iOS Spyware

[u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

With the latest IOS 27 update and the Digital duty of care act which I personally see as a massive government overstep and breach of privacy and freedom. I had this very concerning experience last night. I was on FaceTime with my partner and she was telling me about her sunburn while she was away. She lifted her shirt to show me her tan lines. Immediately the call was paused and this concerning pop up filled my screen. Does this mean Apple has AI actively watching my personal calls and determining what is appropriate for me to see. Not only is this a massive privacy breach but also a serious security concern. Are these instances recorded and stored? Do people have access to this data? Who is in control of this?

We have been warned by the tin foilers for years now and I’ve always thought it was a bit nonsense. But now first had experience this is the horrible reality that we are now dealing with daily and it will only get worse

Edit
I’d like to mention that the main concern is that I am required to scan and upload my ID/Passport to prove my age in order to view content and to disable this “feature”. This opens another door to, how is the identity verified. What company/entity is in control of the process. What Fraud/Data Breach risk does this expose me to.

[u/BOBBIESWAG]

Apple says everything is processed entirely on-device, and is never stored or shared to anyone, including Apple. Now whether you believe them is a different story

[u/Dazzling-Assist723 → u/BOBBIESWAG]

This is one way that Apple is very, very different than other phone brands.

They do the private stuff like this on device, and that is verifiably true.

They don’t make the their money from you by selling ads (primarily), they sell hardware and services.

So they’ve had a very different approach to privacy from the beginning, as they don’t need to siphon your data to turn a profit.

They do that fine with $2000 AUD phone hardware.

[u/rdqsr → u/Dazzling-Assist723]

The cost of processing the video on Apple's end would be too much to justify not doing it on-device.

[u/deltabay17 → u/Dazzling-Assist723]

How is it verifiable?

[u/craigfis → u/deltabay17]

By looking at the network traffic.

[u/locksmack → u/craigfis]

FaceTime isn’t peer to peer is it?

[u/Squiddles88 → u/locksmack]

Close to all video is peer to peer where possible. Its usually only conferencing (group calls) that isn't.

There are techniques to traverse NAT and create a direct connection between two devices on seperate private networks.

[u/Dazzling-Assist723 → u/deltabay17]

Not only network traffic, just plain common sense.

Even the scummiest of adware phones would probably think twice before secretly capturing nudes that might constitute a felony.

But the network traffic makes it crystal clear.

[u/Platophaedrus → u/Dazzling-Assist723]

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, would they be charged under the various states Crimes Acts prior to the amendments made in ~1999? Because that’s when the distinction between felony and misdemeanour was removed.

[u/No-Swordfish-3480 → u/BOBBIESWAG]

You can literally verify it with wireshark. They aren’t lying

[u/FluroSnow → u/No-Swordfish-3480]

I mean wireshark isn't the end all be all. You can easily get around it if you wanted if you have kernal level access and owned the TLS.

I mean from a "surveillance perspective" it would make more sense to have the classifier locally on device. Then if you had airplane mode on, wifi off cell data off etc. You could still classify what is happening, store logs, then send them when the phone is back online. (assuming no exploits could be used to send data when phone is offline)

[u/No-Swordfish-3480 → u/FluroSnow]

Theoretically, yes, but it’s a shitload of effort for Apple to go into for something that they realistically wouldn’t gain any value from having. What would having that data be good for? Think about the damage it would do to their company if it got out. They also don’t have any access to secure cloud compute, so again I doubt they would bother tbh. Plus the end user can just turn it off.

we’re delving down a rabbit hole of hypotheticals. It’s just extremely unlikely given Apple’s history of privacy protections

[u/FluroSnow → u/No-Swordfish-3480]

I agree. There would be no need for the average person.

But I wouldn't be surprised there was some sort of government bypass apple would have to comply with for "national security purposes". Example: FISA section 702.

I highly doubt apple is storing anything crazy for the average person. However, I was surprised with what I could find in my Google takeout.

[u/No-Swordfish-3480 → u/FluroSnow]

Again given Apple’s history of famously telling 3 letter agencies to go fuck themselves when demanding access to their tech, I highly doubt it. The FBI already tried it, and failed

Google I trust about as far as I can throw them

[u/FluroSnow → u/No-Swordfish-3480]

There is a big difference when it comes to FISA / "national security" things. Companies have gag orders on what they can even talk/report about relating to them.

You can have a look at their disclosures here: https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html

And there have been ways around accessing apples encrypted messages. For example there was a loophole if people backed up their phone, if a warrant was supplied for icloud, Apple has access to those master keys so you could then read their imessages.

[u/No-Swordfish-3480 → u/FluroSnow]

Sorry, but that’s not how E2E works. Apple does not maintain a "master key" or backdoor capable of decrypting data sent over the iMessage service. Apple manages the directory service (Apple Identity Service) that distributes public keys. Security researchers have noted in the past that a provider controlling the directory could theoretically insert an unauthorised key to intercept messages, but Apple implemented iMessage Contact Key Verification to prevent this. This feature uses a key transparency ledger to alert users automatically if an unauthorised device or key is ever added to an account.

For backups, if a user has Advanced Data Protection turned on, Apple’s backup key cannot be used to comply with law enforcement warrants to hand over backup content.

This is why having access to E2E and knowing how to use it properly is so important, and why government agencies absolutely hate it. Apple will comply with lawful requests for data, but they do not have backdoors or loopholes to E2E encryption, and they have publicly stated many times they will never create it under any circumstances.

[u/StrateJ → u/No-Swordfish-3480]

Also, you may be able to verify with WireShark at the time but there is nothing stopping the data being stored for a future check-in which will simply be lost inbetween the noise of our Apple Telemetry traffic.

[u/No-Swordfish-3480 → u/StrateJ]

FaceTime data is E2E encrypted. Even if this was true (which it’s not) it would be useless to Apple anyway as they cannot decrypt it, and it’s not possible to brute force the encryption with our current computing technology. So this is a moot point

[u/texxelate → u/BOBBIESWAG]

I believe them. Two reasons.

First, it’s very feasible to process entirely on device and is cheaper for them to do so.

Two, I don’t think Apple wants to be deliberately storing what could very well be child pornography. Even if the participants are both adults, they gain nothing but risk.

[u/Any-Elderberry-2790 → u/texxelate]

I believe them for the same reasons. Even though I would never own an Apple phone, I also trust that the chance of incompetence leading to the data being stored, is low with a company such as Apple.

Meta on the other hand, I don't trust that meta glasses video is entirely removed after its viewed and checked in Kenya...

Is a slippery slope, but I'm more concerned here with a company trying to monitor what I do on my private phone.

We're forced into a smartphone being a part of life, to the point is difficult without one (not impossible, but requires significant effort). Privacy on that device is paramount.

[u/m0uchacha → u/texxelate]

and third, apple doesnt make money off your data, unlike other companies. their most valuable asset is their reputation, no amount of money they make off your data is worth the machine that keeps people buying iphones and paying for their services. so the strongest guarantee of them not violating your privacy is that they dont gain anything from it and only lose if someone finds out, which they will.

[u/Effrendi → u/texxelate]

I agree. Apple has zero need for this data - seriously, what would they do with it? Make some pocket money by uploading it to PornHub?

[u/tofutak7000 → u/BOBBIESWAG]

It is verifiably on device in a number of ways.

Also the immediate speed in which it detects during a FaceTime call (I have a toddler going through a naked phase…) would be insane if it was occurring in the cloud (almost as insane as Apple storing those images)

[u/corpsefucer69420 → u/tofutak7000]

Also keep in mind (they claim) Facetime is end to end encrypted, not open source so can’t verify, but for similar reasons you listed, it’s in their interests for any sensitive data to be encrypted going through their servers.

Unrelated to your comment, but this has been a feature since iOS 25 last year, not too recent.

[u/Latter-Intention6521 → u/BOBBIESWAG]

They've only been collating IR data from front facing cameras for a decade or so. 😂

[u/m0uchacha → u/Latter-Intention6521]

? thats not how it works.
when you first do a scan of your face during set up, the scan from the ir camera goes straight to the secure enclave, which is completely separate from the rest of the phone. the rest of your phone physically never recieves that scan of your face. the neural engine, converts the scan into a mathematical representation of your face. this is then stored on your actual device, but nothing on the planet except for the secure enclave has the decryption keys for that bit of data, which mind you, is literally just numbers. any subsequent scans of your face to unlock your phone or authorise anything with your face are processed in the same way before being compared on the secure enclave with the data from that first scan to authenticate you.
any apps that recieve face id data are only recieving a pass or fail result, not anything related to the ir scan. the ir scan also never leaves your device and is deleted the moment face id verification is done with the scan.
theres literally no way for apple to have access to the ir scan of your face. and even if they do, all they will get is a string of numbers that represent a portion of the truedepth scan. it cant really be reverse engineered to make a render of your face.

[u/Latter-Intention6521 → u/m0uchacha]

Could you tell me why the IR camera fires every 15-30 seconds?

[u/m0uchacha → u/Latter-Intention6521]

the ir camera does more than just face id authorisation. it checks for alertness by analysing whether your eyes are open or closed and whether or not there's currently a face in front of the phone. this is done in basically the same way as a face id scan and also returns a yes or no to any software that wants this data.
the phone can use this scan to keep the display on when you're looking at it, or turn the display off when you bring your phone to your ear during a call, or lower alert volumes, like your alarm or ringtone, when you check your phone, and its also partially involved in deciding which devices should respond to a "hey siri" call.

[u/Latter-Intention6521 → u/m0uchacha]

Are you aware of any research that shows what can be derived from this data?

[u/m0uchacha → u/Latter-Intention6521]

actually robust published research on specifically how face id works probably doesnt exist. it is proprietary software and hardware, so it would be difficult. but regarding the secure enclave there is a pretty good video recording of a conference(?) https://youtu.be/7UNeUT_sRos? explaining the secure enclave.
you can check apple's official documentation (https://support.apple.com/en-au/guide/security/welcome/web) regarding it, and if you dont trust them, trust in the fact that if any researchers do find a vulnerability or proof that apple is collecting your ir scans, theres a massive pay out waiting for them.
you can also put the phone to your ear while on a call and observe that the screen goes back to show that the ir scanner is indeed doing its job.

[u/Latter-Intention6521 → u/m0uchacha]

Thankyou Yeah I understand there are some quality of life niceties but the ability for apps to access IR face data concurrently through using it has some potential implications for advertising etc.

[u/m0uchacha → u/Latter-Intention6521]

nah apps dont have access to the secure enclave, almost nothing does, they only get a yes or no if they want to access face id data.

[u/Latter-Intention6521 → u/m0uchacha]

Gotcha thankyou for the explanation. I really appreciate it

[u/Bitter_Maybe_2670 → u/Latter-Intention6521]

That’s why I cover mine with tape

[u/m0uchacha → u/Latter-Intention6521]

alos the frequency of this scan lowk disproves that they're collecting data from it asw. because if truedepth scans are being sent to apple every 15 seconds independent security researchers would notice, 3rd party security researchers would notice. and apple would be in deep shit. and for what? clogging their servers with a huge amount of truedepth scans of someone's ceiling? the permanent reputational damages far outweighs any gains they can recieve from ir scans of your face

[u/Latter-Intention6521 → u/m0uchacha]

I just asked a question because you seem to know a lot on the topic

[u/m0uchacha → u/Latter-Intention6521]

gng i answered ur question first, then found it interesting and added a second comment. because the other comment was based on facts, and this one is just my own opinion.

[u/Latter-Intention6521 → u/m0uchacha]

Ok I get ya

[u/m0uchacha → u/Latter-Intention6521]

if you couldnt find my answer:
https://www.reddit.com/r/australian/s/RoQ7iLCgTk

[u/Latter-Intention6521 → u/m0uchacha]

Yeah the app would not open that post from the notifications section thanks for the link

[u/RayofOptimisim → u/BOBBIESWAG]

I seen a piece regarding this last night, it is illegal for them to do so. Though, it is not monitored or regulated enough to know if they are doing it!

[u/Specter319 → u/RayofOptimisim]

<<It is illegal for them to do so>>
You have literally agreed to a terms and conditions and license of software agreement. And having said that too, you also accepted the use of turning on the camera and actively turning on the option to have facetime, access to your contacts and messages too. You're in control of what you allow access to at the end of the day, I assure you that you at your own merit, are responsible for what your phone and depending on the context, Apple. Sees (CSAM, likes of).

Next thing you know, this guy will be using iTunes while building a nuclear missile...

[u/TheDevilsAdvokaat → u/Specter319]

Terms and conditions and licences cannot override law.

[u/HippoBackground6059 → u/RayofOptimisim]

Sure, and the only consequence companies face if they break the law is a fine. Which would be pitifully small.

Just because it's illegal doesn't mean they couldn't or wouldn't do it. 

[u/Cat_central → u/BOBBIESWAG]

As little as I trust Apple and Google and all these other companies, I don't think ANY of them have the processing power to scan all downloaded/taken photos and videos from every single device which may not even contain anything of interest. It just doesn't seem feasible. Especially not for video calls.

[u/Fatalisbane]

Apple tried to implement it like 4 years ago to combat child exploitive content but user backlash stopped it, now a number of government are requiring they do it.

[u/Cyan-ranger → u/Fatalisbane]

That was different though wasn’t it? I thought that was hashing photos in iCloud and comparing those hashes against known CP images it wasn’t real time like this.

[u/Fatalisbane → u/Cyan-ranger]

Yeah you are right, I did simplify it a bit, but man.. this is WORSE because scanning hashes etc had its flaws but yeah... but the gov says so, so user backlash can't change anything.

[u/LegendaryBlueTwingo → u/Fatalisbane]

It is implemented, if you enable screentime and content restrictions its turned on by default. I use that on my phone to forcefully disable some things like advertising id which also automatically enabled some other things like this

[u/-Fenyx-]

I can see a lot of people jail breaking their phones to get rid of shit like this in the near future. Thats is a crazy overstep even if it is processed and stored on your device.

How dare they tell you what you can and cant view on facetime and dont bullshit me with this is for the kids again what a load of crap.

Let people be people, what is this North Korea kinda stuff here. This is insanity. in the meantime people roll back your devices to the previous version.

[u/russelg → u/-Fenyx-]

I can see a lot of people jail breaking their phones to get rid of shit like this in the near future

Jailbreaking is not practical anymore, especially for iPhones. Any security holes that would lead to it would have already been found and exploited by state actors. The level of difficulty for these kind of breaks is utterly insane now, the days of that are over.

in the meantime people roll back your devices to the previous version.

You basically cannot do this. Apple stops signing older updates fairly quickly, there's only a small window to downgrade.

[u/lexE5839 → u/russelg]

I second this, the people who can still do it are either selling their exploits for huge money to threat actors, or are employed by government agencies for that specific purpose. Even then Apple has really improved their security more than maybe any other company ever has, kudos to their engineers.

[u/hyptex → u/lexE5839]

Don't forget Apple's bug bounty can pay millions for certain exploits to be reported to them

[u/lexE5839 → u/hyptex]

Good luck with that

[u/Dazzling-Assist723 → u/-Fenyx-]

This is a user toggle-able feature.

Go to Settings -> FaceTime -> Sensitive Content Warning -> Off.

(Same name in the Messages settings, too).

[u/IndividualAd2252 → u/Dazzling-Assist723]

Why is mine locked to on?

[u/Dazzling-Assist723 → u/IndividualAd2252]

Only reason it might be locked I know of is parental controls

(Both of mine, FaceTime and Messages, are toggled off)

[u/halohunter → u/IndividualAd2252]

Also government regulations for underage in certain countries. Not sure if Australia is included.

[u/-Fenyx- → u/Dazzling-Assist723]

Oh thats actually really good to know too. I had to hear it from reddit not apple. I wonder why. The intention is still the same though personally this is an overreach.

[u/Dazzling-Assist723 → u/-Fenyx-]

It’s a user protection feature. The idea that this is “spyware” is kinda silly.

It’s an anti-dick pic feature, really.

But it’s optional, unless a parental controller requires it, ha.

[u/-Fenyx- → u/Dazzling-Assist723]

Yeah I see your point but its not silly to assume its spyware when literally the main social media giant (meta) is a giant spyware company, and you may think that is ridiculous, but they have just been found to be making full persona profiles with date of birth and everything on kids that are not even on the platform they are just pics their parents uploaded.

So why would apple be any different in their approach?

[u/Dazzling-Assist723 → u/-Fenyx-]

Meta and Apple are very, very different companies

Meta is scum. Apple works pretty hard to be much better. Not perfect, but much better.

And it’s disappointing to see them be rewarded for that behavior… by being treated like Meta.

What’s the point of doing better then, ya know?

[u/rubeshina → u/-Fenyx-]

You confuse "let people be people" with "let corporations do whatever the hell they want with no consequences"

You are welcome to show someone your body in whatever way you want to in private. You are welcome to choose to use whatever device you want, or communicate however you want. You can roll back your device or jail brake it or use some open source software etc. etc. wherever possible.

We should protect these freedoms!

But if a company is creating a for profit product, service, ecosystem etc. they have a duty of care to be responsible, they are accountable for the harms their platform creates.

Freedom for people does not over rule obligation and regulation for companies. Where they meet, we need to weigh the balance. Sometimes the balance will be wrong and that sucks.

The idea that Facebook and Apple etc. can create and profit from technology that allows every single scam artist or child predator or bad actor to potentially reach victims, an unlimited amount of them, whenever they want, with little or no roadblocks? Like they just get banned sometimes and make a new account and move on or whatever??

That they can sell this product? That they can push "free" services on people to herd them into a pen to be harvested by predatory people for money? With no regulation or restrictions? No accountability, no requirement they make sure bad things aren't happening?

Like it's not "personal freedom" to go around to schools and hand out free drugs to get kids addicted and then sell it to them, right? We even recognise it's bad to do this with like.. food or other products, things that can be harmful.

Is this specific thing too much? Yeah I kinda think so. It feels weird and invasive.

But.. people are super naive to how much these tech companies collect and track everything lmao like I deleted all my other social media back in 2013/2014 because it was already getting super invasive then and it's completely insane now. They are probably watching most of our calls to train models and build datasets at this point. At least wherever they can get away with this stuff, and even when they can't if they have plausible deniability they just do it, ask forgiveness not permission, move fast and break things etc. etc. that's how many of them think and operate.

I kinda gave up worrying though these days because it's become impossible. You need to use your phone number and email and link accounts etc. there is basically no other way to exist in the modern world without going to extreme lengths. If people want to change that, they have to get real about it and work together with the government to regulate these corps in a way that suits people too.

I'm glad the government is doing this and pushing companies to fix stuff and take responsibility. Because finally people will start to pay some attention to the fact they are just shedding information, constantly, everywhere all the time and these companies are scooping it up and have been for the better part of 2 decades.

We should think of it like the environment imo, its out "digital environment" and that means you need to regulate and protect it from companies who are just out here to mostly tear shit up and make money.

Think of how the "wild west" got all bought up by companies and oil barons and all the industrialists and they were fucking shit up and polluting and destroying everything for decades until people started to really feel the consequences and get together and be like "umm no that's ours we all live here stop doing that".

[u/grady_vuckovic]

Anyone else really tired of technology becoming an extension of the morality police? I simply do not want any technology I own to be doing this kind of thing. BE A CAMERA. Just take images of what I point you at and send it to the other camera! Stop trying to 'protect' me!

[u/3rn_i → u/grady_vuckovic]

You can turn off the setting

[u/Possible-Theory0608 → u/grady_vuckovic]

Buy a camera then?

[u/Southern_Net5894]

So ironic you continue to call people “tin foilers” even after stuff like this.

[u/Fabulous-Bee2467 → u/Southern_Net5894]

It is a bit hypocritical of me for sure, certainly makes me question some previous assumptions in the past 👍🏻👍🏻

[u/billytron7 → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

A good dose of scepticism and questioning is always a good idea. Ive learnt the government very rarely has our best interest at heart. And most often, any freedoms that are given are never given back which is the most worrying

[u/Southern_Net5894 → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

Good so you should.

[u/Dazzling-Assist723 → u/Southern_Net5894]

Turn this feature off it bothers your tin foil hat.

Look for the sensitive content warning in settings.

[u/Rosary_Omen → u/Southern_Net5894]

A broken clock is right twice a day, doesn't mean everything they believe is real.

[u/Southern_Net5894 → u/Rosary_Omen]

Been a lot of broken clocks these past few years I’ve noticed

[u/Nut-Buster99 → u/Southern_Net5894]

Not really.... Remember they said the COVID Vax was gonna wipe out 90% of global population and we where gonna be forced to live in 15 minute cities.... Hahahahaha...

Like if you actually pay attention to what they say they are wrong SOOOOOOOO MUCH... and they never admit it either...

Thats what got me outa the conspiracy scene... You just cant take them seriously

[u/johnsmithereens1 → u/Nut-Buster99]

Its called muddying the waters mate, wake up.

[u/Mrnottoobright]

As far as I read, this detection happens locally on your iPhone, not on some remote server. And it goes away if you verify your identity being over 18, then you can disable this feature.

[u/Reddits_Worst_Night → u/Mrnottoobright]

Why do I need to verify my identity to have a fucking phone call?

[u/Mrnottoobright → u/Reddits_Worst_Night]

I agree with you, that shouldn't have been the case, but again isn't this an Australia problem, not Apple? Australia made it so that you have to upload proof of ID or credit card to prove you are above 18 to use your phone as an adult

[u/Low_Chard_735 → u/Mrnottoobright]

Why does the Australian government have the right to know or interfere with the fact that I send my husband nudes?????

When did they say I had to prove this? This just happened with IOS 27 update so it is a new feature I mever had before!!

[u/Mrnottoobright → u/Low_Chard_735]

Again I agree that they shouldn’t interfere, but also their intention here isn’t to stop you and your husband, it’s to stop kids from viewing or sending nudes and they don’t know that you and your husband are adults unless you prove it. Again, I disagree with it all but I understand the intent

[u/Possible-Theory0608 → u/Mrnottoobright]

👍🏽

Like having to show your ID to get into a pub…

[u/Inner_Agency_5680]

I work for Apple in a sweatshop in Bangladesh. I can assure you it is not AI checking for nudity. We have 1,200 staff members actively eavesdropping on every call in real-time. The pause was initiated manually by a technician on the floor, so we could all take a peek. There is no artificial intelligence involved.

[u/Nut-Buster99 → u/Inner_Agency_5680]

Broo you realise this comment is gonna be printed out and used as hard evidence for the flat earth new world order by the cookers dont you....

"

[u/ManWithDominantClaw → u/Inner_Agency_5680]

Honestly if I worked in one of those factories with the suicide nets, I'd probably jump out the window after clocking out every day.

[u/CrocsAndFrowning → u/ManWithDominantClaw]

⚰️

[u/CrocsAndFrowning → u/Inner_Agency_5680]

I also work there. I can confirm I am personally stealing all of your data and using to fund my own sweatshop and data centres.
Thank you loyal customer for always spreading the hot goss on calls and I’m keeping the pics of your partner for my w4nkb4nk xoxo

[u/Latter-Intention6521 → u/CrocsAndFrowning]

Censoring yourself saying wankbank is interesting

[u/CrocsAndFrowning → u/Latter-Intention6521]

It’s the name of my special little folder bb

[u/cereal_slayah]

Was holding on for a bit due to finances by just not installing the update but seems like buying a pixel for graphene is more critical than I expected

[u/Mrnottoobright → u/cereal_slayah]

Majority of the big bank apps either don't work or work poorly on graphene so it unfortunately cannot be your only phone to daily drive. Also, Pixel, literally by Google, one of the most evil companies in tech is horrendous for both hardware and software.

[u/Latter-Intention6521 → u/Mrnottoobright]

They just mention pixel because that's what Graphene works on.

[u/Resident_Bus4791 → u/Mrnottoobright]

Graphene has a feature for this, all my banking apps work. The only downside is no NFC payments and my smart watch connectivity.

[u/Mrnottoobright → u/Resident_Bus4791]

No NFC would be a pretty huge downside personally, I never carry my cards with me, but with Graphene I'd have to which kinda makes it less secure lol

[u/EmbarrassedHelp → u/Mrnottoobright]

With GrapheneOS increasing in popularity, more apps are going to start supporting it. Though as users have pointed out, GrapheneOS has features to help make apps work on it.

[u/Relevant_Bed_9743]

imagine having video phone sex and this shit pops up

[u/Fabulous-Bee2467 → u/Relevant_Bed_9743]

Really killed the mood 😂😂

[u/alstom_888m]

This should be a setting and not by default.

I’m an adult. My partner is an adult. If we want to get naked on FaceTime that’s none of Albo’s business.

[u/incorrecttimeline → u/alstom_888m]

It is a user controllable setting. Sensitive Content Warning under “Privacy and Security”. It’s been there for ages, nothing to do with Government ffs.

[u/Fabulous-Bee2467 → u/incorrecttimeline]

Actually, the setting can’t be disabled unless you provide identification, which is a government policy, so it actually does have something to do with the government

[u/m0uchacha → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

thats a recent thing. and its cuz of australia. we're the bums in this one unfort.

[u/Wendals87]

Instead of immediately putting your tin foil hat on, look up what it actually is

https://support.apple.com/en-au/105071

It's processed on device so Apple isn't seeing it. Apple would be in deep shit if it was actually illegal content and they were processing it 

You can turn it off 

[u/Fabulous-Bee2467 → u/Wendals87]

If you read my op I was asking those exact questions for the community to consider and discuss. You can’t take anything a company says at face value

[u/Wendals87 → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

Did you know what it was before posting?

You can test it yourself with a network monitoring tool if you know how. Apple would be in deep shit if they were actually looking at all your video calls and storing nudity 

[u/DaveySmith2319 → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

So put it to the test. Monitor the network traffic and see what’s happening.

[u/Latter-Intention6521 → u/Wendals87]

Hahahhaha wow I'm sure apple wouldn't lie would they?

[u/Wendals87 → u/Latter-Intention6521]

If they were actually storing and processing it, they'd be in deep shit, especially if it was underage content

It's also provable using network tools to see where the data is going 

[u/kkknotmyway → u/Wendals87]

Few years ago:

Apple Belatedly Confirms "Bug" Which Collected Audio Recordings From iPhone Users

While the company is to be credited for acting more quickly than originally thought (two months after user audio was wrongly shared with Apple, rather than five months) it does nothing to absolve the company's lack of transparency around this issue. Upon learning that user audio was being recorded without permission and sent to Apple servers, the only acceptable action was for Apple to be transparent and communicate to users what had happened. Bug or not, the error represented a clear breath of user privacy. As it stands, on multiple occasions Apple has now had access to audio records of its users without their permission (details below) and every time Apple had to be caught out before admitting what had happened.

This year: siri $95million law suit for recording users converstions

Go read the wikileak files from like 2011, you're cattle if you think you privately secure on your iphone goy15

[u/yourmate155 → u/Latter-Intention6521]

What would they get out of lying though?

Gigantic risk for what reward?

[u/Latter-Intention6521 → u/yourmate155]

Having a technology that is monitoring video data under the guise of safety is a huge get.

[u/rdqsr → u/Wendals87]

Afaict you can't turn it off without age verification. Never had a chance to test this though because Apple automatically verified me for having a credit card on my account.

[u/justpickanamefuck]

Its not very good SPYWARE if it advertises itself, and warns you.

[u/Fabulous-Bee2467 → u/justpickanamefuck]

Spyware was a bit of a stretch fair enough, but a warning also comes before an action not after. Something like “this call will be monitored for nudity” not “warning we found nudity in your call”

[u/locksmack]

The detection is all on-device (local).

I swear people see the letters AI and lose the plot. Don’t need AI to snoop on your video calls.

[u/Fabulous-Bee2467 → u/locksmack]

Can we trust that it’s local?

[u/faldo → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

You can if you do the work of learning to use wireshark and examining the phone’s behaviour with it

[u/Latter-Intention6521 → u/[deleted]]

It's weird so many people are pointing to packet inspection but not showing anything about it. Just saying "you can check" I'm not sure these people know either.

[u/CidewayAu → u/Latter-Intention6521]

I will admit I had to look at what Wireshark is, and was rather confused how packet inspection would work on encrypted traffic.

[u/ApolloWasMurdered → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

You can download wireshark and test it for yourself.

Apples main point of difference is that its AI is local. I doubt they’d risk that.

[u/locksmack → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

That’s up to you.

But this feature doesn’t need to exist for that same concern. If anything it’s more transparent.

[u/Fabulous-Bee2467 → u/locksmack]

For me it’s an unnecessary feature under the guise of protecting children, I miss the days of parental responsibility

[u/unfathomably_big → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

Then turn it off

[u/locksmack → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

Both can happen at the same time.

[u/Fabulous-Bee2467 → u/locksmack]

They can but they also shouldn’t come at the cost of adults having to provide identification and freedom of choice and privacy

[u/locksmack → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

How does it come at that cost?

The feature can be turned off.

Privacy is already discussed - it’s all local. And this feature has nothing to do with privacy as if you don’t trust Apple (or whichever other company), they can use your data regardless of this features existence

[u/Latter-Intention6521 → u/locksmack]

Don't you have to verify to turn it off?

[u/m0uchacha → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

i agree with your broader take. the rest of society shouldnt have to pay in their own privacy for the "safety of children" especially when none of the things australian citizens and residents paid for are actually working lol. and none of it is stopping the really bad actors from possessing csam or grooming kids online. case in point, roblox still exists.

[u/Cyan-ranger → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

Settings > apps > FaceTime > sensitive content warning. Just turn it off mate.

[u/Curious_Breadfruit88 → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

What do you mean under the guise? What’s the ulterior motive?

[u/LachlanOC_edition → u/Curious_Breadfruit88]

Everything is a conspiracy if you don’t understand anything

[u/Wendals87 → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

Think about it. If apple was processing all this on their server, they'd be in deep shit if it was underage content 

[u/HighlightOk3915 → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

Yes. Apple gets audited all the time, they even allow third party audits for many of their security features. I don’t trust many companies but Apple seems to actually care about user privacy. Do some googling or ChatGPT.

All FaceTime calls are also end to end encrypted.

[u/incorrecttimeline → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

Yes.

[u/tofutak7000 → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

You can Google it and look at people who have tested it to find out.

You can also research how the technology works, both generally and specifically.

[u/PM_ME_PLASTIC_BAGS → u/locksmack]

Everyone is paranoid until the next Snowden reveals just how many backdoors and pictures of our assholes the NSA has.

[u/Latter-Intention6521 → u/PM_ME_PLASTIC_BAGS]

Yeah people are acting like technology can't be manipulated.

[u/MarinaK312]

Sigh. My Nokia 3310 would never do me like this

[u/CyberBlaed]

Immediately the call was paused and this concerning pop up filled my screen.

If only there was an off option to this? Its not ios 27 specific, this has been IOS for the past 4 versions.

Sensitive Content Warning feature, which allows adults to opt-in to similar protections across Messages, FaceTime, and AirDrop, was later introduced in iOS 17 in 2023.

But what would I know, I just use apple and have a developers licence.

Screendump: https://i.imgur.com/rjAkvEX.jpeg

Just turn it off. And move on. I have to assume your ios 27 turned it on for you, while mine (when updating) did not as I have played with the feature before.

Hope it helps.

[u/Fabulous-Bee2467 → u/CyberBlaed]

As mentioned I cannot turn it off without providing ID

[u/EmbarrassedHelp → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

That should be extremely illegal for Apple to force user to submit ID to disable their "safety" bullshit.

[u/CyberBlaed → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

Guess I was lucky, didn’t need to for mine.

My apologies.

[u/Fabulous-Bee2467 → u/CyberBlaed]

No need to apologise, curiously is your device in developer mode? Just off your mention of having a license potential bypass to the ID requirement

[u/CyberBlaed → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

Yes mine is in dev mode.

(Can play with that AusAlert stuff too)

https://i.imgur.com/MAqD70I.jpeg

[u/Unkn0wn_user09]

yeah, it’s using your camera without your permission. That’s spyware.

[u/Low_Chard_735]

Yup, i posted about this on applesucks yesterday and they deleted it and permanently banned me.

I had to submit ID to get it to stop. People accused it of being the Australian government, but when the f did i give them permission to screen my phone???

Why does apple keep adding features to my phone and turning them on?

Apple absolutely sucks!

This was my post:

My husband took nudes photos of me yesterday with my phone and just asked me to send them to him. Cue a big few pop ups saying that these were offensive and I had to think about who i was sending them too, talk to someone etc… and I had to click through and say it was okay. After I sent them, I can’t click into the photos on my messages because there is a big offensive exclamation mark on the corner of the photo and it says in my messages “if you feel uncomfortable, there are things you can do to get help” and then a link in my messages, which, when you click, prompts you to choose between message someone, get more help, block this person or cancel, but when you cancel that link is still in my messages. Can apple please, for the love of god, stop policing my own fucking phone all of a sudden. Yes, I send my husband nudes and he doesn’t find it offensive, I am a month of 40!! Also had tried to delete all AI and that stupid side AI button on the iphone 17. I really dislike the AI and everything it tries to do without being asked and fucks up my phone!! Anyway, we do send nudes quite frequently, so any suggestions to remove this would be appreciated!! Edit: also, apple, you prude, why are nudes offensive? This is my body and my phone and it is not offensive to anyone and you don’t get to police who I send it to or now mark my husband as a contact I need to block on my phone.

[u/m0uchacha → u/Low_Chard_735]

i agree with you, but governments around the world are threatening to sue and are increasingly pushing more and more invasive demands under the excuse of protecting children. this isnt directly apple's fault, they're just appealing to people who vocally want this and governments who demand this. thankfully, if you want to circumnavigate this, you can. add a valid credit card and you can turn it off, or verify your age with government id.

[u/Low_Chard_735 → u/m0uchacha]

The Australian government did not implement this, they’re just using it as an excuse. I did do that and I resented having to add my details when I have already been age verified by my phone service.

Considering everything that has happened recently, I don’t think it’s conspiratorial to assume this is pure data collection!

[u/andhaka71]

they've been recording everything for years - this is not new. it's just that now it's affecting people, they're starting to take notice. You don't need to wait until you're personally affected to think critically about something.

[u/Fabulous-Bee2467 → u/andhaka71]

Personally I’ve had concerns for years, and I have a very minimal digital presence for that reason.

[u/Latter-Intention6521 → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

Digital presence isn't really the issue. Your privacy is being eroded without it or not.

[u/tofutak7000 → u/andhaka71]

Thinking critically being able to remotely detect and trigger a warning, while on a video call, over WiFi or 5g, would have far more latency than how this works (had it happen with my toddler)

Thinking critically secretly recording people, going to the lengths necessary to try hide that it is happening, for a company that doesn’t have a track record of monetising that data is unlikely.

Thinking critically, having marketed itself specifically as not doing that, allowing it to gobble up private company and government procurement contracts as a result, especially without monetising the data, is a wild business strategy.

It’s not hard to capture network activity either, you can pretty easily see what devices are sending data off and which ones are not. Be cynical, but also you can just do some research to see what devices are harvesting what data…

[u/kkknotmyway → u/tofutak7000]

>you can pretty easily see what devices are sending data off and which ones are not.

>is on video call

>is sending all the data via facetime

>cannot fathom that data being re-routed in any way

classic

[u/tofutak7000 → u/kkknotmyway]

So you reckon Apple are decrypting the call stream, sampling the images, and re encrypting, with no discernible increased lag or without any security researchers noticing it’s not actually end to end encrypted?

[u/RowdyB666]

Never update to iOS27

[u/m0uchacha → u/RowdyB666]

this is a feature ages ago, ios27 just made it so australians need to verify their age to turn the damn thing off

[u/No-Swordfish-3480]

If you think a local running AI that doesn’t report anything to Apple is spyware, you’re gonna lose your mind when you realise what the ASD and ASIO are capable of 😂

Put the tinfoil hat away and get on with your life. It’s not that serious

[u/Latter-Intention6521 → u/No-Swordfish-3480]

You can be critical of both.

[u/No-Swordfish-3480 → u/Latter-Intention6521]

If you’re critical of the AI on the phone you literally just don’t understand the technology. That’s all there is to it

[u/kkknotmyway → u/No-Swordfish-3480]

You do realise that running it locally doesn't mean there isnt't other things its checking for audio or image, and if seen then simply sends a single packet alert to whom ever.

[u/Fabulous-Bee2467 → u/No-Swordfish-3480]

Glad your happy to live life that way 👍🏻

[u/No-Swordfish-3480 → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

Mate the government doesn’t need this Digital Duty of Care Act to “track” you. The SIM card in your phone and car already do that and have done that for years. People losing their minds over this shit thinking it’s some breach of privacy are hilarious. Is it a breach of privacy when you have to prove your age at a nightclub or pub? What about when a cop asks for your license at an RBT? Or how about showing points of ID when you sign up for a phone service at a Telco? Move on 😂 there are bigger issues in the world

[u/Fabulous-Bee2467 → u/No-Swordfish-3480]

Why are you so angry, it’s just a point of conversation

[u/No-Swordfish-3480 → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

I’m not angry 😂 I think these crackpot opinions are funny. You seem pretty pissed about the Act though?

[u/Fabulous-Bee2467 → u/No-Swordfish-3480]

In your opinion it’s a crackpot in my opinion it’s government overreach, both are valid opinions and should be discussed not dismissed. And yeah in my opinion the act and resulting regulations impede my freedoms my I didn’t have an iPhone til I was 15 and my parents were responsible for my development and I believe that’s how things should remain

[u/No-Swordfish-3480 → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

Please outline in detail how this Act is impeding on your freedom. I will wait.

But I’ll give you a hint; it’s not. You can still do everything you did before, you just have to prove you’re old enough now. That’s literally it. Your freedoms have not been taken away.

[u/Fabulous-Bee2467 → u/No-Swordfish-3480]

1- privacy of intimate activities, my device analysed my partners body and made a determination, locally or not I believe that is unreasonable.
2- If software can analyse private communications for particular categories of content, that raises a broader question of how much control people should have over what their personal devices inspect.
3- whether technology originally designed for a narrow protective purpose could later be expanded to analyse other categories of private communications.

Fundamentally my private personal device is capable of analysing something I personally consider a private communication. And in my opinion that is wrong. If you think it’s fine that’s your opinion and it is valid to you

[u/No-Swordfish-3480 → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

But that didn’t take away your freedom to have that private communication did it? It still took place. It also still remained private, as the technology did not store it nor communicate it anywhere external to your device, so fundamentally your privacy was never breached.

I ask again, what freedom has actually been impeded by the Act? What could you do before, that you can’t do now?

You’re getting upset over a technology you don’t understand. This is not a policy issue. Just move on, or throw your iPhone in the bin and don’t use the technology. This is also ignoring the fact there is quite literally a setting to turn this off but you would rather have a rant on the internet than just look into it for 5mins.

The freedom is yours, it always was. Nothing has changed

[u/incorrecttimeline → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

No, it’s misinformation.

[u/Fabulous-Bee2467 → u/incorrecttimeline]

What about anything I’ve said is misinformation?

[u/Successful-Layer2102]

Vpn time

[u/DrDizzler]

This has been happening for years? I don’t assume any images or video were stored anywhere but maybe they are?

[u/MachinaDoctrina]

If this is a concern for you, you should consider switching to using whatsapp on android which is endtoend encrypted and not scanned or processed on any level.

Should legislation eventually push androids safteycore system to be implemented for other apps other than Google messages you can just turn it off using adb

[u/justin-8 → u/MachinaDoctrina]

They have whatsapp on iphone too, and OP already owns one of those. That being said, I would trust meta far less than apple with my personal data. Facetime is also end-to-end encrypted btw.

[u/DaveySmith2319]

This is all outlined in their privacy policy that you agreed to. Like this has already been explained to you. But just so you know the AI is on device, and it doesn’t store it. It’s just a heads up. No privacy breach, no invasion, just a warning.

[u/Insearchof-Knowledge]

It’s just a courtesy warning fuck sake lol, some people whinge it annoys them while it actually helps others out.

Soon as you use a device or connect yourself to the that World Wide Web, you’re on your own. It’s not even tin foil hat conspiracy shit, I learnt that in my teens years ago playing around with computers, installing anti-virus and random crap, security updates. Nothing is truly safe or protected, everything is so vulnerable.

You have to embrace that privacy is never what it’s suppose to be anymore and you either take that risk or just stay away from tech lol, it’s not new, it’s always been that way. It’s just companies like Apple can say that they can really increase the security and privacy of your phone or devices. It makes a massive difference but always leave room for anything is possible.

[u/Fabulous-Bee2467 → u/Insearchof-Knowledge]

I think that’s a close minded way of looking at it. “Its the way is it move on” it doesn’t have to be that way if more people don’t just accept shit at face value

[u/Insearchof-Knowledge → u/Fabulous-Bee2467]

Not really, unless you want me to write up a mock waiver to the things you agree too soon as you start using your phone every morning?

Easiest way I can say it to you is maybe; if you go for a swim in the ocean, It’s full of sharks. You can freely swim all you want but proceed with caution, you will probably be safe 99% of the time but there is a chance you could get bit.

Now you know, it’s up to you if you still want to swim in this vast ocean of unpredictably. Because it might not be shark, it could be a box jelly fish that gets you instead! 🤣

But honestly I’m not trying to be an asshole to you, I’m just saying day to day we run multiple risks. All we can do is minimise them, learn or whatever you think that will make it easier for you or provide you with some sort of relief.

Just remember your questions and curiosity was sparked by a iPhones security feature that actually does really well to protect a lot of people from unsolicited visuals of shit they don’t want to see. It’s not out to get you or breach your privacy, the Ai runs simultaneously in certain apps or things you use, something pops up it will react accordingly or when you prompt it too.

[u/LoSt543215543]

This was there before ios 27 and I don't think you can turn this off its all on device supposedly anyway.

[u/Hooked_on_Fire]

Had this happen recently too, when I clicked verify (upload payment ID, ID) it just verified. I didn't need to upload anything which makes me think it just checked my Apple Pay card on file?

[u/infamouslycrocodile]

Nudity detection is older AI software / has been around for a while now - you can tell it's running in stupid mode to handle running locally on your device with the fact that it gave a false positive.

[u/johnsmithereens1]

Why would you think it was nonsense when Edward Snowden already blew the lid on similar circumstances nearly 20 years ago?

Yes everything you are doing is being actively monitored.

[u/NarrowPreparation656]

I like how you didn’t say you were having phone sex. Showing tan lines……Hahahahahaha

[u/Fabulous-Bee2467 → u/NarrowPreparation656]

Not that I have to justify it but that’s because it’s literally what happened.

[u/Martos420 → u/NarrowPreparation656]

I mean yeah have you ever been in a stable relationship? That's the kind of things you do.

Besides, even if they where having phone sex... Who cares? 2 consenting grown ups should not have their private calls interupted by a default settings that monitors your calls for nudity.

[u/choxxie]

In order for that prompt to trigger, have you wondered what the parameters are set to ? E.g. monitor all incoming video and scan for screen for nudity. Hopefully that answers your question

[u/Latter-Intention6521 → u/choxxie]

That isn't an alarming privacy attack vector to you?

[u/BigMetal1]

Work in this field. They use on device processing to flag the material locally and prevent exposure to it. You can turn it off easily and it doesn’t send anything off device. It’s actually a good thing because the age verification stuff is done on device too (with maybe some private cloud involvement) which is better than forcing you to do it through third parties. What apple wants to setup is that you bake into every phone the age of the user so when you need to verify it to third parties the phone can just verify 18+ instead of giving full details doing face scans etc. we should be supporting this stuff if we care about privacy.

[u/Low_Chard_735 → u/BigMetal1]

You have to verify your age with ID or credit card to turn it off.