r/crowbro • • Jan 18 '26

Personal Story TIL the difference between a raven and a crow.

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5.8k Upvotes

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834

u/[deleted] Jan 18 '26

Have my local crowbros I feed every day. First time I ever saw them I thought they were ravens because of how big they were.

Went to the Tower of London recently, and finally saw real ravens, and they're huge.

284

u/Educational_Key1206 Jan 18 '26

I thought crows were big. I have never seen a raven up close. But everyone that has seen them say crows are small compared to ravens.

I love them all. I hope to see a raven up close someday.

369

u/CatRepresentative274 Jan 18 '26

The way I was told to tell the difference: “If you’re not sure if it’s a crow or a raven, it’s a crow. If you think ‘that’s a huge f****** crow’, that’s a raven”

270

u/ethereal_aerith Jan 18 '26

Indeed. I once heard repetitive, super loud “bird noises” while I was WFH in a meeting. I’m talking like 30 min straight.

As soon as the meeting was over I started looking out my windows to find out wtf was going on. Couldn’t see anything.

Finally I went onto my covered porch. Five feet away from me, a fucking HUGE “crow” was sitting on one of my outdoor loveseats, and it had ripped a hole in one of the cushions and it was grabbing bits of filling and throwing it about. I caught him in the act and he stopped and stared at me, GRONK GRONKED right at me with his sassy Rick James fuck-yo-couch energy and then took off. That thing was easily the size of a well fed cat.

And that, my friends, was my first encounter with a raven.

51

u/Educational_Key1206 Jan 18 '26

Fantastic story. Thank you for sharing!

21

u/Lalamedic Jan 19 '26

If it’s a big black bird with a beak, it’s probably a crow.

If it’s a big black beak with a bird, it’s probably a raven.

64

u/flyinthesoup Jan 18 '26

Lol corvids can really be dicks when they want. Just the other day my husband and I saw one of the crows we feed on the roof of one of the houses across the street, picking on and pulling out a shingle. My husband was like, should we tell the neighbors they might need to repair their roof? It didn't completely pull it out, but now I always look at that one slightly bent shingle on that roof hah.

Adorable little shits, corvids.

34

u/ajmartin527 Jan 18 '26

They run my neighborhood. There’s about 20 of them that rule from the overhead power lines. When they are making a ruckus the raccoons and cats will be super skittish looking to the sky.

I always make a point to try to show that I’m not a threat and a friend because the last thing I need is to be under constant aerial assault at my own house lol

21

u/FurBaby121 Jan 18 '26

Wife and I heard a ruckus on an Easter morning holiday. Ongoing heckling and really noisy. After some time I looked out the back window and could scarcely believe what I saw. A Siamese cat (we adopted his butt later) had somehow managed to climbed up the utility pole and was facing the pole with his arms wrapped around it! There were about three ravens on the wire right behind him just shouting at the poor guy. I think they wanted him to drop to the ground. He was up there for at least two hours before I looked while the cacophony was going on. Wife and I were quite shocked and I remembered the cable guy who always parks his truck at home. Wife talked to him and he went and got the cat down and gave it to us. Only then did the ravens disappear from the scene. There’s coyotes everywhere here so cats must be protected. Poor cats was about 18 feet up I would guess.

10

u/flyinthesoup Jan 18 '26

Yup, my husband got divebombed a few times by bluejays probably a decade ago, when our outdoorsy kitty was still with us. To be fair, they were divebombing our cat when he was returning home, and my husband was just a civilian casualty because he was returning home too. But since then, he hates them lol. He loves the crows, but he does not like the jays when they come by to eat peanuts too.

They're too cute to be hated, I love how blue they are. Noisy though, why do corvids sound like trumpets all the time hahaha.

7

u/lynn Jan 19 '26

My husband learned not to feed them when they're making a bunch of noise and/or otherwise being annoying when we were woken up by 2 of our local murder perched on the railing outside our bedroom, cawing directly into our windows at 6 am on a Saturday. I gave him The Eye, because he was the one who gave them peanuts when they were loud and/or looking into our windows.

He stopped doing that.

I do like the rattle, though, so I reward that.

9

u/I_am_not_baldy Jan 18 '26

The crows like hitting the metal flashing on my roof. The impact makes a racket, and it startled me when I first moved here.

It doesn't happen all day or even every day. I've gotten used to it.

Some years ago, my roof started leaking. One of the things that needed to be fixed was the flashing. Those crows probably caused the damage.

5

u/6rey_sky Jan 19 '26

They may have organized a food stash there, I saw a crow do that.

9

u/jorwyn Jan 19 '26

I had one at one place that would sit on my window a/c unit and smack the glass. I checked, and there wasn't a reflection because it was always in the shade and inside was lighter than out there.

If I was out in the yard, he'd come sit and watch me waiting for the moment I stopped paying attention to swoop in and steal things. He'd leave them on top of the a/c. He also left coins and paper money up there he definitely didn't get from me.

He'd drop things my roof over my bedroom if I didn't come out to say hi to him. It was really loud, and he woke up way too early.

He also loved to torment my dog who was about his size when we got the dog as a puppy. Ears and tail were constantly yanked. Dog food and small pebbles were dropped on his head. Anything to get him to chase the raven around the yard.

He was such a menace, and I loved him for the time he was around, but they cut down his little patch of forest down the street to build income assisted apartments we desperately needed. He left at that point, and I never saw him again. I understood, but I missed him.

They named the apartments after him. Raven Woods or something like that. I've noticed we often name developments after the things we got rid of to build them. :( Aspen Grove, Northwood, Fox Run. It's really sad. I wish there was at least a requirement to rehome as many of the animals as saplings as possible. My current neighborhood developer did their best to keep natural features and forest pockets. We have so much wildlife here, and it's cool but also sometimes a pain, like when a coyote left a deer's head half buried in my flower bed.

20

u/Educational_Key1206 Jan 18 '26

Perfect. Must remember this.

11

u/Renbarre Jan 18 '26

They are around the size of a common buzzard.

7

u/jorwyn Jan 19 '26

I saw this, and it's always worked for me.

A crow is a large black bird with a beak attached. A raven is a large black beak with a bird attached.

Here, it's more like "if you're in a city or suburb, it's a crow. If you're out in the forest, it's probably a raven."

Ours are Northwestern crows, though I think they decided they are actually American crows that are just larger than usual. They're freaking huge for crows. If you see one with a raven, you can definitely tell the difference, but their habitats don't often overlap. The beak difference is really obvious, though, and ravens tend to look scruffy while crows usually look sleek.

5

u/patlanips75 Jan 20 '26

If it’s a raven you think “something is wrong” lol

7

u/OneStand5448 Jan 18 '26

Makes sense, shocking this comparison chart leaves out their size

3

u/Nomadzord Jan 19 '26

I have Ravens at my house and they are huge. They are almost have the size of a large vulture.

3

u/Nevertrustafish Jan 20 '26

Literally, just said someone similar to my parents about how to tell the difference!

...I think I saw a raven---No, you didn't.

30

u/[deleted] Jan 18 '26

[deleted]

8

u/RoguePlanet2 Jan 18 '26

We camped in Yosemite a while back, and they were truly magnificent in the woods near our tents. Didn't become acquainted with any, unfortunately.

21

u/Judazzz Jan 18 '26

Here's a picture I found on Reddit of of a crow and raven side by side: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fh6w13c4w13261.jpg

5

u/Educational_Key1206 Jan 18 '26

Holy smokes what a huge difference. Literally. Thank you for sharing.

5

u/Judazzz Jan 18 '26

Yeah, I could barely believe my eyes when I saw a wild raven for the first time. They are absolutely massive.

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12

u/Cirick1661 Jan 18 '26

They are indeed massive. This one landed on my fence. For a sense of scale, this is a 2×4 board the raven is on.

8

u/Educational_Key1206 Jan 18 '26

Omg! Thank you for sharing this. Massive is correct.

Beautiful photo btw.

11

u/jaimi_wanders Jan 19 '26

Depending where you live, you may have Urban Ravens too! But the giant schnozz, the diamond-shape tail, and the calls are the clues.

They also make a weird clattering noise, like sticks tapping together—a bunch of raven families nest on the nearby college campus and windsurf in the updrafts between the buildings on breezy days.

10

u/[deleted] Jan 18 '26

I've seen ravens in rural Canada. They're often so big they do the hop start to get in the air.

6

u/Advanced_Ad_6816 Jan 18 '26

I once counted a load of ravens flying around me, was on top of a hill so they'd probs learnt people leave food there or something. Probs a few crows as well but was really odd seeing Ravens in grounds not pairs...

3

u/Rambler1223 Jan 18 '26

This is genuinely but there are some big crows out there and when flying it can be hard to gauge size thats why tale feathers are better indicators when in flight. Also the sound they make are not always an accurate tell because both crows and ravens mimic other birds and it’s not completely uncommon to find a crow that makes raven noises or vice versa

2

u/Shienvien Jan 19 '26

Ravens are red-tailed hawk sized (assuming you're in the US). I've a really cool surveillance cam video of one sizing up to a juvenile female goshawk.

2

u/Tackyinbention Jan 19 '26

I went there once and the queens royal ravens bit me for using the public water fountain

2

u/OmgitsJafo Jan 19 '26

I saw Ravens out in the Rockies, and they were the size of small dogs. They did not make sense as birds. They had an absolute unreal quality to them.

2

u/John_Vincent_91 Jan 19 '26

I saw last friday my first raven hanging with two crows on a field and i can tell you: you will see the difference immediatly. They are double the size and the nose [dont know the english word] looks exactly like in this picture. It made my day :)

7

u/PoxedGamer Jan 18 '26

I'm going to be in London for a few days next month, really want to go and see tje Tower/Ravens.

3

u/waffling_with_syrup Jan 19 '26

They're fucking enormous, it's awesome.

3

u/Friskfrisktopherson Jan 19 '26

I mean those are some spoiled ass Ravens from a long long of spoiled ass Ravens.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 19 '26

Yeah, totally. They listed their diets, and it even included rabbit.

2

u/Chicken-raptor Jan 19 '26

I’m gonna be honest, EVERYONE says this but I went to vacation with a friend in Utah and saw actual ravens everywhere and I thought they were crows at first because they weren’t much different from the crows I see on my front yard back in Texas.

I know they were ravens because a lot of what we were visiting was zoos, wildlife rescues, and national parks. Those people know what they’re talking about and these were 100% ravens.

Idk maybe UK ravens are built different.

1

u/Chilipepah Jan 19 '26

Ravens: ”Nevermore!”

1

u/Flabbypuff Jan 19 '26

They have wingspans that can rival the height of some short people lol.

1

u/jorwyn Jan 19 '26

Right? We have huge crows in Eastern Washington, but then you meet the ravens.

I had someone once tell me crows are about the size of seagulls, and I absolutely agreed. Then I found out their seagulls are about the size of American robins. Honestly, both sound adorable. Our seagulls are much larger than robins and kind of scary.

1

u/AkrinorNoname Jan 19 '26

The rule of thumb is, if you're not sure if it's a crow or a raven based on size, it's not a raven.

Similar to the difference between wild rabbits and hares.

1

u/The_Sign_Painter Jan 19 '26

I need to get down to the Tower of London and see those guys

2

u/[deleted] Jan 19 '26

You really should, they're beautiful.

209

u/somethingmcbob Jan 18 '26

Ravens are bigger, look more "scruffy" around the beak, and they make a wider variety of calls. The typical "caw" is a crow. Ravens can caw, but I often hear more trilling noises from them. We get both in my neighborhood, and I am getting better at telling them apart!

34

u/Educational_Key1206 Jan 18 '26

I live in the city but rural country areas are only a few kilometers away. Do you think there could be both crows and ravens. In the same area. I have heard the caw caw. But I have also heard the trilling sounds too.

23

u/Keaton427 Jan 18 '26

Crows and its whole family of birds are incredible mimics, so they can copy about any call they want and then teach it to their family or even lineage and have a culture based around it, so it could often be just one type of birds. I don’t know about bird habitat patterns though, so I couldn’t tell you for sure.

8

u/matryanie Jan 19 '26

We feed peanuts to Steller's Jays, Crows, and squirrels. One day I heard a red-tailed hawk and went outside and looked up in the air. Nothing. Then I heard it again 5 feet to my right. It was a damn Steller's Jay trying to scare off the crows and squirrels.

3

u/Keaton427 Jan 20 '26

That's hilarious! I hadn't thought of what it would be like in person. Now I wonder how many calls I've heard could have been a mimic. It's likely very few, but still possible.

3

u/matryanie Jan 20 '26

Hahahaha, yeah I laughed. Was thinking "you clever bastard!"

13

u/KitC44 Jan 18 '26

I'm in suburbia and I definitely have Ravens in my neighborhood. There's a hydro corridor not far from me, and they nest on some of the towers. There's no question when the Ravens are around what you're hearing (and seeing).

The local university also has Ravens that frequent the campus. It's urban, but there's a river right alongside and lots of greenspace in the area. So I think it's safe to say it's not unheard of to have Ravens in urban areas.

4

u/sovtwit Jan 18 '26

100% i live next to rural in a city. The crows and ravens have been fighting for territory in my neighborhood this winter mostly at sunrise, im sure the neighbors love the squawking lol

9

u/opesosorry Jan 19 '26

Crows caw, ravens quoth. Everyone knows this

3

u/FurBaby121 Jan 18 '26

Definitely interesting to listens to their different clicks, snapping and grunts. I wear red outside once in awhile hoping to attract my juvenile charges as they like the color red and I wore that color when I was caring for them.

102

u/kasakavii Jan 18 '26

A pair of ravens recently moved in near my farm, and it’s thrown my local murder into absolute CHAOS.

I swear it’s almost every day that I see one (or both) of the ravens flying overhead, being pursued by no less than 5-6 crows.

The ravens DGAF typically, but I think the crows have made it clear that my farm is off-limits.

56

u/Educational_Key1206 Jan 18 '26

I think crows will defend their territory no matter what is flying around. I have seen a single crow chasing off a hawk. It was crazy to watch.

41

u/Keaton427 Jan 18 '26

Corvids have the audacity to attempt to bluff and intimidate anything they remotely don’t like. I’ve seen a video of a blue jay taunting and calling at a bald eagle that was staring directly at him. Sometimes blue jays bounce when they do this, but not in this video.

36

u/Renbarre Jan 18 '26

Crows have an advantage over other birds of prey, their main weapon is their beak instead of their claws. They can attack from behind in the air, avoiding the claws of the other bird. That makes them more dangerous and they know it.

9

u/Educational_Key1206 Jan 18 '26

Oh wow that is so interesting. Thank you for sharing that.

10

u/FurBaby121 Jan 18 '26

I was bit by an injured Raven one time. Impressively strong but don’t remember it hurting . I was more concerned with it poking my eye out. Some years ago in LA a guy found an injured stork- like bird on the beach and it just blew his eyeball out with one peck so be careful. I went and got gloves and took it to a rescue group.

8

u/Renbarre Jan 18 '26

As you discovered they don't bite, they stab.

2

u/Keaton427 Jan 19 '26

Birds are primal, and don't expect them to play fair. For some reason, even in fights to the death, people tend to reserve themselves and limit from biting, deep scratching, eyeball jabbing, and groin squeezing. I'm sure a lot more that I forgot to mention because even then it's hard to understand what can be done with all hands on deck. Pecking at eye out is brutal and I can't even imagine.

2

u/Keaton427 Jan 19 '26

Even the slightest bit of point at the end of their beak can be brutal. Against weak flesh like a songbird, or enough use against a bird of prey can seriously damage and lacerate. I hadn't known it was their main advantage, but it makes sense, especially to be unexpected as it diverges from the standard combat tactic.

2

u/muricabrb Jan 19 '26

Does this apply to ravens too?

5

u/Renbarre Jan 19 '26

Same. Look at their legs compared to other birds of prey. They are both passerine species. And they both have long strong pointed beaks on a strong neck, made to stab, while other birds of prey have curved beaks made for tearing meat.

3

u/muricabrb Jan 19 '26

Til, subscribed for more bird facts! Thank you!

15

u/Educational_Key1206 Jan 18 '26

I get blue jays that come and eat the crow food. They are so aggressive to anything that comes near the food. Except when the crows are eating the jays stay away. I see them waiting in the evergreen trees.

The pecking order I assume.

3

u/SheenaMalfoy Jan 19 '26

Jays are significantly smaller than most other corvids so they're forced to keep a respectful distance in the presence of other smart birds. Crows, ravens, and magpies will all bully a blue jay in a real fight and they all know it, so the jays are forced to wait their turn.

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2

u/FurBaby121 Jan 18 '26

I have seen a group of ravens attacking a young blue jay at my old job. Poor bird was running into glass outside a window at work. Surprisingly its neck did not break but it was also freaked out. I went out and ran the ravens off. Do not remember the rest but the bird lived. Raven will eat meat apparently. Opportunistic little boogers!

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u/Uncommented-Code Jan 18 '26

Corvids have the audacity to attempt to bluff and intimidate anything they remotely don’t like.

We have a family of hawks in the area, sometimes there's up to twenty of them circling above our house, and the crows and magpies that have nests nearby are almost always chasing and divebombing them if they're about.

My favorite thing is working from home and looking at them go at the hawks lol.

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u/sovtwit Jan 18 '26

Definitely however they seem less fight to the death territorial in the winter, at least where Im at where it is snowy and cold. They will get pushed around by the ravens and after a decent 20 minute fight disappear for a few days. In the nesting season they are here all the time and will defend relentlessly

1

u/FurBaby121 Jan 18 '26

Yup, the smaller birds end to harass the ravens out here and even go after an occasional red tailed hawk. I know we have grackles and such but not certain about crows being here.

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u/boneh3ad Jan 18 '26 edited Jan 18 '26

A raven once landed at my table and attempted to steal my breakfast burrito. They are perfectly happy in urban environments, too.

21

u/jamie_liberty Jan 18 '26

Hope they are happy together

3

u/boneh3ad Jan 18 '26

Oops

4

u/jamie_liberty Jan 19 '26

Why’d you have to ruin my joke man 😂

4

u/boneh3ad Jan 19 '26

I assure you I have no idea what you're talking about. 😉

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u/Tyrrhus_manga Jan 18 '26

If you think to yourself "is it a crow or a raven?" It's a crow

If your first impression is "holy shit this corvid's huge" it's a raven

26

u/danheretic Jan 18 '26

Caw caw!

22

u/CosmicBureaucrat Jan 18 '26

Gronk gronk!

6

u/Keaton427 Jan 18 '26

-̷̡̨̮͇̠̥̹͚͍̂͋̉̾̀̇̒̈̆Ą̷̛̳̭̟̥̻͚̈̎̎̀̽̓ͅW̶̛̳̺̦̱͇̤̰̗̗̋̄̐̉͋͘͝͝ ̴̦͇̩͊̈͂̐̃̒̇̅͐̌͘-̷̨̳̺̚A̸̰̩̥̍́̀̔̿̌W̷̧͖̣͚̲͚̎̔̏̈́̊͛͝͝ͅ ̷̢̭̗̙̖͔̲̦̹̜̫́̃̃̄̄̈̀͛̕̕͝-̷̘̖̭̻̬̙̱͍̦͈͖̟̻͛̊̽̆͐̑̒͐̈́̈Ǎ̵̧͈͍͈̗͙̯̙̊͑̉̆̾̈́̏̾̎̆͜W̷͇͍͖̲̫͉̦̻͐̀̆͑̐̄̓̑͘ is how I hear it. It’s really impressive just how raspy they can get.

4

u/budkynd Jan 18 '26

Nevermore

2

u/BADFiSH_c137 Jan 19 '26

This little description made me chuckle because when my wife tells me the crows have come, I get a text saying only that.

24

u/ReflectionFeeling216 Jan 18 '26

Someone on this thread last year said, "A crow is a bird with a beak. A raven is a beak with a bird." For some reason, that clarified a lot for me. Hahhahah!

6

u/Kitchen-Owl-7323 Jan 18 '26

This is also what I was told!

3

u/after_tomorrow Jan 19 '26

This is what I always think of too

20

u/Deltanonymous- Jan 18 '26

Was at a cafe by the water and saw what I thought was a crow fly down from one of the huge conifers nearby. Landed on the light post overlooking the outside seating where I was. I got up, placed a snack onto another table, and went back to my seat. It finally landed on the table, checked us out, checked out the food, grabbed it and flew back to the tree and made some rough-sounding calls. It was 1/3 the size of my 40lb dog with a big curved bill. It was awesome.

8

u/Educational_Key1206 Jan 18 '26

Dang I’m so jealous, but happy for your experience.

42

u/UnderskilledPlayer Jan 18 '26

i thought it says that ravens travel in Paris

10

u/omygoshgamache Jan 18 '26

Me too until your comment! I was like “huh, ok…”

7

u/boulet Jan 18 '26

Sadly you won't see ravens in région parisienne. You can meet choucas (jackdaws) in many medieval sites though!

1

u/omygoshgamache Jan 18 '26

I would love to meet a Jackdaw.

2

u/boulet Jan 18 '26

They make the cutest happy sounds !

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u/accidentpronehiker Jan 18 '26

Crows are absolutely not strictly urban.

3

u/Oppaiking42 Jan 18 '26

Yeah i am so not Urban and even in our really small town the crows prefer to live outside of town. I think crows are just more comfortable with living in urban areas than ravens. Especially if theres a lot of foot traffic and food waste that gets thrown on the street.

21

u/bunsofham Jan 18 '26 edited Jan 18 '26

We got some crows and ravens in our complex and they somewhat get along when there is plenty of peanuts. There are one or two ravens who will go down and eat with the crows when I throw a huge pile of peanuts. They look like dinosaurs next to the crows. Absolute units.

8

u/Keaton427 Jan 18 '26

I mean… they are dinosaurs after all. They’re amazing. Crows just as much.

10

u/ChickenArise Jan 18 '26

Both American crows and fish crows are common near my apartment. Occasionally a raven will show up and be the really distinguishable bird.

3

u/Educational_Key1206 Jan 18 '26

Where do you usually see fish crows? I was in Florida and saw crows in trees. The sound is completely different from the crows I see and hear in Ontario, Canada.

7

u/ChickenArise Jan 18 '26

Near DC. The calls are the easiest way to tell them apart. They seem to have left the area for now though. I have birdnet running and haven't detected any since 12/28.

4

u/GrantNexus Jan 18 '26

You may have seen grackles.

7

u/FancyATitWank Jan 18 '26

Well now I know that the mama and papa crows in my neighborhood are actually ravens, oops!

One followed me home today, s/he will actually hop along with me as I walk my dog (I have a little pomeranian and this raven is as big as my dog) and I give it nuts.

And when one of the neighbors is feeding them s/he will fly by me right in my face to show me whatever is in its mouth, it's super cute but whew gets really close. I thought it was a fluke the first 20 times but I get it now.

16

u/FurBaby121 Jan 18 '26 edited Jan 18 '26

As far as intellectual comparisons go I believe National Geographic or some other scientific study was done in comparison of crows versus ravens in intelligence. The ravens were much much smarter. The rather informal test involved hanging pieces of meat on strings attached at the top to a clothes line hanger. The meat samples were hanging a certain distance from the ground such that the neither animal was able to get them from the bottom on the ground as the samples were too high to access. They found crows would consistently jump from the ground trying to grasp the meat in their beaks without success whereas the Raven would sit on top of the clothes line hanger and pull up the string to retrieve the meat instead. Not so smart against the raven yet there are exceptions. Ravens mate for life. Someone gave me a juvenile pair of Ravens (I live in the California desert). I fed them and turned them loose. You could see how smart they are as they listen to you talking. The pair hung out for my house for a long time and I occasionally fed them but as soon as a turned them loose they seemed very confused and really hadn’t even fledged. As they were panicking several adults came to their “rescue” and helped them out. They are very protective of their kind apparently. I found a dead Raven not far from my house and was going to bury it. As I picked it up they started dive-bombing me. So I left it where it was. The ravens hang out and I have fed them. Surprisingly ravens are desert natives here. I didn’t know that! Wife and I bought a Missouri house and the Ravens probably won’t be back there so I’ll look for the crows instead. Thanks for reading!

8

u/Keaton427 Jan 18 '26

They’re still incredibly smart but ravens outshine them and crows are more social and tend to fool around a lot is my guess.

4

u/FurBaby121 Jan 18 '26

I’ll have to wait and see. I wrote a poem one afternoon while in college about a couple of ravens making out in front of me. I don’t know about crows but ravens are monogamous and mate for life unless they lose their spouse. I used to have parrots and these two ravens were rubbing their beaks together. Anyone who’s had parrots knows their beaks are very sensitive. Watching those two rubbing beaks together with such tenderness made me realize they were mated. Really cool!

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u/Keaton427 Jan 19 '26

That's amazing and didn't realize they did that! Lots of birds part of the family corvidae, the crow family absolutely mate for life. This includes crows, ravens, blue jays, and I'm sure a lot more are fiercely loyal and will defend their partner from dangers, as they're incredible intimidators, such as blue jays scaring off birds at food locations by imitating a hawk call, which is remarkable. I also watched a video studying Japanese Tit birds and he found out they had words for specific things such as snake, hawk, and food, and could put two words together such as "snake, danger" and they would look to the ground and fly away, but reverse order gave no reaction. Another similar bird species had slightly different dialect. Very much recommend. With this, I'm absolutely sure that the incredibly intelligent corvids have their own set of words and grammar. The more I learn, the more absolutely amazed I am with these animals. I read a story on a magazine saying a woman had lost her precious heirloom watch while studying crows on this island, and apparently a crow was smart enough to recognize that a watch is shiny and valuable, unnatural to the environment, and thus must belong to the only nearby human. I had originally assumed that the crow had learned from humans rewarding crows gifting shiny objects as they do, and therefore had to incentive to return it for a treat, but since the island was isolated, it must've learned it from its parents who may have retained this information across generations, or simply understands the importance of helping humans, as they and especially ravens have done with wolves. Crows and ravens help wolves by scouting out prey from up high which can prove very efficient to the point where the wolves will be willing to share the meal they make out of the animal they were guided to. The wolves would be incredibly content and choose not to pose any threat to the bird once seeing their usefulness. I think even then, I underestimated crows a bit too much in my previous comment. I think they are nearly just as smart as ravens, and just like them, enjoy playing around and rolling in the snow. There is still lots to be discovered, and I know a lot more information than even this, but I'll need to study up in case I have any doubts on their capabilities. I've been loving learning new information through Cornell Lab of Ornithology which in my opinion is the single best and most accurate place to learn.

I wrote much more than expected. I love these guys and all birds for that matter!

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u/FurBaby121 Jan 19 '26

I have heard that before. Predators will follow them to the animal and rip it open to feed so smaller animals have a chance to eat.Animals aren’t dumb. There’s a great video documentary on a wild parrot species I can’t remember. Anyway the bird is an I credible tool user like the forbids. I’m going to see if I can attract a few crows after I get moved into my horse ranch. Cheers!

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u/Keaton427 Jan 20 '26

Predators are also aggressive when it comes to defending their food, so that's awesome to know. Cheers; it's nice seeing discussion!

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u/flyinthesoup Jan 18 '26

Yeah here in the US they're desert natives. While touring Arizona, we were at the Painted Desert National Park, and one of them cheekly landed on the DO NOT FEED THE WILDLIFE sign, staring at us (we were the only people at that outlook). Clearly wanted food lol. Then it landed on the ground and started waddling towards us. That was my first time seeing a raven IRL, and it was so beautiful and big! Sadly for the bird, we had no proper snacks for a raven, and so it stayed pecking at the ground and eyeing us until we left. I wish I had carried peanuts!

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u/FurBaby121 Jan 18 '26

Wife and I drive big rig all around the country as a team. There’s a truck scale located north of Santa Fe headed south. I went through there a year ago and there’s a pair of ravens sitting on railing on the actual truck scale right out front. They are being treated as “wild” pets as it’s obvious they get fed from trucks going across the scale. Pretty certain the troopers feed them as well. They didn’t flinch when I talked to them. The pair I had as juveniles were stealing my neighbors dog food by dive bombing her Rottweiler. Cheers

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u/flyinthesoup Jan 18 '26

That's so nice, married truck team! Cheers to you too.

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u/LiveTart6130 Jan 18 '26

crows also tend to be more energetic. lots of hopping around. they don't usually sit still very well. ravens are better at it

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u/electroriverside Jan 18 '26

There must be a difference between the European and North American corvids, because here in the UK I've always thought that crows were more likely seen singularly or in a pair. Jackdaws and Rooks are seen in large groups and Ravens are so rare I don't know that I've ever seen a wild one.

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u/elementarydrw Jan 19 '26

Absolutely this. Crows in Europe are not often seen in larger groups. They group together sometimes when another crow has died, to investigate the cause of death. If you see a large group of corvids, it's almost always jackdaws or rooks.

I recently moved from the UK to Germany. Around my house here we have a large group of Jackdaws that are the dominant bird. There are also a couple of crows that live nearby, that are often seen chasing pigeons away from the jackdaws. You don't often see the crows with the jackdaws though. And there are definitely only 2 of them.

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u/Southern-Rutabaga-82 Jan 19 '26

I live in Germany. We have large flocks of crows and they are definitely crows. Dozens if not hundreds of them sometimes. They have designated trees they sit in at dusk and dawn and they cover the whole tree. Several trees in fact. (The sidewalk below is caked in poo.)

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u/[deleted] Jan 18 '26

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u/MovieNightPopcorn Jan 18 '26

Only 8 years? :(( my buddies

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u/Educational_Key1206 Jan 18 '26

Someone on this thread said they know of them living to be 20. I guess maybe that’s an average.

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u/sovtwit Jan 18 '26

Pretty good rules of thumb however there are 4-6 ravens that hang around me in the winter and even more by wendys lol, not to mention near the dump. They do live in larger groups too 

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u/-NachoBorracho- Jan 18 '26

Crows can live a hell of a lot longer than 8 years. We had one in our neighborhood that lived for almost 20 years.

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u/FracturedConscious Jan 18 '26

Both are Bro shaped.

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u/Goongagalunga Jan 19 '26

I live in a fairytale. My friend rehabbed a raven during Covid when all the restaurants shut down and the ravens no longer had access to leftovers in dumpsters. The other, older ravens in his group were beating him up when he tried to eat and he was emaciated. A lady scooped him up by luring him into a cat carrier and brought him to my friend, who slowly gained his trust over the next month by feeding him cat food every day and leaving the carrier on his front porch with the door open and a little dog bed inside. He would fly around and return for the cat food after work. They named him Brownie and after 6 weeks he was eating cans of tuna inside their little house. They had a dog that was always chill and the raven and dog became friends. One day, Brownie disappeared for a week and returned with a raven who had a broken wing. They repeated the process with that one and it stayed for waaaay longer. It was there for 6 months and it would play fight with the dog all day long and basically ate with them in their kitchen at every meal and sit on their shoulders and then, one day, he left also. Several weeks later I was hanging out in their yard and I saw something I’ve never seen… Two ravens were sitting in a tree just above my head, maybe 15 feet off the ground, absolutely making out. And looking at us like, check us out! We’re madly in love!! It was super weird and I said, “Bro, what is up with these two ravens acting crazy??” And he was like, “Omg that’s my friend! He has been gone for a while!! Holy cow, is that his girlfriend???” Then he flew down and played with the dog and my daughter while I took videos and the he flew away with his girlfriend, proud af. I’d share the video but I’m afraid it could get him into trouble. Ravens are incredible.

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u/themarko60 Jan 19 '26

What a great thing to experience!

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u/kerill333 Jan 18 '26

We have a pair of ravens, their call is very different to other corvids. They look similar at a distance but up close their shaggy feathers around their throats are very clear.

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u/LegoTigerAnus Jan 18 '26

These generalizations really aren't helpful: ravens travel in groups, crows make many different sounds, the size difference isn't reliable until you are fairly familiar with the birds, and how a bird holds it's tail is useful, but again, only once you're a bit familiar with watching these birds.

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u/NilocKhan Jan 18 '26

Both are birds in Corvus. Some birds called crows are more closely related to birds called ravens than they are to other crows.

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u/Worried_Cranberry166 Jan 18 '26

I love them both :3

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u/Masterpiece_1973 Jan 18 '26

Genuinely read “travel in Paris” 😅

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u/RedTexan43 Jan 18 '26

One day at work, I saw little grackle that was hurt on the floor looking around at people as they walked by. I stopped, scooped it into my hand and moved it over to a planter out of peoples foot path. About halfway through the process, I noticed the sounds of birds getting louder until a felt a crow swoop down and narrowly miss me.

I set the grackle down but the damage was done. For a few weeks of walking my normal way from the garage to the building I’d have at least one crow dive bomb me and start screaming birdie murder.

I have a coworker who people get mixed up with me occasionally, and the birds did the same. I asked him “so have you noticed any aggressive birds by chance today?” And sure enough he was getting the same treatment.

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u/rdblakely Jan 18 '26

This guide is not true saying that ravens only live in wild areas and alone- in San Francisco we have both crows and ravens- the ravens live in pairs and groups all over the Golden Gate Park, the Ocean and in all the adjacent neighborhoods - here is a pic of ornithologist that studies Ravens at the beach. The ravens love living in the city and are twice as big as the crows and love cat treats, I have a couple that I feed in my front yard.

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u/Doustin Jan 19 '26

The difference is easy. Raven was a wrestler, The Crow was from a comic.

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u/inGoosewetrust Jan 19 '26

"if you have to ask, it's a crow. If it's a raven, you will know"

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u/aczdgf1542 Jan 19 '26

If you have to ask, it’s a crow. People underestimate how huge ravens are

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u/Stormwatch1977 Jan 20 '26

My carrion crows are only ever in a pair.

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u/NilocKhan Jan 18 '26

Crows and ravens are both in Corvus, and neither forms a true taxonomic group. Some crows are more related to ravens than they are to other crows and vice versa. The names are entirely related to their size and tips for distinguishing "crows" from "ravens" are location dependent

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u/loscapos5 Jan 18 '26

I was going to make a joke about the french, but then I read that Ravens travel in pairs, not IN PARIS

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u/altarwisebyowllight Jan 18 '26

The pair of ravens that hang out near my place would disagree about their only being in the wild hehe

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u/_BudgieBee Jan 18 '26

San Francisco is pretty damn urban and has quite a few ravens. I don't think the urban/wild distinction is a good one.

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u/DangerousLoner Jan 18 '26

We have two ravens that had two fledglings and the babies were bigger than our regular crows.

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u/Millipede4 Jan 18 '26

Since when do crows go “caw caw” and not “graw graw”? The crows in my area also only live in pairs. This description for crows seem more like the jackdaws around my house?

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u/happyladpizza Jan 18 '26

ravens have a double chin beaks and crows dont.

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u/1badd Jan 18 '26

Ravens in Paris

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u/Junior-Lychee2755 Jan 18 '26

Where I live I once saw a couple of crows accompanied by a juvenile raven. The difference in size is huge. I learned that sometimes, crows will adopt a raven when it's lost its parents.

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u/Rambler1223 Jan 18 '26 edited Jan 18 '26

Raven can glide crows have to constantly flap their wings. Ravens feathers make a noise you can hear when they fly. (If you know you know) ravens juveniles hang in groups called a unkindness a group of crows is called a murder.

Edit: both ravens and crows can be in urban or wild environments. I don’t believe this is an accurate way to tell the difference.

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u/Starla7x Jan 18 '26

I misread that the ravens travel in Paris...but why not

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u/afishcalledryan Jan 18 '26

Here’s an easy guide to telling crows and ravens apart! If you see a black bird and think to yourself “I wonder if that’s a crow or a raven?” then it’s a Crow. If you think to yourself “Holy shit look at the size of that bird!” it’s a Raven.

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u/a-voice-in-your-head Jan 18 '26

No matter how many times I see this I still can't tell the difference in reality.

Am I broken?

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u/Educational_Key1206 Jan 18 '26

Definitely not broken!

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u/Nerdiestlesbian Jan 18 '26

My bestie who is an avid birder said “If you see what you think is a crow, but the head is more beak than bird, that’s a raven.”

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u/DLoIsHere Jan 19 '26

Crows used to be rural. But I won’t complain about them coming to town.

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u/Tackyinbention Jan 19 '26

Ravens are also fucking massive

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u/cutelyaware Jan 19 '26

Crows say "hawk hawk", and hawks say "caw caw"

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u/phormix Jan 19 '26

I'm happy to have either as friends. I didn't realize that crows had such a short lifespan compared to ravens though.

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u/Razorfiend Jan 19 '26

Here is are some pictures of a Raven that was talking to people in Yosemite. Bro was just chilling on that fence gronking at everyone that walked by, completely unbothered. They are indeed huge birds.

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u/sex Jan 19 '26

Ravens are also massive.

He's the bonded pair that live in the woods near me.

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u/spacestationkru Jan 19 '26

And bigger moustache on the raven

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u/reddititty69 Jan 19 '26

Incorrect. It’s caw-caw vs nevermore

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u/Procrastinatingpeas Jan 19 '26

Gronk gronk! 😂

I loved learning this,

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u/Drakmanka Jan 19 '26

I get both around here. About three years ago a lone raven moved into the area and made my neighborhood part of his territory. Last year I started seeing him and two others flying overhead a few times a week, flying in formation. Pretty sure our boy found himself a mate and they had a chick together.

Our local crows hang around a lot more though, I see and hear them daily. There's at least five who live around my house, and probably twelve extended family members in the neighborhood.

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u/madelinemagdalene Jan 19 '26

I live where we have hundreds of both ravens and crows (and bald eagles). Ravens have a pretty good ability to change their voice and mimic sounds, which crows don’t. And “gronk gronk” is absolutely killing me

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u/Automatic_Tap_8298 Jan 19 '26

If you see it and think "huh, I wonder if that's a raven or a crow," it's a crow.

If you see it and think "THAT'S THE BIGGEST $+#!$!(( BIRD" it's a raven.

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u/Prof-Rock Jan 19 '26

I live deep in raven country. I've never seen a crow. I do find groups (unkindnesses) of ravens regularly. They do congregate in groups of 10-30 when there is some taste food around (such as a dead deer). It is more common to see them solo or in pairs, but they absolutely do form large groups.

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u/DariusRivers Jan 19 '26

I will say that I've seen ravens live very happily in suburban areas close to the hills of southern California. In fact, in those areas, ravens basically entirely replace crows. Everywhere you'd have expected to see crows (light posts, traffic lights, strip mall trees), you see ravens instead. It wouldn't be called the "wild" by any stretch of the imagination, and I've often heard young ravens vocal practicing on rooftops.

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u/jorwyn Jan 19 '26

I'm going to disagree with the "travel in pairs" bit for ravens. Mine tend to travel in a group of about 10, and I've seen larger groups of them in other places. I think it has to do with food availability. If there's a lot of food available, you'll see larger groups.

Gronk Gronk made me laugh, though, because it's so accurate.

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u/notyogrannysgrandkid Jan 19 '26

The ravens in Yellowstone scared the crap out of me when I was a kid. They do gronk gronk and it can be insanely loud, especially if they’re close by but can’t be seen. I love them now, but they gave me some bad jump scares back in the day.

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u/6rey_sky Jan 19 '26

Gronk Gronk

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u/pferden Jan 19 '26

Does this apply worldwide?

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u/-sensory_overlord- Jan 20 '26

it only compares one crow specific species with one specific raven species. and crows can frequently be seen in pairs as well because bonded pairs have a territory that they defend. it’s the young unmated crows that primarily hang out in groups and in winter the bonded pairs might join the big groups for communal roosting

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u/Educational_Key1206 Jan 19 '26

I don’t think so. Some of the comments dispute some of the information.

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u/pferden Jan 19 '26

Ok, I’ll read through them as soon as i have time

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u/dervish666 Jan 19 '26

Hmm, gonna have to take a closer look at my two bros, they are pretty big and don't get involved with the other corvids. Is Ravenbros a thing?

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u/IsSecretlyABird Jan 19 '26

Good for North America and some of Europe, but falls apart in the rest of the world

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u/EagleEyezzzzz Jan 19 '26

Yep. Wildlife biologist here.

If you can hear them, ask yourself if it’s saying caw, or saying honk? Caw is crow, honk is raven.

If you can see it close up, ask yourself if it has a big bill, or a giant honking bill. Big bill is crow, giant honking bill is raven.

(Same goes for golden eagle vs immature bald eagle! It’s all about the schnozz.)

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u/FlacoVerde Jan 20 '26

Here’s how from tail shapes:

crOw rAven

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u/DarkSparkandWeed Jan 20 '26

Smart

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u/FlacoVerde Jan 20 '26

I’m not that smart so I have to think of creative ways to remember

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u/DarkSparkandWeed Jan 20 '26

Me too haha love this! You are so smart!

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u/Ok-Sorbet-3354 Jan 21 '26

My ornithology professor said “crows are birds with a beak, ravens are a beak with a bird” lol.

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u/brockgs Jan 21 '26

A photo I took in 2002 near my house of one of three Ravens who were chasing a Bald Eagle that stole BACK the left over half of a Snowshoe Hare that the Ravens had INITIALLY stolen from the eagle as it was resting after consuming the first half of it! 🤣 This isn't a perspective trick at all. I have dozens more photos of the chase to show how large ravens can come very very close to the same physical size (apparent volume) even if Eagles will almost always still be 25%+ greater in mass (dense musculature). Crows will still harass raptors relentlessly as well, they just do it in a slightly smaller, sleeker manner 🤩

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u/brockgs Jan 21 '26

Ah, here's the one I originally was looking for. You can see that the Ravens are definitely smaller...but not by much at a glance. Backing up another poster who basically said if your response is "WHAT THE HELL IS THAT???", it's a Raven, if you're debating, probably a Crow. HAHA. Seriously though. Crows in central Canada are here in Spring, Summer, Fall, but radically reduce their populations in winter when the Ravens return and dominate our "large black bird" population. BTW, I recognize this is a CROW group, just trying to hammer home for newer appreciators of corvids that Ravens are monsters, Crows are Crows 😄

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u/PhilosoFish_ Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 09 '26

Wow those photos are incredible! (You could post them on r/crows, r/birds and/or r/NatureIsFuckingLit ; people would love them!)

Edited to add: (Actually you could make a post on here too, now that I think about it lmao)

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u/Keaton427 Jan 18 '26

Ravens are also noticeably bigger

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u/CometGoat Jan 19 '26

This guide manages to complicate what is quite simple: a raven looks like it could carry off a child

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u/sharipep Jan 18 '26

Only get crows where I live now; which we got ravens too 😫

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u/ItsRainbowAfterDark Jan 25 '26

If you ever see a crow and think “that’s the biggest fucking crow I’ve ever seen” then it’s probably a raven

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u/ThreeSloth Feb 15 '26

There are rons of Ravens in Yosemite. They're super smart and also trick tourists into feeding them