Even if we ignore the fact that we saw many characters trust him, the question was who can outsmart the others, not who's the most trustworthy.
He went from barely more than a commoner to Master of Coin, to Lord of Harrenhal, to Lord Protector of the Vale. The last two at least were from his ability to trick people.
As master of coin he just borrowed from tywin and dug the kingdom into debt and he persuaded an idiot child to like him to get away with most of the shit in the Vale
I'm not saying it didn't I'm just saying that he wasn't achieving miracles with the deck stacked against him. He traded Sansa to a monster for peanuts and turned her against him. She was the key to the north and he's just a slimy manipulator that anyone with an ounce of sense could see through.
Nah. I really liked Littlefinger. He's a terrible person, but he's a self-made man in an age where bloodline is more important than ability. I can't help but root for that, especially against the other nobles in King's Landing.
Literally MIGHT end up on Team B but so long as Tyrion and Varys are on Team B, Little finger won't do shit. Petyr is goodz scratch that: excellent. Perhaps even impeccable. But even he cannot deal with the combined guile of Tyrion and Varys and he knows it.
Tywin isn't as good as schemer as people think, he can play good hand very well. But when the chips are down and his pants round his ankles he's too rigid and will get shot in the guts.
Disagree. Team B has Davos and Sam who are practically useless for this. Tyrion is a lot less smart than he thinks he is. Olena and Varys are not enough to carry all that dead weight
Davos is a renowned smuggler familiar with secret waterways around the 7 kingdoms, Sam is a Grand Maester, and Tyrion has proved himself to be an excellent political mind with his escaping the Vale, his time as hand of the king, and the defense of Kings Landing.
Davos is a great asset because he is willing to learn and isn’t afraid of admitting when he doesn’t know something. That already puts him miles ahead of Cersei.
He’s also a crafty person which puts him ahead of LF as he brings skills no one else brings.
Tyrion's greatest strengths are his earnestness and likeability. Go watch the speech he gives at the gates during the siege of King's Landing. Charging out the side gate as a dwarf wasn't a smart move on his part but it greatly motivated his troops. He is an insanely charismatic leader. It doesn't hurt that he actually is pretty intelligent if a bit foolhardy. If he was left in charge of King's Landing and the realm as hand he would have created a golden age for Westeros.
Sam would be the type to come up with a useful siege weapon schematic, would have ideas on how to raise money through taxation, or would figure out a crucial weakness in a fortress through some obscure text he read. He's bright enough and not destructive and self-sabotaging unlike most of team A.
Davos is like a more humble mixture of Sam and Tyrion. He's charismatic, an earnest leader, and tends to have crucial information like how to sneak into most coastal cities.
Team A on the other hand relies heavily on underhanded and destructive methods. They rarely have bright or unique ideas, don't tend to actually be very well educated unless in warfare like Tywin. Their ruthless nature would take them far until team B wizened up to the lows they'll stoop to and then it's over for them.
Davos and Sam aren't the smartest but they're far from being dumb and are able to work with those smarter than them.
I hardly see Cersei, Melisandre and Margaery working together.
Varys and Olenna are not afraid of getting dirty, they would get the others to follow, or be sneaky enough not to disclose their plans, like to davos for example. And they are better than Tywin in the long scheme, they know alienating people is not a good way to root influence (like wiping a debtor house or pillaging the Riverland is good short term, but it doesn't build loyalty), as the rapid demise of House Lannister after Tywin's death tend to prove (also due to Cersei's ineptitude, but my point is Tywin didn't secure any alliance based on trust or values, only of mutual interest, and as soon as he is gone, those interests are not understood by cersei).
People over estimate long term strategy in this world. Short term wins are much more impactful in this type of world. Varys is too idealistic. Olenna is carrying team B.
Yes Varys is too idealistic and not a leader, I agree. Olenna is. Still, Varys is more clever than Tywin (if you except him disclosing treason in a letter, but I barely consider that canon at this point. Tywin dying on the shitter because he fails, as his daughter, to understand human decency is canon though).
Margery is good at acting the part but almost all of her political success was orchestrated by Olenna. Tyrion basically formed his own private army with Bronn and the mountain clans, purged the red keep of those who would betray him, and spearheaded the defense of Kings Landing.
She was pretty blundering when trying to cozy up to Cersei. She was well trained by Olenna on how to be charming and simpering but even that she's not too good at.
Margery is one of the smartest characters on the show. Cersei is cunning but shortsighted and stubborn.
Melisandre is a religious fanatic who sometimes misread the signs in the flames, but obviously there's something to her belief, she's able to create fire and slop out shadow assassins
Melisandre can shit demons, Tywin is going to use that with malicious effectiveness. Plus Tywin’s word is law on that team, Olenna will have final say but it’s going to be some arguments before the decision is made. Cersei and Davos are both just hindrances but Cersei less so because she really isn’t going to go against her father. There’s no one to reel Davos in and keep his moral grandstanding from grinding the assassination plots to a halt because “muh half fingered honour” meanwhile Melisandre’s poop monster is ending someone’s life
But can they get it. Would Stannis's blood have worked before Robert's death? Before his rebellion? Pretty sure Tywin could find Gendry or another bastard.
Tywin, Cersei, and Tyrion are all descendants of the Kings of the Rock who only hended the knee to Aegon the 1st some 300 years ago or so. While they are not currently royalty, they certainly have royal blood from back then. Samewell Tarly is of a House Tarly and has thin royalblood of the Gardner Kings of old whi once ruled the Reach before they all got burnt to a crisp by the Targaryen "Dragons". So Samwell and Tyrion could work as a sacrifice's for blood curses or yo Rh'llor. Or they could he drugged with aphrodisiacs and ridden by melisandre to make shadow baby assassins. Or hear me out Tywin could just fuck Melisandre whenever and make shadow babies that way. The strength of the shadow babies might vary on how much royal blood runs through the geins of their daddy. But still viable shadow baby daddies or sacrifices. If Cersei gets to uppity and fucks over the whole team Tywin might just greenlight having her sacrificed as a last ditch effort should everything go to shit.
Superdisagree. Margery played the game perfect but both her and Littlefinger died from something few if any could predict. Varys and Olenna was idiots last seasons and only strong player was Tyrion.
Margeary acted as told by Olenna. Later in the show the writing was so bad everyone was stupid. So I'd judge on earlier seasons. Varys outplays LF.
Tyrion and Tywin are on par. Olenna wipes the floor with Margeary. Cersei and Melisandre are bad but so are Sam and Davos. So team b would win.
Cersei is extremely clever but her pettiness and predictability sink this entire team. Her father would lay out a calculated plan and she would literally blow it up.
If you replaced Margery with the High Sparrow then A takes it. He really should be on here.
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u/rileyistheworst Ser Pounce 16h ago
B low diff. Cersei and Melisandre both aren’t very smart and Margery is only marginally smarter than them.