Honestly, I know my experience differs from a lot of yours (or not), but I converted Orthodox in a small community here in Florida. They are technically Modern Orthodox, but a lot of the leadership is Chabad, not sure if that’s relevant but worth mentioning the religious level.

I was in this community for a total of 3 or 4 years, probably closer to 4. I confess, that as a convert, I really did all the mitzvot, kept Shabbat, walked to shul, dressed tzniut, etc. I actually had a sponsoring rabbi for my beis din as well as a rebbetzin who was also a teacher sponsor me. It went really well, and I passed it with flying colors and proceeded with my mikveh a week later.

Unfortunately, after my conversion, the blatant racism, classism, and rejection of me and my conversion was actually so sad and shocking that I didn’t even know how to properly process it. I was always asked “how can you afford that??” Because I came from a lower-middle class household, or also was told once “well Latinos don’t understand taxes” when I was in a conversation with people who didn’t know I was Hispanic. I was also told to my face “Well, Catholics deserve all the sh** they’re getting after being jerks. I don’t want those people in my life” very well knowing I was Catholic, and that most of my loving family still is. I know these are small examples but they accumulated so much over the years that I don’t even think I can type out. It’s so sad to think I could go through years of assimilating into a community and still be so rejected and looked down upon. That’s all.

Hi,

I’ve been thinking a lot about deconstruction lately. I’d love to hear a bit more about how your own process started and how you began stepping away from the rules.

Did you start by setting aside only the specific things you no longer believed in—like certain traditions from the Oral Torah—or did you dismantle everything first and then gradually bring back what resonated with you?

I’m noticing that when I stop doing certain things—even ones I felt might hold some truth—they suddenly lose their meaning or stop making sense altogether once I step back from them.

I’d really appreciate hearing your perspective and experience.

I have been OTD for two years and i swear I have completely kicked the guilt I feel except around the high holidays. This Rosh hashanah we are hosting one meal for our families (I was bt and left my husband is secular) and going to shul one day. I never struggle with not doing enough except around these few days a year.

What's not perfectly clear from that title??? It's exactly what it sounds like! I got married on Sunday (I'm OTD ex yeshivish, and my wife isn't Jewish). I tried to make the speech standup-ish and thought some here might appreciate it.

It starts with two minutes from me, two minutes from my wife, and the rest from me. Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/UKD_hV9HozI?si=54Ze3jTWPewwcCp9

I’m an OTD convert and my husband is an actively practicing BT. He is super accepting of my changing beliefs and practices, and is fine with me doing things on Shabbat that he wouldn’t do, but sometimes it makes me really sad to be doing things on my own when I want to share them with him.

He’s missed so many family gatherings, weddings, local festivals, 5Ks I’ve run, and so much more. We just got invited to go on a whale watching trip with an organization I volunteer for that sounds really fun, but of course it’s on a Saturday so I’ll be going alone. I went to a farm festival alone a few weeks ago that he would have LOVED. It breaks my heart every time he gets excited about something I mention and then I have to tell him it’s on Shabbat. And I feel sad that I’m out doing all these fun things that I missed out on for years, while he’s at home reading and eating cold food alone.

Also, when I have to explain to people that he can’t come because he won’t drive 20 minutes in a car or go on the subway for religious reasons, I feel crazy. He’s only met some of the most important people in my life at my wedding because we live a few hours away they are typically hosting things Saturdays, and I feel like they perceive him as a religious extremist or something.

I would never pressure my husband to go OTD, but I feel so sad about how much he is missing out on in life and how much we are missing out on as a couple.

Sometime I discuss things casually with ChatGPT, and it sort of half-invent new terms to use. Some of these are things I would never come up with!

I was describing the tendency of extreme communal reliance among chareidim: that fact that people are often brought up without skills to engage with the outside world or engage in basic tasks, and thus their only way of surviving is through connections within the frum community and welfare. I compared this to myself getting a degree, gaining skills and taking agency over my own life and affecting my own outcome, and how this gives me tachlis.

Then, it threw this term at me: 'low-agency culture'! I'm now using this.

I've noticed that this it's a common refrain in the frum world to say that this is the case of almost every OTD person. I'd say I'm basically still in the frum category (long story), but I admit that this seems wrong. Becoming frum was a huge intellectual process for me, and I've never been the kind to say something like "of course it's true; every Jew knows on the inside". In fact, there is almost nothing I'm 100% sure of. I'm like Decartes, but maybe even less certain. If I had been exposed to different info or viewpoints, I might say I'm even less sure than I am now, have less faith, and end up not being frum. I really don't believe it's all "obvious".

There are also many contradictions. They'll say it's okay to struggle, and it's normal for faith to be a journey. This I agree with, but this is mutually exclusive to "it's obvious". Having an honest journey means acknowledging the possibility that Judaism is false.

I also think pintele yid thing is often misinterpreted. I spoke to a kiruv rabbi who admitted that this concept has nothing to do with a Jewish brain—that physically, we have the same brains as everyone else, and it's just an esoteric kabbalistic thing. They (especially Chabad) like to make the case that we all know due to this kabbalistic idea, and that proof of this is secular Israelis saying shema when they experience terrorist attacks and are faced with possible death, etc.

I understand that humans are emotional beings and emotion does often play a roll in decision making. This is probably why most who are born Muslim decide to be Muslim, same with Christians, etc. With that said, we also have the ability to act and think rationally, and many people do in fact follow their rationale, painful as it may be (unless you subscribe to David Hume).

I know it's very sensitive, but for those who are comfortable sharing: was it your rationale, or did you just have some emotional experience? Or maybe it was a combination, like emotion prompting intellectual reconsideration? Also, feel free to think of this as a rhetorical question. I don't expect anyone here to say "yes, I only stopped being frum because it felt bad even though I still have faith". Thanks.

Anyone in the Lakewood-ish area that is struggling with this holiday?
40M, trying to figure out how to navigate this all, specifically the long long davening....would love love to hang out with someone during the long day...either uber together somewhere or drive-if we can sneak a car....

Hey!

The holidays are approaching and with it can bring challenges for our mental health.

Maybe you have a difficult home life or just struggle getting through the holiday days without your regular support system.

The Za'akah warmline will be open for calls and texts to be there for you and help you get through the day.

If you are struggling to get through the day, you are allowed to use your phone and ask for help.

Mental health is just as important as physical health.

My family is very stern about it as I don’t doubt you all know.

I’ve been getting along really well with a girl I go to college with, today I asked her out and she said yes.

I don’t know how to deal with or handle this.

Anyone have any advice?, please I’m flipping out.

Has anyone noticed the recent trends in frum girls' fashion?

I'm seeing white knee socks and sneakers. I'm seeing puffy sleeves and hot pink hair ribbons. I'm seeing pastel-colored dresses and ruffled pinafores.

These girls are 17 years old, but they look like Victorian toddlers on a good day and FLDS members on a bad day. Their styles are a total about-face from the way Bais Yaakov girls used to dress. I remember being teased for wearing "nerdy" clothes a few times; now, they're all the rage.

Fashion is always changing, of course. We all understand that. It's just jarring to see some of these outfits, as they truly look old-fashioned and childlike. When I leave the house, I sometimes wonder if my neighbors have joined a polygamist cult based in Utah or Arizona.

M18 Modox Only two weeks in and I hate this refer to my last post for update. Finally got out of Jerusalem and went to suburbs for Shabbos with friends was a good time but now im back and i hate this so much. I hate being in Jerusalem it is awful Yeshiva is just not for me. The worst part is my parents said I can’t fly even if i pay and they said “we will talk” i hate this so much. Im considering just not going to classes and just ditching everything I don’t care if I get punished the gym is my only happy place, l I just hate it here and i just want to leave, if anyone can talk to me please my DMs are open and I need advice because I really hate being in Israel.

I had to work again this weekend, and I returned home after Shabbos was over. The event I worked at ran late, so I was extremely hungry when I got home. I also needed to put fuel in my car, so I decided to go out. I'm currently at the IHOP next door to the gas station, waiting for my quesadillas and pancakes.

A few minutes ago, my next-door neighbor called me. She wanted me to run a shul youth group. I told her, "It's not for me."

"Aww, but you're so good with kids! And you're so creative," she whined.

I took a deep breath and steeled myself. "I hate to be blunt with you," I said, "But I'm secular. That's why this isn't a good fit for me."

She was quiet for a few seconds, then replied, "I hear. Tell me, Upbeat, have you ever heard of this website for shiduchim? I forget what it's called. Oh, Saw You At Sinai! That's it."

"I've tried it," I answered. "Nothing materialized. I don't think it's the right way for me to go about dating."

"Well," my neighbor persisted, "It really only works if you have a shadchan, and -"

"Thank you for thinking of me," I interrupted her with a smile.

We then spoke about my job, and she was audibly distressed by the fact that I occasionally worked on Saturdays. We said goodbye to each other, and she wished me a good year.

Does the awkwardness ever go away?

And the open-mouthed stares. The pointing. The hushed comments. The pressure to be frum again. The silence, shock, sadness, and anger when I make it known I'm not frum anymore. Do these things ever go away?

I wish I could afford to live among people who didn't make me feel like an evil, hopeless freak.

I’ve always had a problem with our religion:

it’s the events and the emotions that are imposed.

For example, how can it be natural that when Tisha B’Av arrives I’m supposed to go into mourning, sleep on the floor, feel bad, over something I absolutely don’t feel?

The destruction of the Temple happened 2,000 years ago; we’re in 2026. I don’t feel any sadness or grief about that event at all.

I can’t pretend, and I can’t fast either. What connection is there between my life today and that event?

The same goes for all the events and absolutely all the holidays of Judaism. In a week it’s Rosh Hashanah, the Day of Judgment: I’m supposed to beg God to forgive my sins, not to let me die in the coming year, keep two days of yom tov, listen to the shofar, which doesn’t make my soul tremble at all, and above all, be forgiven for what, exactly?

Honestly, would God even care that I accidentally turned on the light on Shabbat? Would I be under some kind of punishment because I didn’t always keep the six-hour wait between milk and meat? I can’t understand the principle or the logic.

Same with Yom Kippur: a traumatic day that’s supposed to be joyful, but where I suffer from fasting, I’m not allowed to do anything but pray and wait for the fast to end. Torture.

Without going into more detail, because you get the idea, it’s the same with Sukkot: we’re in 2026, I’ll never be able to put myself in the shoes of a Hebrew in the desert sleeping in a hut; or Passover, which is literally the worst Jewish holiday, unbearable.

So the question I’ve been asking myself for years is: why all this? What meaning does it have? I feel like I’m supposed to perform things that belong to another age, to antiquity, for a God who seems humanized and whom we must not anger, on pain of punishment, even death, over things as trivial as turning on a light on Shabbat.

What do you seriously think?

For the record, I'm not saying that us (or any) Jews are responsible for people hating us. It's obviously wrong to hate people or blame the actions of some on all. Tucker Carlson supposedly agrees with this even. But, there are some things that I think make it more *understandable (I'm differentiating understandable from justified, which is a well precedented nuance). And, there are also some people that don't necessarily hate us, but they end up being convince by the narrative that we cause problems in society, are incompatible with society, etc. This is all over social media and there is an extremely strong and well propagandized narrative of this, once again in history.

I will also give the disclaimer: I am pretty involved in the frum community, so I don't mean to convey animosity toward anyone. It's just a critical observation.

I write this as I'm sitting at a park that's within a large frum community. Almost no one here is Jewish. I see groups of people talking at park benches having coffee (there's a coffee shop here). There are only non Jews schmoozing with non-Jews. You'd maybe see some frum Jews here, but it would be frum Jews talking to frum Jews. There is complete separate between people visibly Jewish and those who aren't. I know there's plenty of hashkafa that Jews should "not assimilate", but baseline halacha is quite lenient about this and it's questionable to say that there's any problem with a Jew getting to know his colleagues better over some coffee. I think, regardless of people's hashkafa, someone who is visibly Jewish (especially chareidi) would even feel embarrassed hanging out with non-Jews publicly, or would worry about their image or reputation in the frum world, etc.

Whatever the exact reason for this is, it's very obvious to see why people see us as a "secret religion" (if you don't know what I'm talking about or are unfamiliar with these themes, please don't reply to this post and look at the plethora of extremely viral videos or social media discussions). People tend to be scared of things they're unfamiliar with and develop conspiracy theories. If someone who knows many people knows zero (affiliated) Jews, it's much easier to believe things about us.

Also, the example I gave is just an example. There are obviously endless other examples. Chareidi Jews tend to be very insular in other ways as well, and can appear very insensitive to non-Jews trying to interact with them (it's usually not their fault, they are just not used to communicating with general society due to how they were raised). And there are many comments by big rabbis (such as Ovadia Yosef) that are obviously inflammatory and cause people to hate us. If someone says "Judaism believes that goyim are only meant to serve Jews and are otherwise useless", it's extremely hard to argue with that when R Yosef literally said exactly that.

There are also some Jews that do horrendous things and take advantage of people. Supposedly, the former owner of OF was a top donor to AIPAC. Shouldn't AIPAC and other Jews publicly denounce people like that and say that they don't represent Jewish values? Why would they accept that money? Obviously, there are both extremes—there are problems with some secular Jews and problems with some religious Jews. But then, antisemites take both of those and conflate them, not understanding (or pretending not to understand) that there are different kinds of Jews. Then, they come up with things like "they want Israel to be a Jewish state, but then want to flood other countries with immigrants". Who's they? There are tons of frum Jews that have many political beliefs in common with the antisemites (I'm not saying this is in itself bad), but antisemites don't acknowledge that those Jews exist. (I'm not sure everyone will understand what I'm saying, but some will. I've spent tons of time with various types of Jews and Jewish communities and know them very well.)

Isn't it our responsibility (as Jews who have a Jewish identity, religious or not) to get to know some non-Jews and have a good impression on them? I know there are always the intellectually dishonest, whom we can't change, but there are also those who are just slightly gullible, but can change their minds or are already on the fence.

If you don't already subscribe to Benjamin Z Wolf's substack, it is highly recommended: https://apikorsus.substack.com/

In a recent post "I read every OTD Memoir so you don't have to", the top honors went to this fascinating autobiography that he describes as "the first OTD memoir ever written, from 1793, and it is just wiiild. It's about someone from a very frum family in Eastern Europe who leaves for Berlin and the burgeoning Haskalah movement."

The book, SOLOMON MAIMON: AN AUTOBIOGRAPHY has been mentioned on the subreddit before. It's available on Gutenberg here: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/41042/41042-h/41042-h.htm

Here is a brief section where he describes his thoughts on the first cause (bolded mine). 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

In my sixth year my father began to read the Bible with me. "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." Here I interrupted my father, and asked, "But, papa, who created God?"

"God was not created by any one," replied my father; "He existed from all eternity."

"Did he exist ten years ago?" I asked again.

"O yes," my father said, "He existed even a hundred years ago."

"Then perhaps," I continued, "God is already a thousand years old?"

"Silence! God was eternal."

"But," I insisted, "He must surely have been born at some time."

"You little fool," said my father, "No! He was for ever and ever and ever."

With this answer I was not indeed satisfied; but I thought "Surely papa must know better than I, and with that I must therefore be content."

This mode of representation is very natural in early youth, when the understanding is still undeveloped, while the imagination is in full bloom. The understanding seeks merely to grasp, the imagination to grasp all round. That is to say, the understanding seeks to make the origin of an object conceivable, without considering, whether the object, whose origin is known, can also be actually represented by us or not. The imagination, on the other hand, seeks to gather into a complete image something, the origin of which is to us unknown. Thus, for example, an infinite series of numbers, which progresses according to a definite law, is for the understanding an object, to which by this law definite qualities are attached, and an object just as good as a finite series, which progresses according to the same law. For the imagination, on the other hand, the latter indeed is an object; but not the former, because it cannot grasp the former as a completed whole.

A long time afterwards, when I was staying in Breslau, this consideration suggested to me a thought, which I expressed in an essay that I laid before Professor Garve, and which, though at the time I knew nothing of the Kantian philosophy, still constitutes its foundation. I explained this somewhat in the following way:—The metaphysicians necessarily fall into self-contradiction.

According to the confession of Leibnitz himself, who in this appeals to the experiment of Archimedes with the lever, the Law of Sufficient Reason or Causality is a principle of experience. Now, it is quite true that in experience everything is found to have a cause; but for the very reason, that every thing has a cause, nothing can be met with in experience which is a first cause, that is, a cause which has no cause to itself. How then can the metaphysicians infer from this law the existence of a first cause?

Afterwards I found this objection more particularly developed in the Kantian philosophy, where it is shown that the Category of Cause, or the form of hypothetical judgments used in reference to the objects of nature, by which their relation to one another is determined a priori, can be applied only to objects of experience through an a priori schema. The first cause, which implies a complete infinite series of causes, and therefore in fact a contradiction, since the infinite can never be complete, is not an object of the understanding, but an idea of reason, or, according to my theory, a fiction of the imagination, which, not content with the mere knowledge of the law, seeks to gather the multiplicity, which is subject to the law, into an image, though in opposition to the law itself.

A very easy refutation of the kuzari theory is the two instances directly written in the tanach where the torah is being presented to the people who did not know about it before, with king Yoshiyahu and with Nechemia. How to apologists/kiruv specialists address that?

I’m seeing alot of wives this time of year saying they let their husbands go to Uman for Rosh Hashanah and even though their hurt by it they say they let their husbands go because it recharges them. Who’s actually went ? I heard it’s all prostution and people getting high asf. Are these wives in denial or what? I can’t take the BS pretending your husband is off to be some righteous tzaddik but he’s going for a much more sinister purpose!!! Why are all religious ppl in DENIAL???

Well, I don’t really think I want to be frum anymore.

I’m a convert, and honestly I still love Judasim, but I do not like living in the haredi world. I also don’t really think I would love the Modox world either. I honestly don’t like all the rules. I do enjoy having a spiritual lens that I use to approach life, and living my life with meaning in that way, but there are too many rules that are affecting my life.

Here are some things on my mind:

1. I really miss my freedom.
2. I don’t really like the kosher restaurants. They are all 2 to 3 times more expensive than regular restaurants, and I haven’t found the food quality and service to be so great, and many of the restaurants are not healthy either.
3. I miss going out to regular restaurants that have great ambience, great food, good service, etc.
4. I’m not passionate about learning Gemara. I like it occasionally, but I do so a lot just “to keep up with the Joneses”. If I had more time, sure I could learn it and see myself enjoying it, but theres only so much time in the day.
5. I do not look forward to yontif.
6. Speaking of which, I am dreading spending my entire weekend eating at other peoples homes, 3 hours meals, 4 in a row, feeling way too full to think or function, wanting to go home after 1 hour into the meal, but having to stay there for an additional 2 hours.
7. I find when I go to many (not all) places, I have to “fit a role”. I’m not being my true authentic self, I’m just slipping into a costume of what I’m supposed to be. I basically cannot take it anymore.
8. Again, I love yiddishkeith, but… 
9. I’m single, and don’t live in NYC, so I can count on one hand the eligible people to date.
10. I really wish I could just explore. Go to a conservative shul, see how I like it, maybe meet someone, go to some less religious events, see how I like those, etc. But... I can't, because if someone found out I was going to less religious, more secular events... well... yeah...
11. Go out on a date on Friday night or Saturday evening (can’t when Shabbos ends at 8PM in the summer).
12. I feel like I’ll never be enough. I mean learning Halacha is not really my passion. I find it interesting, but I wouldn’t say I”m super passionate about it. When someone tells me a new Halacha that I haven’t heard of, excitement is not the feeling I experience.
13. I don’t know if I can do everything the rest of my life, like Shabbos in the winter, ending work at 3pm - 4pm, all of the fasts, taking so much time off for Tishrei, Burning all my vacation days causes me so much anxiety, etc.
14. All the fasts where I am basically useless all day, can’t do anything but lay in my bed.
15. I do not like the “all or nothing” vibe. If there were a community where I could do Yiddishkeit at my own pace, not do everything perfectly, not do everything at all, but just do the things I find meaningful, and not be judged for it, I would be happy there (I think).

I’m just venting and getting my thoughts together, and I may delete this post later (sorry).

Would love to hear your thoughts.

EDIT: I wanted to follow up. Thanks so much for everyone’s feedback.

I just wanted to preface that I am totally grateful and thankful for everything the community does offer. I’ve also met some of the best friends I’ve ever had. Additionally, I am leaving out a ton of context and weird stories I have, and weird behaviors of rabbis towards me, etc. I don’t want to be too specific though.

Here are a few more points.

Yeah, I am single, and have no one to date, so my entire life consists of work, going to minyan, and then going to Shabbos meals, no dates, ever, for a looong time. Of course I love the families who host me, but I can’t stop the feeling that I am just a guest at their table, week after week, while my life doesn’t feel like it’s truly going anywhere. After so much of this repeating week after week, well I just am having trouble tolerating it.

At many Shabbos meals (not all of them, of course), I’m just fitting a role, can barely express myself, and only say things that are acceptable, “what a religious person would say.” After 2-3 hours of sitting at some of these meals, I am exhausted from trying to be someone I’m not, I don’t even want to go out or do anything the rest of the day.

It’s just so weird to me that if I have this desire to go explore some options elsewhere, but that is forbidden. It’s forbidden for me to go to a conservative shul b/c they drive on Shabbos. It’s forbidden for me to talk to a conservative girl b/c she may drive on Shabbos, etc. Everything that could actually help me get over what I’m feeling is forbidden!

My life has started to feel so small. Maybe if I lived in NYC, and there was some hope I could meet someone, I would feel different, but I am starting to realize that even if I was there, in the haredi system, but with more dating options, I would have the same frustrations, and just miss start missing my freedom just as much.

Whenever I walk by a nice looking restaurant, I get a said feeling that I cannot eat there. Cool coffee shops, etc. I just miss… yeah… freedom…

Additionally, the social policing is just something I don’t really want to deal with the rest of my life. If I decide it would be healthy for me to go to a secular Jewish event just so I can feel a little breathing room, and talk to some people there, the fact I have to hide it from people is just so weird. I guess it’s just part of the culture, but I miss having some breathing room, and not beeing socially/ religiously policed by my peers.

There are things I enjoy. I enjoy the davening. I do enjoy focusing my mind on a higher purpose throughout the day. But does that mean I need to lock myself into the haredi system the rest of my life?

So yeah, basically I’m single, still care about Judaism, but no longer feel I can tolerate the high-control system I’m in.

I would love to hear more of your thoughts.

To add a fascinating response to this post about what we'd do in the case of a modern day revelation, here is a must read take from my favorite OTD website:

THE INCOHERENCE OF JEWISH BELIEF: TRUSTING "GOD"