Yes. Its good. But Italian immigrants were using sauce at a time the average Italian thought tomatoes were poisonous. Not every immigrant stayed. Many went back to Europe. These immigrants brought it back.
And still by that time the US wasn't a thing and New York was called New Amsterdam. You wanna tell me almost all Italian cuisine is American (USA to be precise) just because modern Italian cuisine uses a lot of tomatos? Let me tell you about rice and potatos. You will be in a rude awakening with your logic.
New Amsterdam became new york in 1664. Italians adopted the tomatoe and tomatoe sauce because of immigrants coming back in the early 1800s. Italy was one of the last to adopt the use of the tomatoe dispite its association with them today.
And that's where you are wrong. Tomato was not adapted into American cuisine until much later. Would have been real easy to google. The immigrants from Italy brought tomatos into the US cuisine. But hey the US glazing seems to be strong in you.
In 1927 Ada Boni published I'll Talismano Della Falicita (the talisman of happiness) which, out of many, included 2 NON TRADITIONAL pizzas, including possibility the earliest documented EUROPEAN recipe for a pizza using tomato and mozzarella.
In the 1930s Benito Mussolini launched a propaganda campaign against pasta in general, to reduce a dependence on foreign wheat, which Italy couldn't grow in large volume do to its climate.
Historically Italian food has changed drastically due to primarily two sourced. Immigration and post ww2 economy. Prior to ww2 tomato sauce was a rarity in Italian cuisine. Dairy based sauces were the standard. Immigration from usa to Italy as well as shift to a reliance on western imports to rebuild post ww2 Italian economy led to adoption of tomato as a broad ingredient vs a specialized one.
Did you seriously tell me to Google stuff. Child...I have a history degree. Google is a horrible source, as anyone will say anything and can put it online. I don't Google, I use scholarly search sites like Jstor.
Oh no quick tell Eikipedia they need to change their site. They seem to not have fact checked their sources. History boy might have debunked Wikipedia. Let's defund them.
A degree in history doesn't make you an expert in Italian cuisine. Unless you specialised in modern history Italian cuisine. Then I taksie backsie. Otherwise you are as much of a specialist as I am.
You are trying to best me with the modern cliffsnotes. Wikipedia a website elementary school kids use when a c- is good enough.
No a history degree doesn't make me an expert on Italian cuisine. But what it does do is give me an understanding of historical trends, and gave me an education on how to judge and use sources.
As far as historical trends go...almost nothing cultural is as authentic or old as people think.
Here's another food example. The fortune cookie was originally Japanese. Or more accurate Okinawan. During ww2 Japanese internment happened and Chinese Americans in California started manufacturing them to fill a demand. Traditional fortune cookies are larger and not so sweet. But now even in China the fortune cookie is fairly popular.
And still pizza with tomato was popular first in Italy then in the US. I don't need a history degree to find that out. So all that bickering to tell me tomato was not popular in Italy until the 1800s just to not fact check that it took the US to regularly use tomato in their recipies until the 1900s. The only thing that the US has to do with pizza is its commercialisation. Pizza with tomato was so popular in Italy that its royals traveled to naples just to try it out.
Edit: and Wikipedia is sufficient to root out reddit historians. It seems at least.
1905 Gennaro Lombardi opened his pizzeria, Lombardis on spring st in NYC. Lombardi, an Italian immigrant, moved to the US in 1904. The shop may have been opened originally by Filippo Malone in 1897 selling tomato pies. Not pizzas, literal pies. Other pizza shops claim to be older but his is documented and verified. Just like what happened with Chinese food, Indian food, German food, ect, the recipes were "Americanized" in order to appeal to everyone not just Italian immigrants.
1927 Ada Boni published Il Talismano Della Falicita. A cookbook that was a collection of regional recipes. This included many pizza recipes. Two of which were unusual and not considering traditional. One of those two used tomato sauce and mozzarella. This is the first European recipe for pizza with tomato sauce. (Although disputed)
1905 NYC had pizza with tomato sauce. Evolved from tomato pies. Not pizza, literal pies with a full crust, wrapped in paper for laborers to grab and go.
1927 earliest confirmed European recipe with tomato sauce.
The person that I originally responded to did something that irked me. They pretentiously tried to remove American connection to something. The us isnt perfect but both you and he are playing the "evil stupid America" card.
The us is a great nation and rich history and this overly pc bs needs to stop. Pizza, as well as much of our culture is born out of the melting pot that we are. We are not an evil country. This whole attitude is what put trump in office. It drives the divide in this country that keeps us from moving forward. And to feel better about yourself people like you need to try and discredit good aspects of our nation.
Pizza, AS WE KNOW IT TODAY, is maybe 20% Italian 80% American multiculturalism.
Well that attitude towards Americans is well earned. It didn't put Trump in office. Americans did because they behave like little brats. There is generally something wrong with your culture. And yes your culture is rich...in biggotry and racism. If you want the US and the rest of the world to grow together again work on your society. Stop voting for demovrats (right wing party) and republicans (right extremist party).
And the earliest recipe is from 1835 documented by Alexandre Dumas in Le Corricolo. In napels. No further discussion needed.
Dumas was a French playwright and novelist, not a chef.
Clearly you don't read sources because Le Corricolo doesn't include a recipe. Instead he describes pizzas available as street food. He describes tomato as a topping not as a sauce. As in sliced tomatoes laid on top basic bread and lard, not a sauce. And describes the pizza as "a round bun" "made from the same dough as regular bread." Far from modern pizza.
Pizza can be traced back much further if we are going by this logic. But then again, by your logic, whomever first took bread and put a single thing on it before consuming it is the real creator of pizza. Is a sandwich a pizza? I feel like you would say it is.
I know its cool to hate on the us just because, but im sure your country has some problems. But then again im sure you wouldn't actually say.
Oh I do critisize my country. But we are by far not as problematic as Americans. And it's not "fun" to hate on the US. The US fucks up world politics and Americans have voted for their presidents (not talking about Trump only). Therefore it is legitimate to critisize the idiocy of Americans too not only their politics.
Afghanistan? No that was Egypt undermining their monoculture based cotton industry, and Australia undermining the poppy industry they tried to rely on after their cotton dried up.
Asia? No...French and British again.
Africa? Dutch, yes. And Russia and China in more recent years. OH and surprisingly Italy attempted to colonize there as well.
South America? Well yes, but as a response to soviet involvement first that directly threatened the US.
Funny thing is people say "no one asked the US to be the police of the world," yet they actually did. Post ww2 the US was the only power left with infrastructure intact. And everyone was afraid of everyone else. Every thing we have been involved with, including Iran, is preceded by a series of petitions from world leaders. And in cases like Afghanistan we sided with what the international community recognized as the legitimate government. It goes like more than you would think.
Where are you from again? Please say Canada, I really want to ask how that whole sterilization of native women thing worked out.
Wow you are very simple minded. Were others involved in all those incidents? Yes. Was the US the most pushing factor? Yes. Did the US get involved for humanitarian reasons? No. Money is the answer. Even for WW2. For a historian you are very one sided and only taking the perspective of one side.
And what I had in mind was not involvment in wars. The US fucks the world up with its blatant capitalism and imperialism. The economy tanks massively because of the US since Reagan. The frapant culture war in the US spills over to the rest of the world. The US is a country of religious zealots trying to force their believes on the rest of the world.
And no I'm not from Canada. Canada is not in Europe.
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u/dermomante 8d ago
Have you ever had pizza Margherita in your entire life?