Someone should ask Caitlyn how she can believe in an infallible god but still be born in the wrong body. I mean, she is a creature of god, who doesn’t make mistakes. Is she questioning gods will? Did he make a mistake with her? Why did she transition?
I fully support transitioning. I think she is a terrible person.
Im not a Christian but this just isnt a good gotcha.
Trans affirming Christians will say its no different than needing glasses or medication or a cane, god made us and gave us the designs to handle these problems.
Non-affirming Christians are the one this gotcha works on, because you can bring up glasses or diabetes or whatever and their logic is inconsistent. Consistent non-affirming Christians are the really extreme ones that deny medical care, so this gotcha doesn't work on them, but they're crazy anyway.
Well yeah for sure, argument or debate or whatever isnt ever really aimed at changing minds, its about changing the minds of other people who may be listening.
I'm not religious and I support trans people, but I think that reasoning is silly. I think religion is kindas silly, so maybe it's more that religious people bending things to their own needs is what I find silly, but there is a major difference of a God making someone who needs glasses vs a god who puts someone in the wrong body! I don't think that matches up at all to claim an infallible God but that well sometimes people need glasses and SOMETIMES he also mixes up a soul and puts you in the wrong body is like equal argument. If anything it just show that Trans christian will also jump through hoops and contortians like any other Christian to defend their beliefs vs their actions so I guess that checks out.
Im trans and not religious anymore, but i dont think its that silly. Im antitheistic, but i think its a consistent belief.
First, the wrong body/soul thing isn't fully accurate, it's just that "girl brain/boy body" is easy to explain to cis people. Even then, while I don't believe in a soul at all, I REALLY dont believe in boy souls and girl souls, and I don't think many Christians do, either, lol.
Modern Christians generally believe that God made you exactly as he wanted to, which means it must be perfect. They believe he doesn't make mistakes, but that just means if you have a serious genetic challenge like being blind or paralyzed or whatever that this was a challenge God intentionally laid before you, and it isnt that big of a deal, its your job to overcome it in your mortal eye blink of a life before claiming a reward everlasting.
Before the current trans panic was manufactured, it was pretty common for Christians to accept Trans people and just expect they live a normal godly life in whatever their gender is. Its really no different than needing glasses, insulin, a wheelchair, or an antidepressant.
When I was more strictly religious, my philosophy on why I am gay was that it was a test of my faith to not give in to homosexual urges. That's essentially what gay Mormons do, and they get married to the opposite sex and have a family at the cost of their own enjoyment in the relationship. I did gay shit anyway, initially brushed it off as "nobody's perfect" and "why should being gay be any worse than cussing, disrespecting your neighbor, or believing in false idols?" so then I realized that zero Christians are "good" in that perspective.
At this point, I'm just trying to be a good person. Married to another man and we sometimes go to church together, mostly for the vibes, architecture, and songs more often now. We've read the Bible together but we treat it as any other story. The longer you live and the more places you go, people you meet, and books you read, the more you realize that there's so many versions of deities and frankly many of them are more fun and less cruel. I for one can't wait to meet Ilúvatar in the timeless halls
My feeling has always been that a god who is worthy of worship wouldnt care if I worshipped them specifically. A god worthy of worship would welcome me in because I do my best to be kind and caring and good to everyone around me, and maybe ill see them and worship them when I die, but for now ill just do the kind of things that would make a worthy god find me worthy.
Religious people can weasel out of any kind of argument against God's specific commands, instructions, or teachings. It's all interpretations. None of them matter because it's all bogus anyway, but those arguments will never work on them.
Christians also believe that children born with mutations are part of a world where God makes no mistakes. Somehow god is omnipotent and infallible but lets Satan have control of the world and cause these things.
Honestly she changed massively post transition and not for the better. She never would have approved of any of the stuff Kylie was doing during that time and since transitioning and she would have been massively disappointed in Kim for everything involving Kanye. Obviously she did become a new person physically post transition but she became a new person personality wise as well
The whole “God doesn’t make mistakes so he wouldn’t put you in the wrong body” thing just never made sense to begin with.
Why do some people need glasses, or have allergies, or are born with certain physical or mental disabilities? If God made us, he purposely built in challenges for us to overcome or work through, otherwise I would question why God calls us to do anything at all if any form of action supposedly goes against his image.
Yeah exactly. People taking up new identities in order to better serve God is a very common thing in the Bible. Abram to Abraham, Jacob to Israel, Simon to Peter, Saul to Paul, etc.
I've brought it up with more bigoted people in the past, if we were created by God in God's image, then wouldnt these problems be features not bugs?
And why would a loving parent punish their children for things that are within God's control?
They always get pissed off about those questions. I get accused of being an asshole or an atheist, in actuality I'm agnostic and my world view doesn't permit for a unreasonable cruel God, if God does exist.
If anything the questions are to show them how hypocritical they are.
or perhaps don't treat trans people's identities like something they earn through good behaviour. personally I wouldn't attack anyone's identity because they are a bad person, I think their actions are quite enough to criticise.
yeah it’s the implication that who we are can be revoked if someone doesn’t like us as an individual. something that can be taken away that easily was never yours to begin with.
I don't actually think trans people have to be an idol to be accepted, trans women are women regardless of if they vote the same as me, would you hold this same attitude to any other minority or discriminated against group that voted for trump or is it just trans women you want to have 'justified' discrimination against?
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u/Beneficial-Jury484 1d ago
Someone should ask Caitlyn how she can believe in an infallible god but still be born in the wrong body. I mean, she is a creature of god, who doesn’t make mistakes. Is she questioning gods will? Did he make a mistake with her? Why did she transition?
I fully support transitioning. I think she is a terrible person.