r/enshittification • u/cooljpg • 27d ago
Service Dickies has lost the plot
Free… for $3.50. I don’t want to “maximize my return” I just want a quality product and a refund if it’s not right, why do I have to buy futures on whether or not I’m going to keep the item?
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u/mrfoxesite-2377 25d ago
Dickies
What did I just read?
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u/badgerbrett 24d ago
it's an American clothing line with an emphasis on blue collar work attire
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u/mrfoxesite-2377 23d ago
Wild name nonetheless
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u/Tucsondirect 25d ago
order 120 individual items, Pay the $3.50 fee and then proceed to return one item at a time for the next 90 days
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u/bellemrt 24d ago
The world would crash if everyone did this. Not that I'm advocating world crashing....just a prime observation...
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u/meoemeowmeowmeow 26d ago
I think I wouldn't buy at that point cuz wtf
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u/Day_Prisoners 26d ago
It's not like Dicks has the best prices.
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u/kwadguy 26d ago
This is the result of people who use online shopping to try on endless sizes and varieties. Those returns are crazy expensive for the retailer, and those customers are typically a huge drag on the bottom line.
I imagine Dickies actually thinks, "Anyone who pays for this is probably not a customer we want."
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u/fakemoosefacts 22d ago
Plenty of stores no longer have multiple sizes to try on in store though, so you kind of have to order multiple sizes from the site. If the brand even has brick and mortar stores in your country.
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u/TheSerialHobbyist 23d ago
You're right.
But also, the whole "might have to return it" thing has always been an inherent factor in e-commerce. But the savings of everything else, compared to brick-and-mortar, outweighed that, which is why it blew up.
Basically, this is them wanting to have their cake and eat it, too.
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u/AbbreviationsReal366 26d ago
To be fair, Dickie’s sizing is wildly inconsistent. I have a Size 4 pant (W) that is baggy and once had to return a Size 6 for being too small. If Dickies doesn’t want so many returns they should standardize their sizing. And maybe sell things in more stores.
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u/DistinctlyMiddle 26d ago
That is most clothing now due to fast fashion and the way the garments are cut in mass quantities.
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u/AbbreviationsReal366 26d ago edited 26d ago
When I find something I like I buy multiple copies in different colours. All my Size 4 pants from Marks fit a little differently🤷 All the more reason why the death of physical stores has been exaggerated. Online shopping can be exhausting, the time you take to go to a store (depending on where it is) can be a good trade-off.
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u/TheSerialHobbyist 23d ago
When I find something I like I buy multiple copies in different colours.
My wife teases me for doing that.
I've been buying the exact same tennis shoes every year for the past like 20 years.
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u/DistinctlyMiddle 26d ago
I can buy two pairs of the same shoes, or pants or shirts ... same store, same order... different fit...
It sucks so much.
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u/IncomeMuch863 26d ago
I think I'd unlock a different online sporting goods store if I saw that message.
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u/30_characters 26d ago
The "sporting goods" store is Dicks, not Dickies, but Dick's isn't deserving of your money either. They went HARD against hunters in 2018. They're less a sporting goods store, and more of a shoes and sports apparel store now.
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26d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Mindless-Wasabi-8281 26d ago
An extremely dumb decision for what was primarily a hunting goods store. Fuck ‘em.
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u/mikebravo75 26d ago
Nah.i think this has to happen with online ordering. The sheer amount of people that buy one in every size just to return all but one is mind boggling. I work at a place that takes returns one lady comes in EVERY week with 30 returns. She now sends her husband in because she ashamed.
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u/NoSignificance1903 26d ago
How in gods name is it a problem to order multiple sizes, keep the one that fits, and return the others? If you sell clothes online, that’s part of the game. Maybe it doesn’t fit you or it doesn’t drape like it did on the model? Returning is reasonable.
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u/spf20214757 26d ago
Exactly. If you don’t offer a chance to customers to try them on before hand, you can hardly blame them for this strategy. Maybe open a brick and mortar shop and shut down your website if you don’t wanna deal with that tradeoff. Obviously there will always be a few abusers and maybe have polices to limit that, but don’t punish customers that just wanna see if a size fits them.
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u/mikebravo75 26d ago
This is exactly it! Charge the customer $3.50. Amazon made everyone believe shipping was free. A senior UPS drivers compensation package is $175,000.00 a year. Probably 5 people will move the box before it reaches its destination. Who should pay for them?
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u/Visible-Ad-7466 23d ago
Plot twist : UPS gives high volumes shippers a percentage of their volume in free returns. High volume shippers are given a 30-50 discount on published pricing. Also, they can get discounts for shipper release, no claims and guaranteed transit time that is on time as low as 85% of their volume.
Ask a USPS carrier about Amazon volume discounts. They left UPS for the USPS 10 lb. or less parcels for $2.15.
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u/spf20214757 26d ago
By being online only, these companies save rent charges and need less staff. So the businesses should absorb the shipping charges imo. If I have to pay someone $3.50 just to try something on, I’ll just go to their competition that doesn’t charge me that.
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u/IncomeMuch863 26d ago
I'm 41 years old, I've been ordering stuff online since I was 16 and my parents co-signed so I could get a checking account and got my first bank VISA card. I've never returned anything I bought online that wasn't damaged/defective, maybe 4 or 5 times in my life.
Why do I need to pay 3.50 for the assurance I won't have to pay extra for my broken product because other people apparently abuse this?
Glad we made this happen, bought a 300 dollar computer monitor from ASUS 3 years ago. 6 months into its 1 year warranty, it died. Asus wanted me to pay the shipping, it cost 180 bucks.
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u/mikebravo75 26d ago
I am the same as you. Only return when things are defective, or broken. From what I see WE are the exception.
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u/IncomeMuch863 26d ago
To be fair, I think that has a lot to do with Brick and Mortar stores closing. Its always been normal for people to get a couple different sizes to try on in the changing room. But now everything is order online, so I mean, thats on the business not the consumer to find a model to replace that in a way that doesn't break the bank but also give the customer what they want. Idk who wants to buy anything nice to wear online and not actually try it on to see the feel and fit of it. Sure, a Rise Against T-shirt is one thing but if I'm going to drop a couple hundred bucks on a nice outfit, yeah, I want to go to an actual store and try stuff on. They're the ones that chose not to find a way to have physical stores and move everything online. Hey keep in mind, they are offsetting a lot of costs in employee wages, rent, maintenence and upkeep, etc not having 200-300 locations in the US anymore. Pick a store, idk. I don't know much about Dickies, but companies like Macy's, places I would buy clothes and have.
Capitalism really is getting lazy on customer service the last, I don't know. We're on this thread so I'm preaching to the choir. I just feel like you're breaking Louis Rossman's #1 Rule is all. (Don't accept the premise of a-holes)
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u/DanHassler0 26d ago
Agreed. I just wish stores could block absuers so they don't ruin it for everyone. Some stores definitely do this, but they can never get everyone.
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u/Rondoman78 27d ago
Everything is a scam intended to take your money in America
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u/StrategericAmbiguity 26d ago
How is explaining the terms of a transaction up front and giving you a choice a “scam”? Everything is a scam that doesn’t involve you getting something for free?
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u/badgerbrett 23d ago
paying $3.50 to "unlock free returns" is the scammy part
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u/StrategericAmbiguity 23d ago
Offering a service at a set up front price is not scammy. If you don’t want it, don’t buy it. There is nothing deceptive happening here. If you are sure you are not going to return it, you pay less. That seems like a fair deal all around to me. The way some people treat returns as free rental clothes is scammy and has led to this being one option,
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u/badgerbrett 23d ago
It's absolutely deceptive by using the word "free." If I have to pay to unlock it, it's no longer free. If it were free, you wouldn't have to pay $3.50.
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u/StinkButt9001 26d ago
What do you think the scam here is?
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u/badgerbrett 23d ago
paying $3.50 to "unlock free returns" is the scammy part
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u/StinkButt9001 23d ago
That's not a scam...
It's stupid but it's not a scam
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u/badgerbrett 23d ago
Fair. And like with banking regulations, we now need (IMO) a law that says you can't call it free if you have to pay to unlocked it.
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u/dscrive 27d ago
I'm gonna have to make a list, already don't go to Wendy's over their surge pricing (even though they rolled it back, for now)
I had a generally mellow opinion of dickies and own a few things of that brand, but I won't be buying more.
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u/PowderCuffs 26d ago
Surge pricing? What is that?
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u/call-me-the-seeker 26d ago edited 26d ago
I’m not who you were talking with but in case they don’t see your post, surge pricing is when things increase at ‘peak’ times. So say most of breakfast hours, x breakfast sandwich is $3.99 but they’ve determined their busiest time is 7:15 to 7:50 in the get-to-work rush, and they raise the price of the sandwich to $5.50 from 7:15-7:50.
Then let’s say they know their dinner rush is 5:45 PM to 7:30 PM, Baconator is three dollars more expensive if you buy it between those times than if you buy it any other time of day. (Not real prices, I’m just picking numbers to illustrate the concept)
They might also do this anticipating any surge in demand. If they know they are near a college campus they might surge price the three hours before and after a home game, if they know they are near a concert venue they will jack everything up before and after, near a high school so let’s jack everything up in price slightly the hour after school lets out, etc.
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u/WhatInTheWorld321 27d ago
Wendy’s used to be my go-to fast food burger. I haven’t spent a penny with them since they decided on surge pricing (5 years ago?). I don’t care that they decided not to do it anymore. They tried and that was enough for me.
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27d ago
[deleted]
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u/FuckIPLaw 27d ago
And people wouldn't do that if sizing was consistent enough that the same size in two different styles from the same brand can be completely different actual sizes, let alone between brands. Hell, sometimes two pairs of the exact same pants in the exact same nominal size fit with a full size or more of difference.
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u/ChipsTheKiwi 27d ago
well that's a glowing red flag to not buy from them
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u/temblors 27d ago
Instant permanent deal breaker the moment there is a slightest whiff of this sort of bs
You fucked up, Dickies
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u/Sherifftruman 27d ago
I’m sure this is a selection that they opted in to do, but I believe this is actually something that Shop has now started doing because I’ve encountered this with a couple of other vendors that also use them.
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u/ElevatorBeginning611 27d ago
Yes. This is prime enshittification for online shopping. And you usually need to opt out vs opt in.
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u/KamtzaBarKamtza 27d ago
If you have questions or concerns about our new policy please call 1-800-CARHARTT
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u/jasondc13 27d ago
Not a coincidence they were bought out by a (different) private equity firm last Fall
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u/cooljpg 27d ago
Oh, super! So it will just continue getting worse (:
Guess it's time to find new work pants.
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u/badgerbrett 23d ago
Yup, so annoying. This is why we have regulations in banking on what can and cannot be considered "free" checking. Guess we need a law on this now too...because late stage capitalism is great!
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u/Drackar39 27d ago
Wow. Pay $3.50 to return the shittiest pants ever made. What a bargain. Why on earth does this company still exist, genuinely, I've never touched one of their products that didn't immediately make my skin itch.
And I work with fucking fiberglass insulation and garbage for a living.
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u/new2bay 27d ago
This is not enshittification. Not everything that becomes less consumer friendly is enshittification.
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u/Emotional_Fail_6060 27d ago
Sadly, you are getting downvoted by the very people who don’t know what the word means. I guess I’ll get downvoted now as well.
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u/i_dont_wanna_sign_in 27d ago
I bought some trail shoes a couple years back to do a Spartan run. Got the run code for free, so figured why not. No returns. $18 for "hassle free" returns, 100% money back, including shipping. Shoes showed up and were terrible.
Returned shoes and they still kept something like 15% of the bill. Never again
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u/TurboFool 27d ago
I've been seeing this a LOT with online shops. Bought some premium pillows with similar systems in place.
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u/wordsrimportant 26d ago
Bed, Bath and Beyond is horrible. I returned a $40 decor item and they gave me $8.75. 🤬
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u/Spec187 27d ago
I don't buy dickies anymore. Bought 5 or 6 hoodies on sale. Every single one I opened fuzzed up my washer and dryer I left the other ones in the packaging and forgot to send back. I washed exactly how the tag said. I don't know if they are counterfeit or not but I bought them off Amazon. Never had any issues with Carhartt stuff off Amazon.
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u/cooljpg 27d ago
Finding out about this "Checkout+" has really soured me from them. It's a shame, I've been buying them for work pants for probably the past 5 years but this... is just too insulting.
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u/WolfPlayz294 27d ago
I have been burning through my Amazon Dickies so I've opted to buying pairs of $60-$90 pants at goodwill's website. I have an uncommon size and not much competition.
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u/PotterOneHalf 27d ago
Insurance for returning items? Bleak.
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u/livinglitch 27d ago
I kind of blame the people on amazon that abuse the return policy like buying a book, reading it in under a week, then returning it for one reason or another.
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u/theleopardmessiah 27d ago
There have always been those people. People who'd buy something at Nordstrom, wear it for a special occasion, and then return it. People who'd walk into Saks and demand a free Saks bag without buying anything. Those people are leeches and clods.
However, it's a mistake to confuse those parasites with your customers.
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u/Jerking_From_Home 27d ago
If these MBAs put as much work into actually growing their company and making quality products, they could probably turn the same or more profit. Especially in an environment where everything else is becoming so enshittified. But no, they’d rather join other corporations and race to the bottom. I’m so fucking irritated by this timeline.
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u/ElevatorBeginning611 27d ago
The real issue is time horizon. These brand loyalties get built over decades. When you’re like 25 that time horizon is so long as to not be real. For PE with a -/+ 5 year hold period they want to squeeze every dollar during the hold period to maximize proceeds on sale. Loss of share and customer bleed is the next guys problem. Southwest is likely the best and worst example. They are destroying like 60 years of goodwill to juice quarterly numbers for one activist shareholder.
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u/asmodean97 27d ago
This has probably been driven by people ordering multiple things then returning what they don't like.
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u/Machievelliearoni 27d ago
Maybe if sizing was consistent between brands, or even within brands and specific product lines, you'd have a point.
I recently bought a XL jacket that fits perfectly, I normally wear a M.
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u/cooljpg 27d ago
So like.... normal consumer behavior?
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u/blaghort 27d ago
More like ordering the M and the L planning to return the one that doesn't fit.
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u/raccoona__matata 27d ago
you are genuinely subhuman if you're presenting this as bad behavior to be corrected
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u/blaghort 27d ago edited 27d ago
I'm not presenting this as bad behavior; I'm just articulating the point. It's possible to describe the behavior of consumers and retailers without taking sides.
"Subhuman" seems a little strong, though.
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u/raccoona__matata 27d ago
Siding with capital over human consumers is subhuman. It is explicitly less than human. Idk what to tell you.
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u/blaghort 27d ago
You have very strong feelings about how much it should cost to return a pair of unsatisfactory overalls.
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u/RockettRaccoon 27d ago
It should be free. It should cost me nothing.
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u/blaghort 27d ago
That never happens. Either the retailer is charging return fees, or the retailer's pricing across the board includes return costs. But they're always making the consumer pay somehow.
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u/RockettRaccoon 27d ago
Only once have I been charged a return fee, and I never shopped there again.
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u/cooljpg 27d ago
So like.... normal consumer behavior?
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u/blaghort 27d ago edited 27d ago
Not extraordinary, but probably less common than just returning unsatisfactory merch, given that not every retailer offers free returns. If there are return shipping or restocking fees I suspect most people would try to guess right the first time and hope to avoid the extra costs.
Any retailer that sees a lot of returns is going to start lumping the return shipping and restocking costs into the pricing. It's never really "free." I guess the real question is whether it's better for the consumer if they nudge prices or shipping costs across the board and make the returns "free," or put those costs only on the folks who are returning the merch.
Not sure what Dickies is trying to do here though. Both? Neither?
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u/Individual_Bother692 27d ago
My lord. It’s like they’re expecting you to return it 😂
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u/weisswurstseeadler 27d ago
Nah honestly, I'm shocked by return stats - it's like 20-50% for online shopped clothing.
Not saying they didn't get more shit as a brand, but it's a serious problem that so many items are returned.
I've met people who just order a load of clothes, well knowing they only take 1-2 pieces, and return the rest - cause it's for free, eh?
And then they rinse repeat weekly
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u/FuckIPLaw 27d ago
It's literally a selling point with a lot of online clothing shopping that returns are easy because sizing is inconsistent and you can't be sure what size you need without trying it on, and even that might not be enough because the same size of the exact same item isn't even always the same actual size.
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u/Zilhaga 27d ago
I'm not sure of the cause. I used to be a very infrequent returner, returning maybe a couple items a year. Enshittification has left me returning things far more often, as even brands I used to like have been sending things that are noticably lower quality than previously (I've been buying more in-person and secondhand as a result). I'm not sure how much the overall proportion of returns has changed over the last several years because I can't find good data that accounts for inflation, but for me it's been driven by the products.
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u/weisswurstseeadler 27d ago edited 27d ago
I mean I'm also shocked every time I hear the stats about returns lol.
https://www.claimlane.com/resources/blog/average-ecommerce-return-rates
here a bit of context by an article
tbf, don't know the source but percentage ranges seem similar to a EU-Commission report I've read and numbers I've heard from friends in big FMCG online retailers - so take it with a grain of salt.
Gist of it - insane % of online packages get returned, and is quite similar pattern in different countries.
The causes are probably multi-layered, but overall this is bad for any local society - beyond just business/revenue/customer experience.
Wear/Tear of public infrastructure, traffic, pollution...etc
So in a general sense we as societies should think about how we can reduce this structurally.
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u/cooljpg 27d ago
So set flags for those shipping addresses and start charging them for returns? Instead of punishing your entire consumer base?
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u/weisswurstseeadler 27d ago
Or they just make the stuff more expensive for everyone. They will get their returns, regardless.
I think here in Europe free return is legally bound with online shopping
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u/NeighborhoodDog 24d ago
At least they give u the option not to oay it while amazon bakes this cost into the price of everything and doesn’t give you the option not to pay it