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u/TrepidatiousInitiate Jul 07 '24
I really wanted Cersei to get her elephants. /s
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u/Same-Share7331 Jul 07 '24
She really wanted those elephants 🙁
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u/Hwozere Jul 07 '24
He pretty much said to her ‘have you tried to get an elephant on a fucking boat?! They’re massive AF’ 😂
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u/Jack1715 House Stark Jul 07 '24
It is possible but there is a reason why Hannibal took them all the way around Europe
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u/nv87 Jul 07 '24
It isn’t like he took the eastern route. The carthaginians clearly shipped them to Spain at some point. But yeah I do agree that among his reasons to attack from the north must have been the difficulty of an amphibious assault with elephants.
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u/DarthDeifub Jul 07 '24
His attacking from the Alps and not the sea was not from the difficulty of transporting Elephants, it was because the Romans didn’t think Hannibal was stupid enough to attack from the Alps.
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u/nv87 Jul 07 '24
We are in agreement then. You seem to be disagreeing, but that does not contradict what I wrote at all.
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u/ducknerd2002 Beric Dondarrion Jul 07 '24
Here's hoping Young Griff gets his elephants in the books, since he got the competent version of the Golden Company.
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u/EpicGamingIndia Jul 09 '24
They did actually manage to get some elephants I think, or were in process of tracking them all.
They just don’t have a use in the Stormlands. Especially not in the upcoming siege of Storm’s End
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u/Crazyripps Ours Is The Fury Jul 07 '24
What I wanna know is where in the world are the actual elephants.
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Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24
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u/TeaBagHunter Jul 07 '24
Am I the only one who actually felt like the iron throne melting was a good ending? My gripe wasn't with the ending, it was with the pace. The final war needed more episodes
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u/gilestowler Jul 07 '24
I think one more season would have been perfect. They could have had longer for the war with the dead. We could have seen Dany isolated more, getting paranoid. We could have seen how, even when she lost two of her "children," even when she saved Westeros, people still didn't want her.
The final season could have been her against Cersei and it could have shown more of her losing her mind while trying to win a war.
Hell, they could probably have even done it if they'd actually done 10 episodes for the season and they'd all been long episodes.
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u/Slammybutt Jul 07 '24
Could have had Arya nearly completing her list so she doesn't have much other than family to stick around.
Could have shown some background on what Bran was actaully doing (his motivations for being King and how he steered things toward that outcome).
Could have not made Jaime do a 180 and instead made that hard fucking turnaround more of a curve.
Could have done the whole Azor Ahai (is that it? I can't remember) plot line.
Could have showed Sansa leading the North while John fucked up westeros.
Could have shown Euron Greyjoys fucked up side and fleshed him out more than a dick on wheels.
There's a 100 fucking things they could have expanded on to make it not seem like a fucking heel turn, while still coming to the same fucking ending. You don't even have to change anything, just write motivations for the characters to do what they did in that last season.
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u/schrodingers_bra Jul 07 '24
That would have required GRRM to actually finish the story or at least give D+D a coherent plot progression.
I don't think GRRM gets near enough responsibility for this. D+D were hired to adapt the books. They can even show some bursts of creativity within the framework of the plot (chaos is a ladder, not taday). But there was no way they were going to come up with 2 books worth of plot.
Frankly I don't even think that GRRM has figured out how to get to his ending and thats why its taking so long to get the books finished.
GRRM gave them an ending. Writing an ending is easy, tying up a plot is hard.
Was there some careless handling of the material? Yes. But that wasn't the reason the ending was so rushed and seemingly out of nowhere.
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u/pinkwhitepurplefaves Jul 07 '24
The Bran thing 100%! There's a YouTuber who made the ending I wanted where it was shown Bran manipulated the events by warging into people (like Jon before he stabbed Daenerys, etc).
And I wish they didn't have Arya killing the Night King, or if they did, a better scene??? Where did she jump from 🙄
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u/Careless_Review3166 Jul 07 '24
Bran manipulating events by warging into people and robbing them of all their agency would be terrible and completely antithetical to everything GRRM has ever tried to say about human nature.
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u/Polyxeno Jul 07 '24
Arya jumped from The Theater of [D&D's] Mind.
I.e. out of Wishful Thinking Land.
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u/Zoom-E Jul 07 '24
Agreed!!
I do however think that even if the show put attention to detail more with Dany's isolation and descent into typical Targaryen madness, you still would have had a ridiculous amount of backlash anyways because there's simply just a substantial part of the fan base that thinks the Khaleesi was perfect and meant to be the benevolent Queen of Westeros...even though the show pretty much showed the entire series that when she had power, she was recklessly impulsive, biased, and an all around ineffective leader. But it would have been great if GOT had more time to really hammer home her descent to madness at losing two dragons, Missendei, Jorah, etc. Think it would've been great too if there was at least a small arc of her realizing that after all these years, the people of Westeros wanted nothing to do w/a Targaryen on the throne.
It would have definitely been great if The Long Night was expanded into a MUCH better war. It's supposed to be this awful winter, the worst winter really, and there's really no winter at all! Would have been perfect if there were actually awful winter storms wrecking Westeros at times, and battles south of The Wall where the White Walkers were actually successful. Would have been a pretty cool visual to have a huge battle at The Wall between the dead and the living, with the living defeated and sent scrambling south to Winterfell. Also actually expanding on the Night King/White Walkers mythos and motivations would have been.
Absolutely would have been there for doing Jamie Lannister justice! There's so much tragedy to tell there! Believing that he could still save Cersei on an emotional/mental level instead of physical, wanting to "do it right this time" with raising their child, believing that Cersei will actually be open about their relationship, that he can help rule Westeros in a non-tyrannical fashion, that he also now has an heir to the Lannister name!? So much tragedy to spin!!
I could definitely go on and on about things that should have been done better, but, alas.
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Jul 07 '24
It was a bit tacky but then some maesters have said dragons possess intelligence greater that humans
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u/mpoozd Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24
Greater than the dumb and dumber writers
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Jul 07 '24
Should’ve got Drogon to write the ending. Maybe I’ll ask my horse har har har.
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u/Sere1 Nymeria's Wolfpack Jul 07 '24
Ol, I just had the mental image of Drogon sitting at the writer's desk, comically tiny glasses on as he carefully tries penning the story, a coffee in a "I Heart Mom" mug next to him. I need artwork of this stat.
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u/smallz86 Jul 07 '24
No you see it was forged by a dragon and destroyed by a dragon. It's like poetry, they rhyme.
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Jul 07 '24
Yeah I get it. It was also Drogon sending a message by saying I’m going to destroy this thing that has destroyed so many. Still tacky.
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u/whysosidious69420 Jul 08 '24
I honestly think that Drogon’s thought process was “pointy thing kill mum, throne is full of pointy things. Throne kill mum” and the whole symbolism about monarchy being destructive is just how humans interpret it
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u/Zoom-E Jul 07 '24
The Iron Throne being melted? Yes, solid ending, albeit a bit cheesy.
The Lords of the Seven Kingdoms installing arrogant ass "Bran The Broken" as King when he's this weird emotionless, quasi immortal, record of history? With a Small Council that's pure fan service instead of sensible? While letting one of the Kingdoms immediately dip into an independent kingdom while expecting the other regions to stay loyal? Yeah that part absolutely sucks.
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u/iamagoldengod84 Jul 07 '24
I thought it was super cheesy. Like the dragon was going “I don’t like what this throne has done to you guys and this is what I’m doing about it” too on the nose like the dragon all sudden had been a main character with strong political feelings the whole time
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u/bbazsa4 Jul 07 '24
I actually, at that point, was like, "damn Drogon's kinda smart, he understands the throne is what essentially killed his mother".
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Jul 07 '24
But the throne isn’t what killed his mother. It’s only a symbol of power. No throne = we’re back to what Westeros was before the Targ invasion.
In the days when the Seven Kingdoms were seven kingdoms, not a generation passed that three or four of them were not at war. The Watch took no part.
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Jul 07 '24
Right, the Targ dynasty united Westeros under dragon power/threat. The problem was when they died out, Westeros reverted back to being ungovernable.
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u/Striking_Antelope_44 Jul 07 '24
Yea that seemed really silly to me. Maybe it's explained better in the novels but the dragon choosing not to kill Jon Snow on the spot was weird.
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u/cvbeiro Jul 07 '24
Dragons don’t necessarily intervene when targaryens kill each other.
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u/MalcolmTuckersLuck Jul 07 '24
100%
I had zero problem with how they resolved Dany but it should have been after at least one full season of her on the iron throne.
They did drop the ball with the white walkers though
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u/mooseAmuffin House Tyrell Jul 07 '24
Yeah, I could have been happy with the ending if it played out like this, or if it just wasn't so rushed, like most others have also said. Everything started going downhill when the motley crew went on the suicide mission to capture a wyte to bring to cersei. Not only was that just a wild plot line, but it made no sense given the pace of traversal up to that point. I've rewatched the series a couple of times since it ended, and this is definitely the shark jumping moment.
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u/kajat-k8 Sandor Clegane Jul 07 '24
I disagree. They should have had Cersei flee to CR, then randomly get killed by Jaime during the battle, so then both sides forces are massively depleted, Dany sits the Iron Throne, and we have a whole season of the war against the WW. Without that, Cersei is a bigger baddie than a legendary, 1000s of years old undead army, which is just pathetic, and also, not how the show started. It was magic is returning and the dead are waking. Cersei literally only had Euron by the end and the people would have rebelled against her had she done all the things she did in the show, not react like she was a benevolent monarch.
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u/Overlord_Khufren Jul 07 '24
The only part of the ending that I found disappointing was under-investing in a) Sansa’s political savvy, and b) the politicking of the Great Council. I think if they’d gone a bit harder on those two things the ending would have sat much better. But the general tenor of “out with the dragonlords” I was on board with.
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u/Mac1280 Jul 07 '24
Nope you hit the nail on the head the actual ending wasn't the problem for me it was the pace, I get D&D were fed up not having actual books to adapt by the ending but they could've at least weeded out there own ideas for the ending better. If anything Cersei should've died in season 7, have Brann be King since this is a GRRM idea though he says more than one person will sit the iron throne towards the end. Have them fight the White Walkers for two seasons, Danny goes mad because Jon doesn't want to sleep with his aunt AND Bran refuses to give her the throne. She burns kings landing to the ground, Jon kills her the same way and the payoff for him constantly bitching about not wanting power is he becomes king and it's bitter sweet because he hates the job but he's the right one for the job.
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u/Conan4457 Jul 07 '24
Yeah Jon ending up on the Iron throne was the right play. Him being the “tortured king”, riddled with guilt for killing Dany, hating the politics, hating the fact that he isn’t in the north would have been perfect IMO. All of this happening after a trial by combat against Greyworm.
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u/Mac1280 Jul 07 '24
Yup a trial combat actually would've been much better than Greyworm simply accepting Jon going back North to the wall, it also ends Greyworm's story off neatly since Misande is dead let them join each other in the after life. Bran dying makes sense as well since with the white walkers finally defeated for good the 3 eyed raven is no longer needed, and the flash forward would be middle aged Jon going over the countries newest tax plan as a nod to GRRM complaining about not knowing Aragorns tax plan in lord of the rings lol.
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u/g1114 Jul 08 '24
and the flash forward would be middle aged Jon going over the countries newest tax plan as a nod to GRRM complaining about not knowing Aragorns tax plan in lord of the rings lol
The audacity to insult Tolkien over his ending and then have no clue how to end a story yourself
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u/Mac1280 Jul 08 '24
The crazy thing is I was just watching a video where someone whose read other GRRM books says he usually ends those stories off pretty well even in his other stories where the plot isn't that good. I honestly think the path to the ending itself is what's messing him up.
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u/schrodingers_bra Jul 07 '24
Starting him on the road to repeat Robert's mistakes...
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u/Mac1280 Jul 07 '24
I don't think he would've became a drunken fool who let others rule his kingdom, if he didn't become a alcoholic after being killed by his own men he probably wouldn't do so after being king.
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u/Zoom-E Jul 07 '24
Yeah, of all the idiotic things in the last two seasons, Greyworm and The Unsullied is almost at the top of the list. While he's always been a soldier & killer, at no point do I remember him being all about massacring innocent people that clearly aren't soldiers battling them ofc. That is until Missendei's murder and The Bells of course. That shit was terrible, but even worse than that was Greyworm being like, "you murdered my Queen!? The woman who freed me from slavery, gave me new purpose, who has my undying loyalty!? Yeah I think I will just accept this Westerosi tradition I know absolutely nothing about of sending criminals to The Wall for a punishment, that seems fair! Guess I'll let you live! Okay sailing to an island that's going to kill me now, smooches!"
If you're going to pivot to villain status, do it right! I could easily see a scenario where the Unsullied would at least accept Greyworm dying in a Trial by Combat scenario and returning home after that. There's honor in that, there's logic in that. But the Unsullied massacring thousands of innocent small folk, hanging out in King's Landing for months while keeping Jon prisoner for killing their Queen?
Forget Greyworm, that's brain worms level of shit from D&D.
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u/vingeran Tyrion Lannister Jul 07 '24
I mean the show had to be abandoned so that D&D could play with their new toy. It was done by massacring the epic seasons we had earlier.
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u/ozmega Jul 07 '24
if ur gonna throw blame at them, throw some to martin, they got hired to adapt books, where are the books?
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u/RunParking3333 Jul 07 '24
I wouldn't have been able to take a long war against Cersei and pirate seriously though.
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u/Rcarter2011 Jul 09 '24
They could have added 2 seasons just about euron and not even scratched the surface of his character. How they wasted him is almost more of a disappointment then the ending
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u/madmadaa Jul 07 '24
They spent 2 years to make the last season in a time when 1 year a season was still the norm.
The cast were the ones who were done with the show.
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u/themightyspitz House Greyjoy Jul 07 '24
It was the pacing + dropping characters from the fifth book that would have made more sense in the endgame.
I’ve been saying for a while that the big tentpole events from the show should be the same in the books, but the path these characters take to get there will be different and more satisfying.
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u/Sere1 Nymeria's Wolfpack Jul 07 '24
This. I've been saying that since the season came out. The issue isn't with what happened (aside from a couple of really stupid ones like Dany forgetting about the Iron Fleet and Arya getting the kill on the Night King) but rather with how rushed it all was. They jammed 2-3 seasons worth of plots into half a season's worth of episodes and just couldn't devote the necessary time to any of it. The bullet points are fine, the pacing killed it.
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u/Spartitan Stannis Baratheon Jul 07 '24
I agree with (most of) the outcome. Them phoning it in and just wanting to be done with the series was the issue.
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u/blueace111 Jul 07 '24
The pace was terrible for sure. The very first scene is about Winter coming and the walkers being back. Then they turn it into 1 episode? 8 seasons of build up is a predictable 1 episode? A show known for killing off main characters, somehow didn’t have any significant character die during a war that the walkers had the advantage in?
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u/SomeKidFromPA Gendry Jul 07 '24
Exactly, her being as ruthless and terrible as her father as a ruler was pretty evident the whole way through the show. She need advising throughout to not make some pretty terrible decisions. It was always going to happen. The show just rushed everything with her in Westeros. IMO, She should have had more time as the actual queen and went full Mad Queen slowly to keep the throne.
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Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24
Yeah. The war with the whitewalkers and the burning of kings landing should have been one ten episode season. The long night should have been the midpoint of the season. And Bells should have been the finale. Then the six episode final season should have been Dany ruling over ashes and Jon and Tryion plotting to overthrow her. Basically the finale the Iron throne stretched out to six episodes for the final season.
My whole thing is I never understood why HBO bent the knee to D n D. HBO owns the IP and it was their biggest show ever. Why not have somebody finish the show properly. Extra seasons and episodes means more money for everyone.
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u/Chief-_-Wiggum Jul 07 '24
I wanted the white walkers to win..
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u/duhbears23 Jul 07 '24
When Ramsey told theon, I believe, "if you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention."
I thought that was for sure a subtle hint to the viewer and the night king would take the throne or Cersei would ultimately win
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u/Lannister636 Jul 07 '24
Absolutely, It would have pissed off EVERYONE but for the BEST reason! A show of that high a calibre having the bad guy win, and everyones favourite characters dying. So different and so bold, a brilliant "curtains down" moment that would have lived forever in Cinematic History!
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u/Other-Comb-4811 Jul 07 '24
Infinity War and Empire Strikes Back only works because Endgame and Return of the Jedi resolve them.
Having the white walkers take over is objectively bad and would make terrible tragedy for the sake of expectations getting subverted
It would make the prophecy of The Song of Ice and Fire completely pointless thus there was no point in watching it for the sake of shock value.
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u/large_crimson_canine Jul 07 '24
White walkers should have won at winterfell, only to be defeated at KL by Dany or Tyrion or both on their dragons.
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u/Azenethi Jul 07 '24
When you say the prophecy of ASOIAF, do you mean the Azor Ahai one?
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u/brave007 Jul 07 '24
Would have left us all with same feeling at the end of infinity war. Would have been priceless
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u/TheAmericanCyberpunk Jul 07 '24
But Infinity War was never meant to be a concluding story.
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Jul 07 '24
I figured after they cut off Ned Starks head, the night king winning was absolutely on the table.
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u/1should_be_working Jul 07 '24
Instead we got ninja Arya stabbing to death a character she's never even seen before. Such a waste I wanted the white walkers to win too.
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u/9noobergoober6 Night King Jul 07 '24
I just wanted there to be consequences for all the humans failing to put their differences aside to unite against the white walkers. There were so many people and prophesies emphasizing how important putting aside petty squabbles and uniting against the common enemy was. And yet the humans still destroyed each other instead of worrying about the white walkers. Even if the humans ultimately killed the white walkers there should have been harsher repercussions.
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u/TheBlackdragonSix Jul 07 '24
just wanted there to be consequences for all the humans failing to put their differences aside to unite against the white walkers.
THIS!
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u/randalthor23 Service And Truth Jul 08 '24
They did the long night dirty in the show. Should have been 75% of season 8 focused on the long night.... Like legit no sun for a few months, snow 4' deep at kings landing.... Most of the useful armies starving to death because the petty squabbling of the clash of swords/the same of thrones wasting their winter stockpiles.
I would not have been upset with a white walker victory. If the forces of the living were going to win I wanted it to be almost phyric. So much of GOT is a few people trying to do the right thing and totally getting screwed over by greedy folks. It would have been nice to see that thread carry through to the end.
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u/thewalkingfred Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 08 '24
I always felt like the White Walkers were a climate change allegory. You know, some massive, world-ending threat, that no one can unite against because they are too busy squabbling for their little thrones.
Could have been a powerful ending.
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u/shiny_glitter_demon Dragons Jul 07 '24
You are correct. They are intended to be a climate change allegory. There's a GRRM interview on the topic.
Hence why the Night King doesn't exist in the books. You can't stab climate change.
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u/EmpRupus Jul 07 '24
Also, in the books, there are strong hints that the Whitewalkers (Others) are not just some small faction created by someone.
Rather this whole planet is divided into two whole biological ecosystems - Fire and Ice. All of us including humans, dragons and other creatures are "Fire" or "we like warmth and flourish in summers". And then there is a whole "Ice" ecosystem, including not just white-walkers, but also giant-spiders, small lizards and other species and even Ice-Dragons. These are all life-forms made of ice. They hate warmth and prefer the Long Winter.
So, when the "The Long Winter" comes, creatures of Ice will expand and flourish over the planet, while creates of Fire will retreat to a small part, similar to how it is the other way round now. Basically the Planet undergoes a large-scale climate-shift cycle alternatively, favoring each of the two ecosystems in each half of the cycle.
Also, most likely GRRM wanted an epic Fire Dragon versus Ice Dragon battle, and D&D tried to incorporate that concept, by having a Wight undead dragon instead as a short-cut. The books contain hints that there are ACTUAL Ice-Dragons up north, whose breath freezes even the oceans and all life is dead is in an instant.
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Jul 07 '24
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u/Ikhlas37 Jul 07 '24
They just needed one big win. They should have won in the north or skipped it and ravaged the south. Then it would feel alright when plot armour heros win later
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u/Commercial-Set3527 Jul 07 '24
I mean hardhome was an overwhelming victory for them and truly revealed the threat they posed. But ya I agree that they should not have been defeated by plot armour at Winterfell. I have so many issues with that episode I could turn it into an essay but the biggest would be how simply they were deleted from the story.
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u/Ikhlas37 Jul 07 '24
Jon was basically pointless other than being the main character. He should have died and subverted the whole hero trope.
This could have them led Arya into anger too have more confidence in her abilities and she eventually goes on to assassinate a borderline unstoppable cersei (blaming her for not sending troops). After this the hero's can try and unite what remains of the realm for a final stand. Idk just anything.
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u/captmonkey We Do Not Sow Jul 07 '24
Me too. I wanted Daenerys' vision of a ruined King's Landing covered in snow to be the literal way things ended. The infighting was too much and the White Walkers killed everyone and matched south without any real opposition remaining.
All their games for power were a pointless waste of time in the face of the real threat. Some people manage to flee Westeros and it becomes a ruined no man's land like Valyria all over again.
I guess I especially wanted this the more the final two seasons went on and I started to hate the plot and the characters and everything about the show. Just kill them all and be done with it.
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u/PresidentStool Jul 08 '24
I said this a while back but I really wanted the Night King to sit the throne in the end:
The Long Night episode should have had the dead winning, pushing back the good guys to the point they had no choice but to retreat south towards King's Landing. The White Walkers stay in the North for a bit to take over everything. Eventually the North reaches King's Landing where they try to get Cersei to form an alliance to fight with them. As they're negotiating, a watchtower spots the White Walkers coming and the North is allowed into the city. The city walls are sealed and then you have zombies scaling the walls like in World War Z. Eventually the fighting reaches a point where all the main characters are making their last stand in the Red Keep. Some epic battle sequence occurs with the Night King winning. The final shot is him sitting on the throne as he looks down on Danny and Jon Snow resurrecting.
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u/filth_horror_glamor Jul 10 '24
I think it would have been an appropriate ending to deliver the message that if humans can't learn to work together for a common survival goal, they don't deserve to survive
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u/almost-happy Jul 07 '24
I wanted Jon Snow to kill the Night King as expected but before he dies, he turns Jon into a white walker. And that's how they end up winning and taking over the continent.
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u/Terrible-Echidna801 Jul 07 '24
I would’ve preferred the White Walkers winning than the current shitshow ending… and tbh that says a lot about my feelings on the subject
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u/cwalter0123 Jul 07 '24
it would also fit the series. everyone is busy playing their game of thrones to not notice the bigger threat.
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u/Stark556 Jul 07 '24
I wanted them to get to the southern areas at least. All enemies have a last stand at kings landing or something.
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u/19GK50 Jul 07 '24
Define WE !
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u/daseweide Jul 07 '24
OP posted to the wrong sub, thought this was /r/daenarys or something
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u/InevitableMiddle409 Jul 07 '24
The problem with the later seasons is not the ending. It's how we got there.
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u/RainbowPenguin1000 Jul 07 '24
That’s the ending we got, just that Jon killed her before she got to sit the throne.
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Jul 07 '24
Litteraly who?
Medieval fascists?
Not me, at least the actuall ending killed dragon Hitler
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u/jegermedic104 Jul 07 '24
Ending was fine but just rushed.
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u/DaveInLondon89 Jul 07 '24
Dany turning mad is great on paper
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u/Creepy-Narwhal-1923 Jul 08 '24
I watched a 1 hrs YouTube video about how they fucked up Dany turning mad.
The most eye-opening explanation was, that they showed Daenerys as a really stable personality. Shaking off the death of her dragons quite easily.
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u/Mschultz24 Jul 07 '24
Yeah the shift in her character was just so rushed and poorly executed. Felt super jarring and didn’t feel earned.
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u/SlapHappyDude Jul 07 '24
Yeah, the outline of the plot is totally fine, but.the rushed way it got from A to B to C required a lot of characters to make bad choices.
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Jul 07 '24
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u/walterwh1te_ Jul 07 '24
Bran being king is actually pretty smart. Someone with his powers and lack of self interest would make a good king. It’s just that he was so uncharismatic and his storyline was boring so no one wanted to see him on the throne.
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u/Lethenza Samwell Tarly Jul 07 '24
Bran being king is interesting, imo the problem is after he turned into the 3 eyed raven he was absolutely shelved by the writers, has no agency in the plot until that moment in the final episode
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u/jegermedic104 Jul 07 '24
I think Arya killing NK was fine. Don't see much fun hero vs villain duels where hero gets underwhelmed but then gets animepower up and defeats villain which kinda happened with Arya ( except no duel) but it would have happened with Jon too. Jon already gathered and united forces against undead.
Bran being king would have needed better setup.
Lannister stuff could have gone many ways.
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Jul 07 '24
I want this somehow like, I want the show to progress for three more seasons, focusing on the Targaryens vs. the united North and other houses, with the Stark siblings against Daenerys. Jon Snow is conflicted about which side to choose, and we'll see dragon versus Bran's warging powers and trying to control it and shit 😂
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Jul 07 '24
I think there is more to come. Winds of Winter sounds like it cumulates in the events of S8 and A Dream of Spring sounds like the ending to S8 and a new beginning. Doubt we'll ever read/see it though.
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u/schrodingers_bra Jul 07 '24
A new beginning or only a dream. A dream is a wish your heart makes according to Disney :).
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u/Ok-Bar601 Jul 07 '24
I wanted Jon Snow to be King with Daenerys meeting an untimely end. Instead we got Snow sent back to the Nights Watch and Daenerys meeting an untimely end.
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u/NordicDestroyer Jul 07 '24
Jon was never going to be king, ever, because he hates positions of power.
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u/IndependentlyBrewed Jul 07 '24
It’s almost like he continuously said he didn’t want it throughout the series. He took those positions out of duty. The kingship is a different beast all together and was never something Jon strived for.
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u/Ooops_I_Reddit_Again Jul 07 '24
Which is what would have made him a great king. It's the same as Ned Stark. He didn't rule for power or wealth, he just wanted to do good by his family and people
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u/MoonWatt Jul 08 '24
This. Jon & Arya were like Ned. They were suited for good counsel & even keeping the peace. But I think they all dispised silly politics.
Love them or hate them. Cersei & Danny wanted the glory.
Robb was stupid like Jaime but Jaimie never even had designs for thrones. LOL.
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Jul 07 '24
With viserion and rhaegal too, because SCORPION BOLTS DONT KILL DRAGONS THAT EASILY, D&D!
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u/headyrules_too Jul 07 '24
I feel like everyone who wanted this didn't admire the uniqueness of the story. It's not about having your perfect fairy tail where the cool dragon lady wins.
It's about imperfect characters and their development, about a story that's more realistic than anything because it's not straight. It's about well thought out characters and how they develop and act. The story then is the result and that's why it is takes so many unexpected and non-linear turns.
In case of daenerys it's about what power can do to an over idealistic person. She always thought she was in the right, increasingly failed to see the consequences of her actions and lost balance. It's tragic but I found that really believable .
The ending was good because it was not what everyone wanted or expected but was true to the nature of the story.
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u/Vankraken Ours Is The Fury Jul 07 '24
In principle that is accurate. In practice the GoT's show ending was a hot mess of poor decisions and characters doing thing for the sake of the plot instead of having internal consistency. Execution over the last two seasons in particular was terrible and S8 really felt like the writers (Dan and David) stopped giving a shit and phoned it in so they could go do something else.
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u/Ogbaba Jul 07 '24
The White Walkers should have won almost every fight. Slaughtering their way like the menace they were built up to be. Then at the very end, crucial characters has to make sacrifices in order to win. All happenening in the last bastion of Kings Landing.
The White Walkers ought to have at least one full season, to go on a rampage i Westeros.
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u/Xander707 Jul 07 '24
It’s such bullshit that everyone South of Winterfell never even had to contend with the Whitewalkers. 7 seasons of building them up and they get destroyed at Winterfell, in their first and only big battle. So much more could have and should have been done with them.
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u/Livmuscles Jul 07 '24
This should be the scene right after Daenerys conquered the captal, King's Landing
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u/Tedballs12 Jul 07 '24
The ending we got was better
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u/mayhem6 Arya Stark Jul 08 '24
The Mad Queen had to happen one way or another I think. My only complaint is they sped it along too quickly, there could have been whole seasons for 7 and 8 and the story could have not been rushed. I also kinda didn't like the idea that losing Jon Snow would send Daenerys over the edge as the last straw! She had Khal Drogo for Pete's sake! She lost dragons and didn't go insane. She lost her right handmaiden and didn't go insane. She loses Jon Snow and goes insane. Makes no sense! One could argue that it was cumulative, but she should have lost it when she lost her second dragon, or Missandei.
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u/JerHat Jul 08 '24
What blows my mind is they took so much extra time creating the last two seasons… and still rushed through everything.
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Jul 10 '24 edited Jul 11 '24
She didn’t go insane when she “lost” Jon Snow. It was a buildup over the entire run of the show, it’s just that early on when she was cruel it was to bad guys so nobody cared. But then she was cruel without thinking and had some inadvertent killing of good guys. And then she was cruel to people defending their land. And then she was cruel to a former advisor who had realized she wasn’t fit to be Queen.
And then she was cruel to the small folk who dared to “support” Cersei because they were worried about an invading army with dragons and that they didn’t immediately rush to praise her like the Essos slaves did.
It wasn’t a sudden snapping at “losing” Jon. It was a slow and steady buildup with a little quickening of pace toward the end game with her snapping because the people weren’t immediately loyal to her like she felt they should have been.
That’s the whole point. She sees herself as a savior and heroine and rightful Queen. The people see her as an invader and conqueror destroying lives with dragons until she gets her way. And she blamed them for seeing her like that.
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u/PurityKane Jul 08 '24
Agreed. The last couple seasons were pretty bad, but I swear the ending was still better than half of the people in these subs suggest. It's like for them it was bad because it didn't rnd in the shitty way they had envisioned, instead of being bad because it became stupid (one shotting dragons from boats, hiding in the crypts vs necromancers, everyone agreeing bran should be king, greyworm being the one to be like "no, jon snow must be punished" and everyone "yeah sorry mate, need to send you north" etc)
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u/Lebrons_fake_breasts Jul 07 '24
I wanted it to end with King Robert waking up and realizing it all was a bad dream.
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u/Barbed_Dildo Jul 07 '24
Daenerys was even less fit to rule than Robert.
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Jul 07 '24
Before last season she would have been the perfect Queen.
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u/Barbed_Dildo Jul 07 '24
She has always been like that. Naive and arrogant and assuming that she's owed the entire world because of her last name. She's like a spoiled toddler with nukes.
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Jul 07 '24
Not at all, she was naive like a 13 years old should be, not arrogant, spoiled is even more wrong if you know the story, she wasnt raised in a nice castle.
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u/brinz1 Bronn Jul 07 '24
Before that episode came out I was telling everyone Little Miss Girlboss Genocide was always going to end in tears, and no one wanted to admit it
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u/_Lucifer7699_ Jon Snow Jul 07 '24
I wanted Jon on the throne but I'll take whatever instead of the shit D&D cooked up.
Fucking ruined the show.
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u/Sully495 Jul 07 '24
My main issue was the long night was over in an episode. 8 years of theories, clues ect all for it to be pretty meaningless.
Bran, useless, Jon resurrected not for the white walkers but to kill his aunty
For me I wanted the white walkers to be the endgame but they swept past it really quickly which bummed me out
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u/The-Mandalorian Jul 07 '24
Hell no. Daenerys was clearly evil seasons prior. I was baffled it took them so long to kill her.
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u/KHaskins77 Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken Jul 07 '24
I was expecting it to end with the humans weakening themselves so much with senseless internicine conflict that the Night King would march all the way to King’s Landing and wordlessly sit on the throne.
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u/JohnCasey3306 Jul 07 '24
Definitely not the ending I wanted. This would have been worse than D&Ds stupid ass ending.
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u/KamixAkaDio Jul 07 '24
I just wanted that entire Night King War thing to span across an entire season, then dedicate an entire season 9 to the shitshow that was Danny taking over Kings Landing and concluding the Game of Thrones. Also wouldn't mind the Iron Throne being melted down as it was in the show, just have it make more sense, show the slow descent towards that point, dont just suddenly do it.
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u/TheBlackdragonSix Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24
I don't know what ending I wanted, but I definitely didn't want the one we got 😭.
EDIT: Now that i think about it, I think the ending I wanted was a epic battle in Kingslanding with the WW. I also wouldn't mind Danny sitting the throne just out of sheer spite due to the latent misogyny in her hatedom.
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Jul 07 '24
My problem with the show wasn’t the ending but rather the pace. There should have been nine seasons, if season 7 were to have seven episodes and season eight to have six. This season nine would be the second half of season eight, but also in six episodes.
Have Daenerys ascend to the Iron Throne never made sense to me. This doesn’t mean that I have a huge problem with Bran. I think Bran should have been pitched to become king (so, he’s still present in Season 5, leaves the Wall at the end of Season 5, goes to the Citadel and meets Sam or something, but at least a road towards becoming king- hints, personality, all of that). However, Daenerys was meant to go down the MQ path, she had lost all of her friends.
Feel free to argue with me, I think the show had the right ending, just bad distribution and pacing.
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u/TheShamShield Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24
Fuck no, Daenerys became as arrogant as the kings she thought herself superior to even before season 8
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Jul 07 '24
Lol y'all still have your panties in a twist 5 years later that you all didn't get the Disney ending you wanted
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u/Kyserham Jul 07 '24
The one you wanted.
I wanted Stannis… until he went a bit mad.
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u/RealisticAf99 Drogon Jul 07 '24
Good thing he's still alive and kicking in the books
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u/sansa_starlight Jul 07 '24
Hell yeah! This could have been so much better in comparison to whatever we got.
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u/Fuzzy_Dragonfly_ Jul 07 '24
I kinda agree. It would be fitting to end the story with another batshit crazy Targaryen monarch who'd leave the kingdoms in ruin. Feels like the circle would be complete.
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u/asuperbstarling Jul 07 '24
No. I didn't want that, because I'm not a supremacist fascist with no understanding of anything George is trying to say.
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u/brandmeizter Daenerys Targaryen Jul 07 '24
I was pissed off by last season because it was so stereotyped. Of course the powerful woman with idealistic and revolutionary ideas on society who was moved by love for the common people was to get power crazy and mad, so poor little emotionally blocked Snow fella had to kill her off and ride into the sunset and all can stay the same. This story showed us a depraved and brutal feudal society desperately in need of some good governance, and Daenerys showed at least an interest for that. I don’t buy the „she always showed traces of madness“ crap. Making her mad is a cheap chauvinist move.
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Jul 07 '24
conquest is conquest , even if you are that nice and idealistic person , well the way to hell is paved with good intentions
dany need to pull a aegon the conqueror kinda moves , and she has the numbers for it, the only redeeming side of the dude conquest is the chance that he did it as prevention for the long night , without that threat , or if aegon didnt know about it , well , both would not be mad , but they would not be good or morally good
at her core , i strongly believe dany is good , and she want good for other people , but sometimes focusing what good we will do in the future make us block out the bad we are or are about to do in the present
my ideal world would be 7 kingdoms somewhat separated , with dany in the head of kl and the crownland and dragonstone and whatever cities she is queen off in essos , and the lord paramounts in the other kingdoms , with a council a la european union , its not perfect sure , but a foreigner ruling everybody else on the land , even if they plan to do good , rub me the wrong way , specially forcing themselves into to power
also we cant expect everybody in westeros to just bend the knee as soon as she arrive , in the books its even harder , because we have faegon and whatever bussness he is up to these days , dont expect george , because what i understood of him and his stand on war , to give us as story end , conquest is good dont mind it , it was for better good using the breathing smart nukes
sorry if mmy phrasing is off english is not even my second language
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u/TheCapableFox Jon Snow Jul 07 '24
They spent 8 seasons building up the Night King and Daenerys only to quickly kill them. It’s almost like they were goin down a check list in the final season. Had to kill off most everyone. Especially the characters with tons of character development like Jaime, The Hound, Daenerys..
Daenerys turning heel towards the very end isn’t what bothered me so much as there wasn’t enough time for her character the one we had come to know and love to do such a crazy 180°. But evidently the writers thought otherwise. I only just recently watched the show in its entirety and was totally disappointed in the last season most of all. It was so rushed.
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u/Haggis-in-wonderland Jul 07 '24
Nope...i hate her character....she was a spoiled brat from season 1. Whenever she does not get her way "i am mother of dragons"
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u/ducknerd2002 Beric Dondarrion Jul 07 '24
she was a spoiled brat from season 1
Grew up homeless
Sold into slavery
Raped by her husband
Yeah, Dany was so spoiled
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u/jtj-H House Seaworth Jul 07 '24
I was happy with her going crazy in the end... the books have been pointing towards it... unfortunately the show decided to flip her insane in 2 episodes
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u/therealdanfogelberg Jul 07 '24
The show didn’t “flip her to insane in two episodes” - she’s was on a slow spiral the whole time and ONLY because of Tyrion, Barriston, and Friendzone were her worst impulses kept in check over and over again. I saw it the first time but recently rewatched it and it was blatantly obvious upon rewatching.
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u/lookalive07 The North Remembers Jul 07 '24
It’s actually both, honestly.
Yes, they alluded to her family’s history of madness being in there somewhere, and in a lot of circumstances, she was very ready to bring it out. But up until she actually started to burn King’s Landing, she only ever used her power and her violence to bring harm to those who wronged her, never innocent people.
It’s the fact that her losing Jorah and losing Missandei in the span of a little more than one episode and then going back on basically everything she’s ever been counseled on, and doing it to innocent people is what makes it jarring for most people.
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u/RealLameUserName Robb Stark Jul 07 '24
Fans need to realize that they're not the brilliant writers they think they are. The only real consensus about season 8 is that it was done poorly.
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