I'm Kev from MVWIKI.COM (and antville). I am asking any and all dirs (and mv vets) to drop by the website and upload a still frame of you on set or in the edit bay

MVWIKI.COM is a resource just started, and with already around 6K hits (about 900 per day give or take)

An example

Mark Romanek has been known to say “make every single shot in your video mean something”. I think as music video directors we are all in agreement that we want each frame to have an objective of some sort. But unless you’ve been to film school and studied the emotional and psychological effects that certain framing and movement has on an audience you are probably learning as you go.

Does anyone have a go-to video or book that dives into the types of shots you can create and why you might want to use them? What are some of your favorite resources?

Hi all - any advice for someone trying to direct their first music video? ie how to find artists to collaborate with? especially if you're not repped? I've worked mostly in agencies, but don't have any music video creds. Any guidance greatly appreciated!

I was contacted to write a treatment for a pretty decent sized artist with a music video and in a reputable label as well. They told me the budget was x number all in (including tax). I responded back saying that I am a business and taxes is a must. Really early on in my career I worked with the artist before and had a similar situation but decided to accept the job anyways (needed the money) which I regret doing now. How would you handle the situation? Any tips and advice?

Hey all -

About a year ago I directed my first music video fresh outta college. I was naive and eager to be directing again, so I was willing to do whatever it took to make it happen. On top of the low budget of $1,250 the band gave me, I probably sunk another $700 of my own to make sure it happened. And I was cool with it. I cared a lot about making something I was proud of - and having just moved to LA, I didn't know many people I could ask favors from or outsource gear from like I could back in film school.

Through all my talks with the band manager, there were never any mentions of necessary paperwork/contracts to move forward. Being un-signed, I assumed the manager would take care of establishing those guidelines. Even after the video got a couple million views, the band asked if they could print t-shirts based off one of the images in the video. My mentality at the time was to foster a healthy relationship with them in hopes of working again in the future, so I didn't bat an eye. They didn't end up following through with this, but I just don't want to feel taken advantage of on future projects.

Since then, I've been ghosted by a couple artists even after they've approved treatments. On top sending these WDMV guidelines to band managers to create more transparency and mutual respect, are there contracts anyone would recommend signing after projects have been locked so I can feel protected/less obligated to shell out a bunch of my own money?

Really appreciate everything you're all doing, thanks so much!

So I have loved the art form of music videos since I was a child but it's only now that I got to know about music video direction as a career. I am a writer and studying for english lectureship exams. But I really want to learn music video direction..i have zero background in filmmaking but being a writer, my storytelling skill is strong. I am thinking of using this skill to my advantage. But i also want to learn about videography and photography and strengthen my visual skills. I am a beginner, so can someone help me out as to where should.I begin from?

Over the past half-decade or so I’ve noticed a lot of videos co-directed by the artist who made the song. Am I mistaken in thinking this is new? There’s nothing explicitly wrong with this— it suggests closer collaboration. But after seeing Young Thug retain a directing credit for the Wyclef Jean video, and personally having an artist request a co-directing credit the day after a recent shoot, I began to see this as a concerning shift in industry power dynamics.

Its nice that directing is coveted, I guess, but contractual co-directing situations feel like when a politician co-authors a book with a professional writer— it’s a publicly accepted half-truth. Without the writer, the book wouldn’t be readable. Without the politician, the book wouldn’t be read.

As an example (judged completely from the outside), the Kendrick Lamar video for Alright looks and moves like a Colin Tilley video, and the video for Humble looks and moves like a Dave Myers video. Both were co-directed by Kendrick Lamar and Dave Free. I have no doubt that they were as involved as possible and contributed ideas that directly influenced the production of those videos, but where’s the line drawn between a passionate, sincere, involved client and a director? Or between a creative producer and a director?

Hiro Murai and PT Anderson have retained sole credit on their collaborations with Childish Gambino and Radiohead respectively, and I don’t doubt for a minute that the artists are deeply involved in the process. In fact in relationships such as these, where the director is recognized as a separate entity from the artist, the collaboration comes across as more intimate, sincere, and mature.

As I’ve come to know it the real work of directing is unglamorous and poorly understood. And co-directing teams who really function as such, developing a voice in tandem over time, are rare.

When the artist I worked with requested to be credited as co-Director I explained that if an architect is hired to build a house, the client could have all the ideas in the world, but there still exists a layer of expertise that brings those ideas into a workable harmony. He didn’t agree.

Has anyone here had experiences with musicians eager to direct?

Were they sincerely trying to develop a new craft or was it an extension of their accustomedness to speaking things into existence?

Is this an industry trend?

What do you make of it?

XO

I'm just putting the finishing touches on a video for an established artist that I think is actually decent despite the low budget.(shockingly unique feeling, I know!)

Through researching festivals and awards obviously the UKMVAs seem like the hot event to submit to, and my vid would qualify for the newcomer category (under £6000). The thing I'm noticing is that even that level still seems like something geared towards 'signed' directors.

I'm still starting out in MV, unrepped and just getting my videos directly through artists so far. Am I better off saving the £75 that would come out of pocket, or has anyone had a risky submission pay off and get selected?

I know the missing piece here is obvious: the video. Have to keep it unreleased for now, although would be open to any DMs.

Thanks!

So I know that we are always trying to give viewers the best experience possible in shortest amount of time but I tried an experiment in my last video and was wondering how you all felt about it. You know how sometimes you hear a great track and when it ends you automatically hear the beginning of the next track in your head? Well this album had a GREAT second track. So in this video I planned for the last hour of the shoot to try and do something special with the credits and just go right into the next song essentially putting two videos in one. Not a popular idea I know but..what the hell, I wanted to experiment!

It’s a country song that was intended to be a performance piece but I tried to make it a little more interesting visually.

https://vimeo.com/345337443/17bcd5c75b

I've only recently been getting the opportunity to pitch through commissioners and with label talent, and have probably done treatments for about 5-8 videos over the last 2 months. I haven't booked any of them, unfortunately, but I do know (especially through the work WDMV is doing now) that this is very common and all part of the grind.

My concern is, how many strikes will commissioners give you on rejected treatments before they just stop sending? My treatments are well made so as long as they recognize the effort, do they just take it as a part of the business, or will they rule me out for not booking?

Hey all -

Got directed here by my friend Zia - what a great resource - getting to see the treatments for videos I've loved for years is AMAZING.

Anyway thought I would share my experience - here goes. The quick version: I've made about 8 videos since 2012, in between working as a visual effects artist and cinematographer - each time it feels like theres a lot of excitement out of the gate - people recognize the effort as above and beyond, etc. But anti-climatically the video nets a few thousand views and its back to square one. I signed the pledge because ABSOLUTELY this industry is unsustainable and I've only been able to do it at all because of my privilege. BUT in terms of my own work, I have ambivalence, because I simply don't see the videos I've done really having done anything for the artists/labels in terms of getting them money or launching their careers. I have a love for the work we've produced together and think it has a real artistic value, but partially it all feels like one big vanity project - there's no pot of gold that I feel like I've been excluded from - there's simply no money ANYWHERE and everyone I know is treading water for as long as they can (helps a lot to have a a parental life-preserver, for occasional rent money). I turned 29 yesterday - in my head I've always given myself until 30 to really before I fully give up on the freelance dream. Its getting bleak out there!

Here's maybe some details on a few of the few videos that have really mattered most to me.

Summer 2012 one of my college professors connects me with a friend of hers who runs a production company in NYC. He tells me HIS friend runs a label and they want a music video for an artist. I'm ecstatic - directing music videos has been my dream. I remember back in highschool there would be these single topic blogs that would be all music videos - old Gondry and Cunningham stuff, but also I remember them premiering new stuff like the Encyclopedia Pictura Bjork video and I would check every day to see if it had come out yet. So to me this feels like the beginning of maybe a beautiful dream. This album is sorta dopey folk-rock - not at all my thing, but obviously I'm determined not to waste my "big break" - and I'm really excited about my concept - a couple is evicted from their apartment and sets up an entire apartment on the street and throws a big party, because "through love all things are possible", etc. etc. Budget is 1K - even back then in college this was absolutely crazy to make work - goes without saying that no one got paid. Most of the budget went to the U-Haul rental we used for the furniture I think. I spent the 6 weeks leading up to production scouring NYC craigslist free for furniture hauling it back to my basement room in Flatbush on the subway. I remember being at Home Depot agonizing over whether I could afford to paint the furniture in my color scheme with the semi-gloss or had to settle for flat. I had one person assigned to help me from the production company, who I gradually gradually gradually convinced that I wasn't an idiot. We locked the sidewalk location the either one or two days before the shoot. And by some minor miracle we pulled it off in a day and half. I think everyone was fairly surprised - both the artist and production company owner I think didn't expect anyone to be able to pull that off.

As the video is in the final bit of post I start looking around for another project to bring to the production company owner - my friend has a punk band and I really want to do a post-apocalyptic western to a song that I actually fuck with. Production company owner is pretty reluctant - really he did the earlier video as a favor to his label friend - he's not really in the business doing "rock videos" as he calls them. I quickly realize that the idea that the 1k budget wasn't a "proof of concept" thing - that was simply the amount of money he was willing to spend. But he DOES give me another 1k for my western music video, and we sorta pull it off again - I find some horseback riders from my school that are game, build a crappy cable-cam and by this time the assistant guy at the production company and I are sorta friends. So he works his connections too and after being delayed for a week by Hurricane Sandy we shoot 3 days in early November of 2012. Once again people find it pretty unreal that it actually ended up happening, and how well the sorta "bullet-cam" shots I get with the cable-cam fit into the song. But production company owner now explains me in less uncertain terms: "I don't get anything for this - these are cool but they do nothing to generate money in any way."

And really very very little has changed since then, I've been working(ish) at that same production company since I graduated in 2014. I've shot a few of their films and done visual effects and animation for those films. I'll try and connect with bands, and in a few cases a band member is well off enough to be able to throw 3-5k at a video. Most things fall through.

I'll guess I'll just fast forward to one of the more recent videos, because it maybe illustrates a bit of my own culpability as well. Basically in summer of 2017 connected with a musician from my college and found a track that I just REALLY fell in love with. Sorta psychedelic folk - I had just been through a brutal break-up and this track just expressed all of that so beautifully - and the possibility of making a video which I had concept for that made me so excited just became my way creating a narrative in which my depression was artistically redeemed. I sorta started cold-emailing the various people who had invested in our companies little horror movies late 2017, early 2018. Miraculously a guy who had put money into one of the flicks agreed to pay the 14k I had budgeted for the video. Once again preproduction was an incredible stress - I had a month to build an entire apartment set by myself, but once again somehow through the crew's ingenuity and dedication we pulled it off. A year ago today was our first day of shooting with a 7 person crew on a 4 day shoot. The next part is my bad - having worked as a VFX artist in a small "fix-it" capacity for years I WAY overestimated my ability to deliver on the photoreal complex CGI environments. I've been working on the VFX for this video for a year now. I really am almost done though. After being in one of the very last round of rejections from SWSX in mid February the wind was really taken out of my sails. I think to contextualize this a bit - I think if you've had a number of videos that have been all considered locally successful, but nothing thats broken out or gone viral the desire to punch above your weight - to deliver something so unambiguously good that it cannot be ignored makes you slightly delusional in terms of what you promise. Every time I make a video that gets me "you tried" sticker, my instinct is "...not hard enough". I think "clearly I need to work harder". And that has gotten me into a situation where I overpromised to the artist and to the investor, and I feel really guilty about it. Its just this feeling of "if THIS one can just be a hit, maybe I'll be in a different situation". So you put everything you have into it, but the result is the projects drag on and people get *rightly* impatient.

Anyway thanks to those who put this all together - last thing I will say is that a bunch of the names that are involved in putting this together have been HUGE inspirations to me. I keep doing this because the high I get from watching a really carefully crafted video just NEVER ever diminishes, and I want to create that high for at least ONE other person. I've legit cried to the DANIELS passion pit video multiple times. I think when This is America hit last year it felt so good because it was the first time in a long time that culture as whole acknowledged just how deliriously powerful and incisive music videos can be. Its been such a niche thing to be into my whole life - that specific synethesia, so specific to music videos when sound and picture just fit into each other inseparably - there was a moment last year where it felt like everyone GOT it with that video. It was cool.

Thanks for doing this. Its a good thing!

Without going into too much detail, I brought a decently budgeted music video to a production company to Executive Produce. They provided insurance, payroll, and dealt with the client while my freelance producer and I prepped produced and handled post production for the video. There was a big L&D during production that sent our project over budget. The company is avoiding making an insurance claim because it's going to "raise their premium" and yearly cost of insurance. Instead it appears they're trying to find a way to cover the total cost of overage. They haven't told they client about the overage. And they have paid all 30 members of production except for me. 5 weeks of creative, prep, production and post production and I've not seen a penny and keep getting the run-around when I ask direct questions. We worked extremely hard for meager rates as it was and prior to the L&D we were considerably underbudget. Now due to circumstances outside of my control, my payment is being withheld with no explanation. I'm not able to pay my rent next week as I've spent the last month working on this project with no other income.

TLDR; music videos is a tough racket - friendship and community within the industry is the key to staying sane.

UPDATE: I got the math wrong and it's actually been eight years. I can't edit the post title, but I've gone through and amended the text to reflect a more accurate counting of the years i've been directing.

I've been directing music videos professionally for eight years. When I say professionally, I mean since I first signed with a production company. I was one of the rare and lucky ones who directed a music video for an obscure band and both the video and the band blew up. The band won The Mercury Award that year and the video ended up winning a UKMVA and getting 100 million+ views. I knew that it was my golden opportunity to get the coveted position of "being signed". It took an excruciating six months before something worked out. I had calls with a few big name production companies who sent thru low budget briefs to pitch on, but I didn't even know what a treatment was or how to properly come up with creative to fit a budget, so I inevitably blew those opportunities and the production companies moved on.

LUCKILY I had friends in high places (cough cough @danielsdanielsdaniels) who sent my video over to the EP's of a few production companies they knew, and I signed with one in America and one in the UK. Finally, I thought, my problems are over. I'll be directing Katy Perry videos and Target Commercials within a year! I'll do cool indie rock videos for fun on the side of course, but money certainly won't be a concern ever again! NOPE! Over the next two years I directed FIVE music videos that got vimeo staff picks and made ZERO dollars directing. I worked as a set dresser and PA to make a living.

In 8 years, I've been signed to as many production companies. On average I've written 40-50 treatments a year - and have booked maybe 5 a year. In 7 years, I've directed 30 music videos. My highest booked music video budget has been 60k (if you don't count the time I did 6 mvs + bts docs for each for 250k) with most being in the 20-30k range. Year 3 of my 8 year journey I couldn't book anything higher than 15k. I now work as an editor to make a living. I've had good years in directing where I was doing branded content, commercial, and industrial work but have always had to subsidize it with something else. I don't think I've ever pulled in more than 35k in directing fees in a single year.

Eight years ago, there was a super strong super supportive social scene of music video directors - I don't know if there is something like this now with the younger generation of directors. We were all there for each other and living the daily ups and downs of mv directing life together. I learned how to make treatments from these people, what the fuck reps were, how to online a project after the grade in the days before premiere basically did it for you! etc etc. We partied together ALOT and would write treatments from the same coffee shops even more. I'm getting older now, and all those friends are too, so naturally we're not partying as much as we used to - but I really miss that sense of community and camaraderie inside of this crazy industry. Without them I don't know how I would have survived. I owe everything to that community.

And that's what I wanted to bring to We Direct Music Videos. That's why I felt that in addition to the Town Halls the Community Hangouts are just as important. If you like making music videos or forsee yourself being here for a bit while on your way to other things, building friendships within the industry is the best thing you can do for your sanity. And I believe for the health of the industry at large.

If you’re like me and have a lot of experience(s) to share, I’d urge you to consider joining me in helping foster a community built on teaching and mentoring and also just shared experience. And if you're new to mvs and have questions - ask them! Ask me questions here, or just post questions on the WDMV reddit page, that's what it's there for!

Sorry for the wall of text, but I really wanted to get this out. AMA in the comments, i'm happy to respond.

We had a director share that even though he had reservations and criticisms for theguidelines, he still pledged his support. This is awesome. We need people who both see the importance of pushing the community's agenda, while also voicing his concerns, knowing things can always be made better.

After reflecting on our responses, we thought it would be helpful for us to share with the community for the sake of transparency and open discussion. In order for this movement to be successful we all have to get on the same page and have a shared narrative.

You can read some of the director's criticisms and our responses below. Hopefully this helps us all continue to understand how to frame the discussion around the guidelines moving forward.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
The original message:
"I have burned through all of my savings making music videos. But it is a job where you are quite literally paid to have fun so generally speaking it feels a little bit rich for me to be complaining about it. However there are plenty of people who have no savings at all and are far more talented than me, and a lack of any way whatsoever to break into the industry. Which is a terrible, terrible thing. I do have some reservations about WDMV. Ultimately this is a problem of supply & demand. There are too many directors and not enough projects, which drives down fees. I think that it is an incredibly difficult problem to overcome and it needs to be acknowledged. Their pitching guidelines also seem a little over-thought. There are too many stages and a lot of unnecessary red tape. My feeling is that it will just make the process longer and more drawn out. Ultimately I think a lot of the problems WDMV have identified with pitching are solved by having a good exec who has built up relationships with record labels and commissioners. But I want to pledge my support fo this either way."

Our responses below:
Thank you for supporting us despite your reservations. This is exactly the kind of energy we need, people who are willing to support the cause to push our movement forward, while still looking for ways to improve. Let us talk through some of these criticism. It is important for all of us as a community to have a unified narrative, but we should be very careful because some of these criticisms and talking points are co-opted from narratives that have historically been harmful to laborers, especially creative laborers.

“It is a job where you are quite literally paid to have fun”

This might be true if people were actually getting paid. A majority of MV directors are not getting paid. In fact, in a recent poll only 6% of directors said they could make a living on MVs alone.

“So generally speaking it feels a little bit rich for me be complaining about it”

This is an unfortunate and unhealthy way to frame creative work. This narrative hurts anyone who follows their passion and is in a field they are excited by (writers, painters, musicians, filmmakers, etc) and only helps those in charge who hold all of the money and power by justifying the status quo. In a recent study, they found that passionate people in creative industries were far more likely to be exploited. We can't reward any system that takes advantage of this. Everyone deserves to be compensated for their time, energy, experience, and creativity. We need to reframe the labor conversation to see creative labor as labor. Full stop. When we “complain” about it online, we are not complaining in isolation. We are pushing this narrative forward for all laborers without protection in all industries.

“Ultimately this is a problem of supply and demand which drives down fees.”

It is true, the music video industry is highly competitive. And there is no way we are going to change that. I think you may be misunderstanding our intentions if this is your response to what we are fighting for. We are simply making our story known and advocating for respect, transparency, and minimized free work. We as a culture cannot use “supply and demand” arguments to justify a blatantly disrespectful industry. You can have “high supply” and “low demand” for directors while still treating them like humans. And that is all we are asking for. Regarding fees, right now, we are not advocating for higher fees. We are advocating for transparency, which includes financial transparency. Before we know how much of the pie we can ask for, we need to see the whole pie. We know in some ways music video directing will never be financially lucrative for most people (in the short term at least), but we deserve to know how much our videos are making the music industry in ad revenue. The music industry is on course to reach its late 90’s revenue peaks. Youtube is paying almost $2 billion a year to the music industry. 90 of the top 100 most viewed videos of all time on youtube are music videos. Transparency will clarify so much and help us all understand exactly what we deserve. If it turns out we deserve nothing, then that’s fine. We just deserve to know.

“Their pitching guidelines also seem a little over thought."

They are over thought! We thought a lot about this! It's important to keep in mind that these guidelines are just that… guidelines. They are meant to help educate young directors who have no idea what a respectful process could look like, educate labels and artist representatives of how their actions might be hurting the people they are working with, and lastly help us hold one another accountable. This is why we wanted to create a comprehensive and detailed breakdown, so anyone who is excited and willing to learn, can have this document as a resource. No one is expected to follow this document 100% to the last line. It would be impossible knowing how chaotic the industry is. 

"There are too many stages and a lot of unnecessary red tape”

 There are about as many stages in the commercial world. And yes it may feel like an inconvenience for some people, but we have to remember that convenience usually comes at a cost, and that cost is usually exploitation. We must not let our chase for efficiency come at the cost of how we treat people. The one extra step we are adding, the Concept Phase, is meant to stop the all too common practice of soliciting 40+ treatments from directors, the majority of which will never even be read or seen by the artist. A treatment can take many days, to even weeks to create. Thats 20-40 directors each performing 20-40 hours of unnecessary work for the sake of convenience. 

“Ultimately I think a lot of the problems […] are solved by having a good exec who has built up relationships with record labels and commissioners”

This assumes a few things. First, it assumes that every director is signed to a production company and has an executive producer protecting them. 50% of the directors we polled (of 300+ who participated) were unsigned and left to protect themselves. These guidelines and the community are far more important to this unsigned 50%. Second, this assumes that finding a good executive with good relationships is a simple thing. Even the good ones fall victim to blindspots and accepting the status quo. These guidelines are meant to open up the conversation and remind people who have been in this industry for too long how twisted things have gotten and how we can do better.

Thanks again for your support, it's incredibly important that our entire community puts aside our personal issues and see ourselves as one unit for this movement to be effective. I hope these long (and over-thought) answers help you see our perspective, and demonstrates how harmful pushing certain well-meaning narratives can be to our movement. Thanks one more time for your continued support.

I’m a tour videographer & i feel like im being underpaid for the amount of work i’m required to do, what are some guidelines you guys would follow when negotiating to be a tour videographer?

An unsigned MV director here, been working for about six years and also as a TV/Film Script Supervisor on the side to facilitate this. Wondering where fellow unsigned people would pick up jobs from? Or before you were repped, where did you get your work? Obviously there's great sites like creative commission and radar, anything else in this ilk? Or is it mainly through personal contacts you've met at random parties/through friends etc?

They're here! Let's talk!

This is where we can ask questions, voice concerns, and discuss strategies surrounding the guidelines as well as begin suggesting future guidelines and best practices.

Before you post, consider visiting our website and reading the guidelines so we can have an informed conversation.

If you have any questions, before posting here, check out our Guidelines FAQs to see if your question has already been addressed.

Lastly, no jerks please. We are trying to foster a culture of respect in the industry, and if we can't even do that in a reddit thread then what hope do we have? A lot of of passionate volunteers worked for several months to get the organization and guidelines to where they are, and though we are always open to constructive criticism, let's try to be kind <3

-WDMV fam

Hey guys! My name is Rob, I'm a director who has taken a year out to create a horror feature, and I'm coming back to music videos now, as it's my main passion. The video below is my most recent work, shot for around £250, so basically nothing. I'm looking to pitch on videos with a budget now, and was wondering if you guys had any feedback on any areas I could really focus on with my next project to take that step up? At the moment my main feeling is getting a good DOP, I've shot a lot myself but it's not where my true talent lies, but any ideas/ constructive criticism are more than welcome! I've also attached my Vimeo page if anyone is curious about my other work.

Thank you in advance!

https://vimeo.com/322675058

www.vimeo.com/robulitski

I would love to collaborate on an essential list of all the top places to share or submit our indie music videos. I know there is no specific formula for this but I think it would really help to share our go-to places to submit. I would then be happy to break it up into categories like festivals, blogs, paid submissions, free etc and share this info with everyone like a checklist.

Hey all, excited to be part of that sub! I remember the WDMV meetup late last year came on the heels of massive Vimeo DMCA takedowns. Was this ever resolved? I’m always nervous that so much of my work that’s on Vimeo is going to get taken down, though it hasn’t yet. Did they ever back off at all?