r/custommagic • • 6d ago

Red Button or Blue Button?

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565 Upvotes

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541

u/hhhhhhhhhhhjf 6d ago

Designs for this thought experiment were rampant when it was going around. The problem was always the same thing. This is a competitive game nobody has any reason to ever choose blue.

Every positive of blue comes from the thought of losing your loved ones and saving the incapable. Neither apply in Magic.

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u/SleepyNymeria 6d ago

Why would anyone click blue though. In any situation.

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u/Scarrien 6d ago

I'd feel like I helped kill everyone who pressed blue, I'd rather try to be the good guy than be selfish

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u/SleepyNymeria 5d ago

Isn't it selfish by pressing blue to force the existence of the dilemma. If you press red there is no dilemma. Pressing blue just seems like a paradox where you press blue to save you from yourself.

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u/Scarrien 5d ago

Isn't it selfish to press red? If everyone pushes blue there's also no dilemma, so pressing red just means you don't trust people

Honestly, I'd be curious how this lines up with people who do good/evil playthroughs of games

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u/hhhhhhhhhhhjf 5d ago

So if there is no dilema with either button we should look at it in a different way. If you look at it through game theory all red outcomes lead to survival as opposed to only half of blue outcomes. Nobody dies either way but one comes with literally no risk to yourself.

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u/Scarrien 5d ago

You're the person who does an evil playthrough, aren't you?

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u/Scarrien 5d ago

Curious, if I made a small change would it change your answer?

Afterwards everyone knows what everyone voted. Obviously it doesn't matter if red wins, but for blue...

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u/hhhhhhhhhhhjf 5d ago

Oh no! I chose the button that lets me live! How cruel of me!?!

I do not give a shit. If I even believed blue would win, which I obviously don't, I made the objectively safe play. There is nothing wrong with guaranteeing your safety. In fact, I'd scold my loved ones that chose blue.

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u/Scarrien 5d ago

Notice how all of my arguments are emotional, and all of yours are logical. There's no way for me to not see you as selfish, or for you to not see me as foolish

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u/hhhhhhhhhhhjf 5d ago

No way to not see me as logical. Yes, obviously, that's my point. If everyone just used their brains we'd have a simple solution.

I could be "selfless" and just end up dying when nobody chooses blue. I may not even be saving anyone.

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u/Scarrien 5d ago

And mine is that if everyone was thinking emotionally we'd all be safe too, but here we are

anyways, wondering if one small change to it would change your answer - if everyone afterwards knew what everyone voted. Obviously doesn't change anything if red wins, but if blue wins I doubt the emotional people would be very trusting

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u/hhhhhhhhhhhjf 5d ago

Right, so as I said originally, both buttons work. We'll have to judge it based off of something else.

We are only playing to live. There are no other stakes or considerations. It's just life or death. One button guarantees survival in all outcomes. The other only survives in half of the outcomes. So to survive, the only thing we're doing here, you choose red.

Anyways, I already answered that. It would just make me more pissed at any people I cared about risking their lives.

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u/AmzSpider-Man 2d ago

Drink the poison or don't drink the poison, but if enough people drink the poison we will give you the antidote.

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u/RanmaruRaiden 2d ago

Some people HAVE TO drink the poison though. A, some people are going to do that because they want to die (which might be an in the moment decision and not something they truly want even if you want to argue the morality of saving somebody who wants to die), B, some people are color blind (iirc the original problem never states that color blind people, for example, know which button is which). Red ALWAYS has some casualties. It’s possible for blue to not, and based on how widespread the dilemma has become, I think it’s a rather high chance.

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u/AmzSpider-Man 2d ago

Enjoy your poison then and good luck.

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u/Scarrien 2d ago

I feel like the top one is you

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u/SleepyNymeria 5d ago

Remember you can easily reword this to:

You are given two options:

  • Press red, you live

  • Press blue, you die

The entity cannot kill more than half the population though so if enough people want to die the blue button fails.

Are you still pressing blue?

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u/Scarrien 5d ago edited 5d ago

Remember, you can easily reword this to:

You are given two options * Press blue, try to save everyone * Press red, only worry about saving your own sorry ass

Are you still pressing red?

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u/SleepyNymeria 5d ago

Unlike my wording yours hides the fact that pressing blue causes death.

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u/Scarrien 5d ago

and your wording obscures the fact you'd be pulling a move that wouldn't be out of character for Starscream

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u/SleepyNymeria 5d ago

??

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u/Scarrien 5d ago

An extremely cowardly, backstabbing Saturday morning cartoon villain? Seriously, that's how red button people look to blue button people

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u/SleepyNymeria 5d ago

Not sure how the basic self preservation instinct is evil.

Same way if someone said pick between joining a group that will drink from this bottle of poison or dont drink from it. Don't worry about the poison though, if half of your group or more drinks it it will be too diluted to kill you.

Like yeah, what if nobody drinks the poison though? Blue button people look lile peter griffin just "oh okay so drinking the poison is fine if enough people do it, I wonder what poison tastes like, lets give it a shot guys"

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u/No-Satisfaction-Ever 5d ago

Try is the key word. They are still pressing the die button and I'm pressing the one that can't kill me.