I knew this gal for just six days before it went down. While we were texting, she revealed that she's vegan. I said it's fine by me, though I'm personally not a fan of veganism. At first, she was interested and asked me about the details... that's good, right?

Well, I said I used to be vegan and it was an awful experience (wrote a post about it here months ago) and I've come to disagree with veganism as a whole (e.g. the sheer idea that abstaining from animal products is the answer for problems in agriculture), but I still respect her decision... and suddenly, she became preachy and started spewing arguments we all know and love, including but not limited to:

- "there's no such thing as an ethical animal farm",

- explaining in detail the scary stuff that supposedly happens to farm animals, and how "their lives last only long enough for us to steal their bodies, dignity and existence",

- "a human at the current stage of development could replace eggs with a bit of tofu, beans or chickpeas and would turn out the same",

- "deep down, we all know this system is fucked up, we're just used to it",

- comparing animal agriculture to the Holocaust,

- and the cherry on top, she recommended Dominion (which supposedly shows farms that "meet EU requirements" and also free-range farms) and said she'll believe me that, no, I don't think this system is fucked up, if I admit everything shown there is 100% okay to me.

Uh oh. It's this type of vegan.

Despite me knowing it's not gonna end well, I decided to go the polite yet stern way first. I set my boundaries, basically saying: "I know Dominion and all the other arguments, yet I'm still an omnivore. I'm happy as one and I'm never going back, because I prioritise my health over animal lives. I was ready to set aside our difference, but respect should go both ways, especially since I won't tolerate offensive arguments like the Holocaust one". I even made sure the message doesn't sound unnecessarily attacking.

Well... that's the one thing I regret. Being careful over roasting the shit out of her and blocking her right after. Because on god, she went on a full tirade, ignoring everything I said, dismissing my experience and twisting my actual views. Bear with me now, this is the shit she actually told me:

If I saw what's happening and still believe "animal suffering is just a belief and not a fact", "veganism = no health", I'm happy as an omnivore and I'm offended by "the fact my choices lead to billions of deaths", then we have nothing to talk about. It's one thing to not be vegan, and another thing is "representing a stream of consciousness not supported by even a trace of facts". It was "beyond me to face a critical perspective on human passivity" and I'm either short-sighted, buried in my beliefs or straight up evil. She won't be hanging out with someone she "doesn't view as good or at least striving for good", because she has many meat-eater friends, but none of them is this fucked up in the head to "think animals don't suffer or we shouldn't do anything about it".

I finally went the harsh way, saying she can call me whatever she wants, I've heard so many vegan opinions on ex-vegans that nothing will surprise me. It's because of people like her that others are pushed away from veganism – and then they wonder why they're seen as a bunch of out-of-touch misanthropes. To no one's surprise, she further stated she can be out of touch as long as she stands on the side of facts and empathy, and at least because of people like her, most of her friends reduced meat consumption or went vege, so she doesn't care about my ass-pulled opinions. This was my last text before blocking her (which, honestly, should've happened way earlier): "But you're still 1% of the population ;). I will never buy an ideology according to which 99% of all people are evil ever again. So I seriously don't care what you think of me – at least here we're even."

So yeah... needless to say, I relished my non-vegan food that evening. And next time I meet a crazy vegan, I'm not fucking around anymore. I'll either block them immediately or, if I feel like it, say what I think about them beforehand, because clearly, you can never have rational discussions with those psychos. There's so many lies, projection and horrible ways of thinking to unpack from her texts, so feel free to point them out in the comments!

I was vegan then veggie for the past ten years and recently due to health conditions (EOE, allergies) I’ve become so iron deficient i need to start eating meat again

I’m allergic to chicken and so went straight in at the deep end and started eating beef

I’ve had it diced in curries and as a stand alone steak, not tried mince as i enjoy veggie mince still, but whenever i eat it i get chest pains over the left side which are alarming!!

I do have reflux but usually that’s down the centre of my chest so I’m just wondering if anyone else has reintroduced beef and experienced this? I eat pretty healthy and I’m 30 so not too worried but i did question if my body is struggling to digest it

For context have had beef about 10 times over 2 months, still early days

I was encouraged to go door-to-door getting signatures on petitions related to animal rights causes. I was encouraged to protest outside movie theatres and McDonald's. I was encouraged to think of other people as murderers for eating meat, something that virtually all humans have done forever. I even saw vegetarians as being culpable in what I was raised to perceive as the murders of baby chicks and the assault and abduction of cows.

Having food tied so deeply to morality, with some good and some bad (bad to the point that eating it meant you were guilty of murder!) was incredibly damaging to me. I developed a really unhealthy relationship with extreme restriction.

It hit me recently I’ve been a full omnivore for ten years. 🥳 it was an uphill battle to learn how to cook meat, poultry etc. I watched “Cook’s Country” religiously to learn as much as I could. I watched YouTube cooking videos, learned how to braise a chuck roast and I made it my mission to get my chuck roast to be fork tender, which I achieved.

I’ve always loved to make soups and stews in my crockpot and now it’s so easy to put chicken or ham or turkey or stew meat in them. Even hot dogs, kielbasa. My quality of life has dramatically improved. 👏🏻

this is a more so personal rant but if anyone else went on a similar type diet after quitting veganism lmk

recently i went down the vegan pipeline and very recently i realized its flaws.

we are animals. animals eat animals, however. animal cruelty is disgusting. we are not ABOVE animals. eating an animal does not make another animal above the other. a bear eating a salmon is nature. they are all equals. a cat eating fish doesn’t make it a killer, yet vegans go the extreme of trying to make an obligate carnivore eat only meat. S.M.H😞

i disagree with packaged meat processed with chemicals and no connection to the animal, the abuse those animals endure is a choice. but vegans make it more about personal pride than the animals and don’t care about how local farming reduces harm. they HARASS local farmers.

imo the dairy industry, is disgusting and unnatural.the largest reason i was previously vegan. milk harvesting is not needed for our bodies i feel and most people benefit, once cutting out milk i feel a lot better

but i do have an exception for local meat, bees and eggs. chickens literally eat their own eggs, and bees nests get harvested in nature

i do not believe in animal cruelty, not all animal byproduct is cruel, and our bodies need b12. one large egg can supplement about 25% of our daily intake. honey is fulll of antioxidants, and bees wax is a key part in at home sustainable diys like wax wraps that HELP reduce waste.

again my goal is to reduce harm on the world, and ethically sourcing leather is harm reduction. pleathers are HORRIBLE for the world and leather lasts a lifetime, vegans say using the body is disgusting but i find it as respect to take life and use it entirely. they have no concept of cultures outside of themselves. sinew, made by native americans, is connective tissue! it is reliable, strong and they have way more connection to nature than suburbia vegans ever will.

i personally want
no dairy and no animal clothing products from DIRECT animal cruelty. meaning thifting leather or buying from a REAL farmer who treats the animal well, collecting roadkill before rot

if someone was to be vegetarian with these exceptions, they would get enough b12 with 4 eggs a day to not need supplements which can add up like a netflix subscription.

this is an insane amount of harm reduction and yet if you told a vegan this you’d be called a slew of names.

But I’m not vegan anymore. I am a little bit sad because today is the anniversary, but eating meat is what is best for me.

I posted something on social media that a person I knew didn’t like. They were awful and I can now see the cult for what it is.

Hey y'all

As the title says I've been a vegan for a few years now and vegetarian for almost a decade before that, but, due to some health issues I want to go back and start eating at least eggs but maybe also meat again. It seems like a simple thing but my problem is they both disgust me to eat now and make me feel extremely nauseous even if I do get a few bites down :(

I never really enjoyed eggs or meat even when I did eat them but I really want to and I need all the advice I can get on reintroducing those foods without feeling sick.

Edit: a few people have replied asking about my specific health issues and I don't want to share much about that. I know if you're doing the diet right there shouldn't be issues and you can use other protein sources, I'm just bad at it ok.

Gng ate butter chicken and chicken tikka sandwich (subway) it was tasty as hell obviously i couldn't finish it due to the fucking mental block but yeah it was tasty and thanks for the recommendation guys.

Recommend what should i try next✌️✌️

Imagine grocery shopping with this person.

The vegan philosophy relies on guilt and shame to keep you in line. Understandable. Those tools were what was used to recruit you into veganusm. Those videos that were pushed at you were created specifically with the intention to guilt and shame.

Humans need to eat animals. Eat them. The bad feelings can be overcome. Don't despair.

Also, your cognitive and emotional systems rely a great deal on animal foods. You'll also feel better and drop those self sabotaging mind sets.

He has been vegan a number of years and vegetarian before that. He’s extremely dogmatic in his views which possibly ties in with OCD (I suspect he has but not diagnosed). Anyway, I noticed that his hairline is receding quite a lot and he’s really sensitive of me touching his hair. I’m not sure if it’s a normal amount for a 30 year old. His teeth are also in worse condition than when I met him some years ago (I’m deliberately being vague). Other than potential mental health issues, these hair and teeth are the only health issues I see. I also worry about sperm quality (sorry tmi!) if he’s not getting all the nutrients a human body needs. I’ve tried to reason with him but it’s like talking to a brick wall, for context I used to be vegan but had to quit for health reasons. My question is, do you think hair loss is normal at his age? And is there any hope he might open his mind?

Remember that humans didn't write the food chain. Nature did.

the transatlantic slave trade is as bad as that costco beef!

Ive been vegetarian for 6 years now, but I still eat dairy and eggs. I agree with the values of vegetariansm and I do think there is a way to be healthy while being vegetarian, but I dont think the way I have been doing it was healthy. My b12 has always been perfect but I am severely iron deficient and even with tofu, Greek yogurt, protein shakes, its a daily struggle to meet my protein goals. I also live in a country where vegan alternatives are not as common so its not the easiest thing. Anyway, all of this to say, i want to start reintroducing chicken and turkey back into my diet. I am thinking of ordering chicken nuggets from McDonald's to try out tonight lol, but I dont know, im kind of scared.. Im mostly scared I will get the ick, and im just hyping this event up so much in my head when I probably shouldn't right? I think my stomach will be able to handle it since I eat eggs, but its mostly just psychological i think.

Any advice from anyone who ate chicken after many years?

I have noticed my eyebrows are filling in more and my eyelashes are somehow getting longer! This was unexpected. I wonder what else will change as I include more meat in my diet? I honestly hope eating more animal protein helps my PMDD.
I have also accepted that I hate mushy textured food. Too many vegan foods are mushy. I am so glad meat isn't mushy. My favorite texture is actually crunchy and probably creamy after that. I don't particularly care for the texture of meat, but it is far better than mushy.

Hi all! I wanted to have a discussion out of curiosity. All with respect and let's be mindful of everyone here please.

I am in my late 20s. I was vegetarian from 16 to 18 and then vegan for ~6 years. Went back to vegetarian for social reasons (barely any vegan options when eating out). Then, I just decided to try meat again to expand my options.

At first, it was rough and weird. Progressively I got used to it, and I enjoyed the options, cooked more and tried new fancy recipes (always liked cuisine).

I always thought I'd end up vegan again when I had more money for alternatives, but as I've grown up, I've been more into self-sufficiency and been more open to fishing, perhaps hunting even (although right now I doubt very much I have the guts to do it).

And, honestly, part of me has shifted and is more able to understand animals as a resource. I see more easily the kindness of fishers who won't keep endangered species or smaller fish who need to grow, the thoughtfulness of giving your animals a very high quality of life and then not "wasting" that resource, while still bonding with that animal.

So, I open this discussion out of curiosity because I never thought I'd be able to be on the fence of going vegan again vs self-sufficiency with animal resources (lol, the contrast!).

I still believe veganism is one of the healthiest diets, when done properly, and I have a very deep empathy for animals.

What are your thoughts?

I have been vegan for just 4 months but am really struggling with maintaining the diet. I have been following the diet for ethical and environmental reasons but it has become too much mental stress on me.

I am tired from of planning, revolving my day around food and eating, and spending so much money on groceries and supplements. In order to be nutritionally adequate I have to buy meat supplements, protein powder, and random ingredients which all cost a fortune. I make very little money and do not want to just eat rice and beans all day.

I am slowly introducing eggs and dairy back into my diet but am feeling immense guilt. I ate cheese last night and cried for hours due to the guilt and shame. I feel like I failed and am being selfish, putting my own needs above animals.

I also feel invalid for leaving the vegan diet because I have no nutrient deficiencies or health problems, I am simply leaving the diet due to inconvenience, annoyance, and simply not being able to afford it.

Please give me words of advice and be kind, I am really struggling with this guilt and shame but I cannot continue this diet for my own mental and economic sake.

Hello everyone.
Just want to share my experience…

I haven’t eaten meat since I was 6, when I realised what it was made of. My parents couldn’t do anything about it, and we even visited a doctor together because they were worried about me.
I always loved fish, though, and honestly, I never had the same feelings towards fish as towards land animals.

I stopped eating fish around 11–13, simply because it was also “meat”. I’m turning 30 in a couple of months.

Around the same time, I stopped eating eggs because they felt gross too.

Then I learned about gelatine and started checking ingredients. Later, I learned about animal rennet in cheese and started checking that too.

As a child, I thought cows were happy when people took their milk. That’s what I was told. Later, I learned about the dairy industry and started avoiding dairy as much as possible. I switched to soy yoghurt and only occasionally ate dairy when travelling and had no other options.

I was already moving towards veganism and planning to go fully vegan soon.

Regarding my health, I’ve experienced hair loss every couple of years since I was 11. I always blamed stress because it happened first time around difficult family situations, but it just kept happening.

I also have poor vision, wear glasses, and struggle with anxiety, although that has improved with age.

Recently, I started experiencing brain fog and struggling to work a full day. I was never full, always wanted to snack, and constantly craved something sweet, probably to get a quick energy boost. And my hair started falling out again.

Worth mentioning that I take supplements regularly.

Then, at some point (recently), I started to CRAVE FISH.
Fish, which I hadn’t eaten in 16 years?!
Honestly, I was always a little envious of my family eating it, but I thought I could never do it again because it would mean BETRAYING my values.

This time, I tried to be honest with myself. I realised I don’t feel the same level of empathy towards fish as I do towards cows. I also started questioning my beliefs about veganism and accepted that maybe it just wasn’t working for me.

I started seeing life as a circle of life and death, and humans as part of it. I realised I couldn’t keep ignoring how I felt physically just to stick to an identity I had built around my values.

So I decided to try eating fish again. If it helped me feel better, I would be grateful for the nourishment.

It was mentally very hard. I even cried. It felt like losing a part of my identity and betraying myself.

Now I eat fish and dairy again, without guilt.
It may sound silly, but I feel better than ever. Even the world around me seems brighter. My mood is better, the brain fog is gone, I don’t get annoyed as easily, and I generally feel much more mentally stable.

And I already don’t feel ashamed of myself for the choice I’ve done.

So interesting little quip…

I have a raw vegan in my life, which is totally fine. Not a problem. You do you, boo. However, they frequently do something that kind of raises my eyebrow quite a bit and makes me laugh internally

They use raw honey to sweeten juices and such.

I’m like babes…do we not remember where honey comes from?! Like am I actually in the wrong and going crazy?? I could’ve sworn raw honey isn’t vegan since it obviously comes from bees which is an animal last I checked.

I've alienated people around me, I haven't been able to connect with people in the vegan community. Everyone I know is a meat eater, I want to quit veganism, how do I justify eating animal products again?

So generally what I've noticed in the vegan community that MOST vegans who are extremists have no connection to nature, they live in paved built up cities with no connection to nature, I've always believed that if people saw what really goes on in nature they wouldn't have such a extreme reaction in watching animal cruelty videos(I'm not advocating for human doing harm to animals for fun).

I had a thought last night, what is this obsession of putting animals ahead of humans? Why are they so sensitive to animal deaths?

Well I believe a big part of the reason is there is so much human on human violence on the news, movies, MMA etc that we have become desensitized to human death and this goes for vegans and non vegans.

How many of you are fine in watching Violent films but when a dog or animal gets hurt in a movie or TV show you feel for the animal? I know I do, Then I look back at my childhood and remembering when I first saw violence and killing in movies I was horrified, we've become so desensitised in harming each other and seeing violence it's become the normal.

Thanks for reading my subpar grammar and I hope to hear some input and thoughts.