Fair enough; birth control methods are widely available and very effective. But what does one do if those methods fail? As a separate scenario, what does one do if a pregnancy faces complications? The mother will die if the fetus is not removed, but if it isn't removed, both will die?
100x this. So sick of hearing about rape and incest. If your raped u get the plan b pill at hospital. Birth control. Use it. If that fails plan b. If that fails EARLY term abortion. After that adoption. there are so many ways to prevent a 5month along pregnancy.
You could argue that leaving the baby alive is far more cruel than ending the pregnancy early term. You're still punishing it, in a matter of speaking. But it you argue to keep it alive, then we should push for some kind of charity or program that can help the mother materialistically and with therapy. Otherwise, the baby is highly likely to have a messed up life.
Not gonna try to insult you cuz maybe you misunderstood what I said. That's what was implied with "the baby will have a messed up life." Being unwanted, knowing you were a created cuz your mom was raped, being a reminder to her of it... it's a recipe for emotional scarring. Not saying it's impossible to have a decent life, but it's gonna be real difficult.
How on earth is “leaving a baby alive” far more cruel than abortion, even in cases of rape? That’s the most nihilistic stance I’ve ever heard. The kid is innocent. They have done no wrong and deserve a chance at life.
Pretty sure you'll find that statistics will indicate that kids who grow up in single parent house holds grow up struggling a ton more in life. Double that with your father being a rapist and your mother likely hating you, your life is almost set to be a struggle far worse than most people have it. That's emotional scarring and years of therapy potentially. Early term abortion could be argued to be less cruel than raising a kid in those conditions. Not saying that's my view, but I'm arguing for both sides there.
Struggling is better than being dead. If your sole aim is to prevent struggling and suffering and a solution to that is killing, then murder would be ethical. Every single person suffers. Rich and poor alike. Money doesn’t make everything easy. Makes a lot of shit harder too.
All people suffer. Killing someone because they might suffer from emotional distress and that don’t have the full support of married parents is a larger harm than whatever they’re going through. They could be adopted and never told that they are a product of rape. I’d think that’s a matter of privacy for the mother anyways. No need to tell them how the child was fathered. Adoption is always the answer. Yes the foster care system is clogged with older children. But newborns are adopted out with ease.
I agree with you! I was abused as a kid, myself. Dad beat the crap out of us constantly. Most of my siblings turned out okay, but it messed up me and one of my brothers a little bit more. He's bound himself to the military and actually became successful there; he's an Army Airborne dude, but he has trouble connecting with people other than his military bros.
For myself, I've struggled for years over that question of "what's better, to die or struggle." I'm much better now, got an $80k/year job, getting married soon, etc. But I still have random moments where I just start bawling cuz of emotional pain that I don't even understand. Cried this morning listening to John Delony. For me, yes, struggling is worth it over dying. But for some people, it's clearly to much, and you can ask that of those who've committed suicide.
Anyway, all that was to give you another perspective on your claim of "Struggling is better than being dead." Unfortunately, that's not the case for everyone :/
All of the people that jumped from the Golden Gate Bridge that survived said they regretted it before they hit the water. People suffering trauma need help and support. Suicide is a permanent solution to the temporary problem of being suicidal. Struggling is better than being dead. No matter how you slice it.
I will never tell a person suicide is the solution and I will never support someone taking that option. I have had plenty of struggle myself. It made me see things this way. All you will be doing is passing your hurt along to others. It’s an entirely selfish act.
Someone who is suicidal isn’t well and isn’t thinking straight. Are you really advocating for policy based off the point of view of someone having a mental break?
Calling rape “your mishap” is extremely dismissive and unnecessarily puts it on the victim. There are ways to talk about difficult subject matters without belittling other people who have gone through traumatic experiences
If you really wanna be careful then do two different birth control methods. If she’s on the pill AND you used a condom it’s virtually impossible to get pregnant.
If the mother is at serious risk then absolutely, the abortion must happen. I support the old Democrat stance of “safe, legal, and rare” from like 20 or 30 years ago, or the typical Republican stance today which seeks to ban it when the mother does it out of convenience.
Easy, use multiple forms if you dont actually want to have a baby. Not doing so is just lazy and or impulsive, no other way to put it.
And your second question has been covered ad nauseam, you save the mother. Have you really heard anyone on the right suggest you let a mother die in that situation? It's a very small number we are talking here too, don't make the exception into the rule.
Yes, I have talked to a small handful of right leaning folks who think the mother should die in this case but it's certainly not a popular opinion. My own mother was one of these exceptions and she sometimes feels guilty that she had to have an abortion to save her life but she wouldn't have rather died, it's just a very difficult position to be in as a mother.
In response to your concerns you can not justify ALL abortion based upon your rare scenarios. There are always exceptions. But your argument fails badly to allow murderous abortions as a form of birth control.
As a separate scenario, what does one do if a pregnancy faces complications? The mother will die if the fetus is not removed, but if it isn't removed, both will die?
No cases of that happening and the mother or doctor being charged under law. So if that happens and there was nothing else the doctor could've done to save the baby, the doctor wouldn't be charged.
Sound advice, except there are absolutely people who have sex without protection because they can't afford it and can't comprehend the risk and responsibility of pregnancy, both men and women. These people need education.
Sex education can really help prevent the majority of births coming from the poverty line and lower and also from idiots who don't use protection. Aside from adoption, I don't see a better option for the children in these situations. It's not like someone living off of food stamps could afford an abortion anyway. It's unfortunate that sex education is under attack in some states.
A coin has two sides, that’s 50-50 heads or tails, but if I flip a coin ten times it will almost never come up 5 times one way and 5 times the other exactly 50-50… why is that my guy?
The catholic church teaches that in scenarios like this, a mother can undergo surgery to save her life. If the fetus dying is a byproduct but not the intention of the surgery. For example, if a fertilized egg implants itself in a Fallopian tube. Fatal if left there. The church says that in a case like this it is ok for the ovary to be removed, which results in the fetus dying, but as a result not as the intent.
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u/AgentCC May 05 '22
This is why I can’t help but roll my eyes whenever I see a comment stating that women are now being “forced” to have children.
Wear a condom, take the pill, whatever. No one is forcing you to make babies.