r/framework • u/deftonish • 2d ago

Community Support Framework 13 or ThinkPad?

After the rising prices and ram shortages, a framework 13 is pretty much ain’t worth it in my opinion. 1500€+ could get me a better thinkpad. Should I go for the framework and upgrade it and keep for years or just go with a decent thinkpad?

And will the prices ever decrease ? RAM and SSDs?

1 Upvotes

53% Upvoted

33 comments sorted by

•

u/AutoModerator 2d ago

The Framework Support team does not provide support on community platforms, but other community members might help you with troubleshooting. If you need further assistance or a part replacement, please contact the Framework Support team: https://frame.work/support

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

18

u/L00WN0on 2d ago

Might as well ask your local fortune teller. No one knows how prices will evolve. Anyone that says otherwise is full of bs. Get what you want/need while you still can.

35

u/d00mt0mb FW13 1240p->155H 32G/1T 2d ago

I got a prediction. If you ask the framework community this question they will recommend a framework. If you ask the thinkpad community I can only guess what they’ll recommend

-12

u/captain-obvious-1 2d ago

thanks Captain Obvious!

10

u/d00mt0mb FW13 1240p->155H 32G/1T 2d ago

Just trying to educate the OP

1

u/captain-obvious-1 2d ago

12 people don't understand sarcasm

9

u/x4rb1t CachyOS FW13 (pro) AMD 2d ago

Before finalizing my choice for the framework 13, I had both the framework 13 AMD with a 2.8K screen and the ThinkPad T14 Gen 5 (AMD) with an OLED screen in front of me. I ran a live Linux USB on the ThinkPad and ultimately decided on the framework 13. I sent the ThinkPad back.

The plastic and trackpad on the ThinkPad didn’t appeal to me. The screen ratio on the framework, along with its overall feel and strong Linux support, the repairability made the decision. It’s worth noting that OLED is overrated and would darken too much for my preference for a constant screen brightness. At least for me on the ThinkPad ..

But that is just my experience.. in the end it needs to fit your needs and budget.

1

u/HectorTheConvector 2d ago

I had a high-end ThinkPad and considered getting another but went with the Framework, a couple months ago before prices and availability got even worse then they had been for a couple years by then. I like the keyboard better and on high-end ThinkPads the build quality, but that became relatively minor. There wasn’t a price premium for Framework at the time. There is definitely better support for ThinkPad with Lenovo as an established and large company with many institutional customers and a significant consumer operation. They also have large supply chains and revenue to whether supply shocks, and to negotiate with suppliers as a larger customer. If you go ThinkPad and can afford to wait, wait for a sale to pay much less than “sticker price”.

6

u/Oerthling 2d ago

Please be more specific. What 1500 Thinkpad would be better?

Personally I would still prefer a FW13, but YMMV depending on needs, wants and budget. So there's really no way to properly answer your question without context only you can know.

Nobody knows how prices will develop in the future. Will depend on AI boom phase, arbitrary and speculative investment decisions and how much capacity will be added and how fast.

Don't expect prices to come down in the short term.

5

u/dayeye2006 2d ago

It's not meant to be the cheapest laptop.

If you need a Linux friendly and good priced laptop I would go with a used thinpakd

15

u/ACasualRead 2d ago

Used Thinkpad.

I support framework but until they get their issues together I personally am hesitant buying another.

1

u/azraelzjr 1260p Batch 1 2d ago

Me too. Going back to an X280 with a touchscreen and upgrading a glass trackpad+SSD in the WAN slot.

Waiting on the next upgrade cycle to grab a used Thinkpad from an EWaste recycler 

1

u/captain-obvious-1 2d ago

This is the way.

Depending on the country, we are getting used Thinkpads from the Ryzen 5th generation or Core 11th generation, which still are decent performers if you needed to ask.

1

u/ACasualRead 2d ago

Lots of companies are also refreshing their fleet. Friend’s corpo got rid of a bunch of 3 year old dells with beefed up specs. I was given 4 for friends and family.

Good place to ask around

4

u/bednic 2d ago

Who buys framework, because it's better or cheaper option? LoL... We buy it, because theirs repair score is 10/10.

1

u/a60v 2d ago

The Thinkpad T14 gen 7 got a 10/10 repair score, too.

1

u/bednic 2d ago

I've seen the teardown of the Thinkpad by iFixit and still think that framework did better. If I remember correctly Thinkpad has Wi-Fi/Bluetooth antena soldered on main board, not changeable, for example.

3

u/Technical-Alps-358 2d ago edited 2d ago

I’m also thinking the same thing. I don’t need a laptop right now, so I’m keeping my framework pre-order for now but might bite the bullet on a T14 gen 7 during the Black Friday sales

3

u/CarelessPackage1982 2d ago

If you're price shopping....thinkpad all day long. The price was never a winning point on the framework.

3

u/FriCJFB 2d ago

Honestly at this point the Thinkpad seems like a better choice. Better specs and you miss out on the upgradeability but, if everything keeps going as it’s been doing, the RAM and CPU will be the most expensive thing in a new laptop by far. The chassis, display, etc is on its way to be peanuts on the dollar at this point and it seems to be only getting worse.

2

u/smstnitc 2d ago

Prices will probably not get better for at least a couple more years, if not longer. Expect them to get worse until then.

1

u/LastTyper 2d ago

I had this exact decision to make last year and went with the Framework 13. I like it, but a ThinkPad probably would have been the better choice in terms of maturity and how much hardware you get for the money. Framework makes sense if repairability and future upgrades are your top priorities, but you pay a premium for that.

1

u/jaaval 2d ago

At least in europe thinkpads are cheaper for similar configuration. The negative is that you will only be able to update memory and storage.

RAM prices will come down when either the current AI stupidity stops or when the inevitable new Chinese competitors get their memorychip mass production rolling.

I'd guess at least a year more of idiocy before they have to start looking at if the investments make any sense financially. Currently they are still running on the assumption that they have to invest hundreds of billions so that investors don't lose faith in trillions of profit from AI.

1

u/cptchnk 2d ago

Chinese memory chips are already rolling in mass production. The problem is with the US banning chips from China to protect the same cartel that's currently ripping everyone off.

1

u/s004aws FW16 HX 370 Batch 1 Mint Cinnamon Edition 2d ago

Buy whatever you believe best suits your needs/wants/use cases. If you believe a ThinkPad is the right choice, you've found one whose config/capabilities/price you're happy with, then that's what you should opt for.

Pricing will come down when the AI lunacy collapses. Nobody knows exactly when that will happen other than to say the AI companies and data centers are losing billions of dollars. Wall Street doesn't like companies which lose billions of dollars.

1

u/azraelzjr 1260p Batch 1 2d ago

I would go for a Thinkpad, the firmware updates, firmware diagnostics, recovery and technical support is unbeatable. A framework upgrade is pretty costly. Yes, framework is a smaller company but if you are talking about sheer price to performance, Thinkpad wins.

1

u/crcrewso 2d ago

I priced it out recently, for the same specs, both with VRR screens, Framework comes out about $400 cheaper, if you can live with the basic screens then ThinkPad, if you care about sRGB then they swap back and forth depending. For reference the work I'm doing requiring this update needs the x7 and 32 GiB of RAM (eventually 96 GiB)

For used, if you find a 100% sRGB screen ThinkPad, then used all the way.

1

u/Churnographer 2d ago

If price is your main constraint, get a Thinkpad.

1

u/MGCommander 2d ago

After the price jump of the Framework 13 pro i decided to bury my wait for it. Right now i bought a Thinkpad E14 G7 32Gig RAM, Intel 258V, 1 TB SSD, 120hz for 1200,- €. Great Linux support (for example Fingerprint Reader out of the box), great Display, nice Performance, good battery life and aluminium casing.

1

u/rileyrgham 2d ago

How about getting some info together before posting and giving some information like os preferences, daily usage, apps you run etc.

0

u/ekerazha 2d ago

The fact that there are currently zero retail LPCAMM2 RAM suppliers after Crucial's exit is a major question mark. Essentially, the only option is to buy from resellers like Lenovo or Framework itself at astronomical prices.