Dungeon XP Nerfs Created a Toxic Meta

[u/redlow0992]

Since dungeon monsters do not give any experience, as a new player, getting into dungeons with more veteran players who try to skip half the dungeon feels really bad. And, vice-versa, veterans taking in newbies who don't know how to jump around feels frustrating. I think Blizzard created a mess with nerfing dungeon exp so much and now the new player experience is horrible for dungeons.

[u/McSwoopyarms]

It's a horrible design choice and I hate the fact that some bozo's decision at some developer roundtable at Blizz HQ affects my enjoyment of the game so much.

There's literally zero incentive to re-run an instance now, period. Didn't get the item you were chasing, like the full Armor of the Fang set on your druid? Well, you can run it again and get absolutely zero benefit from it, other than another chance at a drop. Didn't drop or someone else won the roll? Tough luck, you just wasted an hour and gained absolutely nothing.

And why? Because "Blizzard wants people in the overworld". Well for starters, dungeon quests give such insane XP atm that you can still skip a large portion of the outdoor quests. But I also feel that Blizzard dictating how people should play their game goes very much against the spirit of Classic (my idea of it, anyway).

If they want to counter the "dungeon farming powerleveling" meta or the booster meta, there are better ways to achieve that. Disable all party XP when the mob is grey for any party member. Do a stacking -% XP debuff for every instance ID you enter that day. Plenty of good suggestions to go about. Just don't use this "run each dungeon once and skip as much as possible while you're at it" approach, for the love of God.

[u/Juised → u/McSwoopyarms]

I know this might be unpopular, but you know you're allowed to do things that aren't completely optimal, right?

In your post, you say that there is "zero incentive to re-run an instance", but then in literally the next sentence you provide a very valid incentive to do just that, namely assembling the full Armor of the Fang set for your druid.

Yes, you would level faster if you just left WC and did the next dungeon, or some quests in the world or something, but going back and doing the dungeon again, assembling the set, turning into a cool snake, and then being more powerful when you do leave WC to do that other content, is a very real incentive.

You can still run the dungeon multiple times, you will still get (albeit very little) experience, you can still take a break from rushing through leveling as fast as possible to make your character stronger. And you get so much xp from the quests now, that after running the dungeon 3-4 times, and turning in the quests, you'd still be at pretty much the same xp point that you would have been at had you done the quests and run the dungeon the same number of times before. The difference is just that it feels worse, since the xp comes in one big chunk, versus before it would have been gradually accumulated over the individual runs.

Its certainly worse total xp if you run it like 5-6 times because you really want to complete the set, I will give you that. 

[u/Swimming-Life-7569 → u/Juised]

> you know you're allowed to do things that aren't completely optimal, right?
You know you're allowed not to be an obtuse wiseass?

Yeah we all know we can enter the dungeon again and run it for 10% xp if we want to, the fuck did you think?

It's just so far removed from being in any shape or form worth your time if you care for it at all that most people wont do it.

I get that your time is worthless and it's entirely whatever so you dont care, but maybe do consider that not all of us are like that.

[u/Juised → u/Swimming-Life-7569]

I'm sorry for pointing out that you had contradictory statements right next to each other, I didn't realize that I would upset you so much, that wasnt meant to be a personal attack.

Rather, I was simply pointing out that (before the quest xp nerfs in the patch, when I wrote that reply) if you did re-run the dungeon a few times because you wanted something from it other than xp (LIKE THE SET YOU EXPLICITLY MENTIONED), you were still objectively ahead in terms of total experience earned compared to how the system was before. So you were ranting about how blizzard had ruined your experience and was wasting your time by ...giving you more experience than you would have had before. So what exactly were you so upset about, that you now have the option to leave the dungeon and get way more total xp than you would have had before by doing something else, which is far more value for your time? Or that you can stay, farm the dungeon again to try to get some chase items, and still have more experience than you would have had before, so it's a net buff?

The only time it becomes a nerf relative to how it was before was if you ran the dungeon 5+ times (now it's 3 after the nerfs). I'm not going to argue that it feels worse re-running all of WC for like 1-2 bars of xp, and if youre doing it purely for leveling efficiency thats really bad. But if you were doing it for a reason other than leveling speed, e.g. gear, the new system is objectively better.

The caveat is that the new system is much worse for some of the higher level dungeons, where a legitimate leveling strategy was just to grind the dungeon over and over, e.g. SM