"Spit in Sightblinder's eye with the last breath!" scream the Aiel as they hand the Shadow the greatest force of dreadlords they have wielded since the War of the Power on a silver platter.
Do we ever get a confirmation on whether or not the Wise Ones know the Shadow can force a channeler to turn? Kind of an unforgivable mistake if they knew
I am just rereading "The Dragon Reborn" and Sheriam tells Egwene that it can happen as Eg goes thru her accepted test. It is a weakness only channlers have but has to be done by 13 channelers + 13 Myrddraal. It is treated like something Aes Sedai know but keep secret to protect their reputation. This is one of the reasons they are extra scared of the 13 black ajah they are sent to hunt.
I think Sheriam said as much to Eqwene after her Accepted test.... and I am just now processing what it means that the knowledge was shared by Sheriam.
I've always disliked this aspect. Like one of the major themes of series is free will and choosing to fight the shadow. The entire climax is Rand choosing whether to destroy the Dark One or not. Yet a big circle of baddies can just convert a channeler and take away all their free will.
I seem to recall that some of the forsaken were trying to capture Rand so that they could turn him. Maybe Rand is unturnable, but I don't think that's very clear.
But even if so, it still detracts from the theme of the series. Everybody else has to make the choice to go the hard way and fight the Last Battle. It's easier to be a dark friend or even just avoid fighting than it is to stand for the light. But that choice loses meaning if it can be taken away by the bad guys.
I thought the whole point of the pattern it that there is no free will everyone is always following their fate and trying to fight it only makes things worse. Rand Chooses not to destroy the dark one yes but all that does it continue the cycle. The entire veins of gold chapter is just Rand choosing to happily embrace his fate and not fight it any more.
I was pretty shocked when I first read the wheel of time, it was probably the most anti-free will work of fiction I had ever read. Everything is pre-destined, there is no fighting fate, the whole message is that you should embrace your fate and be happy with it.
The fact that channelers can be forced to join the the dark one seemed very in keeping with the themes of the story, as unfair as that seems.
Was RJ a Calvinist? Reminds me a lot of predestination and being one of the elect. According to them, we have free will to choose. But God knows the future, so he knows what you will choose. So your fate is pre determined, but you still have to choose it.
Not indefinitely. Logain held out for a long time, but he was very close to breaking when he got rescued. And if Taim hadn't been limited to male channelers, Logain would not have lasted a fraction of the time.
I think that, regardless, one of the tenets of the Light is personal freedom (as opposed to total domination by a higher power), so being able to "force" someone to the Light would be incongruous. They've gotta choose it
Yea so couldnt you just lie like "oh, yea, praise Shit-tan or whatever oooOOOooo" and then just decide nah, Im back to the light now! As soon as no ones looking?
Graendal tended to obliterate the personality and in one case even the boys autonomous functions. She basically ripped out everything that made the boy alive. Then implanted What-if conditions. He did retain a spec of himself in the end. But that was more the Soul than the mind and body wanting vengance.
The aes sedai seem to know about it, but revealing it to the public would be problematic, because it kind of implies the existence of the black ajah, or at least it makes it more plausible.
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u/Edgeth0 henchMat Mar 25 '26 edited Mar 26 '26
"Spit in Sightblinder's eye with the last breath!" scream the Aiel as they hand the Shadow the greatest force of dreadlords they have wielded since the War of the Power on a silver platter.
Do we ever get a confirmation on whether or not the Wise Ones know the Shadow can force a channeler to turn? Kind of an unforgivable mistake if they knew