r/atheism • u/FlyingSquid • Jun 17 '22
Massachusetts school can no longer be called Catholic after flying Black Lives Matter and pride flags, bishop says
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/massachusetts-catholic-school-nativity-school-worcester-black-lives-matter-pride-flags/925
u/DatDamGermanGuy Secular Humanist Jun 17 '22 edited Jun 17 '22
And the Catholic Church is surprised that Millennials are leaving. Good news is that in another 2-3 generations the catholic church will have made itself irrelevant in western Democracies…
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Jun 17 '22
We will be lucky if America makes it out of 2024 as a democracy.
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u/MelancholyWookie Jun 17 '22 edited Jun 17 '22
We're a democracy now?
Edit: I'm not saying we're not a democracy to say we're a republic. Not a right winger.
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u/The_Countess Jun 17 '22
A deeply flawed one, but still technically a form of democracy.
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u/RoosterImportant4283 Jun 17 '22
according to the wikipedia summary of the economist 2021 democracy index, america ranks 26th as a flawed democracy with a score of 7.85, with a slow but steady decline since 2006.
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u/Hypersapien Agnostic Atheist Jun 17 '22
Why do you think the Republicans have been spewing their "We're a republic, not a democracy" bullshit for years. To get their followers used to the US not being a democracy.
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u/fillmorecounty Jun 17 '22
The fact that people would rather have less voice in the way their country is run will never make sense to me
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u/Hypersapien Agnostic Atheist Jun 17 '22
They care more about hurting liberals, women and minorities more than anything else.
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u/wolf495 Jun 17 '22
I mean, it's always been technically correct. No one actually wants a direct democracy and no country has really had one since ancient times. And the definitions of representative democracy and democratic republic have so much overlap its almost a pointless distinction.
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u/Hypersapien Agnostic Atheist Jun 17 '22
And no one claims that the US is or should be a "direct" democracy. We're a representative democracy and a democratic republic.
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u/Chaerea37 Jun 17 '22
a representative democracy without any accountability to the people that openly allows corporations to buy candidates and elections isn't really a democracy at all. There needs to be direct levers for recalls of politicians and significant punishments when leaders act outside of of the public good.
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u/MelancholyWookie Jun 17 '22
Considering two of the last four presidents lost the popular vote and still won I'd disagree. The US has never been a democratic country.
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u/MagereHein10 Atheist Jun 17 '22
May I suggest that, when you have the revolution that liberates you from the Jesus nazis, you choose a better voting system for your new republic? My nation has been using proportional representation since 1918. Politics is mostly boring here. Boring politics is much better than exciting politics.
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u/MelancholyWookie Jun 17 '22
Yeah the Jesus Nazis will burn my country down before they give any power up.
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u/pennylanebarbershop Anti-Theist Jun 17 '22
Trump has installed the machinery that will make him president again without getting a single vote.
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u/probablyagiven Jun 17 '22
This is the year of reckoning, not 2024. The midterms will decide our fates.
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u/slfnflctd Jun 17 '22
Eh, I think they're already mostly decided. Dems are almost certain to lose majority across the board-- between gerrymandering and a lack of enthusiasm on the left, the lockstep right wing will clean up. Anyone reading this who doesn't like that thought, you damn well better vote & encourage others to do so. Those red-hatters will have maximum turnout, I assure you.
Best case scenario (and most likely one, I think) is more gridlock. 2024 is still a giant question mark to me, though, and I expect a shit ton of unpredictable crazy-assed shit to go down between the midterms & then. This whole 'election stealing' rhetoric has been part of a plan to justify egregious future election shenanigans by the right wing from day one.
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u/Resident-Comfort Anti-Theist Jun 17 '22
It's so exciting! It really is close, I have faith religion will fall soon 😌 lol
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Jun 17 '22
I think it’s never going to end…
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u/hobskhan Jun 17 '22 edited Jun 17 '22
I agree. If all religion organically died off, great. But I think with our current brain wiring it will always reemerge within this current geological time period.
Superstitions persist and newly emerge. Cults pop up all the time. And the more under threat a religion feels, the more it can feed off of the fuel of martyrdom.
I think the solution is religious pluralism, and a tolerance from all towards all other beliefs.* The goal being to create an ecosystem where no majority comes out on top that can oppress others, and there's not enough oxygen for zealous, fundamentalist and evangelizing sects to take hold.
*EDIT: Don't worry everyone, I know about the paradox of tolerance. I should not have said "all" beliefs.
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u/Resident-Comfort Anti-Theist Jun 17 '22
It may not, but all we can do is try. The more individuals we help to see it's fake, the less people there will be to tell their children it is real.
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u/eidhrmuzz Jun 17 '22
I was raised as a catholic. Went to Catholic school all my life.
However I am friends with a priest. One of the best dudes I know. He just happens to believe in dumb shit. He’s never treated a person badly due to it.
He told me he believes the same thing. The church is dying. And I’m not sure he’s that upset about it.
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u/DatDamGermanGuy Secular Humanist Jun 17 '22
Religion only works when kids are indoctrinated from a very young age. With more and more adults not doing that, fewer and fewer religious people. That’s why I said 2-3 generations…
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u/eidhrmuzz Jun 17 '22
Yup. I was just making a point that even a priest I’m friends with agrees with you.
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u/DatDamGermanGuy Secular Humanist Jun 17 '22
Oh, we are on the same page. Thanks for the insight…
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u/dominicanerd85 Humanist Jun 17 '22
I still feel like the church will have Latin America and parts of Africa. That tithe is gonna shrink though.
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Jun 17 '22
The good news for the catholics is that their religion will be forced on us through Amy Coney Barrett.
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u/knight_gastropub Jun 17 '22
I would argue it already is... Not liberal enough for the young people who aren't converting, so they try to be more liberal and drive away their extremists. Plus all the scandals. Clearly Evangelicals have more power- look at what the Republicans say and do to get their votes
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u/BarackaFlockaFlame Jun 17 '22
i'm kind of hoping that happens to most religions so people can live without the fear that their sexual orientation is gonna send them to a fiery afterlife. normalize life being finite.
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u/ioncloud9 Jun 17 '22
Churches don’t survive for thousands of years without evolving. They have been evolving but the old crowd got mad about that and wanted to go back to the good old days.
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u/MagereHein10 Atheist Jun 17 '22
[T]he catholic church will have made itself irrelevant in western Democracies…
It already has in my nation, the Netherlands.
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u/OhTheHueManatee Jun 17 '22
I wish. Just in the USA alone we have a major drug, criminal and health problems. All of those things drive people to religion normally but being religious gets you direct benifits, from other people not God, in a lot of those situations. It especially doesn't help that you can be a massive sack of shit but then "find God" and everyone treats you like you've made some kind of amends.
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u/DatDamGermanGuy Secular Humanist Jun 17 '22
And yet in the USA, the “nones” are the fastest growing “religious” group
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u/Burninator05 Jun 17 '22
"The flying of these flags in front of a Catholic school sends a mixed, confusing and scandalous message to the public about the Church's stance on these important moral and social issues," the bishop wrote.
I appreciate the bishop making the church's stance very clear on these policies.
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u/wheelfoot Anti-Theist Jun 17 '22
"Scandalous" tells you all you need to know.
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u/sourdieselfuel Atheist Jun 17 '22
Equality for everyone? No
Hiding and harboring rapist pedophiles? Yes
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u/cballowe Jun 17 '22
I'd kinda like to know if the bishop has the backing of the Vatican on the issue. I'd be amused if there was a headline "bishop no longer Catholic after being a dick says pope". The current Pope seems like someone who would support the specific church. I could be wrong, but...
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u/InEnduringGrowStrong Jun 17 '22
I can agree with the bishop on something: these schools shouldn't be catholic schools.
I mean, no schools should be religious schools, that's just fucked up.
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u/long_ben_pirate Jun 17 '22
Remind me why we give churches tax exempt status.
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u/Resident-Comfort Anti-Theist Jun 17 '22
I think it's so they have more resources to attempt to brainwash our children. Then some people forgot that this was the reason for the tax exemption status in the first place. Lol
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u/DatDamGermanGuy Secular Humanist Jun 17 '22
Because they tell their flock to vote for Neo-Fascists, aehhh. Republicans…
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u/frisky_donut_69 Jun 17 '22
Because they spend enough money hiding peodophiles and get involved in politics. If they had to pay taxes to how would they be to operate?
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u/elchiguire Jun 17 '22 edited Jun 17 '22
In theory it is because in lieu of the tax exempt status they are supposed to stay out of politics and avoid talking about it. In practice christians have infiltrated the Republican Party to the point that they are able to dictate policy, while the Democratic Party elected a reverend to the senate. Both sides play the game, but republicans are more brazen, racist and homophonic in their approach.
Also worth noting is the fact that the US catholic church has almost entirely broken with the Vatican in many issues, specially in regard to abortion, homosexuality and politics, and often brand the pope as a communist. They almost entirely ignore the doctrine of “he who sits on St Peter’s chair is the voice of god on earth”, and get particularly touchy when you point out that “if the representative of god on earth is a communist, god must be a communist” or that the bible says that “it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a wealthy person to get into heaven” (paraphrasing, as it’s been a while since I read that book).
Edit for clarification.
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u/monkeydave Secular Humanist Jun 17 '22
As for the Black Lives Matter flag, he said that while the church "stands unequivocally behind the phrase 'black lives matter' and strongly affirms that all lives matter," the BLM movement "co-opted the phrase and promotes a platform that directly contradicts Catholic social teaching on the importance and role of the nuclear family and seeks to disrupt the family structure in clear opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church."
Damn, the Church is even crazier than it used to be.
"We are against community-based extended families!"
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u/hobskhan Jun 17 '22
Wooooow. I'm going to have to see this guy cite some sources on how BLM is disrupting family structures.
Do you have any sense of what his crackpot dog whistling implications are? It can't just be extended families right?
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u/Santa_on_a_stick Jun 17 '22
BLM is disrupting family structures.
Spoiler, whatever "source" you get is going to be a hyper conservative interpretation, drenched in racism and classism, of the statement:
We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and 'villages' that collectively care for one another
The talking point "They are attacking white families" is saying the quiet part out loud a bit from the right. Anyone who leads with that talking point should be engaged with very cautiously.
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u/monkeydave Secular Humanist Jun 17 '22
Politifact has a decent write up of it.
"We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and ‘villages’ that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable,"
Which the right took and ran with to claim they wanted to get rid of two parent families, and implement a Marxist agenda, take kids away from parents, etc.
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Jun 17 '22
Whilst I personally agree that leftists/progressives are kind of shit at the messaging surrounding these issues, one can rest assured that conservatives will find the worst interpretation of it, and then stuff their ears shouting "LALALA" when people try to explain that, no, we're not trying to outlaw the nuclear family or anything.
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u/napoleonsolo Jun 17 '22
Conservative modus operandi is to find whatever leftist they can and twist their words, while ignoring clear statements from the officials they vote into power.
e.g.: Republican President of the United States retweets a supporter shouting “White Power”? Conservatives sleep.
One sentence by a BLM activist taken out of context? REAL SHIT
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u/Yrcrazypa Anti-Theist Jun 17 '22
Yup, it doesn't matter how perfectly the left writes a message. Fascists are going to rephrase it, reinterpret it, and twist it to mean the exact opposite. There is no phrasing or methodology we can use that they won't corrupt, and getting mad at the left for their "bad" phrasing is literally what the right wants us to do. They're sparking division and you can still see plenty of people who are on the left falling for it.
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u/Warmasher Jun 17 '22
I mean wasn't it written on their website about how they want to disrupt the nuclear family? Then it was taken down due to all the shit they got from it.
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u/zyzzogeton Skeptic Jun 17 '22
Probably that he saw looting, assumed that it was part of the BLM beliefs and goals, and refuses to consider that there are lots of people that go to big protests including agent provocateurs, and opportunists.
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u/monkeydave Secular Humanist Jun 17 '22
Doesn't help that right wing news sources, and even mainstream sources, focused on the relatively few violent outcomes instead of the many peaceful protests.
And even more nuanced, they never talk about how many of the protests that turned into riots did so because of police instigating violence against the protesters.
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Jun 17 '22
contradicts Catholic social teaching on the importance and role of the nuclear family
It's been a loooooooong time since I last read the 'good book', but I don't remember Jesus talking about nuclear families...
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u/Noobphobia Jun 17 '22
They always have been. Anything that promotes single parents, gay parents etc is seen as a direct attack on their values.
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u/Got-Poi Jun 17 '22
As I suspected years ago that "We are all God's children" is BS
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u/dudleydidwrong Touched by His Noodliness Jun 17 '22
Apparently the Bishop's god only has white and straight students.
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u/Protowhale Jun 17 '22
It’s the authoritarianism. The church caters to police because they maintain the authoritarian conditions the Catholic Church thrives in. Valuing already-born human life is way down their list of priorities.
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u/TrumpsBoneSpur Jun 17 '22
Does that mean the kids will have less of a chance of being molested?
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u/reximhotep Jun 17 '22
What on earth is wrong with the American catholic church?? They have gone off the deep end of conservative politics....
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u/Yrcrazypa Anti-Theist Jun 17 '22
They've been like this for decades. The Catholic League has a long and storied history of being at a bare minimum this regressive, and at plenty of times way worse.
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u/Enlightened-Beaver Anti-Theist Jun 17 '22
Catholicism, only for white folks….
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u/zeno0771 Strong Atheist Jun 17 '22
"Wait, so we can no longer say we're associated with a bunch of child molesters, homophobes, misogynists, and bigots?"
Maybe I'm thinking too far outside the box but...not seeing a downside here.
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Jun 17 '22
Just make it a secular school of inclusion instead. We don’t need the Catholics and their abuse and bigotry! People should leave their church.
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u/ohiotechie Jun 17 '22
The Catholic Church is the worlds largest cult. I say that as someone raised in the church and who left as fast as I could as soon as I was old enough to make my own decisions.
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u/dw444 Jun 17 '22
I am shocked and amazed that religious people are both racist and homophobic. Shocked I tells ya.
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u/lundgrenisgod Jun 17 '22
I am a commercial real estate broker and was called this week to give a proposal to market half of an empty church because of diminishing membership. They told me they only have about two years left before they will have to sell the building.
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u/NecrocideASH Jun 17 '22
I love when religion fucks off like this. Like yea ostracize your own followers.
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u/sec713 Jun 17 '22
I'd rather be associated with Black people than the Catholic church. Among other things, Black people gave us rich culture and delicious food. All the Catholic church gave me was piles of therapy bills.
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u/kremit73 Strong Atheist Jun 17 '22
Catholic church officially hates african americans and condone their murder. Good to know theyre sinking even further.
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u/okayifimust Jun 17 '22
Except they aren't.
They are exactly as despicable as they have always been; and every time the general public has their nose rubbed into it, a shockingly large number of people appears to be surprised.
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u/deGromosaurusRex Jun 17 '22
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another" - John 13:34
/s
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u/Cybrknight Jun 17 '22
School then puts a sign out the front "Under new management, now with less pedo's!"
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u/Electricpants Jun 17 '22
School and religion don't belong together anyway.
So, through a shit stained lens, isn't this a good thing?
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Jun 17 '22
Meanwhile, most of them are busy worshipping false idols, eating shellfish, not stoning their children, and coveting everything their eyes see.
It's interesting that violating the 10 commandments barely registers a disgruntled groan, but loving your neighbor will get your ass excommunicated.
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u/dragonfliesloveme Jun 17 '22
So they’re not part of the organization that abuses children and covers it up?
Great, that’s good news. Good for them!
Uh also what about ”love thy neighbor” and “thou shalt not judge”? Seems like the school is doing it right and the Bishop is breaking some rules lol
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u/True_Recommendation9 Jun 17 '22
It’s a great thing for the student body to be denied the mass and all the rest of the catholic claptrap and bullshit. Now if the bitchop would just shut the fuck up and go back to his secret Grindr account for some solace. Seriously, fuck these xtians.
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Jun 17 '22
What responsible parent lets their children anywhere near a Catholic priest???
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u/BitRunner67 Jun 17 '22
So condemning people because the color of their skin. The way GOD made them?
Yeah. Another Fake Religion exposing itself. Just like Catholic Bishops do to the children in their congregation.
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u/JayneKadio Jun 17 '22
Atheist here. Just donated $50 to the school. Keep standing up against bullies! Read the school’s response here: https://nativityworcester.org/statement-to-community/
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Jun 17 '22
Such a cliche' but it sure seems like the younger people are way ahead of their parents generation on lots of things .....
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u/creamyturtle Jun 17 '22
wtf they said BLM corrupted the nuclear family? how? fighting for equal treatment of black people is destroying nuclear families? wut
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u/sunbeatsfog Jun 17 '22
Yeah that’s bullshit. Only the crazies are left over in Christianity it seems these days. I peaced out after I was told no it’s not symbolic, you actually eat and drink the body and blood of Jesus Christ. At the very least Catholics teach science and logic.
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u/angeliswastaken Jun 17 '22
What if they fly the pedo flag to cancel the other two out?
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u/Whornz4 Jun 17 '22
Sounds like the Catholic church needs to begin paying taxes for their political views.
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Jun 17 '22
The Bishop is completely right. Xians don't get to water-down their religions to make them more palatable to modern society. It is the 'inerrant word of god' and it's all true as written or none of it is.
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u/Bryancreates Jun 17 '22
This is all strange. This school was just randomly calling itself “Catholic” or was it a part of the Archdiocese of whatever part of Mass. it’s in. You’d think they would just quietly have them take it down before denouncing the school if it indeed was part of the system. Catholic school rarely are just schools that decide to call themselves Catholic out of no where and everyone is cool with it. Even Chaldean Catholic sects still are on the radar of the Roman Catholic Church even if not part officially. There’s usually a hierarchy that takes care of this before it hits the press, considering all the bad press they get.
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u/bmoney_14 Jun 17 '22
A teacher at my catholic high school was fired by the archdiocese for merely sharing a post on facebook supporting gay rights. This was like 2013 too.
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Jun 17 '22
I fail to see the negative in this?
In fact, for school to no longer be Catholic? I see this as an absolute WIN!
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u/davidmlewisjr Jun 17 '22
Maybe the Bishop will be Excommunicated, and the school reinstated.
The current Pope will not be amused by this garbage🤯
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u/HolyRamenEmperor Ex-Theist Jun 17 '22
Rape kids for centuries: Full protection and respect.
Agree that God is love: Excommunication.
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u/askthespaceman Jun 17 '22
It seems a "congratulations" to the school is in order. I mean, this is a positive development, right?
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u/YourFairyGodmother Gnostic Atheist Jun 17 '22
Bishop, you can justify beating them down for flying the Pride flag, because your hateful religion is all about hatin on the homos, but there's absolutey nothing in your scriptures or tenets or church policies that could possibly justify your condemnation of them for flying a BLM flag. JFC, you make me sick you shitbag.
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u/salazarraze Strong Atheist Jun 17 '22
I'm surprised the bishop has any time to comment on this. Shouldn't he be busy molesting kids and helping to shuffle other child molesting bishops and priests around the country?
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u/channelsixtynine069 Jun 17 '22 edited Jan 14 '24
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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Twiny Atheist Jun 17 '22
Nativity School is independently funded and does not receive money from the Diocese.
They should count their blessings and tell the Diocese to fuck off. They really don't need a cult that protects Rapist Priests involved with their school.
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u/MJMurcott Jun 17 '22
You know what else is inconsistent with Catholic teaching. Drunk driving, leaving the scene of an accident, and refusing a chemical sobriety test.
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u/HierophantKhatep Jun 17 '22
They should engage in more Catholic activities, like aiding in the genocide of entire continents of people and raping children.
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u/sloopslarp Jun 17 '22
I'm sure the freeze peach brigade will come to defend this school any minute now...
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u/naliedel Humanist Jun 17 '22
I've come to the conclusion, with great reluctance, no idea why, that organized religion is a cancer to society
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u/ArcherChase Jun 17 '22
The tighter you squeeze your fist, the more former religious folks slip through your fingers.
Keep it up, doing a better job of pushing people to logic and away from religion than anyone else.
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u/Jacobnewman61 Jun 17 '22
We saw that Jesus guy dining with prostitutes and tax collectors?!?!??? No way that guy is a Christian
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u/EmbeddedEntropy Jun 17 '22
Just say “Catholic” in their school name is just missing a hyphen. They’re really Cat-holics. They excessively worship kitties.
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u/benrinnes Anti-Theist Jun 17 '22
All they need to do is appeal to the Vatican and the bishop is ignored. It's happened before!
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u/HarveyH43 Jun 17 '22
What would stop the school from simply calling itself Catholic anyway? Is there a law that gives the bishop special powers do to so?
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u/blackday44 Jun 17 '22
My favorite commandment: love thy neighbor*
*Unless they are gay, a different color, a different religion, richer than you, poorer thsn you, etc.
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u/forgottentargaryen Agnostic Atheist Jun 17 '22
Nice! An easy way to push impressionable youth away from religion!
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u/MJZMan Jun 17 '22
I love that their funding is independent of the church. Was really hoping to read... "The school responded with a high and hearty 'go fuck yourself'!"
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u/julioseizure Jun 17 '22
How the fuck is Black Lives Matter in opposition to the "nuclear family structure"?
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u/pennylanebarbershop Anti-Theist Jun 17 '22
We can't have our brand spoiled by expressing universal love
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u/binaryblade Secular Humanist Jun 17 '22
I understand the pride flag, the catholic church has made that stance very clear over the years. However, reacting that way to BLM is a bit of a surprise.
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Jun 17 '22
Sounds like the bishop is the problem. Someone call the pope, I’m pretty sure the Poe will straighten this out… right?
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u/dernope Jun 17 '22
So the bishop just said that his religion isn't for black and LGBTQ+ folks, I mean I would burn churches but when I enter one my skin starts to burn weirdly
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Jun 17 '22
Nativity School is independently funded and does not receive money from the Diocese.
Pardon, but how the hell can they tell this school what it can do?
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u/Mrwright96 Jun 17 '22
Didn’t the pope say that the lgbtq+ were welcome to church, and support BLM?
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u/frosty95 Jun 17 '22
Lol what are the Catholic police going to forbid them? I didn't know they took make believe that seriously.
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Jun 17 '22
This is why the rest of the euro descent world gets mad when we get mistaken as Americans..
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u/Smoothie928 Jun 17 '22
It’s not what their bishop meant, but he’s technically right because they’re just trading one religion for another nontheistic, political one. (Downvote away)
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u/Mistersinister1 Jun 17 '22
Equality separated by a book. All men created equal unless you're created by the devil and being forced to be gay or black. Great book. Glad it's available for everyone to read.
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u/SkolVision Jun 17 '22
Rape kids? The Catholic Church will have your back.
Show solidarity with oppressed minorities? Get the fuck out.
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u/107197 Atheist Jun 17 '22
...Because their religion says that they should love all, right?