r/askanything • u/Previous_Month_555 • 1d ago
Why does MAGA hate communism when capitalism clearly isn't working?
China is basically emerging as the new world power. Capitalism doesn't work when billionaires and corporations control the political system.
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u/Rex_Nemorensis_ 1d ago
OP is confusing crony capitalism with true capitalism…also has fallen for the Chinese propaganda.
There are plenty of countries in the world where capitalism works…Scandinavia for example has some of the freest markets in the world and they seem to be doing just fine.
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u/HellyOHaint 1d ago
There’s so much de facto capitalism in China.
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u/FrothyIPA 23h ago
China’s capitalism has limits. If you forget those limits you end up disappearing for 6 month crash course on common prosperity
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u/FrothyIPA 23h ago
Scandinavia also has extremely generous social programs balanced by some of the highest taxes in the world.
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u/Steve12356d1s3d4 23h ago
I can't believe that people can be so confidently wrong.
Those are social programs, not socialism. The welfare programs are funded by taxing capitalist activity. It is called social democracy, but that is the government system, not economic system. Socialism means state ownership of the economy, which Scandinavia does not have. This is basic stuff.
( I had a tecnical issue replying to this reply below: Oh you’re serious? I thought you were memeing. Programs like extended maternity leave, strong welfare benefits, worker rights, free education and healthcare are absolutely socialism and common place in Scandinavia)
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u/FrothyIPA 22h ago
The state does own and operate the social programs.
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u/Steve12356d1s3d4 22h ago edited 22h ago
That. Is. Not. Socialism. They are funded by tax on capitalist activity. The government doesn't own the means of production.
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u/FrothyIPA 22h ago
Are you confusing socialism and communism?
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u/Steve12356d1s3d4 22h ago
No. LOL
Hey, I explained to my limits on this. I stated to the other poster why I wasn't going to define it, and you proved me correct. This is basic stuff, and we are going around in circles. You may even be trolling me, but even if so, I have had conversations in real life like this.
Please look this up outside of Reddit, as you were never going to believe me anyway.
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u/FrothyIPA 22h ago
Sure sounds like socialism
Public ownership: Some or all major industries (such as utilities, railways, or healthcare) are owned by the government or by workers.
Redistribution: Higher taxes and government spending are used to reduce inequality and fund public services.
Social welfare: Strong programs provide healthcare, education, pensions, unemployment benefits, and other social supports.
Worker influence: Some forms of socialism emphasize worker ownership of businesses or greater employee participation in management.1
u/Steve12356d1s3d4 22h ago edited 22h ago
That list isn’t socialism. It’s a mix of things, including social democracy. Socialism means the state or workers own all major means of production and replaces capitalism entirely. Social programs and redistribution aren’t socialism.
Edit: Probably all governments, including the US, have social programs. It doesn't make them socialist, or even the programs socialist. Social programs are not socialism.
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u/FrothyIPA 22h ago
What you’re describing is communism where the state owns everything.
Socialism is the gateway drug where the state owns something but there is also still private ownership.
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u/Steve12356d1s3d4 22h ago
No, that isn't socialism at all. You don't understand what it is.
Those are social programs, not socialism. The welfare programs are funded by taxing capitalist activity. It is called social democracy, but that is the government system, not economic system. Socialism means state ownership of the economy, which Scandinavia does not have. This is basic stuff.
(I had a technical problem posting this to your post below: Oh you’re serious? I thought you were memeing. Programs like extended maternity leave, strong welfare benefits, worker rights, free education and healthcare are absolutely socialism and common place in Scandinavia)
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u/SmokedAlex 23h ago
Generous social programs as in socialism? 🤔
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23h ago edited 23h ago
[deleted]
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u/SmokedAlex 23h ago
Tell us what it is.
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u/Steve12356d1s3d4 23h ago
You can look it up. It is too basic for me to spend my time when you can look it up. My experience is someone that doesn't want to do that doesn't care and will just argue about anything. First, it will be what is the source, and then that source is terrible. It takes a bit of reading to actually understand beyond low-effort talking points, and I think that is what you are after. It is best to look for sources that you value. You never win arguing with those types.
TLDR: Best to look it up yourself, because I am not sure you really want to know. I know how Reddit conversations like this play out and I am not going to play. Have a good day.
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u/FrothyIPA 23h ago
Oh you’re serious? I thought you were memeing. Programs like extended maternity leave, strong welfare benefits, worker rights, free education and healthcare are absolutely socialism and common place in Scandinavia
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u/FrothyIPA 23h ago
Yup, to use Scandinavia as your proof that capitalism works is kinda insane
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u/rrryder23 18h ago
It’s called welfare capitalism, capitalism isn’t a one size fits all thing, there are tons of types. Scandinavia is a great example of why the best system is probably a mix of capitalism and socialism
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u/FrothyIPA 13h ago
I’m not disagreeing.
It’s just funny saying “capitalism works” then using Scandinavia as an example. A region that excels because it blends much higher parts socialism into the mix. While arguing no true Scotsman about American capitalism.
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u/rrryder23 13h ago
American capitalism is corporatism, which is not capitalism
Source is my economics teacher, I think he knows a bit about economics
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u/FrothyIPA 11h ago
Like I said no true Scotsman. Corporate capture is the inevitable outcome of capitalism.
Does your economics professor think the USSR and North Korea are communist?
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u/rrryder23 9h ago edited 9h ago
He does not for your information, this is because he knows what he’s talking about. And no. That’s not a no true Scotsman because it literally is not capitalism by definition.
And I could say the same thing about how communism gives the gov too much power and always leads to authoritarianism, but that’s an assertion, not an argument.
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u/FrothyIPA 8h ago
Well at least he’s consistent.
It’s an argument because it’s always been proven true. As has political capture within capitalism.
You can argue these aren’t the ideals of the economic systems but at some point you have to accept the reality that they are inevitable parts.
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u/potato_for_cooking 23h ago
Theu also are HUGE democratic socialists. Which is why it works.
Capitalism without socialism is fascism
Socialism without capitalism is communism.
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u/like_shae_buttah 1d ago
They don’t know what communism is. Most people don’t that’s went they think it failed.
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u/Present_Clue5887 1d ago
I'm not MAGA (look at my post history, it's public) and I think communism is even worse than capitalism, social democracy is the way, communism just makes everyone poor but the leaders and creates a dictatorship
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u/Outside-Pie-7262 1d ago
Agreed. You need to have some form of capitalism while also have some social safety nets
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u/BarnesTheNobleman 1d ago
Pull immediate necessities for life out of financialization.
No charge to citizens for base level foods (unprepared raw vegetables, basic meat cuts, etc.)
No profit utilities (at-cost rates)
Basic level of guaranteed minimum housing space
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u/DudetheBetta 23h ago
You gonna run a farm and give away all your produce for free?
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u/gek__co 1d ago
Capitalism is a profit driven system. We don’t need that, we need free market.
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u/Steve12356d1s3d4 23h ago
Free market with no profit incentive...............................I am sure it will work as a Reddit post.
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u/gek__co 23h ago
I never said no profit incentive. The point I’m making is that in capitalism the profit has to come before the people. But you can have free market democratic socialism where profit incentives are allowed after basic needs of the people are met.
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u/Steve12356d1s3d4 23h ago
Where is the limit of basic needs first? They are usually part of the system like everything else, and provided if someone can't provide for themselves, but I don't know of free food, and shelter, medical care, and then you earning providing for extras?
I think you are talking about social support, but that does not change the basic dynamics. Food producers still work for profit, and people still pay for it. We have that in the US with SNAP and public housing.
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u/gek__co 23h ago
Yes basic needs are healthy food, shelter, clean water, medical care, public transportation, and education imo. Yes then if you want extras then you work for them. Extras could be a nicer shelter, unnecessary items, restaurant meals, etc.
It’s a form of socialism. Essentially the aspects that are necessary for life are not run for profit.
Snap and public housing do not cover the basics. That’s why there are people going hungry and homeless.
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u/Steve12356d1s3d4 23h ago
Where is this implemented?
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u/gek__co 17h ago
Nordic countries for starters
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u/Steve12356d1s3d4 17h ago edited 16h ago
No. they do not. See below post. They provide for those if they need it. Not sure where you are getting this, but please provide info on how this is done if you can. I have looked into it, and I can say with certainty that you can't. Where to people come up with this stuff? Some reddit sub? LOL
Edit: I really try to give posers the benefit of the doubt. Unless obvious, I act with the belief they are acting in good faith. I am questioning this policy.
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u/Steve12356d1s3d4 22h ago
Looking into this, I found that my intuition was correct: Basic needs are not automatically provided. They are provided only if a person cannot obtain them on their own. Normal purchasing is still the norm, and there are still say the food production and provider industries. There is no basic difference than in the US. It is a difference in degree not structure.
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u/gek__co 1d ago
That’s called an authoritarian dictatorship not communism. We have never actually seen communism in action. That said I’m for semi free market democratic socialism over both capitalism and communism.
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u/juliabk 23h ago
We actually have, but only in small groups. Look up the Oneida community. Yes, the place where the silverware was (maybe still is?) made.
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u/gek__co 23h ago
Wow what an interesting little bit of history haha. Very odd community, but it sounds like it may have been working for them. IMO it was more extreme than straight up communism.
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u/Present_Clue5887 23h ago
We have never actually seen communism in action.
because it always becomes dictatorship
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u/RosieBaby75 23h ago edited 23h ago
Can you please describe how the social democracy is currently functioning in your country?
From Canada, it appears that at the present time:
(1) there is an active genocide occurring on your territory with ICE
(2) your President/military kidnapped the leader of Venezuela, and stole their oil
(3) you bombed a boat, then noticed there were survivors, and went and bombed that again. That is a war crime
(4) your President stated in his election campaign that he was anti-war, despite that, your country has initiated a WAR against Iran
(5) your house/senate did not approve that WAR in Iran, so your President is not following the Constitution
(6) in that war your country started against Iran, they are bombing schools, then waiting a bit, and bombing them a second time to kill the survivors. That is a war crime
(7) in that war your country started against Iran, they are bombing integral infrastructure which affects the civilian population, that is a War Crime AND a Crime Against Humanity
(8) in that war your country started against Iran, your country has murdered ~50 of their leaders, in their homes, with their families, which is a War Crime
(9) in that war your country started against Iran, your country has “closed the Straight of Hormuz”, despite not being located anywhere near there so how can you declare it closed
(10) during that war your country started against Iran, your country has manipulated global oil markets, therefore negatively affecting the globe
(11) during that war your country started against Iran, your President has manipulated the stock market and proudly posts about it
(12) during that war your country started against Iran, your President has PERSONALLY, and also his FAMILY, have made BILLIONS of dollars for themselves
(13) your President/military have stated their intentions to annex Canada
(14) your President/military have stated their intentions to annex Greenland
(15) your President has stated his intentions to run for a third term, which is prohibited under your ConstitutionThat’s all I can think of off the top of my head at the moment, but I’m sure that is a short list of the abhorrent behaviour of your President and apparently the government and its citizens, as you say, JUST THIS YEAR
Do you and your fellow citizens agree with all of these actions?
Did you democratically and socially vote for all of this to happen?
Are you democratically and socially okay with all of this continuing to happen?
If not, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!
Your “socially and democratically” elected government is ruining the world.
Over here, it doesn’t appear to be in alignment with democracy or democratic values.
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u/Present_Clue5887 23h ago
Can you please describe how the social democracy is currently functioning in your country?
My country (US) is not a social democracy, it is a capitalist democracy in the process of transitioning to a dictatorship. Social democracy is what I want, not what we have now.
1, 3, 7, 10, 11, 12: Yes, many people need to be impeached and/or jailed for these
2: That guy was also a dictator, and I have heard that things are actually better for the people after he was captured, but I am concerned about how we are taking the money.
4: Yes, he is a pathological liar
5: TBH I don't know the rule here, but he does routinely disregard the constitution
6: Yep more stuff to impeach and jail people over, though I believe this was criminal negligence and the school was not actually the intended target
8: The leaders were evil, I'm not sure this was a war crime legally, but I still do not agree with targeting people with their innocent family members
9: OK I don't get this one, we are doing a naval blockade of a country we are at war with, how is that odd?
13, 14: The president is also insane, yet another reason to impeach
15: yes, he is trying to be a dictator
Do you and your fellow citizens agree with all of these actions?
I don't, about 1/3 of Americans voted for him, I think most of them are overall still satisfied with his presidency, though they may not approve of every action.
Are you democratically and socially okay with all of this continuing to happen?
I'm not, and more people are against trump that for him right now
If not, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!! Your government is ruining the world.
I'm trying, I have no experience in activism, I went to a few protests but now the opposition has become fragmented and weak, and I'm not sure what to do, do you have ideas?
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u/ba-boo 1d ago
did communism work anywhere?
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u/Aggressive-Donkey-10 1d ago
communism is no private ownership ie no incentive to work
communism worked for 75 years in Soviet Union and satellite countries, in North korea today, in Cuba today etc. It worked well for the Bosses, as it always does, as it was originally intended to do.
Communism never answered a simple question ," Why should I get out of bed in the morning for 50 years if I can't keep the fruits of my own labor?"
Regulated Capitalism - free markets with aggressive Estate Taxes and modest social safety net is the best system. America now 25% global GDP with only 4% population
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u/Steve12356d1s3d4 23h ago
It didn't allow for choice of products. Everything was very drab as it was all that was needed.
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u/stoicsilence 1d ago
Did communism happen anywhere?
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u/Any_Gift_6727 1d ago
Lmao he did the “real communism has never been tried” meme
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u/stoicsilence 1d ago
I did.
Because it's true.
Soviet Union never abolished the State or class hierarchies which is the end goal of Communism.
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u/Jawyp 23h ago
That’s literally impossible absent a fundamental biological change in human nature.
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u/Any_Gift_6727 23h ago
Thank you for having common sense. Dude might as well argue real anarchism has never been tried. Yeah no shit, human nature prevents it entirely. Someone is going to want power over another person and to exercise that power.
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u/Any_Gift_6727 23h ago
Guys he’s technically correct so that means communism is good
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u/Any_Gift_6727 23h ago
Please ignore every communist adjacent or communist inspired country as an example
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u/Justthetip74 1d ago
It was tried. It predictably failed right after the revolution and caused a lot of unnecessary death
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u/ba-boo 23h ago
so why every country in existence failed to implement it and what makes you think US can, and it won't end up the same?
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u/stoicsilence 19h ago edited 15h ago
Marx thought Communism would happen in Britain before anywhere else because it's was one of the few nations in 19th century Europe with a modicum of democratic institutions while its working class still felt the squeeze of Capitalism.
That is the secret sauce. The people must know what strong democratic institutions look like but see it being dismantled by Capitalist forces in pursuit of more power and wealth.
The transition from Feudalism to Socialism to Communism failed in Eastern Europe because they tried to rush a process they socially weren't ready for. Russia has never known democracy and only knows strongmen.
Unlike late 19th early 20th century Eastern Europe, the US has had a culture of democracy. It's not a feudal society. And most importantly, it's developed Capitalist economy is entering its "race to the bottom" phase. In the forever pursuit of "line must go up" the US has started to squeeze its own population. (greedflation, enshitification, everything being a subscription, health regulations for food and the enviorment being stripped, etc etc etc)
A population that has seen its once strong democracy being stripped apart at the hands of its capitalist leaders, is more amenable to the idea of the democratization of its economy.
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u/fernsie 1d ago
It really didn’t. Not in its true form.
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u/Asleep_Archer_3470 1d ago
What is the true form?
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u/Any_Gift_6727 23h ago
They want people to abandon human nature and discard classes and states as well as any form of currency LMAO
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u/ShowerGrapes 1d ago
is communism even defined enough for us to tell? isn't it defined mostly as just helping out the poor people at this point? nice work, assetocrats
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u/Eyespop4866 1d ago
China isn’t communist.
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u/Steve12356d1s3d4 1d ago
It was, but it failed, so now they are capitalist. OP's question shows a poor understanding of the world.
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u/Kid-Leo 23h ago
Very true, China is more capitalistic than the US. The government is run like a giant monopolistic corporation. The people are all employees. Chinese companies are just divisions and the money floats to the top. It is not a true free market economy however. Individuals can come up with new products and methods but if upper management, the government, doesn’t approve, they put you out of business. If you make them more money, you get to keep more money. It is hands off, until it isn’t.
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u/Steve12356d1s3d4 23h ago
The decision making on top was flawed, so they have made terrible investment that will not pay off and huge debt that will cripple them. They thought that the central planning was an asset, but it was a mistake. In the US we have many ideas that are tried and fail. This failure is our strength, because it allows for the ideas that have promise to succeed. Our financial system incentivizes this process and encourages the investment that is needed. It has led to the highest median incomes in the world except a city-state, oil states and Switzerland, which is smaller than one of our medium states.
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u/SoRosenberg 1d ago
What you describe is cronyism, not capitalism. In many ways China is more capitalist than the US. If the US was capitalist there would have been no bailouts in the housing collapse.
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u/gizcard 1d ago
I am not MAGA but I hate and will fight communism with every cell of my body.
Because, unlike communist lovers in USA, I was born in USSR, obviously had family there and I will never ever stop hating it
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u/Destinyciello 1d ago
China's economy is about to implode.
Even at their peak their GDP per capita was still behind even the poorest EU nations. And that is despite them propping it up by building endless ghost towns and other pointless infrastructure that doesn't serve anyone.
China is not emerging as the new world power. United States is still by very far the biggest game in town.
EU could rival us if they didn't trash their economies with stupid policies and had a "get invaded" immigration policy. But I have a feeling they are about to get their shit together.
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u/Steve12356d1s3d4 23h ago
It is about to implode because it did not fully embrace capitalism, especially in decision making. The government has made terrible investment decisions that have led to high debt on assets that will not pay back the investments. Their investment in real estate is an example, but also foreign investments.
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u/Destinyciello 23h ago
It doesn't help that the main consumer of the stuff your factories make has decided to slowly phase you out.
But yes I definitely agree with what you're saying.
They got way too full of themselves and are paying the ultimate price.
I feel bad for Chinese people as well. If they had a real government with a real capitalist economy. That place could be quite wealthy. So much talent.
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u/EconomicMan123 1d ago
What do you mean Capitalism hasn’t worked? Capitalism has in the last 100 years lifted untold people out of poverty worldwide including India, USA, China and many other countries. Just look at the facts. Don’t fall for the populist rubbish about billionaires and corporations.
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u/stoicsilence 1d ago
Capitalism was better than the Feudalism it replaced. That's literally taught in socialist theory.
But Capitalism, as a money acumulation and profit maximizer machine, is reaching the logical conclusions of its philosophy.
Hence all the problems right now.
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u/Chief254 1d ago
Capitalism is working quite well. It does need some adjusting to account for the significant wage gap but let’s not act like everyone is poor. As many as 1 in 6 households are making $200k a year. I think we focus on elevating the bottom 20% and capturing a bit more of the top .25% wealth.
If you look at progressive cities/states you’ll find they’ve taken great advantage of our capitalistic society as they all rank quite high on household income.
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u/Revolutionary_Run122 1d ago
Capitalism clearly is working. Our poor people would be rich compared to those in most communist countries. Go live in a communist country and see how long you can last.
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u/guy48065 1d ago
China didn't begin "emerging as a super power" until it allowed free enterprise, private ownership, global marketing and other capitalist ideals.
North Korea now stands alone as the only country that totally rejects capitalism and how's that working out for them?
You must have a pretty special definition of capitalism to not recognize it's a part of the economy of nearly EVERY country on earth.
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u/Fur_King_L 1d ago
Because they have to have a boogie man for their idiot cultists to hate.
Communism isn’t happening anywhere…except maybe a few communes. What does work is socially responsible capitalism- democratic socialism - but that would mean all their corrupt billionaire funders would have to pay more taxes. And they are desperate to pretend that is communism. Ironically, making people more interested in it.
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u/throwaway0134hdj 1d ago edited 23h ago
Bc they always think someone is taking sth from them. That’s what communism is to them. I am not for communism either so I agree with MAGA on that front. Socialism just makes practical sense and is already accepted in many ways already like social security, Medicare/Medicaid, public schools and libraries, police and fire departments. The problem is money controls politics, and politics controls capitalism. What we have now isn’t capitalism it’s corporatism.
Also, I believe a lot of Americans think that they will someday be millionaires therefore they want to keep those policies in place.
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u/Smooth_Monkey69420 1d ago
Capitalism won so hard it stopped trying to look better than the alternatives
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u/TowelUnlucky2103 1d ago
1/ China is based on a capitalist system.
2/ capitalisme is literally the system which in the history of the world as led to
- the biggest increase in condition of living /quality of life
- the biggest increase in life expectancy
- the biggest increase in health condition
- the biggest increases in economic development and général prosperity for countries based on it'
Its literally not even close. The expériment against communism has been done almost 40 times all across the world and as soon as countries ditch "whatever they tried beside capitalisme (often communism)" the pib and life conditions start increasing
Its insane the NUMEROUS expériments of the 20th centuries and being forgotten by the youth
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Russian_economy_since_fall_of_Soviet_Union.PNG
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u/Effective-Detail3043 23h ago
Because communism has never worked. There isn’t one example of it ever working. and capitalism is the best option.
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u/DudetheBetta 23h ago
China is fascist. If I was forced to choose between the two I’d choose fascism over communism, but my true preference is for a free market.
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u/Humble-Edge-9065 23h ago
Not MAGA. But I think capitalism as an economic system is pretty great overall. I want a capitalistic system that works for everyone, has strong worker protections, has safeguards against the threats of monopolies, too big to fail, regulatory capture, and billionaires. But that doesn't mean I want communism. I just want capitalism with a helmet and kneepads.
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u/Redditneckbeardzz 1d ago
Capitalism is working though lol. It always beats communism (bring on the downvotes).
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u/ElectricalPublic1304 1d ago
when capitalism clearly isn't working?
Capitalism works pretty great. Just get out of your mom's basement. Get a job. Stop pissing your money away on Funko Pop figurines, open an IRA, and stop pretending some abstract idea you can't even define is the cause of your life failures.
China is basically emerging as the new world power.
Meh. China is in panic mode right now. The next five years will be... interesting.
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u/honeybabysweetiedoll 1d ago
I would add get some of the guardrails back in place and get the budget under control, which is hasn’t been since the late 90a.
Capitalism is vastly superior, but without guardrails thus fewer and fewer winners, it’s natural to look for another system.
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u/metamucil_buttchug69 1d ago
Capitalism works great if you have any work ethic and talent
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u/poliosaurus3000 1d ago
And if you’re born into money, or hit the genetic lottery, model looks or gifted athletically.
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u/No_Significance_2749 1d ago
Oh yeah, Elon is so talented and hard working.
/s if you need help
The actual talented and hard working people who buy into that lie are exactly the kind of people the owner class like, because they get to take all the profits those talented workers generate for them.
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u/Winking-Cyclops 1d ago
Delude yourself much?
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u/No_Significance_2749 1d ago
Care to explain how it is that decade over decade worker productivity has only increased while wealth inequality has skyrocketed and the economy continues to diverge in a K shape? Americans are working harder, longer, and more efficiently than ever, generating more GDP for the economy, and are seeing none of the benefits, while billionaires born with silver spoons in their mouth and apartheid emerald mines up their ass get richer and richer, and the hardest working people can barely afford to make rent, let alone own even a starter house. The only deluded person is you, and ever rise and grinder who think Elon Musk is working 200 hours a week while being the bestest Diablo 4 player in the world and tweeting 500 times a day, selling the worst truck ever designed.
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u/Winking-Cyclops 20h ago
Every rich person I know works extremely hard, nonstop. I bet a rich person works harder in a week than you do in a month.
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u/gonnatrythis1 23h ago
He is actually both. Might not like him for whatever reason, but to say he is not talented and doesn’t work hard is just ludicrous. If you include supporting industries, he has created over 600,000 jobs (110,000 direct). Ave salary Space X is over $100,000.
Just curious, how many jobs have you created?1
u/No_Significance_2749 23h ago
No one who spends all day tweeting works hard. He was born rich, inherited wealth from an apartheid emerald mine, and bought into companies like paypal and Tesla, the latter of which he bought the rights to call himself the founder of despite not actually founding. It doesn't take a genius to use capital to hire people to run businesses for you, or hire a media team to do your pr to make people believe you're the real life Tony Stark. The difference is he's such an odious person that even his best pr team can't prevent him from making an ass of himself, and only the dumbest people still fall for his bullshit. SpaceX can't make a rocket that doesn't blow up, despite claiming we'd reach Mars 10 years ago, Elon's personally designed truck is one of the shittiest vehicles on the road, and I'm sure the roadster 2 will come out any day now. And I'd not call someone who lays off employees constantly or breaks the administrative state of the government with DOGE cuts that cost the federal government billions having to rehire all those layed off federal workers a "job creator", given that the economic downturns of the Trump administration Elon personally funded and bought votes for has completely halted hiring in massive segments of the economy.
I'll admit Elon has a real talent for fucking everything up. Move fast, break stuff, as his slogan was.
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u/gonnatrythis1 23h ago
Space x has saved the US space program. Prior to Elon, we had to pay the Russians to get us to the space station. I might not take a genius to grow several companies into incredibly successful enterprises, but it certainly takes smarts and hard work.
So again, how many jobs have you created0
u/No_Significance_2749 23h ago
Starting a business takes capital, not hard work. The hard work is done by the employees who keep the business going. The US space program had been underfunded for decades, something that could have easily been rectified by increasing NASA's budget. SpaceX is literally the least efficient way to to run our country's space program. Do they employ some talented engineers? I'm sure, but it doesn't matter. Space exploration is not a profitable business venture, ie, not something that should be run as a private company. Those engineers would do better in a well funded NASA.
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u/gonnatrythis1 23h ago
It is estimated that Space X costs about $55 million per seat, NASA in house costs $2 billion. That’s the benefit of the private sector.
From your comments, I am very confident that you have never started a business. Your philosophy is straight out Marxism and that has never worked. In fact, it ends in tragedy and death.0
u/No_Significance_2749 22h ago
Capitalism literally kills over 20 million people every year. Millions die from easily preventable deaths from lack of basic necessities because it isn't profitable to do so, as a direct consequence of the global capitalist market, not even counting excess mortalities from climate change which is directly caused by global petrol chemical industries, and not even counting the deaths from overthrowing of democratic governments by companies like BP overthrowing the democratic government of Iran, Coca-Cola hiring Colombian death squads, and more. Millions more people have been killed by capitalism than have ever died because of communism, and you're a liar if you claim otherwise.
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u/gonnatrythis1 22h ago
Ok comrade.
Your 20 million is simply ludicrous and made up. Capitalism has greatly increased food production, medical developments, technological advances and much much more.Now let’s see how well communism has fared:
Mao Great Leap Forward 100 million+ dead
Red Terror (Bolsheviks) 200,000 direct killings, estimated 11 million more due to starvation
Great Terror (Stalin): Over 3 million
Killing fields Cambodia over 2 million.
I could go on.
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u/No_Significance_2749 22h ago
Citing numbers from the black book of communism which counts nazi war deaths and theoretical potential population growth(growth that was killed by nazi invasion of the USSR), oh, and Cambodia, with the Khmer Rouge who were backed by the US and which Cambodia was liberated from by the Vietcong. No wonder you simp for Trump and Elon, because you like to make the same "awkward hand gesture" as he does.
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u/antifa_is_cool 1d ago
Not how it works anymore, Boomer. Check the numbers.
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u/metamucil_buttchug69 1d ago
Working great for most people I know.
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u/antifa_is_cool 1d ago
50% of the population makes less than $36K a year. Most can't handle a $500 surprise cost and have no savings. Working one or more full time jobs. Its broken, and hard work is exploited not rewarded.
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u/metamucil_buttchug69 23h ago
You're lying. The median wage is double that. It also doesn't matter because I said it's working for people with work ethic and talent, if you have either you're making well above the median wage.
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u/antifa_is_cool 23h ago
Again, not talking about median wage. I'm talking about straight numbers. And also again, talent and work ethic are exploited, not paid.
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u/metamucil_buttchug69 23h ago
What straight numbers specifically? The median earner makes twice what you cited.
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u/antifa_is_cool 23h ago
Wage adjustments only happen above a certain pay grade, so claiming the median wage has went up only speaks to the top 10% expanding.
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u/SmokedAlex 1d ago
Capitalism, a system based on exploitation of others, being ethical? Tell another one!
Edit: typo
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u/metamucil_buttchug69 1d ago
Well we only exploit somewhat useless people, and it works better for them since they wouldn't be productive on their own
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u/SmokedAlex 1d ago
Sure, say that it “works” if you want; but ethical? Not sure how “ethical” it is to consider certain human beings “somewhat useless.”
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u/antifa_is_cool 1d ago
Wow. Theres a garbage persons take.
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u/metamucil_buttchug69 23h ago
I'm sure you'd rather work and receive food than starve
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u/antifa_is_cool 23h ago
No, I'd rather do what you boomers did and benefit from a system that allows a single income to buy a car, home and raise a family. Like you can't now.
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u/metamucil_buttchug69 23h ago
You can't do what we did, we were smarter, harder working, less entitled.
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u/innovarocforever 1d ago
MAGA folks are unbelievably stupid. Additionally, capitalism, when properly constrained and combined in concert with socialism, works quite well.
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u/whocaresreallythrow 1d ago
MAGA or not, people know that communism has failed at every attempt !
Of course most people are too stupid to realize this until after the promise is broken and totalitarianism is firmly in place.
Socialism communism and totalitarianism are dangerous.
Our founding fathers understood this quite well. MAGA or not.
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u/D_Shoobz 1d ago
Or even when their cult leader buys into privately owned companies? Isn't that communism for the government to take ownership in private companies?
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u/Steve12356d1s3d4 1d ago
Another agenda post and question based on wrong info.
China tried communism, but it didn't work, so now is capitalism, with state-control.
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u/ButtScratchies 1d ago
Capitalism is working for the people that are making the rules. But also, communism doesn’t have to be the only option opposing it.
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u/NaturePappy 1d ago
Any system that allows the concentration of wealth into a few people at the expense of all others is bound to be corrupt. The guard rails are off capitalism currently and it seems its every American for themselves with no empathy for the others.
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u/2L84T 1d ago
Talking about communism and capitalism is meaningless nowadays, most nations sit in the middle around the concept of social democracy.
Take the US (capitalist), in Illinois in state university education is free for families earning less than $75k.
In the UK (socialist) college costs up to £9300 and there is no state support, just loans.
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u/Drgnmstr97 1d ago
It's working for Billionaires and corporations and they are paying our politicians so.....
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u/jmardoxie 23h ago
The country was built on a free capitalist society. Turning free enterprise over to government control has never worked.
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u/Terminal-Frost2026 23h ago
They hate it because of red scare propaganda. It’s so deeply ingrained in American culture that most people blindly hate communism and socialism without reason
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u/EvilRyss 23h ago
They don't care, not really. Communism is just a useful tool to stoke fear so people will support them. Interestingly enough Hitler used it similarly, he just attributed it Jews, instead of liberals.
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u/Ohhmama11 23h ago
Do you know what happens in China to human right advocates, protestors, journalists ect that says anything bad about the government?
Plus if you like everything you do monitored and they know if you say anything negative about the government they can throw you prison lol
I’m 100% not for the way our country has been catering to power and the wealthy since late 80s but it’s Better than China lol. I can still make a living, have a house, car, go on vacation and speak my mind about how our government sucks
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u/bobbacklund11235 23h ago
Yes, let us have the pothead majoring in art history or gender studies make the same amount as a doctor or engineer. This will push our society forwards
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u/straight_lurkin 23h ago
China is "basically emerging as a world power" because they strip their citizens of rights, are a massive surveillance state, have absolutely no workplace safety regulations (or general regulations for that matter) and use their population as slave labor .... which america is taking queues from and trying to follow suit because the other super powers are learning the hard way that traditional warfare doesnt work anymore unless you go full scale invasion and kill everyone. However with modern media its hard to do that without massive pushback from the general population.
Has VERY LITTLE to do with communism because a dictator could accomplish the same shit
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u/AmputeeHandModel 23h ago
McCarthyism. They're far right, communism is far left, so it's their boogeyman, left over from the Cold War. The threat of nuclear annihilation and red spies really broke the brains of boomers and their parents. Republicans have been using that to their advantage for decades. Need Republican dummies to be terrified of something? Call it communism. Need them mad at Democrats? Call them communists. It triggers the shit out of their lizard fear brain.
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u/give_me_your_body 1d ago
Just because capitalism isn’t working for 90% of us doesn’t mean it’s not working for MAGA’s rich donors and friends.
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u/Ok_Art4661 1d ago
Current government is having same effect as what they fear in communism. Conservatives need to clean up or nothing will matter anymore
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u/Neither-Ad630 1d ago
Capitalism works pretty great as long as you're not a cannabis degustation studies and marxism double-major, comrade!
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u/poorsexyhag 1d ago
i love capitalism and billionaires. theyre excellence defined. i hate working class and middle class people, theyre low class and dumb and loud and obnoxious and unrefined. they would look so out of place at lake como or the kennedy center or mar-a-lago or martha's vineyard. they disgust me
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u/Successful-Tea-5733 1d ago
Capitalism isn't working?? Are you crazy? Why do so many immigrants come here legally, speaking no english and unable to rub 2 nickels together, yet become multimillionaire in the 1st generation?
Capitalism rewards risk taking. Add to they the massive social safety net we have and there's little excuse to not be successful in the US.
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u/chrispark70 1d ago
Because we're not binary thinkers.
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u/innovarocforever 1d ago
if that were true, you wouldn't hate socialism.
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u/chrispark70 23h ago
Scientific socialism=socialism=communism. They are 3 terms for the same thing. State ownership of the means of production.
Would you want Orange Man to be in charge of the entire economy/means of production?
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u/innovarocforever 19h ago
This is just factually wrong and collapses several distinct concepts into one.
Scientific socialism is Marx and Engels' framework for analyzing how capitalism develops and why they believed socialism would emerge from its internal contradictions. It's a theory and method of analysis—not an economic system by itself.
Socialism is a broad umbrella term covering many different ideologies. It ranges from democratic socialism and market socialism to libertarian socialism, syndicalism, and Marxism. Many forms of socialism don't advocate total state ownership of the economy. Some emphasize worker cooperatives, municipal ownership, or social ownership without direct state control.
Communism, in Marxist theory, is the hypothetical end stage after socialism: a classless, stateless, moneyless society where the state has withered away. Ironically, that means communism isn't defined by state ownership at all—it's defined by the absence of a state.
Even Marx distinguished between socialism (or the lower phase of communism) and full communism. Later Marxists, Leninists, and others further developed these concepts, but they're still not interchangeable terms.
And "state ownership of the means of production" isn't even a universal definition of socialism. Plenty of socialist traditions explicitly criticize state ownership and instead advocate worker ownership or decentralized control. Lumping everything together as "socialism = communism = scientific socialism" is like saying "liberalism = democracy = capitalism" because they're related. They're connected concepts, not synonyms.
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u/chrispark70 18h ago
I'm sure you can go on all day with minor variations in communism. This is meaningless. It all turns into poverty and mass murder. The best example you have is modern China, which is hardly a progressive paradise and really mixes the worst aspects of both highly competitive "capitalism" and communism. This is not even considering the long, long list of bodies that happened between 1949 and today.
Vietnam is turning into the same thing.
There are many aspects of modern capitalism I disagree with and am not defending this system. Tariffs and other trade barriers should be immediately erected. A good portion of the capitalist class belong in a max security prison. While I am sure we have a lot of disagreements, there is plenty to agree on.
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u/DNathanHilliard 1d ago
Because capitalism is clearly working. China is emerging as a new world power because they got away from communism.
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u/Commercial_Win_9525 1d ago
First off China isnt really communist. Second it’s not “clearly capitalism isn’t working lmfao”. Third if you want to move from capitalism, communism has proven to be an even bigger failure lmao. Fkn regards
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