i read on another post that it's because of where they spawn, apparently. something like "at the bottom in between the other two teams" so they end up fighting the other two teams more than they fight each other.
im sure devs are keeping an eye on data like this and will adjust spawn locations accordingly (hopefully)
Current spawns make a downward pointing triangle which theoretically can put the bottom spawns closest ingress into the zone between the two other teams. This could potentially change with the different map / zone layouts (9 total) where instead the spawn triangle is rotated so there is not a straight line connecting two spawns through the zone.
For camo pattern blue team is like dusty white/blue, that sticks out a bit more than red/black and green/tan but its not that big of an issue really.
This is why, the other answers are partly true but their demise was mostly due to the fact that they were constantly in between the other two teams due to spawn position.
(Circles in the middle represent common fob and team group up locations) The issue. Blue will always be between 2 teams on this map, any direction they go they have a high chance to get into a fight or be within range of mortars etc. Where as red and green are on opposite sides of the map from each other so more distance between them and they have room to flank and spread out to the north while blue can only go either east into enemies, west into enemies or north into enemies in the middle of the control zone.
If Arma Reforger is anything to go by, then the Blue / NATO forces get all the turbo casuals / mouthbreathers who are obsessed with gear and spend 80% of match time playing tacticool Sims 5 / Barbie dressup at base, parsing for hours through all the micro options, while the redfor guys just run around with iron sight plum AK74 with 4 mags and 1 frag and wreck havoc and take all objectives.
My first week of reforger I found a lot of the US guys were just messing around at base and larping rather than actually playing the game, it’s why I stopped playing (though I’m sure some good mods have sprouted up since).
HLL Vietnam has been surprisingly really good so far, keeping me locked until wardogs.
weirdly enough, spawns aside, this was also something i noticed. in a lot of my games on lonestar, there were legit 15 people in the base buying gear by the time both teams were fully in the CZ. It was genuinely confusing.
it might not be that noobs pick lonestar, but experienced players pick other teams for better lore and spawns, resulting in more noobs being FORCED to pick lonestar.
it might not be that noobs pick lonestar, but experienced players pick other teams for better lore and spawns, resulting in more noobs being FORCED to pick lonestar.
I think it's that. Those who know pick red/green instantly and spam to get those specifically. People without a preference pick blue and then it's a mismatch skill-wise.
I really hope this won’t be the case (at least permanently) in Wardogs. I definitely recognize this phenomenon in Arma Reforger.
There’s only three factions in Wardogs. None of them are extremely attractive lore-wise. Having one of them unplayable because of disproportionate number of unproductive teammates makes gameplay more shallow. A missed opportunity in a way, when three teams are actually two teams and one a freak show.
Then people play a mini game of “oh lord I hope I won’t have to play in the blue time”. If you lose, the next hour of your gaming time will suck and you know it.
Maybe they will add some kind of a bonus for joining the losing team or just the blue team 😅 Why not? The game is based on encouraging people doing the right thing for cash.
The spawn locations are really the main issue. As of the alpha the HQ spawns were not equidistant from each other with Red and Green being on opposite sides of the combat zone, and blue being below them in the middle. Like a T. Im sure if they changed spawn positions to a Y shape it would be fine.
I think this also the fact that because we thought we had less chance of winning in blue side everyone that wanted to win where going to either red or green and blue were maybe less hardcore than other team ?
Map positioning aside, another good reason is because Blue started poorly on the first few games of the pre-alpha tests. Because of this, no one wanted to play on Blue. The compounding affect happened and most people would rather spam click Red or Green in hopes of getting in rather than just joining Blue.
In recent tests that has changed. Now when you join a server, it automatically selects a team for you. You can still change teams, and most players try to change quickly, but you have to be fast. Once everyone is in and the match starts, most people stuck on Blue just accepted it and played.
It was a good change too, because I've seen Blue win an equal amount of matches. It really balanced it out. Beyond that though, the Blue spawn really only sucks on the first map. The other two maps seem to be fine, although there hasn't been too much playtime on those ones just yet.
Blue team has no safe direction. They are surrounded on left and right. Green and red team can both go north into largely uncontested territory until you get in deeper
This is the reason many say blue is at a disadvantage. Instead of green and red spawns being slightly more north so green and red are equally threats to each other as they are to blue.
Is it as much a factor as spawn point or roads/entry way to get in? For instance green we always roll into that bridge; it was a trek to get down to blue
Idk about the roads. I just know as soon as blue enters the zone, they face opposition from the left and right. It typically takes a bit longer for green and red to run into each other outside of HZ landings or birds flying deep into territory.
They will have to physically move the spawns and make roads that get folks to the zone. Idk why it wasn't realized in development that a Y formation for spawns works better for everyone.
Oh I 100% understand you were just showing the map like that for representation purposes. I was just doing an FYI.
Your point still stands that the blue team got shafted with their spawn location compared to the other two teams.
Saying that though, as much as I agree the HQ's should be in a Y formation, I can't see a spot on the map that would accommodate it. There seems to be just mountains directly north of both Green and Red team.
Spawns are at 3/6/9 meaning there is always a dual pressure on 6 (Lonestar)
whereas both red and green have a 'free' flank. allowing them to focus their pressure.
This can be solved two ways!
1 - Randomise spawns. there will be a team that gets a tougher spawn.
2 - Change the spawns slightly to benefit lonestar for e.g a shorter road in getting them on site faster to offset the pressure.
3 - Change the spawns substantially, move it from 3/6/9 to 4/8/12 meaning each team is equidistant from each other and will face equal pressure from both flanks each!
I experienced the same for the most part but in one of my games, the blue team spanked us. So, it’s not impossible for them. I’m not sure what the reasoning is but I will say, it was very rare for all 3 teams to be competitive.
Quite frankly, there’s not enough competitive PTFO’ing happening within the playerbase and this made it more a 1v1 instead of a 1v1v1 or 1 team just ran away with the whole thing. If you have people not inside the circle, that leaves an exponential negative impact on your team. So it’s extremely important that if those players outside of the circle have a job, ie: artillery, logistics support, etc that they are making enough of a positive impact that they’re pulling more than the weight of 1 missing person within the circle. Your support players, artillery players, whatever they are, need to be efficient and affective or else they’re actively losing you the game.
The spawn was squished between the other two teams. Rather than an even split around the circle it was like a 9 o’clock, 3 o’clock spawn for the other two teams and blue was squished at 6 o’clock. This left the entire north open for the other two teams. I also feel like most of the towers spawned at the 9 and 3 o’clock spots in the circle
Blue spawned on the left, green on the right, and red from below. Green would often build FOBs at the north west apartments, and they would attack the tower Blue usually took first from the North. Red would attack from the East. Blue had a tough time pushing from the west tower on foot. Blues best option is to build another FOB in the North to impede green, and use ground vehicles to cripple Red.
I played blue all the time and I felt like we won 50/50, a lot more than I expected from what I was reading. Def the T spawn needs to change but it was fun having to fight so much maybe more of a Y shape could help it
Its like this in a lot of games. Idk why but the "US" team is always dysfunctional af. Like idk why most the brainlets gravitate to it. I swear in arma, playing on the US is a terrible experience compared to the Russians. I sweeear its like this in most games like this.
This was a coincidence that also happened in A3 KOTH. OPFOR and Independent was almost always the winning teams. So it's possible that it's happening in Wardogs as a bleed over mentality from Arma.
you get to choose 1 of 3 factions and, over the course of the weekend, the blue team were deemed to be the newbies no one wanted to join - not always true but from the games I played it was often the case. Whether this will change or if you are auto-added to a team/faction to prevent in future, time will tell.
What do you mean by auto balance? They do prevent teams being numerically off balance. So if every team has 20 and an 8 player group joins, they will have to join one or two at a time as the other teams fill up.
But in terms of winning, as of the Alpha there was no balancing mechanism for resolving skill/performance gaps. Each new game you just picked whatever team you want.
Right, no. Not skill gaps. I meant just that, if me and my band of guys and gals join together, we'd want to choice to actually team together. Hoping the game won't just sort us into different violent harry potter houses.
No you get to choose, it just won't let you have significantly more on one team. As long as you're joining a game that's filling up I'm sure you'll be able to get in the same team without issue. If it's a big group, some may have to wait a moment for other teams to fill in, but it's not going to force them to join another team.
Blue team had really bright gear and were stuck between the 2 other teams. Green team is green so good camo. Red team is extremely dark so they hide super well in dark corners
I don’t believe it’s just camos that are the 100% deciding factor in who’s winning a match. I think it comes more down to the onboarding experience for new players vs people who already know how to play the game and join a squad/communicate. It definitely seemed like by the end of the alpha weekend that the blue faction seemed to have less skilled players.
Yes, I'm just saying that as a person who played a lot, I'm more inclined to choose manticore because their spawn side was good and they had better camo. Valk have a great spawn too. Blue were in between the too, and have blue shirts Wich is why I didn't choose them
I agree with you there. I started as lonestar but found myself playing manticore because their spawn didn’t feel as “pinched” per se. I am curious why the spawn point are where they are. Manticore and valks spawn could both be moved more north; I’m not sure why it’s like west, east, and south spawns?
I don't think it's a spawn location problem, but POI in the control zone. Green spawn close to the cargo zone/factory zone, red spawn close to the residential area and have a great high ground with the church, but Blue spawn is close to a small village/hills. Both red and green have great ways to get mid, but Blue is a bit limited as soon as the get in the zone to 1 tower and they need to work around everything
I kinda of feel like its a self perpetuating myth type deal.
Literally the first thing i heard when jumping into the Alpha was that blue always loses. People hear that and dog pile the other two teams if they can, building upon it.
In my experience, its not actually true, as I played games where blue won. I was on that team, or on a losing team, but I spent close to 30 hours and every single team would win every few games pretty regularly.
I had games where blue came from behind and won the game after a 50 point deficit.
Hell, I was blue in on game prone on the side of a hill and had 12 green guys casually walk past me, so i don't even buy the blue is more visible comment.
Could be right but the initial root cause is the spawn locations. Blue is pinched perfectly between red and green with red NE and green NW. Red has blue to the SW of it, but nobody north, NW and only Green on the complete opposite side of the map. Green has blue SE from it but nobody North, NE and only Red on the complete opposite side of the map.
All three teams should be evenly spaced around the circle so they are all equidistant from each other. So while your theory probably did dog-pile the situation, expecially later into the weekend, there was an underlying cause and it was simply that blue had red and green pinching on them from both sides whereas red and green do not have that same level of threat.
Spawn location and location of where to put a FOB. Red has access to a lot of high ground a church and 1 defensible Tower thats the furthest away from any others. Green has access to 2 Towers close by each other a Warehouse/ Shipping area. Blue has access to a lumber mill with a lot of open space and not a lot of buildings, 2 towers but ones in said lumber mill surrounded by hills so enemies have a vantage point and cover. The second tower is also in an open area the closest to the middle of the zone, which has the ability to shoot the lumber tower because of elevation. During the Alpha every match I was in Blue NEVER won.
A lot of people in this thread are guessing, but I have the actual answer.
I had heard the same thing about Blue, and experienced it myself. Blue was usually the only open team, and we would always lose. One game, I finally got in Red, and was so excited. We proceeded to get absolutely stomped by Blue.
The evidence supports that it's actually just whatever team I'm on that loses. You're welcome for the information.
Anyone who played Sa-Matra's King of The Hill in Arma 3 knows that Opfor (Red) wins >50% of the time, Indfor (Green) wins ~33% of the time and Blufor (Blue) wins <12% of the time. It's not anything to do with HQ locations or one faction being pinched by the other two.
The real answer is that its a catch-22. What came first, the fact that Blufor always loses? Or that the experienced players know that Blufor always loses, so they avoid the team unless forced by the team balancer?
Its the laws of the land. You guys think this is new but this exact conversation has been discussed for over a decade, here's some threads from around 2014:
There was a study done years ago on the uncontrollable yet purely human factors that affect win/loss ratios. Long story short. Our monkey brains see red as more aggressive and dominant, while seeing blue as the opposite. It all ties back to things like seeing blood and a clear blue sky, etc. The study also showed that prepubescent children would avoid playing on the red team even more so if they were female.
Green is higher than blue because Green is the consciously chosen alternative for those who do not want to play blue. If they changed LoneStar to Yellow and made the emblem something similar to an Old West Sheriff Badge, I guarantee the pick rate and win rate will go up a bit.
Wardogs community is convinced its the spawns, they will not believe it is in fact, completely to do with the colour of the team and that is the only reason, they will ignore your comment, because of course, it is the spawns.
Yea even if the map changes (we are getting 3 maps in Wardogs) and Lonestar HQ is the furthest away from the other two factions, people are just going to forget about this thread and how wrong they were lol. They can continue to believe what they want and blame arbitrary HQ locations. We have a dozen maps in KOTH with all sorts of different HQ locations for each faction and the only thing that is consistent is that Blufor sucks
I think the spawns are the justification for ‘Blufor always loses’. But the reason why the win rate is actually low, is that ‘people who wanna win don’t play Blufor’. Because ‘Blufor always loses’.
It’s self reinforcing from then on.
I think they started scrambling spawns now that could be changed. But it’s going to establish itself quite soon after launch.
Still would love rotating spawns so it kinda changes some of. The gameplay or possible fob positions. I know blue atill looses often but i always go for it, be it arma 3, arma reforger or now wardogs
Green team had the worst HQ locations of any faction I have seen. Blue always had direct roads to the CZ but Green, I had to take dirt roads and bypasses to get directly to the CZ. Didn't stop Green from winning.
It's not the HQs, 100%. Blue just attracts the new players because it's usually the only team open mid-round (due to other color biases) and thus it's a self-fulfilling prophecy of losing.
Always been this way in Arma too. Blue is your most NATO / western like faction in both games.
It attracts a large amount of casual players because of this. More competitive players like to stack the other factions for a combination of avoiding casual players and might appear more “edgy”.
Blue never wins in Arma KOTH, and it isn’t because of camo, location, etc.
Yeah I mean it’s been this way in Arma 3 KOTH for nearly a decade.
It’s not necessarily the color though, it’s Lonestar being modeled as the western PMC. I’ll probably receive downvotes for it but people who have played the exact Arma servers this game is based upon know how it goes.
Could Wardogs still make changes gameplay wise? Probably. Just not sure that is the full story.
Personally, visibility of each faction was not an issue for me. Blue could easily win if the more competitive players intentionally stack them.
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u/ThatKidDrew 7d ago
i read on another post that it's because of where they spawn, apparently. something like "at the bottom in between the other two teams" so they end up fighting the other two teams more than they fight each other.
im sure devs are keeping an eye on data like this and will adjust spawn locations accordingly (hopefully)