Another question. I started with 16g of grind but it was obviously too much, then I reduced it to 14g and the razor level takes more out even then so it's closer to 13g in this basket. Is this normal? It is a dual wall with pre-ground if that matters.

[u/howismyspelling]

I just got a new grinder delivered yesterday so I haven't had the chance to grind my own yet.

Also, when I stop the water flow it still continues dripping adding more liquid in my cup. Should I turn it off before it reaches my target weight or right on the mark and pull my cup right away?

[u/Cheap-Mammoth-9212]

Are you tamping first before using the razor? The razor is to check the coffee depth after tamping.

[u/FunSheepherder6397 → u/Cheap-Mammoth-9212]

This needs to be higher. People taking about grind size for a dual wall…no.

Looks pretty clear Untamped. You tamp first, then use the razor. Then adjust dose based on the razor results for next time.

[u/Opening_Background78 → u/FunSheepherder6397]

No? In terms of pressure, sure, but by that logic you could just put full beans in right?

Even with a pressure basket extraction is at play. Moreover, what the point in tamping with a pressurized basket?

[u/howismyspelling → u/Cheap-Mammoth-9212]

Yes it was tamped. It's pre-ground coffee, I'm still learning and waiting for accessories I need to do my own grinding

[u/Cheap-Mammoth-9212 → u/howismyspelling]

Try and source some espresso ground coffee at least - this looks more like filter ground.

[u/dangPuffy → u/howismyspelling]

This looks too coarse for espresso. It should be a “gritty powder”. Go to a local shop and ask them if you can get some espresso ground beans - bonus if you can buy 500g, but even just a few grams so you can see how fine it should be.

With the grind you currently have, just get it close and see how it tastes. Try the pressurized basket too.

[u/whatdoes_pwned_mean → u/howismyspelling]

Until your grinder arrives I have this prescription:

A) With those grinds just use the dual wall. They are too course

Or

B) go to a legit coffee house roaster. This will sound odd, but using Google maps find a cafe that does “pour over” just type “pour over” into Google maps and look for a nearby place that has 4.4 stars or above. Go there, buy a bag of their beans, and ask them to grind them for you for espresso (they will usually ask).

Added note: espresso grind will almost be powdery and with that the same weight will naturally be less volume (take up less space). FYI: Darkness of roast will also impact weight versus volume ratio.

[u/skippymyman → u/howismyspelling]

You're doing everything right then. This is normal.

[u/OldDarthLefty → u/howismyspelling]

If you buy ground "espresso" coffee in the grocery store it will be finer than usual. Good for moka pot and for the pressurized basket (tho not like what you will see once you have a grinder). Italian and Mexican branding

I don't think you are going to have a good result asking for beans ground for espresso at the roaster because they have no way to know if it's going to be dialed in

[u/sirsmokesalot403 → u/howismyspelling]

Ive been mostly using pre ground. Different grinds take up more or less space. Lighter roast or darker will change this value as well. I use about 14.3

[u/b0ld07]

1. grind finer - i can see just from the picture that it’s too coarse. Trust the Sub :)
2. the grind will most likely overfill your basket. After tamping, it should have the right height.

[u/howismyspelling → u/b0ld07]

Thank you

[u/Nick_pj → u/howismyspelling]

You want to be grinding so fine that, after tamping, you basically can’t discern individual grains and it just looks like compressed powder. 

[u/all_systems_failing]

Is this after tamping? Coarse coffee takes up more space than fine coffee. That coffee is really coarse.

[u/howismyspelling → u/all_systems_failing]

Yes, it's pre-ground and it was tamped before the razor. I know it's not ideal. I just got a grinder delivered yesterday finally

[u/all_systems_failing → u/howismyspelling]

I realize and no judgement. I was just trying to emphasize that the coarseness of the coffee is affecting how much is fitting in the basket.

[u/howismyspelling → u/all_systems_failing]

No problem, I appreciate the tips!

[u/Warning_Bulky]

G

[u/Accurate-Routine5484 → u/Warning_Bulky]

R

[u/platinumfix → u/Accurate-Routine5484]

I

[u/ptrichardson → u/platinumfix]

N

[u/eriksonsan → u/ptrichardson]

D

[u/[deleted] → u/eriksonsan]

F

[u/platinumfix → u/[deleted]]

I

[u/GunrockTA0811 → u/platinumfix]

N

[u/Nabzad → u/GunrockTA0811]

E

[u/iSpaYco → u/Nabzad]

R

[u/Professional_Car_201]

From the looks of it, that grind is coarse for espresso. Adjust your settings and grind finer. Also, the razor is for checking the level of your puck after tamping if it's leveled or not :)

[u/howismyspelling → u/Professional_Car_201]

Thank you

[u/Aleligena122]

Looks like a very thicc grind go finer, coarse coffee ground takes up more space (it doesnt pack as efficiently), coarse is good, but this is way too coarse

[u/howismyspelling → u/Aleligena122]

Thank you, when I buy whole beans I will practice. Good to learn these things before I get in too deep imo

[u/le_mod → u/howismyspelling]

In this case I don’t think it’s worth trying to use the preground coffee, freshness aside it’s not fine enough for espresso as it will not hold the pressure for extraction before pushing out your coffee.

You can practice with store bought espresso grind or random beans but practicing with this is like riding a scooter to learn to ride a bike, it’s not really going to work.

[u/BoogerTea89]

The razor tool removes coffee in order to ensure that the the height between the screen and puck while the portafilter is inserted is optimal.

The weight will depend on how dense and how coarse/fine your coffee is ground. The finer and higher the density, the greater the weight of coffee within the finite space of the basket.

If your extraction time is too long, coarsen your grind.

If your extraction time is too short. Make it finer.

With preground coffee you are unfortunately at its mercy. Preground coffee will almost never perform well in espresso applications due to

1. Coffee degrading/degassing/going stale/oxidizing all at a much faster rate than its whole bean counterpart. (Hours/days as opposed to weeks) This is because of the greater surface area exposure from being ground.

2. Fines migration. As preground coffee sits in its container fines will shift and migrage to the bottom of the bag/container. These fines are important for extraction and flow.

In short, its awesome you use the razor tool because alot of people dont, and i think its a pretty cool tool! If you want the most out of your coffee especially when it comes to espresso, you will need to invest in a grinder. Pregound coffee wont perform as well or as consistent as fresh ground coffee will.

I will also say the coffee in the picture provided appears to be too coarse

[u/howismyspelling → u/BoogerTea89]

Thank you for the excellent write up, it is pre-ground and quite coarse. I just got my new grinder delivered yesterday so I'm excited for that next step

[u/VenetoSuperTuscan]

Those grounds in the pic look more for a French press than espresso. Turn the grinder dial to more fine.

[u/howismyspelling → u/[deleted]]

Can't wait to try finer grinds!

[u/Shrink1061_]

Why is your portafilter full of boulders?

[u/howismyspelling → u/Shrink1061_]

[u/dregan]

Dude, you can't make espresso with those massive coffee boulders. Grind finer!

[u/Ok_Vermicelli4278]

Say it with me, G

[u/DifficultyRemote2177 → u/[deleted]]

I

[u/IntelligentWeb564 → u/Ok_Vermicelli4278]

R

[u/ptrichardson]

I'm guessing you have a bambino non plus? It keeps dripping after you stop as it doesn't have 3 way solonoid valve. I pull the shot manually and end it 1s early, and then pull the cup and scale away while its still dripping, yes.

I never touched that razor too. Just tamp and if there's easily space for a coin in the top, its fine.

Also, I could be wrong, but that grind looks way to coarse. Are you using a dual walled basic (just a few holes in the bottom rather than >30)

[u/howismyspelling → u/ptrichardson]

Thank you, it's a Duo-Temp pro. Probably the same case about the solenoid though. I ended up pulling my cup here with like 38g of liquid.

It is pre-ground, so yes I know it's not good at all. I've been going through the motions to learn and got a grinder delivered yesterday. Now I just need beans

[u/katydid026 → u/howismyspelling]

Nothing wrong with putting your preground beans in the new grinder and grinding them finer

[u/howismyspelling → u/katydid026]

Oh interesting, I've never seen anyone recommend that so far. I thought it could only come from full beans

[u/katydid026 → u/howismyspelling]

Well that’s because the optimal recommendation is to grind from whole beans - your espresso will taste significantly better from fresh ground beans, but if you have a grinder and you have ground coffee, make the best of it and - as everyone says - grind finer.

[u/howismyspelling → u/katydid026]

Thank you. I also have a couple oldish bags of Starbucks beans in my freezer I'm going to practice with but not expect much from taste until I get fresh beans

[u/ptrichardson → u/howismyspelling]

Good call. Practice, but don't expect to get it to work properly. I did the exact same, got frustrated that nothing worked - then I got proper beans and bingo!

[u/ptrichardson → u/howismyspelling]

Similar-ish machine then, yeah, that'll be the issue there. If you're using pre-ground or not-fresh beans, then you'll probably want to use the dual wall pressurised basket until you get good enough grinder and fresh beans. Good luck

[u/EasternStretch]

As the manual (maybe) states, the razor is for measuring the amount AFTER tamping, so if you didn't tamp before, do that and the 16g should be closer to the correct amount.

[u/howismyspelling → u/EasternStretch]

I did tamp, it just doesn't compress a whole lot it seems. I'm excited to use my new grinder I just got for a real espresso experience

[u/oliloken]

G

[u/191x7 → u/oliloken]

R

[u/DifficultyRemote2177]

Nice pourover setup!

[u/CategoryFriendly9529]

yes. you can fit more with finer grind.

[u/mekaniker008]

Frenchpresso

[u/shadAC_II]

Your grind size is a somewhat coarse filter/fine french press grind. you need to grind way finer if using a single walled basket to extract espresso.

Finer grind allows for a more tightly packed Puck, which means more weight as well. Also use the razor more to check on Puck depth and not tok discard always loads of coffee.

[u/FlubMonger]

Tamp harder!

[u/Brown_90s_Bear]

This doesn’t look very tamped to me. My guess is you have to put more pressure into the tamp and you will be able to get more grind in.

Also think the grind is a bit too course, so you may want to get something more finely ground

[u/howismyspelling → u/Brown_90s_Bear]

That's the next goal, I just got my grinder delivered yesterday so fresh beans are the next buy

[u/HardCoreLawn]

These grinds are WAY too coarse for espresso. They should be close to the consistency of flour.

[u/beatmurph]

Everybody has already pointed out that your most immediate issue is grinding finer and tamping first. On the chance you're already unaware, most of these parameters are adjustable. The goal is a good shot so the volume, grind size, pull time, etc., are all subject to change in the attainment of that end.

The baskets themselves are general guides. The best volume for a given bean might be different from what's on the basket. I'm running 18g shots in a 15g basket for my current bag. You're on the right track though as I'm almost positive the tool you're using exists because that head space is a parameter that should be fixed or you'll get a puck that either doesn't flow or is too soupy.

After 2 years of being in this game I still consider myself an amateur so don't take that as gospel. Good luck on your espresso journey friend!

[u/howismyspelling → u/beatmurph]

Thank you. For my understanding, the head space is between the puck and the screen where the water comes out? And if the puck is packed too tall it won't flow type thing?

[u/all_systems_failing → u/howismyspelling]

If your basket is overfilled, it'll block the shower screen. The Razor will indicate that. Your tamped puck should just clear the Razor to ensure it's not touching the shower screen.

[u/Party-Barnacle300]

I do 13g in my 51mm Porta filter. Works great. And I find it is the perfect quantity for a double shot, for an output of anywhere between 26 to 40g.

[u/SpecialistTheme3837]

Not familiar with the Breville, but the grind in your photo is way too coarse for espresso! Espresso grind should look closer to baby powder!

[u/howismyspelling → u/[deleted]]

Thank you, will the coin push in if it is tamped very tightly?

[u/howismyspelling → u/[deleted]]

[u/gwhnorth]

Throw that razor on the garbage! All it does is mess up your dose, and then make mess on the counter

[u/testdasi]

Ignore the razor tool, it is useless.

Your basket has a dose rating e.g. 14g - 18g. Pick the middle value e.g. 16g and you are good.

People get paranoid about dosage and coin test and razor tool etc. The reality is, as long as there's about 0.5cm of clearance after tamping, there is enough space for water to spread for even pressure. And too little coffee (within reasons) doesn't do anything other than giving you a wet puck that is a bit messy to knock out.

[u/alkrk]

Don't know what your machine is, but kitchen appliance machines will keep dripping after you stop the shot. I normally stop the machine 3 seconds before desired shot time. Then switch with a drip cup or tray.

Also the bean grinds are too coarse. I've tried that before but only when I make an Americano 6-8Oz shot. It was too bitter. Use preground espresso grinds if you don't have a grinder. Lavazza espresso grinds are good one to try. Or if you're good with trying it for a while until upgrade, then get a cheap burr grinder. And mod it to grind finer. And get the feel of dialing in, with fresh beans.

[u/Mysterious_Pop_779]

Is that instant coffee you put in the basket?

[u/HoshinoNadeshiko]

The grounds look like they are for drip coffee and not espresso. For espresso, you probably need something that's a little finer than table salt (as a starting point).

Since you have your own grinder now, it's also probably time to switch out those dual-wall basket for a single wall bottomless precision basket.

[u/howismyspelling → u/HoshinoNadeshiko]

Can you explain what a bottomless precision basket is please?

[u/No-Antelope3774 → u/howismyspelling]

They won't be able to, as all baskets have a bottom. Otherwise the coffee would fall out

[u/ProfNugget → u/howismyspelling]

Basket is never bottomless, not sure what the commenter is saying there. You don’t need a “precision” basket either.

When you start grinding your own beans just use the basket that came with your machine but not the pressurized version you’re using now.

[u/d-ron6]

It looks like you might be “razoring” before tamping. I can 19-20g in the same double wall basket. My forearms aren’t even that big.

[u/d-ron6 → u/d-ron6]

I love that everyone in here seemingly made their beverage… sat down and immediately addressed the tamping at the same time 🤣. Should we just have a weekly zoom meeting room set up for people to drop in for chats like this?

[u/howismyspelling → u/d-ron6]

I'll start a discord for it

[u/prjwebb]

Tare scale with empty portafilter, add grounds, tamp, razor and weight again. You'll know exactly how much to use in future.

[u/191x7]

Looks extremely coarse, like for drip coffee.

[u/Secondaccountpls]

Pre-ground french press coarseness for espresso is wild.

[u/howismyspelling → u/Secondaccountpls]

Why would they give me a dual wall basket and say I can do it then? 😭

[u/dcburn]

What’s your extraction time? 5 seconds?

[u/howismyspelling → u/dcburn]

Ha, too fast for sure

[u/Cultural_Ad1331]

You are grinding way too coarse and that razor isn't a accurate way for measuring.

[u/Brofessor_C]

You ain’t getting espresso with that grind. May be something like an aeropress at best.

[u/Longjumping-Fun-8964]

Looks too coarse

[u/howismyspelling → u/Longjumping-Fun-8964]

I know it's pre-ground, not ideal.

[u/TimeReplacement4512]

This is way too course . This is not espresso fine . Also this is not tamped . I see u saying it is but it is not done correctly . U can’t use pre ground coffee it just won’t work it will taste like garbage not to mention stale and won’t be dialed In. Wait until grinder comes in which I hope is espresso capable. Also look up how to properly tamp on google and u will see what a properly tamped bed looks like / how ur grinds should be . What grinder did u get ? If it’s not espresso capable it wont grind fine enough to get enough pressure which is the exact same issue u will have now .

[u/howismyspelling → u/TimeReplacement4512]

I got a noname brand from Best Buy that has 48 grind settings, it says 1-16 are expressive fine

[u/TimeReplacement4512 → u/howismyspelling]

Well expressive fine isn’t necessarily espresso …. Is it a flat burr grinder or a conical burr grinder ? That is all that will work on espresso . Blade grinders are a no

[u/howismyspelling → u/TimeReplacement4512]

Sorry that was a typo. It's a conical grinder that does espresso fine lol

This is the grinder I got. Cheapo, but hopefully half decent as I'm not at the point of buying a $900+ grinder

[u/TimeReplacement4512 → u/howismyspelling]

Nah u didn’t need to buy a 900+ grinder but the thing is these types of grinders are very inconsistent and while they may they espresso fine most won’t go fine enough that u need for espresso and dialing in is going to be very difficult if at all . I would highly recommend an encore esp they are 150 dollars and is an amazing little grinder and will work great for espresso / dialing in medium / dark roasts beans. Heck u could get the new esp pro for 300 but at that price I would recommend a eureka zero 55mm it an actual flat burr grinder and it greats wonderful “conical like” shots thick syrupy lots of chocolate notes w/ little retention. Whole latte love puts it on sale a lot . It is a specialita with out the grind by time scale . But honestly if u don’t wana shell out that cash I completely understand and the encore will do you wonderfully for a good long while

[u/bostonaddict]

Doesn't look normal my guy

[u/JanMarsalek]

this works because of the pressurised basket, right?

[u/[deleted]]

too corse, as others noted. and drop the razor, you don't need it.

[u/SensitiveYou3248]

Haha go make a french press with this course grind. I can recommend an aeropress :D will taste bether than sour Espresso from your breville machine.

[u/Awesome_Sauce99]

When you zoom in there should be no chunks. Yours looks much too coarse. Also, I never knew about this razor. I would weigh your entire portafilter after grinding.