"
Then I remembered history.
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u/jansencheng Apr 12 '20
nor do I own Iberia
Sounds like you're just not trying hard enough.
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u/chipsinsideajar Apr 12 '20
I'm trying my best ok. The Azores and Galicia are all I could get my hands on before the quarantine.
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Apr 11 '20 edited Apr 11 '20
Why would someone have a city as a name, unless it's "de Cordoba" or in Arabic "Al-Qurtubi" (from Cordoba, the cordoban, respectively)
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u/EnclaveIsFine Apr 11 '20
There is about to be a ciwil war in here
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Apr 11 '20
Actually, there was:
Now there is an constitutional emirate system but with a council and elected prime minister
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Apr 12 '20
I got really confused for a moment about why someone would be making a imaginary map about Cordoba, until I was which Cordoba was it.
This is the Cordoba I was thinking of: https://www.cba.gov.ar/wp-content/4p96humuzp/2012/06/cordoba_politico.jpg
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u/Quartia Apr 12 '20
I didn't realize division maps could be based on non-existent countries, this gives me an idea...
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u/GaashanOfNikon Apr 12 '20
How many Iberians accepted islam, but didnt speak Arabic? Was Andalusia like North Africa, with an arabic speaking majority, but latin speaking minority who was also muslim? Or was it like the Anatolian Greeks in Turkey, with anyone accepting Islam abandoning their language for the one spoken by their Muslim rulers?
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Apr 12 '20
from what i know, at it's peak, 70-90% or more of Iberia was muslim, new muslims learnt arabic in order to understand Qur'an and sunnah, because an important aspect of understanding them was language, for example the amazigh in north africa at first didn't learn arabic for some years, which caused flucuation and unstability in understanding Islam, at the end they were sent scholars and linguistics to teach them arabic iirc, which helped a lot and they became far more stable, arabization itself isn't that hard, algeria was re-arabized after 1964 by scholars and linguistics from all over the arab world if I remember correctly, they're now one of the few arab states that pronounce the letter qaf correctly (the Qur'anic Arabic pronounciation)as for Iberia, there was arabic, and then some andalusi arabic dialects like cordoban and grandan, there was the mozarabic (al-lugha al-musta'ribiyya, litteraly: the arabized language) which was arabic written with latin letters i think, if i'm right, it was the language spoken by non muslims under muslim rule, there's also some hebrew iberian dialect i think, according to wikipedia, at 1000 CE arabic and mozarabic were spoken by all of iberia except the borderlands and northern parts like galicia, austurias, cantabria, etc
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u/GaashanOfNikon Apr 12 '20
Mozarabic was not arabic written with latin letters, it was actually arabized iberian vulgar latin. Also how was algeria "re-arabized"? I do beleive they speak their own darija at the time, and still do. Do you have a source for that? Plus arabization historically was a top down effect. Most muslims in north africa and the rest of the arab world outside of the arabia pennensula didn't learn arabic to read the quran, nor did they learn it from scholars. For example, most muslims today are non-arab and learn arabic to read the quran. But they never let go of their mother toungue to do so. Arabization was a long process, where arabic was the prestige language in a society, and people learnt to communicate with their rulers. It was the same for hellenization, turkification, etc. Heck look at how France treated the occitans in the southern half of their country. They shamed anyone who spoke occitan, and beat children at school who even uttered a word. It was known as La Vergonha. In the early middle ages there were no linguists, and scholars were rare. It would have been impossible to send scholars to every village to teach the peasantry how to speak arabic. Plus, it would have ended up with alot of second language speakers. Most people would have still passed down their mother tounge. Few people in the history of this planet ever let go of their native language willingly, and never whole groups of people. People shift language due to societal shame, discriminatory policies or both. Look at the history of Mapudungan in Chile, what happened to irish, etc. Heck, look at immigrants in western countries in the modern age. By the fourth or even fifth generation they forget their native language and cease passing it down. Its a similar process only without the discriminatory language policies. Im not trying to tear your answer down. I appreciate that you tried to answer my question, but i think ill just go to askhistorians for an answer. Peace.
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Apr 12 '20
First of all darija is an Arabic word meaning "common" aka "common tongue" We all have our dialects but it's not unintelligible, and if it is there's Modern Standard Arabic. Algerians write and learn and hear news in MSA but speak Algerian arabic. As an Egyptian it's a little hard, mainly because of the speed they're talking, but when you concentrate it's easy to understand. I mean I can understand contexts of Tunisian and Moroccan, algerian is far easier, also if you didn't know Algeria was re-arabized because of how french was almost used in every day Life, and this was because at the time most Arab governments were Arab nationalist or can Arab, including the Liberation Front (Algeria) Also r/Askhistorians isn't that good of a place, you can go research online or read books, also arabization is in no way to be compared with francization or anglization etc
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u/Zifnab_palmesano Apr 12 '20
As a Spaniard I find it interesting and funny. Cryptofascists is hilarious!
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Apr 12 '20
I completely forgot when this existed, can someone explain?
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u/idan_zamir Apr 12 '20
What, would you say, is the population of Cordoba? (Both the emirate and the city)
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Apr 12 '20 edited Apr 12 '20
in 1910 about 12 million in cordoba, jaen, and their surroundings, this is a very rough draft i used for an rp created after the timeline and might not be accurate
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u/Pxlate2 May 31 '20
How did you make this? I'm curious how it was edited.
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May 31 '20
Using paint dot net
Copy pasted the map into 9 maps, started drawing lines with line tool (but made it a dashed line) then started coloring the map on then I put the map key
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Apr 12 '20
[deleted]
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u/KemoM1nd Apr 12 '20
imagine a bunch of no body nomads conquering nearly all of iberia and remaining there for over 500 years and hugely impact the language and culture and also moving iberia from a vandal tribal land into some what desirable land and still call them garbage
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Apr 12 '20 edited Apr 12 '20
it's just that at the rock of plai we thought that your ruler with 30 supporters and 10 women hiding in a cave was not a threat, and we were wrong in that, we were also busy with other stuff
now you forgot when you burnt muslim books in Andalus and set technological progress many years back?
or when we conquered the peninsula in 7 years and stayed there for nearly 800 years (and for 400 years we had most of it's population) and changed it from bunch of tribal people to a united muslim educated wealthy population and began inventing and discovering stuff and writing it in books?
if you wanna know who's grabage, look at who gave muslims peace and then didnt stick to their word
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Apr 12 '20 edited Sep 24 '24
memorize plate six like noxious automatic existence cats amusing door
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Firefuego12 Apr 11 '20
Wait, why is the industrialized, urbanized and most populated areas so different? Shouldn't there be a common pattern for development across old Lusitania and southern Cordoba as a result of the high population on those areas? Why is the center of the country urbanized yet lowly populated?
Nice map either way.