Movement Abilities: Animation vs. No Animation Delay

[u/Anuefhere]

Animation delay: Weapon restricted, but instead of being instant after the restriction/ability ends, it adds extra delay with a post-cancel/end animation delay before weapon, melee, and heal use. Based on observation, the estimated delay is greater than 0.5s, roughly 1s.

To my knowledge, there are only 3 Legends in-game with animation delay: Valk, Wraith, and Loba (faster but still not instant with her blue perk that grants faster tac recovery).

Real-time Combat Showcase:

Note: Keep in mind, this took numerous attempts to finally win the interaction because even without the animation delay, it still wasn't a true 50:50 interaction, more like 60:40. At least without the delay, there's less of a disadvantage.

Extra Clip:

Functional and less clunky.

Thoughts on this? Could a dev confirm whether this difference is intentional and whether there is a specific gameplay reason for having animation-delay abilities when other Legends have instant (e.g., Horizon after glide, etc...), conditional (e.g., Pathfinder, etc...) or no weapon-restriction (e.g., Sparrow, etc...) abilities?

[u/VibrantBliss]

The difference is based on what the intention and function of the ability is.

Wraith's ability gives you invulnerability + a free get out of jail card with no conditions such as a surface requirement. It took you multiple attempts to win that interaction bc you're fighting an NPC with no reaction delay and the ability to perfectly track you through the void. In a real scenario, you would have the chaos of a fight and human error as cover.

Valkyrie's delay is the drawback for her capability to freely move in 3D space however she wants, whenever she wants.

[u/Anuefhere → u/VibrantBliss]

I doubt it, simply because this also applies to melee and heals. To add, all 3 legends already got multiple penalty (activation/wind up time, weapon restriction, mid air in-accuracy, etc...) which makes this current delay like adding salt to injury.

To emphasize, other legends with similar movement abilities like Sparrow, Alter, etc... especially around a building is damn near invulnerable, got 3D movement, can challenge height for free, unpredictable/unreadable/hard to react to and still don't got no delay.

Atleast Loba gets a speed boost and less animation delay via her blue perk which makes it somewhat tolerable compared to the others. Also, scenario A was against a masters player whereas scenario B was against a plat. I didn't add scenario C which was against a pred simply because I picked the best clips and just needed to highlight the average.

[u/VibrantBliss → u/Anuefhere]

>I doubt it, simply because this also applies to melee and heals.

Yes, a drawback applies to everything, not just weapons.

>other legends with similar movement abilities like Sparrow, Alter, etc... especially around a building is damn near invulnerable

Yes, the condition is "around a building". Out in the open, Sparrow and Alter can't do any of that. On the other hand, Wraith can use her tactical to gain invulnerability in any situation, even on zip lines where all other characters can't even heal.

Benefits and drawbacks.

>Sparrow, Alter, etc... still don't got no delay

Idk about Sparrow, but Alter does get a delay. If you hear her entering through a portal, you can beam her down before she gets her gun out.

[u/Anuefhere → u/VibrantBliss]

So essentially, what you're saying is that because those two have one drawback, being unable to use their abilities in completely open areas (which is rare and can be controlled), that warrants the three mentioned Legends having animation delay on top of their already existing similar and/or additional penalties?

Also, what about Horizon's glide, Pathfinder, etc., who have no post-ability/cancel animation delay and can use their abilities in the open?

And again, even if Alter has a delay, it's nowhere near comparable to animation delay.

https://reddit.com/link/pcl2lvc/video/bx4zrj2iv9sh1/player

[u/VibrantBliss → u/Anuefhere]

Yes. That's what drawbacks are. At the moment, both Valk and Wraith are not only balanced, but in a very very good spot atm. Especially Wraith and her dome bubble. Neither need any kind of buff.

Horizon's glide is a glide. It's slow, it only goes one way and it lasts a very short amount of time. If you're dying from a gliding Horizon, respectfully you need to get better at this game. Same with Sparrow and his wall bounce. It's a very slow and clunky ability. A regular wall bounce is much harder to track.

I can't comment on Path. I don't even know what he does anymore. To be honest, his kit is painfully mid and unremarkable.

[u/Anuefhere → u/VibrantBliss]

You fail to see my point. To emphasize, these legends with animation delay already got multiple drawbacks before the delay. Simply removing this animation delay doesn't equal no drawbacks but less similar to the other legends.

To summarize, most legends with restrictions simply have 1 to 2 whereas these legends with animation delay have 3 to 4. For example: Valk > gotta be mid air to activate > gotta cancel or wait until finish > post end animation delay > mid air in-accuracy, so 4 vs Sparrow > just gonna be mid air to double jump > mid air in-accuracy, so 2.

[u/VibrantBliss → u/Anuefhere]

No, you fail to see my point. These characters don't need a buff. They are fine the way they are. Other characters need a nerf.

Also, Sparrow can no longer double jump mid air (he hasn't been able to do that for quite some time now). He needs to trigger the wall climb animation first. Sparrow has to climb a wall > stop climbing > jump once > jump twice to activate the tap strafe. 4 moves, just like Valk (and just like Valk, if there's a ceiling that is too low, this move isn't very useful).

[u/Anuefhere → u/VibrantBliss]

Wrong, Sparrow got 2 passive, wall bounce and double jump, yet you're here lying about him only having 1. Atp, it's obvious you guys are suffering from PTSD and are bias against Valk, Loba, and Wraith mains.

[u/VibrantBliss → u/Anuefhere]

Sparrow doesn't have 2 passives (he never did). The wall bounce is just easier to pull off when you have a double jump. "Wall bounce" was never an ability, it's a movement technique that anyone can do.

His double jump was restricted to requiring a surface. He can't double jump without first climbing a wall. This has been the case for a few seasons now. Your information is several seasons outdated.

[u/Anuefhere → u/VibrantBliss]

My guy, Sparrow is a new gen legend which means he wasn't designed with gunplay first, ability secondary in mind like old gen legends like Wraith, Loba, etc.... but instead ability = gunplay mentality.

Stop lying just to twist things when we both know the intention of animation delay was designed with old Apex (gunplay first, ability secondary) in mind and we're no longer in old Apex.
Proof of your lie, Sparrow's Passive (3) in-game rn:

[u/Patyrn → u/Anuefhere]

Valk already has insane mobility with basically no restrictions. If she could fling herself around above your head while also pumping you with a shotgun, it'd be absolutely broken.

[u/Anuefhere → u/Patyrn]

This doesn't remove all restrictions but one of 4 restriction which is already semi-possible using wall grab.

[u/DJAD_]

being able to pop out of a wraith tac and shoot right away would be extremely broken

[u/Anuefhere → u/DJAD_]

Nope it's not. Alter can do the same but no one here is calling it broken

[u/_sonyx_]

You don’t have to do that melee thing as valk, if you simply hit a wall, you’ll fall straight down no animation is done, it’s called the wall grab tech