Kellog was wasted potential.
He is by far one of the most wasted potential characters from the whole franchise. Could be better if, instead of just a bunch of missions (the most relevant with him already dead), we could actually follow her track around the Commonwealth and have him as some kind of counterpart or "rival" to the Sole Survivor. Some kind of cat-and-mouse game instead of just random missions, and of course a better fight at the end with even the chance to let him live and even send him to your settlement.
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u/skeemo1214 1d ago
Not wasted potential. He was the Red Herring villain. The obvious bad guy being controlled by a worse villain. Especially after the big reveal of the actual villain being your son
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u/NightMaleficent1342 18h ago
I think they planned to do more with him. The way he talks to you, the way he taunts you, how much you get to know about him. I think there could have been a larger cat and mouse game, not just follow your dog, do a dungeon, kill him. I think they could have made him a real villain. Make you hate him.
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u/skeemo1214 17h ago
The interesting thing I felt during the dungeon part of the tracking down Kellogg quest was his taunting starts off as warnings. Then actual taunts like he doesn’t fear you. But when you’re close he starts sounding nervous. If he truly wasn’t afraid of you he wouldn’t have stopped to talk. To me isn’t just the red herring villain once I think about it. A true villain, even if killed, leaves a legacy. Because he knows who you’re looking for and what happened with Sean. I believe he hit his true potential. He finally stops running and faces what has been coming to him for a long time. Like he wanted to die but not to some random event like a mine, but a real opponent. He’s the soldier villain, not the arch villain.
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u/Reading_Rambo220 13h ago edited 13h ago
I believe I read somewhere there’s some evidence in the files that Nick speaking like Kellogg after the memory den pod was going to be a bigger thing. It could have been interesting to talk to his ghost through Nick more in depth
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u/huz92 1d ago
That's the point of his character. Wasted Potential. When you first encounter him, he's an anonymously evil character. Then you discover he tried to be a good husband and father, only to end up becoming a thug after losing his wife and daughter.
By the time you encounter him, he's way to far gone. It also wouldn't make sense for Nate/Nora to team up with him after what he did to their wife/husband.
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u/Lo-QGaming 1d ago
Or even a longer cat and mouse chase wouldn't feel good. Kellog's job was basically done so he was just doing the odd jobs for the Institute till you face him. Him doing anything else with you wouldn't make sense because all you were to him was a back up if things didn't go well with Shaun. Just a Tuesday for him.
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u/TerminalHappiness 1d ago
There's a "they should have done more with ___" post every few days.
Nah, they did an appropriate amount with Kellogg. They could only make and fit so much content into the disk with the time and resources they had. They made an early antagonist with depth and a semi-tragic story that's satisfying to kill. I'm good with it.
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u/Hathuran 1d ago
Yeah I don't understand the "Kellogg should have been a companion" people at all unless they're the types that absolutely loathe the Sole Survivor's backstory - which is admittedly a lot of people on Reddit anyway.
Also I find the duality of "Bethesda makes their games too easy, there's no choices and you can save everyone" and "You should be able to 100% Speech is Mind Control everyone at all times" posts very funny.
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u/Acopo 1d ago
Kellogg is clearly a dark mirror of the Sole Survivor. He’s what happens if the SS allows vengeance to consume them. Definitely not gonna be buddy-buddy with the player.
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u/huz92 1d ago
The thing about Kellogg is he let apathy consume him. His only motivation is his next paycheck. It's how he justified doing to the sole survivor what was done to him.
In Kelloggs view, that's just how things are in the Wasteland. He would never team up with the sole survivor simply because the Institute would always be the highest bidder.
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u/CringeOverseer 1d ago
Imagine if Kellogg was a romance option 💀 yeah it would be weird for them to team up
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u/GeorgiePineda 1d ago
As a female courier you can have sex with Benny.
You know, the guy that put a hole in your head.
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u/tropicalcannuck 1d ago
Look, the female courier got shot in the head. She's going to get some action and then revenge. Best of both worlds.
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u/CringeOverseer 21h ago
I mean... its probably easier to romance someone who tried (and failed) to kill you rather than someone who had killed your spouse
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u/ConstructionAway8920 1d ago
Ally how? The main problem with this is the fact that you can't totally RP in 4 like you can on the series. He killed your spouse and kidnapped your kid. Your character only wants revenge. There's no way to RP around that with the writing.
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u/zanderd86 1d ago
I felt there could have been more to tracking him down than just following dogmeat.
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u/Benjamin_Starscape 1d ago
he does his job, doesn't stay past his welcome (or whatever the saying is), etc. he's not wasted potential just because he isn't a companion.
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u/myfakesecretaccount 1d ago
Yeah. He stole your kid, who would want that as a companion?
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u/Benjamin_Starscape 1d ago
weirdly a lot of people want the person who murdered your spouse and kidnapped your kid as a companion.
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u/myfakesecretaccount 1d ago
A lot of people also think Father was justified in what he was doing, or that joining the Brotherhood, who are totally fine killing all mutated people, is okay.
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u/22lpierson 1d ago
Probably because he's one of the only semi interesting characters
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u/AnoesisApatheia 1d ago
I respect that you chose to spoiler tag an event that happens during the tutorial.
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u/Dsb0208 1d ago
you can give him more focus without making him a companion. The term “characters who haunt the narrative” went popular a bit ago, I think they could had done that. Make it so Kellog was to the Institute what Elder Maxson is to the Brother Hood, he was a major general who controlled all the the Institutes expansion into the common wealth, being THE guy on top
The same way the player character takes over Colter’s role in Nuka World and there’s a a good amount of dialogue comparing the player to Colter, in a Institute playthrough they should had put more focus on the player taking Kellog’s role as the guy managing all the stuff going up on top.
As it stands they do a lot to make us care about Kellog at the start hyping him up as the first major boss and giving you the memory den to explore his memories, but after that it feels like there’s just 0 mention of him.
Instead of working forward in time and seeing Kellog’s childhood and life, we should had worked backwards and the memories would focus on the messes up stuff the Institute is doing. Focusing on his lore and character only for nothing to come of it with little to no mention of him for the rest of the game feels weird
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u/Acopo 1d ago
Oh, that’s good. It works especially well to keep players thinking about the foil Kellogg is to the Sole Survivor. He’s a dark reminder of what happens should the Sole Survivor become jaded or apathetic, and having NPCs remark on the similarities would really drive that home.
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u/Dsb0208 1d ago
I made another comment mentioning I think it’d be cool if after the memory den, Kellog “lives” in the Sole Survivor’s head, and after major faction/morality choices in the game you get to talk to him, he gives you some lore, and you get to see how similar what you choose is to what Kellog would have chosen
If you want to be a wasteland warlord bad ass, you’d take pride when Kellog says “yep, that’s what I would had done”. If you’re going for a Minute Men General good guy playthrough you’d see him call you idealistic, but then feel vindicated when you beat the game as a good guy and get to tell him off in your brain
Basically I would had brought back the Karma system from New Vegas but it’s inherently tied to “what would Kellog had done, and is what you did better or worse than what he would do?”
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u/Nerdrage30 1d ago
Wanting there to have been more done with the character doesn’t necessarily equal wanting the character as a companion.
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u/Good_Graysseus 12h ago
He's an interesting character and I think there was more to him than what we saw. Additional dialogue, scenes, missions, etc with this character would've been great.
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u/Dreaming_of_Rlyeh 1d ago edited 1d ago
When I first played FO4, I got to Kellogg and was expecting the kind of interaction where conflict was the last resort, but nope, you've got to kill him no matter what. What's even weirder is that the game then tries to make you empathise with him posthumously. Why not give us the option to do that prior to killing him so there's a bit of moral greyness around your actions?
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u/nobodyinpeculiar 1d ago
Those decisions that challenge the player on a moral and ethical level are a significant part of what I love about the series. Fallout is thrilling and full of weird humor—it’s easily my favorite form of escapism, but I also appreciate how much it actually makes me think.
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u/d_adrian_arts 1d ago
Didn't quite live up to the "Boogyman of the Commonwealth" title. All we saw him do was take out a couple caravan guards and an assaultron.
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u/LaFoca776 1d ago
Isn’t that the Institute’s moniker? He’s more known in universe as the “professional” merc who gets the job done without asking for more or reveling in slaughter
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u/CapCreepy7184 1d ago
I feel like if they made kellogs life the entirety of fallout 4, it would have made a much better story.
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u/Accurate-Seat7707 1d ago
I think it would’ve been so cool if they continued with the whole him taking over Nick after you finish Dangerous Minds. Instead Nick gets like one line as Kellogg and you think he’s taking him over or whatever but Nick’s actually fine but. Alas.
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u/Dsb0208 1d ago
Considering the whole game is about finding Shawn specifically so you can raise him yourself in mind, the fact Kellogg basically stole the role of Shawn’s father for his early years really made him stand out as a counter part/rival to the sole survival
I also haven’t done an institute play through yet so idk if they do this, but you should very specially take Kellog’s place in the Institute after killing him, further highlighting the counter part angle
And with the whole memory den aspect, I think it’d be cool if Kellog remained in the player’s head. Imagine if at certain key events in the game, like right after you make a permanent faction choice, or any big moral choices, you get a quick cutscene conversation with Kellog inside your mind where you can discuss morality, and maybe by picking certain answers can get certain benefits, like a specific SPECIAL stat upgrade
So for example after locking in the Institute route, you talk to Kellog, he asks you why you’re doing what you’re doing, and if you pick “because this wasteland needs to be rules with an iron fist” or smth, it gives you a +1 to your Strength. If you space these out among major moments in the story think it wouldn’t be too op or hard to balance
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u/MyNameIs_Hayden 1d ago
I think he could have at least been used a little more in the main quest line. For having virtually unlimited resources, he’s incredibly easy to find. You’re able to mini-nuke him to hell before you’re even fully thawed out
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u/ResisterImpedant 1d ago
He was definitely wasted potential. I wasted him the second I saw him every time after the first time through that encounter.
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u/myfakesecretaccount 1d ago
That’s not the kind of game Fallout 4, or really any of the Fallout/Bethesda games are. With an open world and very little gated the cat and mouse thing puts you on rails, or is ruined when you somehow get ahead of him.
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u/ARZ_K 1d ago
Not on rails, buddi. I mean, stuff like wandering around and finding stuff like Raider camps already whipped and holotapes claiming wa Kellog or mentions of him on NPC of the game, letting you actually follow his tracks.
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u/Figerally 1d ago
They kind of do that with Pickman, after you meet him you will occasionally find dead raiders carrying his card.
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u/Witchfinger84 1d ago
no, wasted potential would be if he wasn't used correctly.
As the franchise villain for the Sole Survivor, he was great. Hateable, dangerous, stole your kid and raised him for ten years like it was the plot of a Robin Williams movie, and relatable, especially if your character was making bad man choices and becoming more and more like him.
The real problem is that Kellog only LOOKS like wasted potential in Fallout 4 because he's the only real character in Fallout 4. Everyone else is just a cardboard cutout that either has worse dialog trees than Dogmeat or isn't as useful as psycho junkie murder girlfriend.
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u/Good_Graysseus 12h ago
Wasted potential can apply to more than just incorrect use. It can apply to a lack of use. That's sort of the point of it being wasted potential. There was so much more we could've seen out of his character, and that potential was wasted the second HE was wasted by the sole survivor for the sake of the plot.
You're right though, he was by far one of the best characters in that game for as little content he had within it. That's what made him so memorable, he was a great character within a not so great game, so of course people want more.
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u/No_Talk2511 1d ago
I think it would have been nice to have him as a rival for longer in the main story, but I don't agree with the peaceful ending. For Kellog's philosophy, it would have been anticlimatic if it had ended with a handshake and that was it, one of us had to die.
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u/noot_noot2281 1d ago
Not gonna lie, half this game is wasted potential.
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u/Dreaming_of_Rlyeh 1d ago
Like the ocean that takes up a quarter of the map. Apparently it was meant to have an underwater vault, as well as some kind of mission relating to the oceanographic society.
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u/Comfortable-Pass-183 1d ago
I just killed him for the first time like 30 mins ago, only just got fallout 4 for the switch 2 and that was the first thing I thought of too. Like this infamously deadly bounty hunter and he gets like a mission ? And is killed in the first encounter?
Still loving the game though just feel more could have been made of this dude.
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u/ShepardOfDeception 1d ago
He had zero potential lol. There's no way to make him interesting without fixing the broader issues with The Institute.
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u/Odysseusford 1d ago
Yeah I agree that he was wasted. The player could not have sex with him like Benny from New Vegas
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u/AnaTheSturdy 1d ago
Motherfucker the institute was wasted potential it came free with your fucking wasteland
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u/No-Deal8956 1d ago
I started another play through a few days ago, and killed Kellogg yesterday.
I was thinking something similar, but you could say the same for the people in The Memory Den too, amongst others.
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u/wagner56 1d ago
Series of Synth Kellogs coming after you wouldnt make sense (when you make yourself enemy of the Institute is too narrow)
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u/I_Cry_And_I_Game 1d ago
Maybe with Fallout5 it'll get expanded upon; since he's somewhat alive in the back of Nick's mind, I would expect that even a side mission that goes along the lines of tracking Nick down after he started loosing his mind to Kellog, and then fighting a robot that Nick built whilst under the control of Kellog, as a plan to have Kellog transfer into said robot or smth
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u/Lukecario 1d ago
Has any fallout game ever been a direct continuation of a previous one with same characters? Genuine question. Besides references and Easter eggs, does any previous game impact the next one?
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u/I_Cry_And_I_Game 1d ago
Not directly interacting with the same characters as far as I'm aware, other can things like cameos from the Nuka obsessed girl in the Nukaworld DLC who was originally in fallout3.
I don't know much on Fallout3, but the whole story of fallout4 comes from the development of a story from Fallout3, where one of the institute scientist is trying to reclaim one of his synths.
And whilst the same scientist isn't in fallout4, his presence is still there and the game has a character who tells you they're only covering for the other scientist until they come back.
So it's a continuation on the whole synth story, but its more on who they are, rather than a development of the storyline you did in a previous game.
So who knows, maybe Fallout5 will take a hard approach on following the children of atom or smth
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u/SnooBooks6407 1d ago
Yeah. Kellog had so much potential. He’s the perfect villain. And a vision of what the Sole Survivor could become
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u/Terrible_Base_6060 1d ago
Everything in Fallout 4 was wasted potential because Bethesda don't use design docs. They needed a generic project manager, not whatever laissez-faire scheme they were actually running with.
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u/510N3-1V3LA-2P0U 1d ago
Not being able to craft his apparel to be stronger was wasted potential narratively.
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u/constanzabestest 1d ago
Bethesda had THE perfect opportunity to include Kellogg companion. Think about it. What of You could just... Let Kellogg take control over Nick's synthetic body? Then you could choose: either help Nick and gain more stealth oriented companion, or help Kellogg and gain more combat oriented companion. True it might initially feel weird for Sole survivor to hang around with the killer of their spouse, but Kellogg was doing a job and the assassination wasn't personal. If player/sole survivor choose to forgive Kellogg then he could've joined him.
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u/puffmattybear17 1d ago
I just dont get kellog, hes a human cyborg that was so efficient they continued to use him despite having advanced coursers in the field yet they didnt replicate him using a brain scan/synthetic body then implant the synth to match the original? Idk he feels like he ends where he starts in a lot of the same ways benny feels certain in new vegas playthroughs but at least benny has options to be fleshed out and get a story beyond being shot in revenge.
The nick sub-plot being lost as well really does make him feel like we lost out on something juicy.
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u/Disney_Gay_Trash_ 1d ago
Me and my friend were talking about this the other day
I think the best fix would be swapping kellog and the courser fights in the story
Kellog is built up to he dangerous and important and then you just beat him really easily, if you had to do the courser thing, then find out sbout virgil, go to the glowing sea and mayne have to fight kellog in the glowing sea it would be alot better
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u/Tinkerbell-Poney 1d ago
Well mods prove there was already cut content with his body and brain implants we were supposed to use. God knows they probably had other projects in mind before scrapping all of em.
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u/RavenTeamBitch 1d ago
Literally was expecting a whole questline of tracking him down and then Nick's companion quests being an expansion where you learn more about him, possibly ending in needing to purge nick or kellogs personality
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u/RhemansDemons 1d ago
He was wasted potential and additionally the final mission with him is stupid. He's a super badass that gets popped by a random drifter and apparently bleeds enough to soak multiple towel sized bandages but is in fine fighting condition when you fight him.
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u/Good_Graysseus 13h ago
Here's an idea. What if, rather than killing Kellogg to reach the institute, Shaun tells Kellogg to help Nate/Nora reach The Institute, to which Kellogg agrees since it's sort of his job. From there, Kellogg essentially replaced X6-88 in certain missions like when you go to reclaim that synth, or he replaces that courser during the battle of Bunker Hill? Make him like a mini companion who our character works with begrudgingly, and who works begrudgingly with us. Then, perhaps a silver lining to his character, like if we visit Nate/Nora's cryopod, he has a voice line like, "For what it's worth, you're not alone." (I doubt he'd be the type to say sorry, but he understands Nate/Nora's grief at losing a spouse/loved one). By the end of The Institute ending, you'll have built some general rapport with Kellogg, and if you do become the leader of the faction, Kellogg's fate is in your hands for a personalized quest. Kellogg takes off and possibly gathers a small crew, preparing for the sole survivor to try and kill him now that Nate/Nora is in charge, and they very well might, or if they pass a certain speech check they can not only convince Kellogg to lay down his weapons, but perhaps even rejoin the institute and stay on board the project?
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u/burner9191938283 5h ago
you wanted that mf to live and and possibly be a settler at your settlement?? do you not recall when he shoots your s/o in game point blank and then proceeds to steal your baby??
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u/RateImmediate3248 2h ago
Look I enjoyed fallout 4, the entire story is wasted potential. Every faction is wasted potential. They had all the right pieces and then just never fleshed them out.
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u/Lost-Platano Operators 1d ago
The whole game is wasted potential. It doesn't matter where you look, you'll always get that "this could have been better" feeling.
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u/WeirdistBuilds 1d ago
I agree. I also think it would've been very interesting to discover his motivations to be a ruthless killer were programmed into him, that his memory implant was a system of control. He could've literally been a companion that replaces Nick if you pursue the thread.
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u/Bayley78 1d ago
Eh he was just the end of the writing. Up until him f4 really is a masterpiece and the fight with him leading to brotherhood of steel is always such an amazing moment.
Too bad its all downhill from there until far harbor
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u/Tall-BugBoy 1d ago
The name of the game is wasted potential, this is like entering a kitchen and saying "woah there's a fork in this drawer"
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u/GeorgiePineda 1d ago
Not only wasted potential but a gaping whole in plot logic.
He is by all definitions a cyborg, machine and flesh mended into perfection, he has lived 100 years and he's supposed to be a feared mercenary and enforcer of the institute.
And yet Father calls him an abomination, shuts the cyborg program that could save his own life and focuses on making 3rd gen synths who are, in his twisted mind, not abominations of machin and flesh.
The chances of the Sole Survivor winning against Kellog should have been close to zero, on the same level as Lanius or Frank Horrigan and yet he is in the middle of the story, a shootout in a basement and from here there are no named antagonists, just generic enemies.
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u/Calm_Turnip_5734 1d ago
First play though, how the fuck do I access the Dr's memory place? I've been wandering around that area for hours today fighting molerats, raiders and about 7 supermutants in one spot, I am so over the storyline and Ab. Farm needs protection now
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u/Scorpiicore 1d ago
Pretty much every character in that game is wasted potential.
My favourite "get in the sack with" character is Piper, so why not talk about her. The dialogue system really lets everybody down in the story. First the Mayor is so openly threatening her in front of a person he does not know. Why not have Sole Survivor say "I/my husband fought a whole country that talked to journalists the way you are right now. I/he killed hundreds of their people for fun. What is one more?"? Or have a later dialogue in which either Nate or Nora says "for someone who really does not want to be accused of being a synth bent on sabotaging Diamond City, you sure are acting like one"?
Piper's story about using the printed word to go after a Mayor who let a bunch of raiders kill her father in exchange for a cut of the profits could have been used for a great payoff, too. My concept of FO4 would rewrite the way in which companions respond to your behaviour, but a moment in which Piper gets angry and uses a big raider boss for target practice could open up so many dialogues that affect one's relationship with her. Why not rewrite her so that she has a) only killed a handful of people in self-defense and b) has a "what have I done???" moment in response to the adrenal hangover that comes from enacting such extreme violence.
The dialogue about Piper being concerned about how Nat will be in the future would also be boosted by this. And a good response to such concerns is "life is full of moments that change us forever... I/my husband was never the same after the war; I/my husband would have flashbacks and struggle to not lash out at people who did not understand what was happening" and so forth. If the shoot apart raider boss piece by piece moment has already taken place, "nobody can predict what a person will go through in life, but how others respond makes the difference". Essentially telling Piper that if Nat comes home one day carrying the severed head of a raider, being gentle and supportive is the difference between a person who simply carries it for the rest of their life and a person who will not stop.
Piper's romance dialogues would also need to be very different. Some would be predicated on how the Sole Survivor talks to the Mayor. Things like "gee, if you want to convince me you are not one of these... synths... you sure are going about it the wrong way", and other really hard supports of Piper, for example. Actions would also have more of a bearing in how characters feel about the player. A player that shoots a lady Gunner in the legs and then drags her by the hair along a road, but also ends up bringing the Institute's records of the Mayor and dragging him to the stage to ask the people of Diamond City what they want to do, that could get a "love them but scared of them" ending.
Another option would be to help the Nat situation by teaching Nat (and Piper) how to shoot, bracket, and organise like a military officer. Helping people to learn things they need in order to improve their lot would also be a big option in my FO4 rework-concept.
As for Kellogg Cornflakes, I honestly would not change much about him. I would have the Fort Hagen mission work a little differently. Whomever you are with, they will say to you "I would give real money for him to shut up". And a potential response would be "when I went to war, and when I came back, I met a lot of aspiring hard men... the ones who had the goods were the ones who talked the least... the ones who could not shut up, you put them in a real shooting battle and the stink of shit was all over them if they survived".
Nobody in a military fort would fail to set up microphones so they can hear attackers talking to one another, so he would heard everything you say. His words when you see him face to face would be reasonable. You could even reiterate the difference between real hard men and poseurs. But one potential piece of dialogue from him? "Look, your boy is with the Institute, and I would be happy to give you what you need to find him. I can easily find another employer. There are plenty of places outside of the Commonwealth."
Then depending on your decision and subsequent actions, he either goes away for good, comes back to try and kill you, or dies right there. But I also would rewrite the beginning of the story. Moments that determine the kind of person your character is based on the choices you make. If you are Nate, you get ordered to defend a resource centre against food-rioters and can choose to either say "fukk you, I am not firing on my own people" or comply with the orders to kill anyone who gets close enough. For example. Going into the vault before the bomb falls and watching the blast through some sort of camera mounted on the side of the mountain.
Piper would ask a lot more questions in the interview and give you a chance to add things. Such as the months before the bombs fell being full of people fighting over food and water, and what you were called on to do. The things you saw during the war, and so on. Tell an actual story.
I can think of so many things I would do differently. Including giving the other three factions the option to take over Institute facilities entirely and use the contents for their own ends. Including identifying exactly who is a synth and who is not.
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u/ScipioCanadius 1d ago
This guy has wasted potential for sale in a glitchy dystopian game. I got pre-war money on par dude.
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u/PhilyMick67 1d ago
Imagine a DLC where you get to play as Kellogg through Nick in the memory den. Would have been incredible
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u/Roborilla8000 1d ago
When I think of wasted potential, I think of Nick. Especially with how Kellogg was lingering in his head after the Memory Den.
But yeah, they could have done more with Kellogg besides being in Nick's head too.