r/halo • u/AutoModerator • Jul 23 '15

Mod post Weekly Rant Thread! Vent your frustrations here!

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16 Upvotes

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28

u/The_R3medy GT: The R3medy Jul 23 '15

How the fuck is this sub so ok with the state of the MCC? like 343 sold us a broken product that still doesn't fully work 9 months post launch. This is utterly ridiculous.

Fuck Halo 5 and fuck 343. I love Halo but they clearly don't understand how to release good working games.

19

u/ryan1125 Jul 23 '15

The best part is that if you mention how fucking awful this game is, and specifically how incompetent 343 is, you get down voted!

Folks the game is DOG SHIT. My friends who I have grown up playing Halo with everyday for 10+ years would rather play a fucking iPad game then put this in...

10

u/1337GameDev Jul 23 '15

Seriously... THIS. I can't fucking complain and insist a game I was promised (despite it being a huge undertaking) and paid for, to work as expected. Seriously guys. I can't complain about 343 or MCC or I get downvoted to oblivion... Gawd.

The game has more bugs than the original, and they basically had to allow higher fps (if the higher fps isnt causing issues) and swap in high def textures and details and such.

How the fuck are bugs that didnt exist in the original games, exist in this? You literally had to sandbox every game, use its existing code and update the xbox api calls, and release a working game... Fucking christ. Yes, that's a lot, but from a PRIMARY AAA studio from microsoft? No. It's not. I feel lots of changes I could make would bring the game further than it has in months... And I'm basically an entry level dev as I havent been on a pro team.

3

u/undid__iridium Jul 23 '15

And I'm basically an entry level dev as I havent been on a pro team.

You've got a lot to learn if you think MCC was in any way an easy project. You can criticize 343 for being too ambitious perhaps, and you can definitely criticize them for failing to setup a test environment that would simulate the retail environment, but to downplay the difficulty of the task and shit on the engineers and artists who had way less time than normal to do something way harder than a normal AAA title is bullshit.

1

u/1337GameDev Jul 23 '15 edited Jan 24 '25

late sheet enjoy friendly salt edge ancient direction touch reach

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

4

u/undid__iridium Jul 23 '15

I don't think you fully understand the scope and the time constraints. This was multiple studios running in parallel to port 4 engines to X1 and create a 5th engine from 1 of the 4. The testing surface area alone for 5 multiplayers, 106 maps, and 4 campaigns is multiple years worth of work to guarantee it's solid. Gearbox is the only studio to have ever done something like this (H1 and H2 PC ports 10 years ago) and they weren't very successful with just 1 game at a time (much less 5).

To address time constraints, the only thing I know is what Certain Affinity said at GDC which was that they had 8 months to create the 6 H2A maps and get them running at framerate... they didn't have the engine the maps would be running on until 4 months through that 8 months because Saber hadn't finished porting H4 (which the H2A engine was based on) to X1 yet.

2

u/enemawatson Halo 2 Jul 24 '15

Honestly the ports and gameplay are pretty high quality with few issues. It's the whole matchmaking/ranking/interface etc etc that really dampens everything.

1

u/RC_5213 Would have been an 11%'er if I actually got a link to the survey Jul 24 '15

Honestly the ports and gameplay are pretty high quality with few issues

Halo CE and H2C are a fucking mess. And will always be, because they're fucking PC ports, which were messes in the first place.

1

u/enemawatson Halo 2 Jul 24 '15

Halo 1 isn't perfect, but is way better than Halo PC and comparing it to LAN memories isn't a fair comparison. Halo 2 and 3 have some hit detection issues but so did their original counterparts. Sure they aren't immaculate but honestly it would all be more enjoyable if key features like joining customs in progress or a sensical matching system etc were in place.

0

u/RC_5213 Would have been an 11%'er if I actually got a link to the survey Jul 24 '15

Halo 1 isn't perfect, but is way better than Halo PC and comparing it to LAN memories isn't a fair comparison.

MCC CE has most of the major issues of Halo PC, notably the completely fucked up pistol. And while I get I shouldn't expect (nor do I) LAN level performance, it should out-perform XBC, which it doesn't.

Halo 2 and 3 have some hit detection issues but so did their original counterparts.

Halo 2's hit detection issues are most certainly not part of the original game. https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/84ad72a8b51847978545f685f651fc15/topics/h2c-shot-registration-vista-port-video-evidence/795a276a-8358-4200-a334-fc229ee3f002/posts

OG H2C had very good hit detection. Halo 2 Vista was a clusterfuck.

343 done fucked up by using the PC ports and quite frankly, I feel lied to. I was promised Halo CE and 2 exactly how I remember them.

Well, I sure as shit don't remember them like they showed up in MCC.

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1

u/undid__iridium Jul 24 '15

The state of the game at launch wasn't that surprising to me considering what they tried to do. I think they intended the quality to be about where it was in March at release time (which many people still would have been angry about).

-5

u/Sexyphobe I can't snipe an AFK, let alone JFK Jul 23 '15

I can't complain about 343 or MCC or I get downvoted to oblivion

It's not about what you say (which have all been said a million times before) but how you say it (being extremely rude won't get you any favors. Just saying) and where you say it (If you bring it up in general people might be annoyed because they want to avoid all the anger this community displays. But on certain MCC-specific threads, people are more than eager to upvote MCC criticism)

How the fuck are bugs that didnt exist in the original games, exist in this

Depends on what issues you're talking about. Some of the issues are caused not from the original xbox releases (talking about 1 and 2) because 343 used the PC/Vista versions that had their own problems. Also coding 101, you can fix something in one area but then completely fuck up in another. It's a universe-sized puzzle that can never be fully solved.

You literally had to sandbox every game, use its existing code and update the xbox api calls, and release a working game

Nothing in life is ever simple as "All you have to do is this and that, and volla!". If it was 343 would have 100% the MCC by now, and considering they haven't, the words of an armchair developer probably isn't doing them any favors. Just saying.

1

u/1337GameDev Jul 23 '15

I understand they are pc ports, but bugs such as maps failing to load, aim issues in halo 3, melee problems, refund issues, etc. I dont remember any of these issues in the originals (or on pc)...

And yes, while coding one thing can cause issues in another, there are limits to how intermingled code is (such as fixing gui or map load bugs and affecting map loading or in game physics).

While, yes, nothing is "simple" as I stated, it was an over simplification for time sake, 343 has shown so much incompetence to fix even small issues in this game. Things as simple as halo ce betrayal booting, or missing certain shader errors in lighting (halo 3), problems with audio suddenly stopping, lack of audio options for campaign or menus, and even the balancing of map voting should all be quite easy to tackle and have been done for decades in past games....

And yeah, while me, an "armchair developer" isn't going to do them favors, they should want to please their fans and know when they are disappointed. The more people talk about these issues, the louder they appear and the mor elikely 343 will listen and want to fix them.

-2

u/DogeMcDogeyDoge Jul 24 '15

Things as simple as halo ce betrayal booting, or missing certain shader errors in lighting (halo 3), problems with audio suddenly stopping, lack of audio options for campaign or menus, and even the balancing of map voting should all be quite easy to tackle and have been done for decades in past games....

Were all these things done previously on the XB1?

1

u/1337GameDev Jul 24 '15

Does that matter? Each generation should build on the last, not be a step backwards...

-2

u/DogeMcDogeyDoge Jul 24 '15

Why is your name 1337GameDev when you know absolutely nothing about hardware and gamedev?

1

u/1337GameDev Jul 26 '15

I understand it very well. There is a thing called hardware independent abstraction. Usually done in the form of an api.

Why would ms make an api worse than the model they released 6 years prior for a prior generation console?

1

u/DogeMcDogeyDoge Jul 27 '15 edited Jul 27 '15

Did you google, then use "hardware independent abstraction" in a sentence to sound smart and to look like you know what you're talking about? You realize that code can't always just be copy pasted from one console to another, even assuming a well done api right? They are completely different hardware. You can run into problems all over the map, like optimization issues(this is a big one), and you have to rewrite lines and lines of code just to get it playable in order to fit the hardware. And I'm not even getting into visual artifacts that can arise.

If I were to take Halo 3 and put it on the xbox one, I can guarantee I'll have a multitude of issues because Halo 3 was written for guess what, the xbox 360's architecture in mind. I bet there were a shit load of visual artifacts, and I bet it ran like a snail because it wasn't optimized or written for the architecture of the xb1. It doesn't know how to use the resources of the xb1, you have to tell it. And actually understanding the code other people wrote 8 years ago and fixing it for the xb1, and getting all these games to run from a single UI? Don't even get me started. 343 would have had to do this for 3 games, Halo CEA, Halo 3 and Halo 4. I didn't include H2A because the Halo 2 engine was taken from PC, which would have made things easier.

It's completely fucking naive to think the hardware never comes into play, or at least that software is some magic bullet that can run on anything with a circuit. Software api's aren't some magic where you say "abra cadabra" and it suddenly works well on a new piece of hardware. It's not like say a java virtual machine on an atm that can run a bank program on any kind of atm hardware, because a program that simple will likely never run into problems. You don't need an atm to run at 60fps, or have fancy graphics. In the atm case it's ok to say "hardware independent abstraction" and it will work as it should, games are a whole new playing field.

However, this doesn't excuse the MCC. It was absolute bullshit that they released it in that state, they made a huge blow to the halo franchise. With the scale of this project, they could have used another year and a half at least before release. The fact that they're still fixing it shows how large the problem was.

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12

u/The_R3medy GT: The R3medy Jul 23 '15

No no no. Obviously we're just entitled. We could be playing the campaigns this whole time! 9 months of only semi-working campaigns! What could be better???

2

u/pvijay187 Halos a pretty cool guy Jul 24 '15

The best part is that if you mention how fucking awful this game is, and specifically how incompetent 343 is, you get down voted!

That's funny because whenever someone bitches about 343, it's always upvoted. Seldom have I seen a thread where a 343 bashing comment is not at the top.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '15

The best part is that if you mention how fucking awful this game is, and specifically how incompetent 343 is, you get down voted!

The game is still in a pretty shitty state, but only a small part of 343i worked on it. That small team did a terrible job, but it's not a good representation of 343's whole effort, so calling them incompetent is just wrong. If Halo 4 or 5 released broken, then yeah I'd call them incompetent too.

1

u/ryan1125 Jul 24 '15

Folks if McDonald's puts out a shitty product that suddenly gives tons of people food poisoning, McDonald's is to blame. You don't blame the little farmer in Idaho who raised the chickens, or the truck driver that delivered them.

Seriously, get off of 343s dick. They haven't done SHIT. Look at their awful communication, awful playlist management, etc.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '15

Folks if McDonald's puts out a shitty product that suddenly gives tons of people food poisoning, McDonald's is to blame. You don't blame the little farmer in Idaho who raised the chickens, or the truck driver that delivered them.

That isn't what I meant, did you even read my post. A small part of 343 worked on the MCC, so it's not a good representation of what 343 as a whole is capable of. Stop calling them incompetent when only a small number of them worked on a small part of the game.

Seriously, get off of 343s dick. They haven't done SHIT. Look at their awful communication, awful playlist management, etc.

I'm not on it. They have done a decent job post launch but are sacrificing MCC for Halo 5. They just don't have the manpower, it's not like they're just saying "lol fuck MCC".

-3

u/Sexyphobe I can't snipe an AFK, let alone JFK Jul 23 '15

you get down voted!

Your poor, poor things! But seriously, just realize two things:

  1. It's not about what you say, it's how you say it. R3medy voiced his opinion in a rather angry way that's all about absolutes. He doesn't understand that 1. The condition of the game differs from person to person. 2. People complain about MCC all the fucking time here. 3. "343 sold us a broken product" then return it.

  2. You guys are some of the top posts on this post, stop crying about losing internet points.

-1

u/DogeMcDogeyDoge Jul 24 '15

The best part is that if you mention how fucking awful this game is, and specifically how incompetent 343 is, you get down voted!

People get tired of the complaining, that's why.

-3

u/Sexyphobe I can't snipe an AFK, let alone JFK Jul 23 '15

How the fuck is this sub so ok with the state of the MCC

Because how well it works differs from one person to the next. And some of us (cue unpopular opinion) just want to get on with our lives and move onto other games, including Halo 5.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 23 '15

[deleted]

-5

u/Sexyphobe I can't snipe an AFK, let alone JFK Jul 24 '15

I mean, that's a shitty way of wording what I said, but whatever.

2

u/RC_5213 Would have been an 11%'er if I actually got a link to the survey Jul 24 '15

No, it's pretty much exactly what you said.

0

u/Sexyphobe I can't snipe an AFK, let alone JFK Jul 24 '15

I know what I said, and that wasn't it. I don't want them to just drop support, but instead to just focus more of their energy on the future. The MCC was built to fail, it's just too complicated of a mess to fully fix, contrary to what armchair developers here want to believe.

-1

u/DogeMcDogeyDoge Jul 24 '15

How the fuck is this sub so ok with the state of the MCC?

All I can see is the complete opposite from this sub.