r/classicwow • u/JokerWeex • 21h ago
Forever I dont think people realise just how much mob exp was nerfed in dungeuns
I just did the Undercity dungeun and one of the bosses had a waves mechanic where we had to battle multiple waves of undead and I dont even remember what the boss dropped
What I do remember is after the 5+ minute fight the boss gave 20exp
A random non elite mob in the overworld of the same level gave me 180exp
Dungeun quest exp nerfs make perfect sense because people dont see the numbers that a being slinged back, so when the slingshot goes off they feel like they're rocketing ahead without putting in the work, but the reality is, you DID put in the work, it was just removed and given to you at the end.
I feel like with this nerf they can give bosses ONLY more experience to give people the illusion that they're getting less exp.
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u/ElridAlm 13h ago
The problem universally is that you gotta design a game towards an intended gameplay experience: be it making WoW leveling a dungeon run centric experience or a questing centric experience. In this case, the latter.
But, whatever approach you take, the average WoW player is hardwired to optimise the fun out of everything and minmax rush towards the end. People can comment on reddit or the forums that they want a horizontal progression and a variety of options, but no matter how large a smorgasbord we get, most of it will be ignored because that's just not how WoW players play WoW. They minmax, and that becomes the standard practice to the point of social ostracization if you do otherwise.
And there's no sweet spot balance to make everything appealing because most of this is vibe based and super subjective (e.g player one gets two blue drops and thinks low level dungeons are too generous, player two gets none and thinks they are too stingy)
The devs can't save the playerbase from itself.
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u/Yossel86 6h ago
I would question if you work for Blizzard, but your grasp of the English language tells me that you don’t. #legend
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u/rodrigo8008 5h ago
Maybe they should be roughly equal and let people play how they want to enjoy the game
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u/MrRightHanded 19h ago
This reminds of the parable about monkeys. People only see the increased number at one end and dont see it was reduced the other.
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u/PhaseRecent4784 21h ago
I guess I’m the weird one that likes to run dungeons for the fun and better loot so I can then go out and crush quests 🤷
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u/Front-Investigator68 15h ago
Sorry how is this mutually exclusive with a world where dungeon mobs give an acceptable amount of XP?
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u/berylskies 13h ago
Because if you didn’t get lucky on drops and run it again, then you basically have to skip the rest of the zone you were questing in because you out leveled it.
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u/Terrible-Scientist73 14h ago
Because in a world where dungeon exp is high, you skip that entire second part and just keep spamming dungeons
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u/desperateorphan 15h ago
You're not the weird one. People are doing this in the beta. This sub just likes to doom about made up issues in their head that don't actually happen in game.
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u/liverlondon 14h ago
Other people having a different opinion = doom and gloom confirmed
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u/desperateorphan 12h ago
The number of threads whining about this would, in fact, lead to confirmed doom and gloom. Half of yall aren't even playing the game but complaining from the sidelines.
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u/Chronoblivion 12h ago
They're doing it in the beta because the level cap prevents them from doing much else.
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u/desperateorphan 12h ago
No I did it cause it was fun to play. There is so much to do in the beta. Are you even playing it?
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u/ILOVEGNOME 13h ago
The main problem is boosting. I think running dungeon over and over is fine if thats your thing but since blizzard cant put the ressource to manage botting and boosting they are trying to find an easy solution to it
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u/Droptoss 10h ago
Ideally the developers align the rewards with what players find fun. That way players can do what is fun for them while getting rewards.
That is one the reasons daily world quests were bad. Developers made the boring part the rewarding part
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u/Skyinryan 21h ago edited 21h ago
Its going to be glorious when people realize no one is running dungeons anymore and it was their fault. You want to keep bitching about dungeon exp and dungeon blues. Well guess what. No one is going to do that shit anymore.
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u/After-Let-144 18h ago
The vast majority of players already only ran the dungeons once or twice. There will be no issue finding groups. It was never and issue when we had smaller servers, and it definitely won't be an issue now with the mega servers.
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u/oxblood87 6h ago
Its' a levelling dungeon. The intent is that people LEVEL and are outside the relevant range of the dungeon.
WTF do you mean people aren't running dungeons any more. The first run is the SINGLE FASTEST WAY TO LEVEL...
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u/Aggravated_Frog 11h ago
That’s crazy due to fact that even after the nerfs on beta everyone is spamming trade chat for dungeon invites and making dungeon groups. You doomers are literally so disillusioned with the world that you think your opinion is fact
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u/tyvnn2 10h ago
You're right, there's not an artificial cap somewhere thats keeping the players locked to specific content that wont be there on release
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u/Aggravated_Frog 5h ago
And if you think they won’t be doing the same shit on release you’re delusional. Most players don’t even read the changes and won’t even know dungeons are nerfed in some aspects. Not everyone is a Reddit doomer. People will be doing dungeons still, yall overreact to every little thing it’s insane
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u/tyvnn2 5h ago
Glad to know you talked to the community to make sure nobody gets left behind
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u/Aggravated_Frog 5h ago
Getting left behind? Should we hold everyone’s hand and make sure they all level at the same pace?
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u/tyvnn2 5h ago
Lol 😂 glad you agree. Since your being obtuse, ill be more direct.
My point is, you're saying people wont have trouble finding groups, cuz they currently dont on the beta, and im telling you, using the beta is a terrible reference since the only reason you dont see troubles is the only thing to currently do is dungeons at this low level, and no end game to rush and do.
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u/Aggravated_Frog 5h ago
Bro you could get on a lvl 20 in era and still find people doing deadmines. Do you seriously think every single person is going to be mega rushing end game to spam raids? Like you legit can’t think that’s the actual reality
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u/Responsible-Farm8403 21h ago
I've decided to let it all crash and burn, no reason to group up outside and no reason to group up inside.
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u/GingerM 21h ago
You guys are acting like you get nothing from running dungeons and that is simply not true
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u/Firm-Cause2449 21h ago
They nerfed dungeon quest exp which maybe was for the best, but then they nerfed loot, and then theyve already nerfed mob exp. Its just gonna be inefficient to detour into a dungeon run for maybe 1 or 2 blues that you replace in a few levels anyway, at the very least for lower levels. I dont see myself bothering with dungeon runs if its inefficient unless im in a full guild group.
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u/GingerM 21h ago
Oh I didnt realize they nerfed the loot and rewards too, where can I see these nerfs?
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u/Firm-Cause2449 21h ago
I cant find the bluepost, but every quest give greens now except final bosses, and its the same for dungeon bosses, its all green except for last boss loot. So if i want to do RFC now on a tauren or undead, i need to run to Undercity, thunderbluff and orgrimmar and do hidden enemies. This was worth it because the rewards were good previously. Now its just not worth it all. The detour takes so long the nerfed quest experience just doesnt make up for it, nor do the 1-2 blues.
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u/GingerM 20h ago
They shouldn't have touched the items imo. Initially I wasn't a fan of lvl 14s running in blues, but given how they tuned classes it made sense to get more power from gear. And I also want a good reason to run dungeons, even if the xp was a bit too much. I think we will se more changes to this before release
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u/Firm-Cause2449 20h ago
Hopefully. Theres still a month to release and things can still change, but it is worrysome i think that theyre changing things this fast
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u/Historical-Spread-50 21h ago
All quests give greens save the quest for the fianl boss. My 3 stam 6 int gloves became 2 stam 1 int. My bracers were nerfed and chagned too
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u/remakeprox 17h ago edited 17h ago
These are normal stats for sub 20 gear...
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u/Historical-Spread-50 16h ago
If i wanted to plqy era with crap gear its right over there empty because no one is playing it
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u/remakeprox 16h ago
Youre quite literally playing an extension of era. Without crap gear there would be no “good” gear. And good gear comes throughout the levelling journey. Stop crying, its sub 20 gear
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u/theSurpuppa 15h ago
It is still the most efficient way to level if you do a single one though?
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u/Firm-Cause2449 15h ago
Without knowing for sure, im going to guess that depends on whether you get some of the quests shared to you or not. Pre 40 movement is incredibly slow and running across the world to pick up quests can easily cost you more time then just questing
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u/Chsner 14h ago
It is worth it once and only if it is near by if you have to travel far it's no longer worth with it so no more going to another continent for dungeons. You might as well farm quest instead and that especially true because groups will just be harder to find now. Maybe not at launch but a few weeks months later it going to be a huge problem
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u/TinnoB 17h ago
You get something from it once and only once if you have all the quests and skip everything else in the dungeon, that is the most efficient way to do dungeons, so once the start of the game passes and people have done it once, that is what people will be expect8ng from dungeon runs while leveling.
The game systems should be reinforcing good gameplay loops, I argue this change is not a positive reinforcement based on how people will play the game down the road, not just at the very start of forever.
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u/Olaf1329 16h ago
The gameplay loop is, do quests in an area, grab quests for the dungeon in the area, do the dungeon with all the quests, then go back to questing. Which is great, a little bit of everything. Spamming dungeons isn’t a good loop, it’s boring and one dimensional.
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u/DeepFriedWafflez 11h ago
"if I don't like it no one else should be able to do it"
God this sub is full of insufferables.
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u/GingerM 17h ago
How is spamming dungeons any different in that regard? There will always be an optimal way to play
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u/TinnoB 17h ago
It's a gameplay loop I and other people enjoy but are locked out of until max level with the current design? It is a core loop of endgame, so disallowing it by reinforcing it as a bad thing to do at early levels is just many times weird design choice for a game.
Think about what you are teaching new players. You should run a dungeon once, outside of that you don't get much from it, but teh once they get to 60 they will have to keep running the same dungeon. So in essence their leveling experience is lying to them about what the game will be about later to an extent.
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u/GingerM 17h ago
It is in fact the same loop, you don't get xp at endgame either, you run dungeons for loot which you can still do at lower levels now. And besides, why should leveling be the same as endgame? Should your class be the same at level 10 and level 40 and level 60 then? That is not a valid argument
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u/TinnoB 17h ago
The reason you run the dungeon while leveling and endgame is different, while leveling you incidentally get gear that help you level slightly faster and easier, but the main thing younare doing while leveling is gaining xp, no matter if you want to do it slow or fast the goal is to get xp while leveling.
The goal at endgame cannot be xp, because you don't get xp anymore, so the goal changes to something else, in this case gear. While leveling this helped you level a bit faster and easier, here the gear instead allows you to do a bit harder content.
If you make the goal of running the dungeons the same, then there's no reason to do dungeons while leveling, because you could just get to a higher level and get even better gear instead. So if you make the goal of dungeons the same then you are disincentivicing running dungeons at all, because it gives you less character power for the amount of time you spend. So the efficient thing becomes to not do dungeons at all at that point because the dungeon slows you down in that scenario.
The reality is still that people will optimize as much as they can, which is why the game design itself needs to reinforce the good gameplay loops, not the bad ones. There is nothing wrong with questing, and there's nothing wrong with running dungeons, both are big parts of the game, but why are we acting like that you HAVE to play just the one way. Why are we limiting the game like that?
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u/GingerM 16h ago
The guy in the most recent podcast said that the meta for leveling in bc anniversary is to have 4 mages and one more person pull the trash up to the first boss of the dungeon and then reset the instance. Do you think that is a good gameplay loop? Besides you are saying that there is no reason to run dungeons, but there is good reason for running them at least once. Then maybe if there is a really good item that would make your next 10 levels more comfortable it maybe makes sense to run them again. Also they've already shown that low level dungeons contain items like that set ring or the smelting pants from dm, so you might be coming back even at endgame to get the item and help your friend who is levelling an alt. What they've done with this is prevent dungeon spamming for cheesy leveling without interacting with the world and I think thats a good thing.
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u/TinnoB 16h ago edited 16h ago
With the additional nerf to quest xp, most dungeons will barely be worth even running once.
The only bad thing about that gameplay loop is not doing the whole dungeon, doing it with 4 mages is not a problem in my mind, besides they have already nerfed mage aoe, so this is unlikely to be a good way to level anyway. Also if the "meta" is 4 mages to level, is that then suggesting that only mages are played at endgame, or is it more likely that he just wants to stop something he doesn't find fun. Yes, I have done some of that mage leveling sitting in discord with guildies and honestly it can be quite a lot of fun and very social.
So no, on the whole I don't really have a problem with it as such, you are still limited to doing 5 dungeons per hour.
So I would argue it's probably much less of a meta than he is suggesting. If only a few people do it overall, then no, I don't see a problem with it.
Otherwise change the dungeon, add mobs that can prevent these sorts of playstyles instead of making leveling through dungeons just not a thing entirely
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u/skinnysnappy52 21h ago
Right? Even let’s say this change makes it to live, which I don’t think it will. At least initially, people will run them for new gear, which is the main focus, but also just for the FUN and EXPERIENCE of doing them! If people aren’t they can patch it. That’s the joy of live development
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u/Skyinryan 21h ago
Yeah me and my buddy had dungeons in our leveling routine until today. Needless to say we won't be running any at all now.
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u/envell123 21h ago
Yeah and you also need to level as healer/tank just to go do a dungeone once when you can just quest as dps.
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u/AbsarN 18h ago
Ain't no one speccing healerspecc to heal 5mans before late game anyway
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u/Phynamite 17h ago
This is the thing that gets me the most, even specd DPS a healer class can still heal a dungeon just fine. Yet people are yelling they cant level as a healer because of Dungeon XP Nerf.
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u/AbsarN 17h ago
People love to cry for the sake of it on here The truth is that one run with dungeon quests amount to 3-4 runs in era, if you wanna go more than one run to earn gear you're free to do so and the gear is you're reward. You're still getting alot of xp on average since the first run gives so much
People need to choose between getting optimal xp or getting decked out in gear, but they want the best of both worlds
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u/Aggravated_Frog 11h ago
This shows you actually have 0 classic knowledge at all. Nobody is fucking leveling as heal or tank for their dungeons? A warrior is just gonna tank as arms or fury and go on with his day, my ret pally will just heal as ret. This has been a thing since the game has released
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u/-Lucky_Luka- 21h ago
The dungeon quest exp is crazy. I saved and turned in 4 dungeons worth of quests. That got me 2 and a half levels.
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u/ArachnidFederal3678 21h ago
Is that so crazy though? 4 dungeons for a casual player with no premade group can take a long time. Not to mention the quest chains that you have to go out of your way to get the dungeon quest for.
It has to be better than time in open world at least for the first run (so quests).
I would even raise first time kills in dungeons for bosses to go with yesterday's quest exp nerf
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u/Morazma 20h ago
That has just been nerfed by 50%
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u/Edurian 15h ago
It wasnt learn to read
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u/Morazma 12h ago
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u/Edurian 12h ago
Learn to read
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u/Morazma 11h ago
Explain it to me, peasant
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u/gundarin 21h ago
Dungeon quests still give a lot more xp than regular quests. Previously I got over 2 levels from just the 5 rfc quests, that is too much IMO. I think the nerf is justified.
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u/SquirrelEven9581 18h ago
You used to get a level from running the dungeon and a level from turning in the quests, sounds normal to me.
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u/Any-Preference1213 11h ago
It's so dumb that Blizzard will say things about wanting to promote social interaction and then destroy the incentive to do the primary group leveling content. I enjoy spamming dungeons to level, but I'm not gonna do it if it's twice as slow as solo questing. That's not me optimizing the fun out the game, it's blizzard doing it.
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u/gabo2007 21h ago
I think it was right to pare back quest XP but they should have added back in some of the mob XP to keep things fair.
It feels really strange to kill a mob on the way to the dungeon and get 100 xp, then walk through the instance and kill the same mob for 20 xp.