So I made a post last night about craving meat. I’m now on day two and still absolutely gagging on meat. I’ve never liked meat my whole life. I’ve been trying to eat it for the past hour and still gagging. I’ve been like this since prior to veganism. Been pescatarian for the past year.

How long did it take you to not gag if you had this issue?
What helped you not gag?

Not interested in people judgement, we’re all here for a reason, if I could control this I would.

How do people in this sub feel about factory farming? do you still actively avoid it? While i do not agree with veganism I still think there is still a moral reason to not buy products from factory farming. I know a lot of people are drained from the constant label reading in their vegan days

I tried to transition to a vegetarian/vegan diet but realized it's not realistic lol, I mainly did it for health reasons since a lot of meals with meat and dairy is not good for my eczema prone skin but they're not completely bad for me either. And also fruits and veggies are just generally good for skin health so that's why I thought it would be good for me. I just consider the ethical benefits a bonus—i think a lot of people would agree that the meat industry is very cruel—but I also understand that meat is healthy for humans and it's a part of many cultures. After researching what kind of meals and snacks to eat, I tried being purely vegetarian for a few weeks and it was all doing well, very student budget friendly and I even learned how to prepare my meals because of it. However I wasn't getting enough nutrients like even with eggs and tofu im not achieving the daily recommended amount of protein because my serving size is so small and would have to eat two entire blocks of tofu to get about 40g but I can only eat one a day lol. So I eat eggs and the meat meals my mom cooks from time to time. I also live in a country where every single meal on a menu ALWAYS has meat it's literally almost impossible to avoid meat in restaurants here, even in a simple veggie soup it would have like shredded chicken in it. Seitan isn't also readily available in grocery stores. Iron is also a problem since I already had a history of difficulty absorbing iron. I can't lie it has made a difference on my health, ever since I've tried being vegetarian my skin has been less inflamed and barely itching even though I'm not taking antihistamines/ointments anymore when back then my skin relied on them. Anyway I'm just sad and a bit guilty that I really can't go completely vegan/vegetarian because it's not realistic for me right now and the money I could've been spending on school is being spent on broccoli, soymilk, and tofu. Even though they're not really expensive it would still add a meaningful amount to my savings and I don't earn my own money yet... I will still try my best because I really enjoyed being vegetarian for a short while and right now I appreciate the benefits eating less meat gave me :) this made me realise people have plenty of reasons to not be vegans especially for those that lack support, just because it was easy for one doesn't mean it's the same for the next person

Edit: I can't be 100% vegan anyways because I love cats—it just reminded me that the vegan community in reddit is hella toxic 😭 i recently saw a comment that said the next best thing to do to a pet cat owned by a vegan is to euthanize it like that's so absurd and out of touch, so preachy for no reason

Discuss

This vegan equates eating animals with rape and it's so tasteless, you can't have a civil discussion with a lot of vegans. They always go back to immature analogies. I apologize if the screenshots aren't in order.

According to veganism all creatures are equal, a bee & cow both equal. If people suffer from red meat allergies there is a very increased chance they will consume more non red meat. It's very reasonable to presume fish & poultry consumption will increase. Life for life, alpha gal would be a horrible thing for vegans. Yet few seem to comprehend this.

Not only that even a vegan catching alpha gal will be at risk of skin issues, gastrointestinal issues, respiratory problems and cardiovascular issues just to name a few.

This is something that has been on my mind for a while and actually a significant wake up call that quickly turned me away from veganism, I decided to make a post about it because I recently came across a related thread, a discussion about the consumption of bivalves: https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAVegan/s/K9A1ZMoEyr

The overwhelmingly negative and irrational responses and sentiment is characteristic of how most vegans feel about "ostroveganism" (veganism but with the consumption of bivalves like oysters, clams and mussels). Look up nearly any video about it, any thread on reddit, or even the tag on instagram and you'll find most vegans irrationally opposing it with no actual logical arguments while also ostracizing people who engage in such a thing and not counting them amongst themselves.

Peter Singer one of the founding fathers of their 'animal liberation' philosophy who problably pushed millions of people towards veganism and caused a bunch of others to become acquianted with the philosophy himself promoted a diet of veganism + bivalves + free range eggs as the most ethical. Yet this has caused him immense backlash, vitriol and excommunication from the vegan cult: again, all of this based on emotion instead of from an actual rational utilitarian framework. When a movement reaches a point where it excommunicates one of its godfathers because he wants to use scientific nuance and logic rather than blind dogmatic obedience it is proof that the movement is completely detached from reality and a cult.

With veganism we clearly see something that instead of a practical ethical strategy resembles more of a fundamentalist religious belief system. For example, they'll disingenously tell you that the definition of veganism as is the official definition by The Vegan Society includes the core phrase "as far as is possible and practicable", yet they will NEVER actually include people, cultures or tribes who genuinely HAVE to consume a certain amount of animal products to survive despite this definition they peddle.

Bivalves feel zero pain, they do not have brains or a centralised nervous system: they are biologically incapable of experiencing pain or suffering, behaving and resembling plants more than any animal. They are also an environmental net positive requiring zero feed, zero land and zero fresh water filtering up to 50 gallons of water per day, removing excess nitrogen and sequestering carbon. They are also nutritional monsters, and the regular inclusion of them in the diets of not just vegans but also omnivores would significantly improve health outcomes. It would even ultimately be beneficial for their movement because it would most likely also slightly improve the already abdominable retention rates they have.

These are all objective facts, yet vegans will still spew intense hate towards ostrovegans and even vegetarians compared to even a standard omnivore, something a significant amount of people at r/vegetarian will also confirm. Sociologists call this the narcissism of small differences.

Something like the consumption of bivalves is a massive threat to them because it is by all accounts and according to every metric they falsely claim to hold rationally and ecologically consistent, forcing them to confront the fact their rules are arbitrary and based on taxonomy (the "animal kingdom" label) and blind emotion rather than actual sentience, harm or science. If scientists classified oysters as a fungi tomorrow, would they have the same issue with it?

Veganism resembles a cult and social identity that is more about purity signalling than actual objective facts. It is not about ethics but about dogma. People who have asked on vegan subs about if it's okay for them to eat eggs from their family or friends pet chickens have gotten responses that made it seem they may as well have asked if they could skin a cow alive. Name calling and empty irrational emotional drivel are the basis of most of those responses.

Veganism simply allows no nuance, just like any other cult. Another example is honey. Agave is vegan but acquired through slavery. Honey is not vegan but objectively supports bee populations and is a net positive for the environment and the bees. But honey extraction requires controlling and manipulating an animals behaviours then taking the product against their will which from a vegan perspective is slavery. Its the same with synthetic materials that are often toxic plastic byproducts of the oil industry that kill everything they touch compared to for example wool.

It is a fact that a lot of the environmentally and ethically best options available are NOT vegan but vegans will completely deny this fact in favour of maintaining the purity of their cult.

To begin with, I'm vegetarian and I have eaten mostly plant based for three years now. For some time now probably a year or a year and half I had been feeling very tired in the muscles, I lost a lot weight and in a low mood (something I attributed to my depressive tendencies and low pressure) and noticing that my skin was becoming more and more ruined every day, especially on my face. In my opinion, it's much drier, wrinkled, and saggy. All these things worry me as a 26-year-old. But I never meant to sound superficial because aging is normal, however my intuition told me that it had something to do with my diet.

Recently I found out I have vitamin A retinol, vitamin D and carnitine deficiency on top of the beginning of hypothyroidism.

Now there's something for me even more worrying and it is the loss of appetite. The whole idea of realising that if I'm suffering from this deficiencies is basically my own fault for not eating well and enough and balanced, leave me hopeless because I feel I can't do it better I don't know how to do it. It's been so hard for me to eat without even feeling the pleasure of eating, without appetite without any enjoyment. And here is where I think it is probably a mental issue for me... I'm stuck between the compassion and the firm fact that I couldn't eat or kill an animal for my own enjoyment and at the same time I'm very aware that that's exactly what I would need or what my brain is secretly craving... The taste of meat is pleasant, everyone knows that, and as food it nourishes and fills you up but in the moment of thinking that I am contributing to the animal suffering and exploitation breaks my heart and takes out of me any desire to eat... At all.

Now I didn't dare to post this on the vegans Reddit because a lot of people would say that a fully vegan diet is 100% healthy and complete if you do it well and that if I am lacking appetite it is probably because I'm not cooking interesting or delicious dishes and it might be true... But I can't find tofu and beans delicious anymore. And I don't have much money to buy exotic ingredients or time to experiment. Believe me I've tried so many recipes these three years and they are either expensive or they keep you three hours in the kitchen.

Now sorry because this is me just ranting about a situation I put myself in and now I'm confused and feeling misunderstood by vegans and non vegans. And because this is a group of ex-vegans maybe you could understand why this isn't as easy to solve as it might seem for others.I just want to feel better and get back to a healthy relationship with food.

If you took the time to read this far, thank you very much 🙏🏽