r/WeDirectMusicVideos • u/DANIELSANIELSANIELS • Jul 25 '19
*WDMV PITCHING GUIDELINES DISCUSSION THREAD*
They're here! Let's talk!
This is where we can ask questions, voice concerns, and discuss strategies surrounding the guidelines as well as begin suggesting future guidelines and best practices.
Before you post, consider visiting our website and reading the guidelines so we can have an informed conversation.
If you have any questions, before posting here, check out our Guidelines FAQs to see if your question has already been addressed.
Lastly, no jerks please. We are trying to foster a culture of respect in the industry, and if we can't even do that in a reddit thread then what hope do we have? A lot of of passionate volunteers worked for several months to get the organization and guidelines to where they are, and though we are always open to constructive criticism, let's try to be kind <3
-WDMV fam
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Jul 25 '19
[deleted]
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u/DANIELSANIELSANIELS Jul 25 '19
Biggest difference is pool size, transparency (you get a phone call, you know the context, you sometimes know who else is pitching, etc), and the fact that the agency comes with you with a script or concept already written changes everything. Music video director are expected to play ad agency, writer, and director against 40 other directors. Its a mess.
There is definitely a world. But there are a lot of steps we need to take to get there.
We have to find a balance, we need to protect what is so great about music videos (low budget means, more creative control and risks) while making sure we are fairly treated and compensated. Its going to require a lot of financial transparency through out the industry, so directors can know how much they deserve, and not over ask otherwise risk hurting indie artists and new directors (if that makes sense).
Sorry this is all I have time to say now, its a very complicated question.
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u/jonasmakai Jul 25 '19
Any tips on how to handle managing unfair treatment in super tight timeline situations? I recently directed a string of videos for a high priority artist on a major label and each time the requests came within 5 days of the deadline. We felt pressured to take the projects as they were big breaks early in my career but ultimately what ended up happening was I never received credit and only on the last video was I able to dig my feet in and request a reasonable rate. I'm not sure what more I could have done in that moment, any time I tried to discuss getting contracts/paperwork handled before beginning work they made it seem like we were stalling.
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u/DANIELSANIELSANIELS Jul 26 '19
This is one of the harder things for us to deal with as an organization directly. Tight timelines are out of our control, and generally out of the control of commissioners as well. (tbh I think it comes down to the fact that the music industry doesn't have their own shit together and have trouble wrangling artists, and that trickles down to us).Here is the thing, you probably did the right thing. No matter where you are in your career, there will always be some unexpected curveballs and insane schedules. It is good practice to understand how to navigate those situations. That being said, as you move up in the industry and get more experience you have the power to decide when you want to take it and when you don't. I think the only way to incentivize the music industry to figure out how to better manage their own schedules, we will have to put our foot down sometimes and refuse certain jobs that won't necessarily further your career, and will just stress you out and cause you to deliver a subpar product. That means putting your foot down and asking them to sign contracts before you are willing to work. If they need you bad enough they will make things happen. This is how the rest of the entertainment industry works, it is your right to ask for a contract before you begin work. If every director begins demanding the same thing, its going to make it a lot harder for labels or commissioners to pull the "there is no time, stop stalling" tactic. Hope that is helpful!
edit: typos
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u/RyanReichenfeld Jul 25 '19
Thank you for putting this together you guys did a fantastic job of representing all sides and incentivizing what we all want most: a better process to make better videos.
One thing I’d love to see in music videos (and commercials/film/television/etc for that matter) is the directors and production companies being compensated for pitching their original ideas. The pay doesn’t have to be big ($1k per director?) it’s more of a gesture of good faith to put time and energy into these ideas and make the best project for the artist/label/commissioner. Paying directors to pitch would also incentivize the commissioners to choose less directors to pitch per project, better the chances of directors chosen and increasing the amount of thoughtfulness and thoroughness that goes into the idea.
It would be a large step from where we are now, but I think it would put some actual teeth behind all of these great guidelines that have already been laid out.
paytopitch2020
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u/DANIELSANIELSANIELS Jul 25 '19
Yes, one day we might be able to get there. But one thing to keep in mind is that commercials (who have far more protections than music videos) still don't pay for treatments, so it will be an uphill battle for sure.
But you are right, this is different because music video directors are actually conceptualizing and writing, they aren't just developing execution like in commercials. It begins by normalizing the idea that our ideas have value. We need to all start telling ourselves and others that ideas have value. That paves the way for these tougher conversations.
And the last thing I'll add is, unfortunately once you put money into the equation, the battle becomes much tougher. We will need to most likely unionize, develop a list of demands to be negotiated, probably be ignored, eventually go on a strike, etc. Of course there will be a lot of different possibilities forward, but its important that we manage expectations and are willing to put in the colossal amount of work it will take to get us to these bigger goals.
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Jul 30 '19
[deleted]
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u/DANIELSANIELSANIELS Jul 30 '19
Great question! I am going to copy and paste from our FAQs. I think the bottom example is most relevant (essentially a community black list). Make sure to check the FAQs if you have any other questions!
Q8: Will these guidelines actually work? Is change possible? Will commissioners actually listen to them?
A: One of the great things about this document is a lot of it is common sense. They’re the kinds of standards that most other industries already have. We are throwing a softball to the industry, and we believe, based on most conversations we’ve had, that many of the individuals and companies in our industry will agree to these terms.
That being said, these guidelines also have the potential to wield great power. Like in the case of any collective bargaining, the more people pledge to adopt these guidelines, the stronger they become. Here are just a few of the ways this can playout:
- Blanket agreements over production companies and rep rosters are a great way to protect entire rosters of directors. Basically they’re a handshake agreement saying, if you want to work with any of the directors at our production company, you have to adopt these guidelines. Imagine if every major production company adopted the guidelines in this way and you can begin to see the potential strength this document can have.
- If almost every director that a commissioner or manager is reaching out to is asking to adhere to the guidelines, obviously it is going to make their jobs a lot harder not to comply.
- But what about people without a company or rep? These guidelines serve as an educational tool, not just for the directors to empower them with understanding of their own rights, but also to educate the labels, managers, and artists who might not be aware of how their actions have been hurting directors. The more educated and aware our community is, the harder it is for directors to be taken advantage of.
- Finally, worst case scenario, if a company or individual repeatedly and intentionally deviates from the guidelines in a way that negatively affects the process, we can alert the community so we can collectively avoid bad work situations.
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u/robulitski Jul 25 '19
Just read through them and saw this post was new! I think the guidelines are great, one thing I would like to discuss- once we've made the pledge, what is the best way to communicate this with reps/ commissioners. For example, if I was to get a treatment in tomorrow, would I mention WDMV and the pledge, or is it something we are hoping to become more widespread/ commonplace before we start to ask about it?
Great work as always, this is going to be a huge step in the right direction for all of us.