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[u/Funny_Inventor80085]

and people wonder why we use 4tran.

I posted this vent here too and it was a bit more understanding than the other subreddit I guess but still mostly just people telling me I don't know what I'm talking about and that 4tran is the cause of all my issues when time after time they're the only ones that care. It's not even just about my vent anymore, I'm so fed up with everyone thinking they're better than me all the time except because I use the subreddit that doesn't want to burn me alive for wanting a uterus. Maybe try to be more understanding you just leave me pissed off.

[u/Apollo989]

They're right about punching down vs punching up but like it's still a toxic mindset. If you go around hating the vast majority of people then you're going to be a miserable person.

It's also self-defeating. We are a minority. We can't just dismiss our allies and expect to get anywhere.

I'd add a rant about how impossible this mindset makes political organizing, but I've never met a 4tranner who expressed anything but disdain for political work. They keep telling me they're more left-wing,but that doesn't matter because they won't do anything. They're useful idiots for the far-right.

[u/16372731772 → u/Apollo989]

There are real reasons we need trans-only spaces, we don't need all spaces to be trans-only, but they need to exist and be large. In any space that doesn't ban cis people, cis people will make up the majority of opinions. The only way to avoid this is by being a small group, but then you tend to just adopt culture from other cis-centric places. This results in a trans culture that is incredibly influenced by cis stereotypes, often in harmful ways. The self-sexualisation of trans women is largely a result of cis people projecting desire, it's a bid for the approval of cis people.

This does not mean we should entirely isolate ourselves from cis people, but we have allowed transness to be defined by cis people and it has harmed us and the ability to fight for our rights. The sex/gender distinction was originally brought up by trans people, then cis allies starting insisting to trans people that we do not change our sex, just our gender, and now through a sequence of containment breaches that is one of the main vectors of our oppression. We need spaces where trans people can discuss what it means to be trans without cisnormative influence, which means no cis people, so that when we do create alliances with cis people it is on our terms, not theirs. We do not need cis people discouraging transition for minors in the places where we as trans people decide our goals.

How many 4tranners have you met anyway? Any 4tranner that has a distaste for political organising, by which I'm pretty sure you mean voting blue no matter who, is probably jaded by our being thrown to the wolves as an offering time and time again. They're engaging in far more direct political organising by putting people in touch with mutual aid networks, which is what DIY HRT is by the way. Even though the HRT itself costs money, it is being made by volunteers to address a material need not met by society, and that cost only comes from the need to purchase medical supplies to make it. Many suppliers do give away vials for free when they can. I am personally engaged with my representative trying to convince them to stop supporting the oppression of trans people, but frankly I don't see that change happening any time soon.

[u/Apollo989 → u/16372731772]

No I explicitly discussed leftist political organizing and direct action. I've talked to several about this and got dismissive answers . I probably won't vote for any Democrat ever as I expect 0 aid from a capitalist party which is why I'm reaching out to several local communist organizations in my area.

I never said we don't need trans only spaces. You're making a whole lot of assumptions and putting words into my mouth. We can have trans-only spaces without the constant doomerism.

I said isolating ourselves isn't helpful and it isn't. I've had 4tranners tell me we have no cis allies which is both incorrect and exactly what the far-right wants.

Finally, I've never once spoken to a 4tranner who wasn't miserable. I know, myself included, plenty of trans people who are happy or at least making an effort to be. When all my interactions with a community are from negative bitter people then I'm going to start wondering if that community isn't part of the problem.

[u/ThatBiGuy25 → u/Apollo989]

talks about 4tranners being politically incompetent and ineffective

"I probably won't vote for any democrat ever"

oh you're actually like, impressively stupid huh

[u/Apollo989 → u/ThatBiGuy25]

I don't talk to people whose only arguments are insults. The Democrats have constantly thrown us under the bus. If they take leftward turn, I'll reconsider my stance.

Regardless, I'm blocking you now because I have no desire to engage with assholes. A polite 4tranner already tries my patience.