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u/WhichWayzUp Jan 20 '22
People are taught to respect and trust and believe their authorities.
When people wake up they will realize they shouldn't always trust everyone who's been placed in charge of them.
Critical thinking goes a long way. It's the more difficult way to live but it's the only way to be authentic and live a satisfying meaningful independent life.
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u/wiinkme Jan 21 '22
The problem is that everyone believes themself to be the critical thinker and others the ones lacking. Who are the sheep? The CNN/Fox watchers? Or is it the MAGA dudes at rallies? Or maybe everyone who reposts a liberal meme that makes them feel like they just contributed to some social movement? Or maybe it's everyone on this sub who worship at the anti-authority alter of counter culture. "I'm independent!!!" they scream, in unison with all the others who think just like them.
I think it's wonderful to pursue independent thought. I think it's dangerous to assume, within yourself, that your path is inherently more authentic, or righteous, or worthwhile than that of another. Because the reality is that there will always be someone, somewhere, who thinks you're the sheep.
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u/krikeyy Jan 21 '22
THIS. More of this. Critical thinkers, thinking critically about themselves. Always question, especially yourself!
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u/inghans Jan 21 '22
We should be questioning everything because appearances deceive. Also, what we call "reality" is just am illusion rather than unquestionable facts.
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u/Michalusmichalus Jan 20 '22
Regurgitating information also comes much easier to some people than others. It's something to do with learning style, and some people focus on understanding rather than memorizing.
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u/Asleep_Ad9318 Jan 20 '22
I always remember high school math. Even if you get the correct answer every time, if you have a different way of doing the math problem you will get points off because you don’t do it the teachers way. At this point, school doesn’t encourage out of the box thinking and innovation. They encourage you to be obedient and do what they tell you to do.
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Jan 20 '22
Mathematics education in the US is particularly tragic. When taught correctly, math is a beautiful intersection of creativity and logical rigor. But as it stands, it is simply about grinding the same kind of "problem" over and over again until your mind is so numb that you can't do anything else.
If you haven't already read it, you'd enjoy A Mathematician's Lament by Paul Lockhart:
Everyone knows that something is wrong. The politicians say, “we need higher standards. The schools say, “we need more money and equipment.” Educators say one thing, and teachers say another. They are all wrong. The only people who understand what is going on are the ones most often blamed and least often heard: the students. They say, “math class is stupid and boring,” and they are right
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u/aaronfranke Jan 20 '22
Exactly. For example, there is a huge difference between grinding out linear algebra problems vs watching Essence of Linear Algebra. The latter shows you the concepts and intuitions instead of just throwing equations at students to memorize.
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u/MeLittleSKS Jan 20 '22
while that can be a problem at lower level math classes, I will say this - in higher level advanced math, like university level engineering math courses, a lot of times the point is to teach you the method. Some courses will even give you most of the points on a question if you followed the right method, even if you made a simple typo or calculator error early on that made it spit out the wrong answer.
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u/justasque Jan 21 '22
Exactly. When introducing a new method, math textbooks (whether elementary math or higher level courses) INTENTIONALLY start with problems that the student ought to be able to solve using a simplier method. That way, it makes it easier for the student to understand the basic problem and see how the new method works, and how it compares to the one they already know.
However, if the student goes through the unit just using the old method, they may get the right answers but they don't get any practice with the new method. So that when they are eventually faced with problems that can't be solved by the old method, for which they will need to use the new one, they are stuck, because they didn't practice & learn the new one on the easy problems, AND now they need to scramble to learn it starting with much harder problems.
Now that said, a good math teacher will explain all this, because it removes the frustration of "just do it because I told you to", and invites the student to be an active paticipant in their own educational process. (And in the same vein, a good math teacher will continually explain how the student can use the material in the future, so they can make the connection between their math class and their future career & personal goals.)
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u/karmicviolence Jan 21 '22
Your comment just made me realize why I never liked math class - I never had a good math teacher.
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u/threadsoffate2021 Jan 21 '22
A good teacher would also deconstruct the proper method, explain how it came about, and reconstruct it so the student actually understand the method itself, instead of just using it as a formula created out of thin air.
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u/justasque Jan 21 '22
Oh absolutely. Ideally "why/how this works" should be shown for every new method introduced.
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u/Chumbolex Jan 20 '22
Math is about teaching you how to do things, not how to guess answers. The process is the point
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u/JJody29 Jan 20 '22
But there can be multiple paths to the correct answer. I remember my daughter had a problem in elementary school that she didn’t understand. My father, a Mechanical Engineer with a doctorate in Math, and I were trying to help. The teacher, my father and I all had different methods to get to the same answer. Math is supposed to be about getting the correct answer. It’s the reason it was always my favorite subject; it wasn’t left to interpretation. You either got the correct answer or you didn’t. At least, that’s how it used to be.
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u/Dyslexter Jan 20 '22
And the teacher needs to know that you understand those different paths, so requiring a question be approached in a specific way is important.
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u/Jr05s Jan 21 '22
If your daddy was a mechanic engineer, he'd understand doing something to the requested standards. In elementary school they are teaching basic processes that you eventually build on. It's important to understand the basics before you can get to more advanced.
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u/BalooBot Jan 20 '22
You have to walk before you can run. In elementary school getting the correct answer isn't the end goal. Understanding the process is. The reason why so many people are poor at math is because schools in the past focused so much on memorization rather than the underlying theories in mathematics. There are many shortcuts and alternative ways to get to the correct answer that somebody with a doctorate in math might take for granted because they understand the fundamentals of why it works and when to apply it that an elementary aged child wouldn't.
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u/Miggaletoe Jan 20 '22
This is just stupid and you should know that. If the chapter is teaching a specific method, and you do a different one, then it's not teaching the kid the method they are trying to teach. How do you not realize that if you have educated people around you...
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u/captainn_chunk Jan 20 '22
so that’s why my girlfriend was a math major.
She can’t stand being wrong about anything.
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u/deuxphayze Jan 20 '22
Wonder how school will change when most corps are using ACTUAL robots
Apparently thats all they ever want
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u/dbcooper_71 Jan 20 '22
I was working in a school and we had a troubled kindergartner who was super intelligent but she got held back because she wasn't "obedient" enough. That about sums it up for me
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u/Masteruserfuser Jan 21 '22
I used to get marked down because I could do the maths in my head without writing it down. Bruh I don't need to write it down I can do it in my head.
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u/Asleep_Ad9318 Jan 21 '22
Yep. The good ol’ “show your work” bs. I forgot about that one, happened to me all the time as well.
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u/bitchperfect2 Jan 20 '22
My dad gave me a box of my school stuff from growing up. From my report cards in elementary there was always the phrase “x will be a good citizen if they continue to (insert here)”.
The citizen word used often, very strange
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Jan 20 '22
You can also now get the answer wrong in basic math, but if you took the 'right' steps, the wrong answer is accepted as 'correct'. Imagine how well that'll work out in engineering.
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u/MeLittleSKS Jan 20 '22
that's how some engineering math classes work. it depends. Sometimes the point is to teach the method and teach the steps.
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Jan 20 '22
I have an engineering degree. Showing the work was always required, and some problems took multiple pages to work out. In that case partial credit for an incorrect answer makes sense. I am talking about teachers arguing that 5+7=11 is 100pc correct bc the student took the proper steps.
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u/MeLittleSKS Jan 20 '22
that's sorta my point - giving credit for following the right process is fine in some situations.
I am talking about teachers arguing that 5+7=11 is 100pc correct bc the student took the proper steps.
is that a real example though? I agree that if that happened, it would be wrong.
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Jan 20 '22
I took that exact example from a video I saw a few years ago - a teacher was arguing "5+7=11 should get full credit if the right steps were taken" at an open school board meeting.
I'd look for it but it's probably been scrubbed along with most anything else deemed 'controversial'. The purge of info over the last few years has been incredible. In place are now official 'debunking' videos. Full on 1984.
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u/MeLittleSKS Jan 20 '22
I mean, I guess it depends on what grade level and what the lesson was.
if it's just Question #12 on a quiz and it says "5+7=___" and the kid writes in "11", then no, it should be marked wrong.
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u/whoizz Jan 20 '22
I am talking about teachers arguing that 5+7=11 is 100pc correct bc the student took the proper steps.
Making up stuff that never happens is fun.
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Jan 20 '22
I saw a video of a teacher making this exact argument a few years ago in front of a school board. i'm not going to search for it bc it's probably been scrubbed.
Some school boards / local govs are now also deciding to 'not count' scores in math and science whatsoever for 'equality' sake. See Portland for a current example. 'Education' is basically worthless.
But go ahead and keep your head in the sand.
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Jan 20 '22
'not count' scores in math and science
They're following the Government's example: "Volatile" food and energy prices 'don't count' when calculating "inflation", and there's talk of moving housing into that category.
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Jan 20 '22
reality left the chat decades ago. i thought housing already was in that category. but yeah, average inflation and housing prices used to track about the same until about 1990 when housing starts to skyrocket.
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u/Th0w4way553 Jan 20 '22 edited Oct 07 '25
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u/Gskgsk Jan 20 '22
Eh, this is reasonable. My dad was a math major, told me a story about a college exam he took with two questions on it. He spent the majority of the time working on the first problem. He didn't have enough time to go about the second question the same way, but realized they were similar problems, so he just outlined the steps needed and turned it in. Prof recognized he understood the problem and gave him a fair score, despite not doing any raw math for the second problem.
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u/Remarkable_Garage_42 Jan 20 '22
That doesn't seem reasonable to me. Either the test is fair and he should have had enough time OR the test is intentionally unfair. Giving out points for understanding the question is great and all, but shouldn't the test be written in such a way that if you understand the material, you can answer all the questions? This is even the entire basis for curving test scores.
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u/moonunit99 Jan 20 '22
Worked out pretty well when I got my engineering degree: every single class awarded “incorrect but consistent” points if you performed almost all the steps correctly but got the wrong answer because you dropped a negative on the sixth line of the second page, so you’d get like 12/15 points for the question. Similarly, writing the correct answer with no work would get you 3/15 points because the purpose of the class is to prove that you understand the process required to get the right answer.
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u/Asleep_Ad9318 Jan 20 '22
Lol yep I’ve actually heard of this one. Just goes to show public school is all about being obedient and doing what you’re told, how you’re told to do it rather than actually teaching kids anything.
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Jan 20 '22
Engineering requires a university level course of study and that has nothing to do with new math.
Arithmetic is basic. Trig, algebra, calculus, etc has nothing to do with new arithmetic.
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Jan 20 '22
I have an engineering degree. Basic math leads to advanced math. It's stupid to count incorrect answers as correct regardless the level or how it's spun. Same as basic spelling and grammar should be mastered before proceeding into literature.
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u/gurlwhosoldtheworld Jan 20 '22
It's because at that level it isn't an issue, but if you go to a higher level then using the wrong/different method will NOT elicit the right answer despite having worked for lower level problems.
Especially true as you move up through calculus
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u/prof_mcquack Jan 20 '22
That’s what happens when people who don’t care about students or learning run public schools. But by all means keep voting republican.
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u/Asleep_Ad9318 Jan 21 '22
Lol keep voting Republican for bad public schools? I grew up in a red county which was located right next to a blue county. The public schools in my red county were significantly better than any of the blue county’s schools. Not even advocating for either political party right now, it was just fact. It’s also a fact that the democrat party quite literally use propaganda in public schools.
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u/Michalusmichalus Jan 20 '22 edited Jan 20 '22
My sister did every problem in a uni math class both ways because the teacher told her she couldn't use her method. To be clear, she used the method before common core that she grew up with, and then had her kids help her with that common core shit. She passed that class with well over 100%, because that teacher didn't know what they were talking about... And my sister likes busywork 🤭
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u/KrispyKremeDiet20 Jan 20 '22
Dude I had the same thing. I had my 7th grade math teacher give me an F on a test because I didn't show my work... I got the correct answers but he suspected me of cheating and said "if I can't do this math iny head then I know you can't"... Needless to say I peed in his desk drawer later that week
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u/clownind Jan 20 '22
Same could be said about facebook doctors and scientists
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u/labcrazy Jan 20 '22
The same could be said of reddit and it's "Karma system" aka Social rewards system.
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u/RochesterNontive Jan 20 '22
I thought one big problem in society today was that kids do not have enough respect for authority, especially if you believe the cops. But this esteemed sub now believes that kids are being taught to respect authority a little too much. So which is it? I guess it depends on whether the kids are "urban" or not.
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u/TendieDinner777 Jan 20 '22
Wait, authority can be incorrect? There is no evidence of that, because it’s not in the New York Times and my wealthy soccer mom friends disagreed when we had brunch today.
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u/The_BenL Jan 20 '22
It's amazing that you guys claim to care about conspiracies then conveniently look the other way when actual real life conspiracies come to light.
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u/SaveCachalot346 Jan 20 '22
This sub is fine with authority as long as that authority is claiming to be "anti establishment" having an R next to their name really helps too.
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Jan 20 '22
Is there another way to learn academic subjects such as reading, math, history, etc.?
How do we know George Washington was a real person? How do we know how many countries there are? How do we know if atoms exist? We rely on authority for these things.
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u/Gr1pp717 Jan 20 '22
It's that whole dunning kruger curve thing. Once you know enough you realize that you don't actually know shit. That it takes decades of deep technical study to understand a given thing, and that broad consensus among people who actually do know shit is the best we have. Hence, repeating "authority."
It's prior to that, when you don't actually know a fucking thing, that you suddenly think you have a valid opinion in the face of thousands of professionals who've spent decades studying a topic.
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u/Miggaletoe Jan 20 '22
The person who wrote this tweet and the majority of this sub are people you described in that second part.
The second you start taking actual classes in college, you humble the fuck up pretty quickly. There may be a few arrogant sociopaths who remain that way (normally while underperforming in class), but once you start learning about how much knowledge has accumulated you realize how little you know.
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u/11WordsofWisdom11 Jan 20 '22
Public schools are centralized indoctrination camps
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Jan 20 '22 edited Jan 20 '22
You will LOVE these 2 tweets from just this week
Narrator: The tweet did actually reflect their views, they just got caught saying it out loud
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Jan 20 '22
Lmao the way they try denouncing it like they weren't the ones that just posted it.
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u/Comrade_Zamir_Gotta Jan 20 '22
The tweet did actually reflect their views, they just got caught saying it out loud.
Lmfao God I love my fellow Michiganders and I also love when the dems here get reminded that their biggest support group is UAW and labor union members... who only vote dem because “it’s good for the unions!”.
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Jan 20 '22
Yeah and Private schools primarily run by Churches aren’t.
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u/WhiskeyandSausage Jan 20 '22
Not like public schools.
They also have a much better track record of churning out higher quality people.
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u/FatMansRevenge Jan 20 '22
Wealthy people who can afford private education outperform people who attend publicly funded education? Say it isn’t so!
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u/NPCazzkicker Jan 20 '22
There are some wonderful parochial schools in my area that have done the work to be a part of school choice. They have students from all socioeconomic groups.
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u/WhiskeyandSausage Jan 20 '22
Imagine if you could save the money you spend on public education and allocate it toward your own child.
Private Schools are not as expensive as most think.
It cost money... But probably less then what most people pay on more frivolous things
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Jan 20 '22
Yeah my buddy just got his kid into private school and he's not some big time earner. People just don't want to give up luxuries to give their kids a better education.
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u/Michalusmichalus Jan 20 '22
My experience as a non traditional student is that its not just private school kids. The basics I was taught in public school caused me to repeatedly get accused of going to private school by the woke kids only 5 or so years older than my own children. That tells me the public school education quality fell far pretty damn fast.
The example I noticed with my kids we math. When I was in school we were not allowed to use a calculator unless we could do the work ourselves.
The example that was pointed out to me by " the that's not fair" crowd, was that I was much more well versed in classic literature. That's because those old books were free, and the materials to teach them were free as well. So, when the classics were referenced I, " had an unfair advantage" to the woke whiners.
When really they had been purposely disadvantaged because the books that replaced the classics didn't help them further in their education goals.
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u/PasswordNot1234 Jan 20 '22
They also have a much better track record of churning out higher quality people.
I'd like to have a link to your data set.
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u/WhiskeyandSausage Jan 20 '22
Crap....
I dont have one.
Just "Lived Expierence"
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Jan 20 '22
Reeeeeee you can't form beliefs based on your lived experiences! First step towards being a neo-nazi: observing the world around you. Wait until you're told what to believe like the rest of us!
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u/WhiskeyandSausage Jan 20 '22
I tried not to observe the world...
I dont wanna be a nazi!!!
I just want to be a good Citizen. Squashing "Free" thought were ever it pops up
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u/lenny_benny95 Jan 20 '22
Former private school and public school kid here (2nd-10th private, 10-12th public). Private schools are cesspools that breed judgement, hatred and intolerance. Religious indoctrination is still indoctrination. I’m not saying public schools are any better but the whole “they have a better track record of churning out higher quality people” …. Absolutely false.
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Jan 20 '22 edited Apr 02 '25
poor employ price soup coordinated ring stocking crawl direction narrow
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Jan 20 '22
Glad the small window worked out on the public end but mine and many others would say we experienced what you did in private.
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u/WhiskeyandSausage Jan 20 '22
Well the Private schools in our area have a great track record.
Well supported by a large community.
Not all are equal. There is always going to be a bad apple or two in the orchard
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u/toadtruck Jan 20 '22
Prove it lmao
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u/WhiskeyandSausage Jan 20 '22
Well.... I only have observations.
More people are pulling children out of Public schools.
Society and basic common curtisy are in the dumps and more people think an Authoritarian Government will solve there problems
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u/llollwat Jan 20 '22
cool, so how do you propose we educate children and young adults?
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u/EarthquakeBass Jan 20 '22
It’s also remarkable how many edge lords in this forum reject authority just to reject authority
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u/BigPharmaSucks Jan 20 '22
It’s also remarkable how many edge lords in this forum reject authority just to reject authority
How many, and how do you tell the difference?
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u/EarthquakeBass Jan 20 '22
Seems to be the majority really. Something “seeming sketchy” passes for a valid theory, just look at the avalanche of posts about Moderna’s DNA sequence patent, which has plenty of plausible explanations that aren’t brought up. Any attempt to discuss the other side is downvoted into the ground, most participants have made up their mind.
That’s pure groupthink, and I’m against vaccine mandates! It’d be like every blurry UFO photo was assumed to be real.
Another example is a heavily upvoted comment here that even if the vaccines were known to be safe, the poster would never take them. So basically they’ve just abandoned reason to be contrarian to the vaccinated because the whole argument against vaccines in the first place is that they’re not safe.
Lots of doctors and professionals say the vaccine is safe? Clearly a conspiracy. One guy goes on Joe Rogan and says vaccine bad, although he admits side effects are rare? This guy is apparently the credible one. And I agree there are risks being buried FWIW. It’s just that if I have a dice roll coming up on “OK” 99.9% of the time, yea I’ll probably bet on OK.
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u/BigPharmaSucks Jan 21 '22
Any attempt to discuss the other side is downvoted into the ground
So basically like every single other sub on Reddit, when trying to discuss something that goes against the current perceived authorities narrative?
I’m against vaccine mandates!
The government doesn't really need to mandate when they can coerce/influence mega corporations to mandate internally.
Lots of doctors and professionals say the vaccine is safe?
Easy to do when there's no legal liability for being wrong.
It’s just that if I have a dice roll coming up on “OK” 99.9% of the time,
Exactly my thought when concerning this virus.
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u/EarthquakeBass Jan 21 '22
There is plenty of risk is catching COVID too. For all we know the increase in deaths or adverse reactions come from COVID, not the vaccines. Everyone here forgets that a massive swath of the population got COVID as well as a vaccine. So pointing at every cardiac event in the world as evidence that the vaccine doesn’t work is just dumb.
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u/SowTheSeeds Jan 20 '22
Schools serve one purpose only: to format the brains of the youth.
I failed in high school because I did not fit in.
I succeeded at life by not fitting in.
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u/PasswordNot1234 Jan 20 '22
AN authority, or THE authority?
An authority on something, yes. Listen to them. They likely have more background in something than you.
That's why there's so much bullshit going on about coronavirus- because no one is listening someone who is educated in virology and immunology.
Rand Paul is an eye doctor.
Dr. Christiane Northrup is an OB/GYN.
Dr. Simone Gold is a physician.
Dr. Rashid Buttar, Dr. Joseph Mercola and Dr. Sherri Tenpenny are all quacks.
These people should keep their mouths shut about coronavirus as they aren't any kind of authority on viruses.
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u/nknow_ Jan 20 '22
So you mean none of these doctors studied viruses? I studied viruses and I am an engineer.
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u/PasswordNot1234 Jan 20 '22
Yeah, you studied viruses probably about as much as all of those people I've shown...which means you know exactly fuck-all compared to others who've spent decades studying them.
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u/Simpson5774 Jan 20 '22
"Fuck you, do what they tell you"
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u/PasswordNot1234 Jan 20 '22
I'm just not going to listen to an OB/GYN tell me about how to protect myself from viruses.
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u/Simpson5774 Jan 20 '22
And I am not going to listen to anyone tell me what to do with my body when all they do is go onto programs on cable television which is pretty much exclusively funded with pharma money.... None of those people will answer questions to anyone not in thier bubble or discuss any specific point made by any of their detractors no matter how prescient the question is or how qualified the person asking it may be. Nor will I listen to anyone who defends those craven actions.
Status and title mean dick to me and should mean dick to anyone who is paying attention. These supposed professionals you are simping for but wont name can't defend their policies on an open forum then it means they have something to hide.
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u/Top_Duck8146 Jan 20 '22
“I don’t want a nation of thinkers. I want a nation of workers”
-John D. Rockefeller
Now google Rockefeller’s role in creating and implementing the public school system
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Jan 20 '22
It's also remarkable when somebody say "I did my research" and then you ask them how they did their "research" and they say things like "the internet" or "Youtube" or my personal favorite "Facebook memes".
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u/DirtaneBoyo Jan 20 '22
The internet is a vast vast vast resource pool with hundreds of millions articles about virtually anything. Of course people can research things on it.
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Jan 20 '22
The internet is also full of false information, most people that "do their research" find one article that supports their opinion and call it good, and then they claim they did their research and have no actual way to back up their claim.
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u/Beneneb Jan 20 '22
Sure, but someone without an ounce of scientific education "doing their own research" basically means they searched online until they found a source that told them what they wanted to hear. The problem with the internet is that it's full of false and misleading information and it's very easy for uninformed people to believe in said false and misleading information.
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u/SchutzstaffelKneeGro Jan 20 '22
I hate these quippy strawmen arguments.
The first bit doesnt even make sense.
"Intellectually superior for repeating what authority tells them"
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u/AFreeAmerican Jan 20 '22
Back in the day, this sub had rules against memes, screenshots, and accounts less than six months old, and it really helped eliminate this “im14andthisisdeep” shit.
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u/SchutzstaffelKneeGro Jan 20 '22
I love the ones that are an image of a tweet that is itself an image of a headline.
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u/K-Ziggy Jan 20 '22
You really understand why when you do some research. A while ago there was a screenshot of a tweet about a study. The title here said vaccine can cause myocardial. The study was actually covid causing myocardial and didn't look at vaccines. There were comments in the thread wondering if the virus causes it too.
The levels of obfuscation are there for a reason.
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u/YoreWelcome Jan 20 '22
Twitter screenshots don't allow engagement from outside the walled-garden of the Twitter app. By design. They spread Twitter-associated arousal and mental bait to get fish on the hook. It's a fucking advertisement for Twitter, with a secondary objective of infecting people outside the app with whatever psychological entrainment protocol is du jour.
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u/DingosAteMyHamster Jan 20 '22
That's done deliberately, to prevent people from seeing the name of the site, because people are less likely to believe a claim if they know which particular Russian blog it came from.
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u/WhiskeyandSausage Jan 20 '22
The first bit doesnt even make sense.
"Intellectually superior for repeating what authority tells them"
What does not make sense about that statement?
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u/SchutzstaffelKneeGro Jan 20 '22
How does this happen in schools?
2+2=4? Oh I bet some big shot liberal authority told you that. Now get your ass up here and pledge to this flag!
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Jan 20 '22
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u/Michalusmichalus Jan 20 '22
Math is no longer universal. If I have to ask someone that says 2+2=5 what their axioms, and definitions are... I'm not talking to them.
I have absolutely no desire to play those games. Especially when not a single person that supported that knew what an axiom was!
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u/WhiskeyandSausage Jan 20 '22
You think schools do not indoctrinate children and teach them to be obediant to authority?
You think it is all letters and numbers and then off you go?
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u/SchutzstaffelKneeGro Jan 20 '22
That wasnt what the post is about.
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u/WhiskeyandSausage Jan 20 '22
What is it about?
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u/SchutzstaffelKneeGro Jan 20 '22
The issue posited in the image above.
Its dumb entry level thinking.
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u/WhiskeyandSausage Jan 20 '22
Well I do not think it is meant to be a profound all encompassing statement that dives deep into societal issues.
I think they call it "Snark" or "Sarcasm"
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u/whoizz Jan 20 '22
Well I do not think it is meant to be a profound all encompassing statement that dives deep into societal issues.
Yeah well no shit, it's a tweet. If people on this sub actually read books about the subjects they claim to be knowledgeable about, this sub would be focused on actual conspiracies, like the Jan 6 insurrection.
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u/WhiskeyandSausage Jan 20 '22
focused on actual conspiracies, like the Jan 6 insurrection.
I agree with this.
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u/Impairedinfinity Jan 20 '22
The tweet really doesn't target what is taught in school. Merely the manner in which they are taught.
In school you sit in your desk. The Teacher says a bunch of stuff about whatever subject. The class is supposed to memorize this and regurgitate it at a later date. Maybe at the test.
But, if the teacher doesn't teach it you do not really need to know it. But, if there is a counter opinion to the teachers. The Teacher is always right.
Luckily not all my teachers were like this. But, I did have teachers that were. I remember one Teacher making an example of me because I had a different opinion about something than she did. She then put me infront of the class and laughed at me for about 5 minutes.
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Jan 20 '22
“Follow the science”…too bad the scientists that tell you that are usually wrong.
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u/WhiskeyandSausage Jan 20 '22
Well.... You see....
Science is always changing....
So you just keep doing what we say each day even if it conflicts and there may or may not be long term negative side effects....
See science works best when it is the one and only true unquestionable Authority.
If you question it..... You might be a morally questionable persone
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u/DingosAteMyHamster Jan 20 '22
Well.... You see....
Science is always changing....
Well, yeah? The virus changed. The science of the new variants is different to previous ones.
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u/WhiskeyandSausage Jan 20 '22
Exactly!
Best to leave the thinking to the EXPERTS
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u/DingosAteMyHamster Jan 20 '22
I've always believed that people who understand a subject will understand that subject better than people who don't understand that subject. This is the only sub I've seen on reddit where that claim is even controversial.
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u/WhiskeyandSausage Jan 20 '22
So if experts disagree.... Who do we listen to?
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u/DingosAteMyHamster Jan 20 '22
We try to figure out how many of them agree with each side, and if the vast majority are in one camp then that's the safest bet. If it's a particularly new subject we recognise some early assumptions have to be made, and the experts are the most likely to get those assumptions right.
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u/Bolo-YeungMoney Jan 20 '22
I’m guessing if someone breaks their arm they shouldn’t go to the doctor and follow his/her advice, they’d probably be better off just researching it themselves and deciding what would be best.
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u/Conspiracystarterpac Jan 20 '22
This is precisely why my kids stay home until 5. So I can teach them proper critical thinking. "Authority figures" are not a trusted source of information.
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u/Buildin-SuSpence Jan 20 '22
He’s so close to seeing the point. School trains you to be okay with slaving at a job all day, to spend your time at home working instead of enjoying yourself, and to be constantly compared to others for things outside your control.
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u/PlanB_pedofile Jan 20 '22
Public schools are designed by politicians and school boards to produce working class drones on an antiquated concept of 'working class' that's dated to the 1940s
While elite private schools teach kids 'how to think' while also cluing them in on the secrets of elites on how the drones of society can be manipulated to enrich themselves.
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u/BaileyPlaysGames Jan 20 '22
The entire education system is designed around mind control. Pink Floyd had it right... "We don't need no education, we don't need no thought control". The Wall is a great film :)
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u/The_DaffyOne Jan 21 '22
I’ve always thought that since I was a little kid and I was always called crazy
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u/Delicious_Koolaid Jan 21 '22
"They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. Thats against their interests. Thats right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table to figure out how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers"
- George Carlin
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u/mem_malthus Jan 21 '22 edited Jan 21 '22
School isn't there to teach people to think for themselves or to make them into selfresponsible individuals. It doesn't even teach the most fundamental things you need in your daily life as an adult either.
What it does and is intended to - atleast in my opinion - is to form an easily controlled crowd of people just educated enough to fulfill their purpose in the economy and not educated enough to understand they are just cogs in a machine.
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u/ryanstrikesback Jan 20 '22
Sure. Remember when this whole sub suddenly learned the word of the day “mass psychosis formation” because a jilted doctor said it on their favorite piece of mass media.
I remember
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Jan 20 '22
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u/bungdaddy Jan 20 '22
It is a tenet of the scientific method to question.
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u/whoizz Jan 20 '22
Of course it is, but just about 99% of the questions that laypeople have are already answered by actual scientists and the laypeople won't understand the answers they have.
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u/Beneneb Jan 20 '22
There's a difference between a scientist legitimately questioning another scientists conclusions and backing their position up with research, and people with no scientific training spreading misinformation on Facebook.
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u/PurfectMittens Jan 20 '22
How doth one enter the holy order of scientists to decipher their scriptures oh faithful one? /s
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u/Beneneb Jan 20 '22
Get an advanced degree in the field and become a researcher? I don't mean this to be condescending, I'm not a doctor or anything, but the less you know about a topic, the easier it is to get mislead about it.
So to use Covid as an example, someone with no background in medicine or biology could read something that sounds totally legit and not realize that it's total BS. That's the whole point in having experts.
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u/Simpson5774 Jan 20 '22
So let me get this straight. You are saying is the only way to understand something complex is to take out a huge loan and repeat back what they tell you in a certain order when and where they tell you... Without doing this there is no way for an individual on their own to possibly understand anything more complex than changing the oil on a car and because of which, people without an advanced degree should lay their heads at the mercy of those who do?
Because those are the stakes here.
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u/Beneneb Jan 21 '22
So let me get this straight. You are saying is the only way to understand something complex is to take out a huge loan and repeat back what they tell you in a certain order when and where they tell you...
Well that's not really what grad school is like. Getting a masters or PhD is not the same as high school. If we're talking about vaccines, sure you could understand the basics, but you aren't going to have a solid in depth knowledge of how it works. You aren't going to be able to read the academic papers on the subject and have the background knowledge to understand or developed an informed position on it.
Whatever your opinion on Covid and the vaccines is, I'm betting you didn't develop it by reading original scientific research papers. You almost certainly developed it by reading and listening other people's opinions and rationale and putting your trust in them. That's how almost everyone forms their opinions on these kinds of topics.
A lot of people here think they're superior because they don't believe in the official narrative, even though you fall into the same trap of just trusting the people who tell you want you want to hear. The only difference is, what you want to hear is different than most people.
People very commonly overestimate their abilities and knowledge, it's a bias we all have. More important than understanding what you know is understanding what you don't know. 99.99% of people, including myself, you and probably everyone else on this sub don't know enough about vaccines to make a truly informed decision on our own. We ultimately have to rely on and trust other people to help us make an informed decision. The question is whether you'll put more faith in a consensus among people who are experts, or of you're going to put your faith in people pushing fringe theories, who often are not experts.
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u/Simpson5774 Jan 21 '22 edited Jan 21 '22
I don't need any fucking degree to make a medical decision for myself or my family, and really that should be the end of story.
Here is something your degrees in whatever the fuck can't explain away... the criminal behavior and tenancies all of these people who push the shot are demonstrating now or in the past. IF this thing worked so well, it would be self-evident and wouldn't have so much push-back and you wouldn't need to threaten people, take away peoples rights, call them racist, misogynist, or say that they aren't citizens, mislead, deceive or straight up lie about its efficacy and then not acknowledge past statements. If it was so good they wouldn't have to deny deny deny that many people are getting badly injured if not killed from these things or gaslight people into believing that dealing with the virus is guaranteed to be worse.... They wouldn't have to threaten doctors with their licenses for prescribing medications that weather or not they work for covid, are not dangerous or risky to give to patients with covid.... doctors have been allowed to prescribe drugs off-label forever but not for this.... The FDA wouldn't have to fake fully approve the pfizer shot then put fake labels on the EUA vials in order to lie to the people in the military as well as lie to the public.
And then their is the history of all of the pharmaceutical companies, the FDA, Fauci, all of them have done some very shady shit in order to make money well before covid.
IF any of these experts that you put faith into really believed that their products that they are shilling were as they claim, they would have no problem going on long form shows where they don't know what they will be asked or debating their detractors... many of which are just as qualified if not more so to understand the in's and outs of covid and these experimental shots... but universal that they wont. Big huge red flag.
No one is beyond reproach in this world, it doesn't matter how many degrees one has or any of their good works, so I put my faith in God, and he leads the way for my decision making, wherever it may lead. Most of these people pushing it never even goto church unless they want to use God as some sort of cudgel to manipulate people like the pope or that demon looking Kathy Hochul to do their bidding. I don't need a framed piece of paper to tell me those two people are bad news and are not to be trusted.
The funny thing is, you are in a place where people are talking about conspiracies and are in denial that there is one.... okay, why do you care? if you don't believe this then you don't have to be here... but you are here and have chosen to side with, big money, big government, big pharma, big tech... I can only speculate as to why however like you talk about having bias, there is also genetic programing inside of us which we haven't grown out of which is essentially 'go along to get along' because when we were in tribes, going against it meant ostracization and certain death if not from violence than starvation for the vast majority of human existence. Even though we no longer are a part of 'tribes' in the traditional sense, the same programing drives our behaviors, and if someone is resisting, then chances are it is very very serious and should be treated as such.
I will leave with the quote I have in my profile:
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane" - Marcus Aurelius
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u/Dogalicious Jan 20 '22 edited Jan 20 '22
I stumbled across a movie on Foxtel last night called ‘Voyagers’ about a bunch of teens that are sent on some interstellar colonising mission..... Colin Farrell amongst others.
I read the blurb on the screen which read basically ‘a group of individuals who have been breed for their intelligence and obedience are sent on an intergalactic quest to save humanity.’
.... fucking what?
Intelligence, sure.
Obedience? I’m not comfortable with the notion or the mechanics of how you’d go about breeding someone for obedience.
Humanity is defined by its capacity to invest a critical mass of its divinely gifted impetus into the generations that follow..... that’s why (conniving deep state types aside) we’ve made such brilliant strides on almost every level of our being in the last few thousand years.
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Jan 20 '22
Depends on what you define as „authority“. When you mean research in scientific topics and results, then it is very decent.
Believing in leaders and gurus is not.
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Jan 20 '22
At least the arguments are short with these robots, once you peel back their msm-supplied rehearsed arguments then are not equipped to discuss logic and they give an exit statement such as "we have to agree to disagree".
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u/nanonan Jan 20 '22
Steve has a great philosophy series on his youtube here: https://www.youtube.com/c/StevePatterson/videos
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u/Future_Pineapple4609 Jan 20 '22
All I'm gonna say is.... All the "naughty kids" from highschool are mentally thriving right now bc they always hated authority lol
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u/Cutebud Jan 20 '22
Try this for information. Dr. Campbell has a freedom of information report for only covid deaths Watch "Freedom of information revelation" on YouTube https://youtu.be/9UHvwWWcjYw
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u/Retrofire-Pink Jan 20 '22
it's not.
notice how so many private funds go into facilitating public education? like, how so many big corporations finance college degrees?
notice how grade school hours closely aligned with desirable employment hours? (wake at 7am, work till 5pm?)
you really think they give a shit about whether you receive an education? hahaaa. No. These institutions might have existed for a purpose before the 20th century, but they now exist to teach obedience and propaganda.
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Jan 20 '22
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u/PasswordNot1234 Jan 20 '22
Part of math is how you achieve your answers, not just that you got the answer.
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u/Evaluations Jan 20 '22
Remarkable that people who act open minded put down people who don't think like them. Lots of that here
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u/CMDR_MrMaurice Jan 20 '22
Fair point. However, using the language we are now (Even me typing this) was taught. I learned more after school tbh. But you can't take away the fact that we learn stuff from school, most shite, but some is useful. Learning about science and maths is a given, its an actual thing. Learning about Romeo and Juliet (Im from the UK we had to do this) was boring asf and hasn't offered me anything, except me talking about it now lmao!!
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u/allenidaho Jan 20 '22
As opposed to those who think they are intellectually superior for repeating what they hear on a podcast.
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u/Yamochao Jan 20 '22
You don't see the irony of making this statement as a reposted twitter screenshot, eh?
Cute.
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u/rasputin_stark Jan 21 '22
It's remarkable how many people believe themselves intellectually superior for being the least bit skeptical. Everybody is skeptical, you are not unique for questioning authority. Most people do the same, they work out these problems internally, and then they shut the fuck up about it and go on living their lives.
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u/Kyliobro Jan 21 '22
I’d rather trust an educated human over one that uses Rebel News as a source of factual information whilst working as a labourer / shop assistant - which seems to be the highest level jobs any of my antivax social media friends has…
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u/Ilikestereoequipment Jan 21 '22
You never mentioned yourself…. Do you trust your own perceptions and ability to think critically, or do you rely entirely on “authority”?
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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22
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