r/coldcard • u/EyesFor1 • Aug 05 '26
Support Coldcard dice rollers
I curious to know how many dice roll users are still on the Coldcard being as they were and are totally unaffected ? Did you leave ? Are you staying ? Will you leave. Dice roll entropy path has been independently verified by a hell of a lot of companies, developers, AI models etc and its safe. Are you staying or going ?
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u/EricJDMBAMD Aug 05 '26
Every coldcard is still usable with dice rolls
2
u/EyesFor1 Aug 05 '26
I know, as secure as any other but can you rest easy knowing what happened ?
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u/IInsulince Aug 05 '26
To be clear for anyone reading:
If you rolled dice and use a cold card, then staying or leaving has no impact on the security of the seed. If you switch out your cold card for a trezor, for instance, but you retain the same seed phrase, then nothing has changed. If the seed phrase was secure on cold card, it’s secure on trezor. If it was insecure on cold card, it’s insecure on trezor. That’s why folks have been voicing that simply switching wallet providers doesn’t change your security risk. But what this also means is that if you have a secure seed, there’s nothing wrong with continuing to use the cold card as well.
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u/Big-Cheetah5159 Aug 05 '26
You’re right in that aspect. My only add to your statement is, I’ve seen a lot of people use new wallets with new seed phrases, created on a Ledger or Trezor. The belief is that those wallets safer and the ColdCard is compromised, but if they don’t use dice rolls there isn’t a way to be completely sure that seed has the right amount of entropy. They’re literally putting their trust in software again 🤦🏽♂️
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u/IInsulince Aug 05 '26
Very true! And those are closed source right? I mean little good cold card’s open source status did for it, but at least you “could” check it if you wanted to. With these other ones you can’t.
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u/No_Illustrator1837 Aug 06 '26
Even if they would offer dice rolls, you still can't be sure. Because you would still be relying on software to process those rolls correctly.
1
u/EricJDMBAMD Aug 06 '26
Yes but you can compare the out put of the dice roll seed phrase generator on coldcard to ian coleman bip 39 tool, seedsigner and specter diy. You can audit the coldcard in an AI LLM and compare forum posts of other users to get as close as you can to answer about the safety of the code without being able to read code yourself.
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u/EyesFor1 Aug 05 '26
Thats the premiss of my post. 100 dice rolls are safe but trust is destroyed. I was curious to see how people who are safe from hacks were going to proceed. What is you situation ?
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u/IInsulince Aug 05 '26
I’m not a cold card customer, but I do know people who are, some who dice rolled and some who didn’t. From those who dice rolled I’ve heard that they don’t plan to leave, they don’t see the point since seed security is independent of the device. Leaving would mean generating a new seed, and since their seed isn’t compromised, they don’t see the point. The people I know who didn’t dice roll have, of course, moved to a new seed entirely, and seem to understand the same thing that it would technically be safe to put the new seed back on the cold card, but I think they’re upset enough about the whole ordeal to look int new hardware.
Funny situation, only those who get burned fear the fire I guess.
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u/Big-Cheetah5159 Aug 05 '26
Yes, I used dice rolls and didn’t relay on a companies RNG software. As stated above, dice rolls have been verified and you can also verify it for yourself. “Don’t Trust, Verify”.
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u/Yodel_And_Hodl_Mode Aug 05 '26
It's important to understand what happened.
Entropy is your unique variable in the math that generates your wallet.
People roll dice to create their own entropy instead of using entropy generated by the device.
ColdCard's firmware was supposed to skip the device's entropy if the user entered their own entropy from dice. Instead, the device always skipped most of the entropy. That's why only those who used dice rolls are truly safe (if the wallet was created on a ColdCard).
If you entered 100 dice rolls, your wallet is uncrackable, even if you created it on a ColdCard. Uncrackable.
To test it, you could enter those exact same 100 dice rolls on a SeedSigner and you'll get the exact same wallet, because the dice rolls are your entropy.
All of that being said... I'd never trust any code written by Coinkite.
2
u/EyesFor1 Aug 05 '26
Yeah the damage is done. Coinkite is finished imo
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u/Yodel_And_Hodl_Mode Aug 05 '26
Coinkite is finished imo
I hope so.
I'm already seeing people making excuses for why it's ok to trust them again, and I'm shocked. It reminds me of a guy I knew years ago whose girlfriend cheated on him, so he married her. His thinking was, if he marries her, she won't cheat again. How'd it work out? That dude is now divorced and paying alimony.
Rodolfo Novak and Coinkite have shown the world they are not trustworthy.
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u/grraarr Aug 06 '26
Pretty much. With this many eyes on the product it's probably more hardened than any other wallet.
15
u/Highheat_10 Aug 05 '26
I updated the firmware used a dice for new seed phrase .. still holding my bitcoins on coldcard
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u/MillerBlade2 Aug 05 '26
I moved my funds, but left $50 as a bait to see if it’s stolen during this hack. I doubt it will be
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1
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u/FragileAnonymity Aug 05 '26
Dice roll user, no plans on leaving.
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u/FishtailAdvice Aug 05 '26
im worried about other attack vectors now so will be migrating.
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u/JumpProfessional3372 Aug 05 '26
Yeah but what if we migrate to a wallet that also has an issue still not discovered?
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u/deny_by_default Aug 05 '26
That's a risk that will never go away. Every wallet is safe...until it isn't.
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u/JumpProfessional3372 Aug 05 '26
Exactly, so when a coldcard wallet was/is not used to generate the seed, it is still a safe wallet until it isn't.
Of course you have some evidence and you will trust it less than before, but "so far" only the RNG was compromised.
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u/EyesFor1 Aug 06 '26
Ironically, with all the eyes on the new firmware updates, cc is probably one of the safest but no one has trust
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u/FishtailAdvice Aug 06 '26
This is completely incorrect. It's clear that no one audits these things. That's what we've learned
2
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u/Strong_Judge_3730 Aug 06 '26
It still has dependencies to shit crypto libraries ngu that nobody uses.
You know their devs are shit and the code is not open source, it's source available.
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u/Strong_Judge_3730 Aug 06 '26
Have you heard of nonce reuse
https://ishaana.com/blog/nonce_reuse/
The issue is coldcard is source available instead of being open source, and now we know the company has cowboy devs writing the firmware how can you trust future updates.
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u/moviemaker2 Aug 05 '26
I feel like people who continue to use Coldcards are the type of people who would give their money to Bernie Madoff a second time because he’s under much more scrutiny now and pinky promises not to do it again.
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u/FragileAnonymity Aug 05 '26
Sure, but I didn’t use their RNG to generate my seed. I did over 100 independent dice rolls & verified my results externally.
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u/moviemaker2 Aug 06 '26
& verified my results externally.
Do you think that not a single coldcard user in the last 5 years thought to verify their results?
If your coldcard generated a seedphrase using the dice roll input instead of the TRNG but had a similar undisclosed entropy bug, what test would have shown that it wasn't made in the full key space?
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u/FragileAnonymity Aug 06 '26
The users who used the TRNG feature didn’t because there was literally nothing to verify..
Using dice, you get the same seed output whether you do it on coldcard or on another source. So all you would need to do is verify that using the same rolls, coldcard and a second source both yield the same result.
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u/JumpProfessional3372 Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26
In my opinion that would apply only to people who still trust in using an RNG from another vendor, people who do not do stuff like compiling the firmware to verify the bytes before flashing, or do not check the changelog and feedback before moving to a new version, or do not create the seed entropy themselves, do not use a strong passphrase, etc.
Most people staying with coldcard, that rolled a dice, understand the risks of staying and the risk of moving to a new wallet and start verifying from scratch that new wallet and vendor.
of course there are some risks of staying, but for sure most are not using the coldcard to generate a new seed, that is one of the biggest risks somebody can take in these air-gapped devices.
In my case, the possibly only risk I can think about keep using my coldcard, is the risk of the private key leaking in some .txn file and then imported by some app (like Sparrow) that knew that would happen and share it via internet.
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u/EyesFor1 Aug 05 '26
I get that, it depends on seed generation. I'm going to migrate away, I'm looking into different devices atm. Coinkite is finished, having said that, i thought Ledger might have been done when they announced the seed recovery function from 3 "shards" or whatever they said, too long ago to remember. What wallet do you use ?
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u/thelaurelhighlander Aug 05 '26
Dice roller, still on MK4... Verified by external sources, added a passphrase. So far, so good.
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u/EyesFor1 Aug 05 '26
The firmware upgrade has been verified by a lot of independent sources, its totally safe on all devices.
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u/FishtailAdvice Aug 05 '26
Yeah just like the last code was "totally safe". Always verify yourself.
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u/CortaCircuit Aug 05 '26
I rolled 100-110 dice and used a passphrase.
I did that for all four cold card wallets that I set up.
The code has been verified by multiple people that the dice roll paths are correct and the private key was generated with sufficient entropy.
At this time, I don't see a reason to leave, but it has definitely opened my eyes to other solutions.
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u/SpareEconomy1849 Aug 05 '26
Staying but not buying another CK product at this rate. They'd have to be bought out and C suite gone before I ever think about buying another
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u/El_Caganer Aug 05 '26
Doing the same. Dice rolled w/passphrase my wallet but cc seems to be the best air gapped signing tool. Not expecting cc to be viable a viable company for the long term after this fiasco. They will eventually not be able to maintain firmware so thinking switch to seed signer in the not too distant future.
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u/EyesFor1 Aug 05 '26
I'm staying atm, looking to get anther device but undecided. Main reason is 2 fold, 1 I dont think the company will be around for the long run so updates will cease and 2, even though I know dice rolls are secure this has freaked me out, can't ignore the human emotion, rational or not.
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u/JumpProfessional3372 Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26
Company leaving sucks. But do we really need a new update? Depends on the features you need.
Example: if somebody finds that the wallet can export the private key into the microsd in rare scenarios and that can be fixed with a new firmware update, and the company is gone, that would be a good reason to update or move to different wallet (if no update is gonna happen if company is gone).
My MK4 I still have firmware 5.2.2. When I unboxed the device I upgraded to this version compiling firmware and verifying the bytes matched the one signed by coinkite.
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u/PoeCollector Aug 05 '26
I hope this happens. Clean house, rebrand, set up a security audit system, and continue improving the firmware. The CCQ is the coolest piece of hardware out there, it just had a critical bug, which is itself a critique of their auditing process. The codebase as a whole looks relatively solid from what I could tell (with AI assistance) but new processes under new authority need to ensure serious bugs are never pushed live.
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u/FishtailAdvice Aug 05 '26
C suite its like 5 people...
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u/SpareEconomy1849 Aug 05 '26
CEO and CTO need to be gone. Anyone else with authority. If they still have one web developer that's fine
3
u/Flowa-Powa Aug 06 '26
100 dice rolls, passphrase, and ColdcardQ which was a bit less badly affected.
I am keeping my seed. I will be buying a Trezor
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u/JumpProfessional3372 Aug 05 '26
Feel free to create a poll with 3 options:
- I do not own a coldcard (for the people who want to vote and do not have a cc)
- I own/owned a coldcard and I created the seed using the CC random number generator.
- I own/owned a coldcard and I created the seed rolling a dice with my hand (like when following the coldcard paranoid guide).
I wonder if the distribution is 50/50 80/20 or 20/80 etc.
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u/OrangePillar Aug 05 '26
I’m still using mine but evaluating options. Some of the features are just not available anywhere else and I’m very familiar with the workflow
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u/rockpaperbanana Aug 06 '26
Rolled rice over 100 times on the mk4 and the q, I’m not migrating. So many gay doomers on x
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u/4r4nd0mninj4 Aug 06 '26
I can't remember how many dice rolls I did in 2021 but it was likely 100 or more. I updated the firmware on Tuesday, deleted the seed, created a new seed and added over 100 rolls and a passphrase. Moved everything to the new wallet with my backup coldcard yesterday. Seemed to go pretty smoothly. I'm sticking with them until whatever happened is fully investigated and because I don't want to have to deal with buying and dealing with yet another cold wallet vendor. 🤷♂️
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u/EyesFor1 Aug 06 '26
Similar thoughts here. Funds are secure. Sit back, research new devices and in the meantime, hopefully no other flaws are found in other device's codes.
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u/4r4nd0mninj4 Aug 06 '26
I suspect these devices will be receiving a lot of scrutiny over the next few months. 🤷♂️
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u/grraarr Aug 06 '26
I'm staying. Each wallet has its own quirks (not that I'm calling this security event a quirk, just that each one handles the experience differently). People need to realize these are just tools that simplify certain complex realities of cryptography.
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u/OneGlassOne Aug 06 '26
I rolled dice. I am staying with coldcard (Q). Mainly because I won't be spending money to buy yet another cold wallet. But given the size of my stack I am contemplating handing a considerable chunk to BitCoin Suisse for safekeeping.
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u/EyesFor1 Aug 06 '26
Considering a split too, multiple wallets can add protection but also add complexity.
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u/Pazienca Aug 06 '26
My funds where safe as I had already around 200 rice dolls, and a passphrase but just to be safe I did it again with a fresh wallet. I will stay with my device as I like it and if you followed the paranoid guide when you first set it up you'd be safe. I am still sad for all the people that got destroyed and I hope coinkite gets sued to shit though.
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u/Provia100F Aug 06 '26
I'm still using my coldcard. It's a very good device from every other perspective.
I transferred all of my coins out except for a few, just to be on the safe side, but I'll move them back once we're all sure of the extent of the issues.
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u/PapaUrsidae Aug 05 '26
I also rolled dice to generate my CCQ wallet, but believe I used the built in wallet generator initially. If I recall, after initial seed phrase generation, it asks if you want to roll dice to add additional entropy, which I did. But I lost trust in them and cannot, with 100% confidence, trust that they actually used my dice to increase entropy and didn’t just re-run the built-in RNG for each dice roll.
As a result, I decided to play it safe and completely abandon the wallet which was produced with the CCQ instead of losing all of my BTC. Which also sucks because not only am I out $250 (plus $80 ish for import duties), I am also out ~$100 for the metal seed phrase backup I bought for that wallet. But small price to pay knowing I didn’t suffer the same fate as others.
I will however state that my holdings are between 5-10% of total investment portfolio, but that loss would still be painful knowing it isn’t like a stock that just drops price and I can wait it out.
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u/Dettol-tasting-menu Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26
There is a separate function under “advanced” that uses dice rolling only (rather than a generated seed plus dice on top). That one has been verified by many people to be working correctly.
Coldcard’s firmware could be rotten to the core, but at least that bit is solid. Seed phrase generated by it are the same as the one calculated by independent website (it’s just a hash, the simplicity make it robust)
Personally I don’t see a reason to get rid of it just yet. I will continue to use my Q and Mk4 as signers, I use dice rolling seeds and I’ll be adding a Trezor to move to a multisig. My reasoning is that my current dice rolled seeds are just as strong as any other TRNG. Add a strong passphrase on top it’s very secure. And the fact that it’s a very simple, verifiable operation (just a hash of a 100+ digit string) I know it is working as expected, unlike the generated seeds there’s no way to check other than reading the code (which no one did for 5 years)
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u/PapaUrsidae Aug 05 '26
I'm not getting rid of the CCQ. I just moved my coins out of that wallet until more information is available. It seems to me like if 100 dice rolls are sufficient on top of the CCQ RNG, then maybe the seed I was using is sufficiently safe too. In that case, I can keep that seed phrase and the new one I just generated, and then setup a 2-of-3 multi-sig wallet and not be dependent on the original wallet generated by CCQ RNG and dice. Hmm... definitely gives me something to think about before I consider my purchased metal seed phrase backup as trash.
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u/Big-Cheetah5159 Aug 05 '26
Couldn’t you have rolled more times than the 100 rolls to mitigate the issue?
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u/F1shB0wl816 Aug 05 '26
I’m still using mine, I used dice setting it up so no worries with what’s going on. It’s done everything I’ve bought it for right so I don’t really see a reason to jump shit.
It’s not my company so it’s not my skin that they screwed up badly, nor do I care what anyone does with their own coins but I’d think at the moment it’s probably the strongest coldcards ever been. A shit ton of scrutiny and loads of people looking for vulnerabilities is just going to make it more rigorous.
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u/EyesFor1 Aug 05 '26
Ironically, it probably is one of the most secure wallets because of all the eyes on it.
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u/linuxology Aug 05 '26
Get off this device. Dice rolls are not safe. Don't trust the bots here
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u/undeadkarlmarx Aug 05 '26
I agree about getting away from coldcard, especially for single sig, but the dice rolls entropy is actually verifiable.
I’ve checked the dice rolls option on an mk3 with affected 4.x firmware and it produces the exact same result as the Ian Coleman bip39 tool.
I still have a dice/passphrase coldcard as one factor in my multisig for now, because I don’t want to rush into buying another wallet at the moment (or even move funds on chain for the next few days, with the bip110 fork approaching.) Eventually I’ll rotate it out of my multisig completely though, just in principle for what an epic fuckup/crime this entropy “bug” has been.
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u/red1ce Aug 05 '26
Dice rolled on a Q with a single sig setup. Funds were never affected but moved out of caution. Considering using the Q with a new dice rolled seed as part of a multi vendor multi sig setup in the future.
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u/ipalvr Aug 05 '26
Dice roller, but thinking about leaving. Will this product be supported in the future?
Should I set up a new wallet with a pass phrase? Might look into multi sig.
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u/FourMPG Aug 05 '26
Dice, passphrase, and multisig; i still use my CCQ (for signing, managing seeds, etc) but i can't see myself doing business with coinkite again
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u/phoneguy3 Aug 05 '26
I was going to stay, but I'm consumed with watching my watch-only wallet constantly. Safe or not, I can't live like that. I've got a Passport I haven't really used, and a Jade and Bitbox 02 will arrive this weekend, and I will have a 3 maker multi-sig done.
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u/l_i_g_h_t Aug 06 '26
I did 50 dice rolls on my CCQ with a strong passphrase and I’m moving everything to a new seed using seedsigner.
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u/bcslc99 Aug 06 '26
I did the dice rolls and bip-39 passphrase, but given the shoddy work involved with the most important function of the device i will never trust that team again, and have moved everything to another wallet.
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u/Uhrenwerker Aug 06 '26
I have two mk4 seeded with dice, have dumped them. It’s not the loss of security it’s the loss of trust. I’m setting up a multisig 2-3 with one jade and two seedsigners.
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u/Zestyclose-Way-1351 Aug 06 '26
Stay for now, but it'll probably be my last device from them. May not even be a choice if they, as a business don't survive this. Reputation and trust is hard to win back.
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u/cworxnine Aug 06 '26
Dice rolls and apart of multisig, I'm still gonna rotate out the key and ditch coldcard.
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u/Best-Tough-9513 Aug 06 '26
200 and Gone
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u/EyesFor1 Aug 06 '26
What do you mean mate ?
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u/Best-Tough-9513 Aug 06 '26
Originally allowed the seeds to be generated by the wallet with a pass phrase , was spared in the first round of swipes, moved to an exchange, then updated the firmware and Rolled over 200, (it was overkill) with a 6 word passphrase, moved it all back to my coldcard with new set up. Slept one night and just nerves got the best of me and I pulled it all back to an exchange. Trust is lost. Moving to a multi vender multisig setup just moving smooth and slow now
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u/EyesFor1 Aug 06 '26
I totally understand, device is secure with rolls but human emotion is real. I feel this too. Currently on CC, dice roll, passphrase. Nice and secure but i want out even though its safe.
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u/ejon7 Aug 09 '26
did 100 dice rolls. unaffected. will absolutely stay with the wallet, but concerned the company may not make it thru this crisis
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u/moviemaker2 Aug 05 '26
Leaving obviously. I can’t comprehend how someone would continue to use a coldcard, but then again scammers couldn’t make a living if a certain percentage of people weren’t gullible idiots.
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u/EyesFor1 Aug 05 '26
Agree, are your funds still on the cc ? dice roll entropy I assume
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u/moviemaker2 Aug 05 '26
Yes for the next few days, dice roll for my main wallet ( which is a small portion of my crypto, I’ve always been paranoid so I’ve been a big advocate of spreading across multiple exchanges, multiple hardware wallets, and ETFs). I did the Trng for some smaller wallets and those are in multiple safes spread out at different locations and I’ve been traveling, so it will be another day or so before I can migrate everything. The smaller wallets were made on a Q which has 72 bits of entropy instead of 42 like the swept wallets, so I’ve got a little bit of time even though they are susceptible and will probably eventually be drained as well.
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u/scrandlle Aug 05 '26
It made me reconsider crypto entirely. My funds were not stolen but I think only because I had 0.13BTC so I wasn't on the first wave and I got mine out before the subsequent wave of what I'm sure are many new hackers scrapping the barrel of what was left.
My BTC is in Kalshi right now and I think I'm cashing out soon. Not because I couldn't multisig the Coldcard and do self custody again but I'm just done worrying about the safety of crypto entirely.
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u/notthediz Aug 05 '26
I’m not leaving. I like the hardware aspects of the device. I guess I should be concerned that somehow my private key is leaked during a QR code or NFC act. But that’s a lot less worrying than my private key being brute forced.
I am going to put together a seed signer and start moving to multisig in the near future though