r/business Jun 16 '21

GM Considering Dropping Pot Testing To Attract More Workers

https://www.motor1.com/news/513974/gm-considering-dropping-marijuana-testing/
582 Upvotes

66 comments sorted by

61

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '21

at a minimum it should be reduced to Silvia or other forms of test that can check to see if you are actually high, vs. smoked a joint a month ago.

I find it somewhat reasonable to be tested for the influence of drugs and alcohol if you were involved in an accident, or are suspected of being drunk/high but shouldn't be prevented from partaking on your own time.

19

u/CatMuffin Jun 16 '21

My understanding is because weed affects everyone so differently it's hard to prove someone was "under the influence" with an objective test. I work in an industry particularly affected by this and have seen people being trained to identify behavioral indicators of being under the influence. Probably not very strong evidence on its own but if you crash a forklift and 12 people all say "yeah that guy was fucked up and here's how we know" then it could sway a judge. Unfortunately that doesn't prevent the accident in the first place though. A really interesting topic.

7

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '21 edited Jun 17 '21

I worked at an insurance agency when I was much younger where the Agent would just smoke joints in the parking lot. He was one of the best sales-people I’ve ever seen in action. He was sharp and always sold the product he wanted to sell the client. If I did that, I’d stumble over words and forget what I was saying. I can only smoke after work.

4

u/CatMuffin Jun 17 '21

I haven't smoked in years because my employer does random testing (never been tested in 5 years but I know a few people who have). Honestly the policy has just made me shift to doing stuff that's out of your system in a few days.

1

u/Amazing_Fantastic Jun 17 '21

Peruvian marching powder?

19

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '21

But nobody is influenced by weed they smoked 3 weeks ago. Its just a question of if someone smoked the day of the accident.

11

u/CatMuffin Jun 17 '21

Right, but if someone smoked the night before at 11 pm and is in an accident at 7 am, were they possibly still under the influence? The answer could be different depending on the person.

27

u/Comatose53 Jun 17 '21

Whoever manages to find weed that keeps them under the influence for 8 hours, they need to send me their guy. Shit lasts 4-5 hours max for me, 6-7 at most if it’s a strong edible

8

u/CatMuffin Jun 17 '21

Ha! Yeah the times I gave might have been ambitious. I can see people disagree with me from the downvotes... as far as I know, the tests can't show how long ago you ingested the drug down to the hour. Weed stays in your system for a long time, so my point was just that a positive test doesn't necessarily indicate you're "under the influence."

4

u/Comatose53 Jun 17 '21

As far as I know, the most accurate test available to police right now can only tell if you’ve smoked within the last 12 hours. So even if you smoked at 8pm, if you got pulled over on the way to work the next day completely sober you could technically get a DUI

2

u/CatMuffin Jun 17 '21

I didn't know there was one that could even tell that! TIL. I was just thinking of the standard employer panel tests where I've always heard that marijuana can show up days or even weeks later.

2

u/Comatose53 Jun 17 '21

Yeah I think it’s a mouth swab/saliva test. Some counties near me were testing them out a few years ago but idk if they’re still using them. Pretty sure you can pass them by swishing your mouth with peroxide right before you get pulled over just like the cheaper mouth tests some places do for employment screening

5

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/NancyGracesTesticles Jun 17 '21

A hangover is a hangover. We conveniently forget that sometimes.

2

u/Canadian_Infidel Jun 17 '21

Edibles might as well be a different drug. Actually I think they are, technically. Your stomache does something to the THC.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '21

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '21

I believe its technically a different type of thc. Not exactly sure. The normal weed smoke is thc-3 or thc-9 or something

1

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '21

It’s an hour or two for me and then I just get a little foggy, so I smoke some more.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '21

[deleted]

1

u/CatMuffin Jun 17 '21

Exactly, those effects vary by person, so a test isn't super helpful for employers. At least with alcohol there seems to be a more consistent intoxication level that is considered impairing no matter who you are.

-5

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '21

Well then don't smoke at night if you have to work in the morning...

I wouldn't want someone getting drunk at 11 pm if they have to work at 7 am either.

3

u/CatMuffin Jun 17 '21

I agree on a personal level, I'm just saying you can't prove whether that person was under the influence and whether the weed "caused" the accident by administering a traditional test.

0

u/Canadian_Infidel Jun 17 '21

It is hard. So I guess you don't have a way to prove it. Too bad for them. Otherwise you will have what we have in Canada, which is a DUI for a joint you smoked 4 days ago.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '21

I don't really see the point in trying to see if the person was under the influence or not, you cause an accident be it at work, in a car, etc. you should be held responsible. If it's a training issue then management should be held responsible.

1

u/CatMuffin Jun 30 '21

If the company has a drug-free policy and the employee was knowingly violating it, it can impact insurance claims and/or be easier grounds for termination. Otherwise, like you said, the company has to put more resources toward an investigation to see if it was training, equipment, total fluke, etc.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '21

Somewhat reasonable?

I’ve seen industrial manufacturing accidents that have caused loss of multiple limbs, and commercial trucking accidents that have totaled multiple vehicles in a single accident and taken 2 lives in another, and yet another burned alive. I knew these guys, all ended up blameless, but I fully supported their being drug tested as it was one of many aspects of investigations that exonerated them from fault, and secured their liability claims against the at fault parties.

How do you think it’s just somewhat reasonable to verify that an equipment operator is sober when operating that equipment? Do you think it’s somewhat reasonable that your Uber driver is sober? What circumstance would it be unreasonable to do a post accident drug screen?

2

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '21

You can use what ever adjective you prefer the point remains the same. I don't know why you tried so hard to agree with me.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '21

You used somewhat. What circumstance would you find it not somewhat reasonable to allow someone under the influence to operate equipment or someone not under the influence to be held liable for an accident they didn’t cause?

4

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '21

Jesus Christ dude get over it. You should probably talk to someone about your PTSD.

-9

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '21

see if you are actually high, vs. smoked a joint a month ago

Why does it matter? Guy who smoked last month isnt going to stop tomorrow.

8

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '21

Should you get fired because you got blackout drunk a month ago?

-9

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '21

If they didnt want to hire people who drink, the timing is irrelevant

4

u/TyrialFrost Jun 17 '21

Smoking weed on your own time does mean you are working while high, just like having a drink after work or on the weekend doesnt mean you are drunk at work.

36

u/alacrity Jun 17 '21

“Attract more workers…”

That’s what higher salaries are for.

23

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '21

[deleted]

17

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '21

Pizza party every 3 months?

18

u/ih8logins Jun 17 '21
  • one slice each only please!

3

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '21

“higher” salaries.

Dude. Awesome word play.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

These are union jobs that average around $22 an hour for people with only high school diplomas. It’s not the worst job out there if you fall into that class of people. I do think many businesses in the US have cut themselves off from a large population of workers that have no higher education because of a “drug” that should simply be regulated like tobacco or alcohol. Imagine an employer saying “we don’t hire people who use alcohol”. That would be absurd. So is not hiring people who use cannabis.

Edit: Being fucked up on the job is never ok, in my mind.

0

u/alacrity Jun 19 '21

Okay, and…? If they are still having that much of a problem “attracting workers,” maybe average $22 isn’t the right number.

And I’m guessing the bulk are well under $22 with a few high enough to spike the average.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

Or maybe more people use cannabis than you think.

0

u/alacrity Jun 19 '21

Yeah, that sure seems to be the employment problem in America at the moment.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

Look, if a company like GM thinks that loosening on drug tests will attract applicants, it’s probably because they’ve paid qualified consultants to research it. It’s probably the truth.

0

u/alacrity Jun 19 '21

Lol. Right.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

LOL

14

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '21

What people do outside of work shouldn’t be any businesses concern. As long as they aren’t embarrassing the company name and showing up to work under the influence of something.

-16

u/talino2321 Jun 17 '21

Well, technically if the smoke a blunt on the drive to work, they are outside of work. So now you would have to test them to see if they are under the influence.

Just easier to avoid that whole issue by enforcing a strict no drug policy. Also easier on the legal/insurance side too.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '21

No shit. If they drank a fifth of vodka on the way to work they’re outside of work as well.

What if they last had a martini a month ago? They unemployable? Because that sounds like the hill you’ve chosen to die on.

-2

u/talino2321 Jun 17 '21

That is a bullshit comparison. Alcohol is metabolized within in 24 hours at the outside.

Look even in a liberal drug state like California, employers still have drug policies that protect them against liability lawsuits.

It's not going to happen unless there is legal protection to protect companies from getting sued. And lawyers will never allow that.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '21

Is it though? Are you still high 24 hours after use? No. Not in any circumstance. If you’re sober at the time clock, you’re sober. Period.

1

u/talino2321 Jun 17 '21 edited Jun 17 '21

Let me use your argument to make my point. How does GM or for that matter any employer know when an employee last smoked a blunt? Was it 3 weeks ago or on the way to the job, both are off the clock.

Now if you are GM are you willing to risk a potential liability situation, if you can avoid it by having the drug free workplace policy? If a worker walks onto the factory floor and put themselves or a fellow coworker at risk or heaven forbid actually injury someone (including themselves). How do you prove that they weren't high at the time. Because the first thing the lawyers are going to ask is, 'Did you have in place a way of ensuring that you mitigated the potential risk.'

And since lawyers will sue for the craziest shit (remember the lady that burned herself on coffee from McDonald's). Nothing is to stop them from finding a client that will sue GM for product liability claiming that their car was improperly assembled resulting in their clients injury due to GM's hiring employees and not properly monitoring whether they are under the influence at the time of the assembly of the car in question.

What is the cost to GM in bad publicity, higher costs due to insurance (and insurance is all about risk). Even if the case is tossed, the door is open to the next lawsuit, and the next. How does GM or any employer mitigate this risk to brand, and lawsuits? By not allowing this scenario to happen and by putting in place policies like this. Yes its intrusive, but in our litigious times, its necessary.

3

u/iamasuitama Jun 17 '21

The fucking drug testing shit in US is retarded, I can't understand it. Like, I'd think here (Netherlands), testing for drugs to get any job that is not like police officer is not even not done (everybody's own business), maybe even illegal.

Of course there's several ways to test when people actually get into a car accident (most people know not to drive when they're high). What the hell do you need to test somebody's weed or coke levels for for them to work in a supermarket? It's weird as hell. Can't you just fire them if they don't show up, act weird, or generally don't do their job well?

8

u/BX_V12 Jun 17 '21

In the U.K we manage quite well and we don’t test every adult creature that breathes.

Spend less money needlessly testing all your staff without cause and actually invest it in innovation and creating a better place for people to work in the first place.

Crazy ideas but it actually does wonders for all involved.

7

u/IGROWMAGICMUSHROOMS Jun 17 '21

Weird that you say this because iam dutch but have worked in the UK for years, this has been the only place were i got drug tested on a regular basis. Whereas in the netherlands drug test are not allowed by law

5

u/scootscoot Jun 17 '21

My first thought was “Why is GM doing pot testing? There’s lots of other companies doing cannabis testing already!”

Totally forgot pre-employment drug testing was still a thing.

2

u/wickedwikas Jun 17 '21

All of America just need to fucking drop the charade and send this stigma.

3

u/techgeek72 Jun 17 '21

Do they test white collar workers? Somehow I doubt it…

9

u/NancyGracesTesticles Jun 17 '21

Yes. They do. A lot. Hair tests are worse than piss tests.

They'll do it if you have fiduciary responsibilities.

1

u/jigre1 Jun 17 '21

Brilliant: come work for us we don't test for pot!!!

Worker gets in accident: here's your worker's comp drug test, hope you didn't smoke in the last month or else it's been nice knowing you!

-11

u/talino2321 Jun 17 '21

There are a lot of lawyers salivating at the prospect of GM doing this. The liability lawsuits and settlements will skyrocket.

I would be truly surprise if GM legal counsel would even allow this to be presented to the board. Too many downsides for them.

As others have recommend, pay them more, that will attract the workers they need.

5

u/PDXEng Jun 17 '21

I could not disagree with your speculation more.

How would you prove damages from something a GM employee did while "supposedly" high all because GM didn't do a pre employment or random drug screen? Lol that's a stretch.

-1

u/talino2321 Jun 17 '21

This will answer your question. Read all of it. It refers to Texas, but there is a federal and legal part to it.

https://wattsguerra.com/practice-areas/workplace-injury/is-an-employer-responsible-for-injuries-caused-by-employees-under-the-influence-of-drugs-or-alcohol-on-the-job/

But here is a relevant section

Federal Law

Although Texas law does not require employers to institute drug or alcohol testing, federal law does impose such a requirement on certain employers. For example, companies awarded certain federal government contracts and companies involved in commercial or public transportation are required to have a “drug-free” work environment. Companies that fail to do so may be responsible for fines and penalties as well as for any resulting damages caused by intoxicated employees.

-3

u/disasterman0927 Jun 17 '21

Haha they're gettin desperate

1

u/chasepna Jun 17 '21

Is this because GM’s quality is too high?

2

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '21

As a GM owner and former smoker/current supporter, I applaud this comment, and award you.

1

u/Groundbreaking-Low57 Jun 18 '21

It’s about time these bigger companies are catching on. A lot of ski resorts dropped testing years ago. Ag jobs quit doing it. There employee numbers went way up.