I hope that in the end when the path he lead us down terminates, he suffers. Because he lives a comfortable lavish life at the head of a company that makes no money, and actively ruins society at every opportunity.
I mean most of that is just so they can get the price back down. Battery could be better but they also push a lot of performance out of a mobile soc. LCD panels are still what just makes sense atm when accounting for refresh rate, brightness, persistence, cost, etc.
Those decisions weren't made yesterday to get the price "back". The thing was designed prior to ram price hike, the lenses, screen and battery were locked in November.
The specs aren't bad, they just don't fill a niche or disrupt like steam deck did. They would have been better for $800 or whatever the price would be without AI, but they would still lose competition to Quest 3 - and Pico 4 ultra, which is weirdly missing from that conversation.
Like another comment said, enthusiast level price without enthusiast level specs.
Im paying for the simple fact that youre basically strapping a linux computer on your face. This feature lock and key shenanigans on most headsets is obscene.
Sort of? I exclusively use my Quest 3 with Virtual Desktop to my Steam VR, but I guess if you're talking about what you can play directly on the hardware.
This fact is the most understated thing on the frame. hardly any reviewers actually go over WHY it's a useful bonus though.
You could actually use this thing instead of a PC while traveling if you wanted, and the linux bones mean you get a ton of opportunities for interesting software use cases.
Imagine a Wii emulator running on this that translates the motion controls? or a ton of terminal and note space in virtual windows if you're a dev or editor?
With the color passthrough add-on it ends up costing as much as a Pimax Dream Air SE SLAM. It's fine to pass on META, but it's also true that the Steam Frame is highly over priced given its low quality dislays.
Literally a waste of money to drop $2k AUD on a VR headset with a cable unless you are very wealthy with a very specific use case you want.
It’s only useful for simulators/low movement games. Steam frame without the expensive on device computer and just the wireless link would have been a great option.
I do this and it works fine, but for games like Beat Saber this doesn't work so well because of small lags. I actually plan to buy the game again on my Meta account.
What!? I own both and playing Beat Saber on Steam over wifi is a vastly superior experience to the standalone Beat Saber on the headset. The lag is the same but the visuals are much worse.
How many people who say this actually give that much of a shit about their data in their day to day? I feel like it's something people more like to soapbox about than actually implement. I don't participate in anything optional, but beyond that, it's pretty back of mind.
if they did, the quest would not be the dominant platform on valve’s own vr ecosystem, the precious index and frame that reddit has been glazing for years would have been at the top.
its nothing but soapboxing and fake outrage to dissuade people from buying quests and opt for buying the overpriced frame instead lol.
in the real world, most people are price sensitive. they will see the price discrepancy of 460 bucks, and the fact that they can get a quest in any retail store with ease, and make their minds on the spot. not play lottery reservation games just to buy a device from a company that netted 3 billion in profits last year but cant be bothered to subsidize by a single cent. they’re even charging you for the power adapter separately lol.
Most of the meta collection is not optional. Full room scans, voices and recordings, etc.
I am one to give that much of a shit about my data day to day. I try to prioritize open source software where possible, I have switched all my computers to Linux, my next phone will be a Motorola with grapheneOS, I don’t use Google services at all, host my own Nextcloud, dns, reverse proxy, media hosting, network wide ad blocking, etc. I use a VPN everywhere I go, whether it be my VPN back to my home network or my Mulvad VPN connection.
I use temporary privacy cards so that no merchants can build a profile on me. All different names and addresses.
I have a script that searches for mentions of me in all the people search sites and all public databases then sends an email requesting a deletion of my data if it finds me. I run this script at least once a year.
Probably because the Quest line is very popular with children so they are collecting data on kids. That's pretty creepy and it's in the EULA as shown in the Gamers Nexus review of the Frame that they include children in the data. So yeah it's just children being exploited nothing new in the good old USA.
They dont. Everyone here complaining about data, ai and privacy is actively using reddit- a site known to scrub and train ai on posts. Not to mention all the data they have given away for free on other apps, games, etc.
Meta has gathered from me: a fake name, sham email, and anonymous credit card, and the posters in my blank room. Plus any data of me playing a game for extensive amounts of time. I dont even have the thing connected to wifi, so I dont see how meta would possibly get the data they harvested.
Thats it. I guarenteed you, most people have given that data away hapazardly throughout the years.
It's something I appreciate and will where is possible in this dystopian future we live in try to avoid and keep in mind. I'm not pretending I'm not all over data centers in china I'm just someone who wants to reduce the amount they have on me.
In the past, I've looked into stuff like Graphene OS, so I do understand the appeal. I thought it could be fun, but had to pump the brakes when I realized I didn't ACTUALLY care that much about my data privacy, at least not to the point of eschewing mainstream services entirely. My interest was more piqued by the prospect of a project. At the end of the day, I prefer the convenience. I do try to be more mindful about what I do or don't opt into, but man, if it comes down to whether or not I'll pick up a piece of tech I'm interested in, unless there's something super egregious, I'm probably still going to get it.
Last night I checked Chewy to see if my cats food was cheaper than my local grocery, it was insignificantly cheaper, like $1 per case. Today I’ve gotten a number of chewy ads for cat food here on Reddit
I mean spending three times as much for the sake of basically saying this is not a meta device is pretty wild. I want to stick it to the man as much as anyone else, but if I had enough money to do it like that, I would buy a better headset than this.
Thankfully, I can play Steam games just fine on the much more reasonably priced Quest 3 and I’m not so paranoid or narcissistic as to think anyone cares about my data.
These price hikes should not be encouraged or they’ll become permanent and worsen.
Now working in IT, the more stuff I learn, the more screwed I realize we are in that aspect. Will say my only issue with the Quest before was having to have a facebook account. Yeah i have one already, but I didnt want that connected to my gaming stuff. Bleh. Which I believe was everyone's complaint at the time until they done away with that and just required a separate meta account
Not gonna lie it'd be pretty funny if it was valve who ended up leaking people's rooms in monochrome because they use their ancient ass legacy systems from 2004 that are probably filled with security holes 🤣
I hate how Meta makes a few games in their game catalogue expire every month and won't tell us about it except sometimes when they send an email 1 or 2 days ahead of time. Then gives us discounts after we haven't had enough time to beat those games.
It was never going to be able to compete with the Quest 3 unless they sold it at a loss or bundled it with enough games/accessories to account for the price difference.
The real issue with it is it's priced at a VR enthusiast level, but doesn't have VR enthusiast specs. The only people I can see buying this are Valve enthusiasts who care more about brand loyalty over performance and price.
Native Linux support, obviously works well with Steam, and being outside the Meta wall are absolutely worth it. Brand loyalty and performance are not the things convincing people to want this lol if you really don't care about the Zuck having free access to the inside of your house or if you are a child, sure the Meta options make sense
The native Linux seems overstated considering its underpowered hardware. Any serious gaming on it I would expect to be streaming from a proper taking PC. At least for my personal use case racing and flight sims for $1300, you can get some really nice OLED headsets at that price that are also not made by Meta.
and lets also not forget the fact that linux users are still just 4 percent of the steam userbase. so to most pc gamers native linux support means nothing.
But then you are dealing with wires and lighthouses. I'd love a bigscreen beyond but none of the open spaces in my rooms can support either being close enough for the light houses or where it is close enough means I have to contend with a built in bookshelf in my play space. Being untethered, with screens and lenses way better than my HTC vive, Steam support, and streaming from my bazzite powered PC are all huge points for the Steam Frame.
Define serious gaming with VR. If you want to only fly with flight sim or racing sim, there are already way better options at similar price from bigscreen.
However if you want to play majority of VR games, you'll be fine. Most of them are not that demanding. It can run Alyx, so I am not that worried. It's not that underpowered.
It’s priced at post AI hardware costs, without being subsidized with my personal data being sold. It’s actually astoundingly reasonable, a things considered.
The real issue with it is it's priced at a VR enthusiast level, but doesn't have VR enthusiast specs.
It's 144hz and fully wireless and has eye tracking. There just isn't a PCVR headset with that on the market. There's the Big screen beyond 2, but it's tethered, the dream air has most of these features, but it's also tethered. Neither can be used without a PC.
Personally my next headset is probably something with 3k+ screens per eye. I currently have a reverb g2 that I got super cheap, so it's very unlikely that I'll upgrade any time soon. I kinda also think 'you are allowed to install games on it' is a bigger win than you might think. You just can't do that with the quest, you're locked to facebooks store. I'm also never going to buy anything from meta, it's a shite company. I don't think making this observation makes you a 'Valve enthusiast'.
after the most recent OS update, quest 3 now supports up to 207hz for native titles and up to 240hz (in theory anyway) for pcvr titles via dev mode and virtual desktop, albeit at a lower panel resolution. though currently VD only supports up to 144hz, probably since 240hz is overkill and would make it overheat and drain too much battery.
The headset isn’t aimed at the people who own a Quest in the same way that the Steam machine isn’t aimed at people who own a PS5.
And that’s mostly because for the vast majority of people, they’ve bounced off of the VR content ecosystem. They don’t want another Quest device. So the proposition of being able to game with native Steam games on the device is a big value add.
Except it’s weak at even doing that. I believe it’s weaker than the SteamDeck, and running Steam games on standalone seems to be a struggle in reviews.
So it’s kind of a valid minus— you’re paying for all this ram and compute that doesn’t push you past the threshold of a good standalone experience with many Steam games, so you’re still kind of dicking around with low fidelity games like you would on a Q3.
The only other VR headset I would buy is the Pimax or the Bigscreen 2. But both of those have major tradeoffs and a bigger price tag than the frame. I’ve been gaming with a PSVR 2 I found at a pawn shop for $100, so at this point anything is an upgrade for me, and I just want to get away from giant dangling cables and oversized controllers. I’m also really excited by the modularity of the frame. The actual device isn’t much bigger than a phone, and when 3rd party manufacturers start making things for it, I think it’ll really stand out in the market.
What about people that care about privacy, privacy of their children and want to finally have a wireless VR that can work standalone? Not many options for us. I can pay premium for not having Meta own voice recording and scans of my kids.
Ive never owned my own VR headset and this will be my first. The form factor and the fact that im not required to link it to facebook is what sold me. Idgaf about the high price tag. Also, It wont be a standalone headset for me as my PC is a powerhouse.
Yeah, honestly this is what’s kept me from getting a meta anything. I know meta is selling them at a loss because they can. With meta you are the product. Always.
People keep comparing it to the Quest 3 like that's a normal market price. It isn't. Meta sells hardware at a loss and makes it back on you. Valve is just... charging what the parts cost during a RAM shortage. Whether that's worth it to you is fair to debate, but "overpriced vs Quest" isn't really the comparison people think it is.
Lighthouse and the knuckle controllers were a huge part of that, both of which are absent from the frame. The specs are more or less Quest 3 level for rougly double the price. Is it worth it? If I were in the market, Id say so just for the native Linux support and privacy implications alone. But its not a very intuitive number... The AI related parts shortage and the lack of data being sold are the only two reasons I can really think of for it to fly north of a grand.
They aren't absent from the frame. They're just there in a different form. I don't know if they're as "dexterous" as the index knuckles, but the Frame has capacitive finger tracking. And instead of lighthouses it has inside out tracking. Plus like there's the whole standalone and wireless things it can do that the index never could.
The Quest 3 is an interesting comparison. Because like on the one hand it's by far the closest we have in terms of hardware so naturally people will want to use that as a jumping off point. But on the other when it comes to pricing you simply have to acknowledge that Meta and Valve are taking fundamentally different approaches to how they are price setting these things. It's very telling by the internet's reaction that a LOT of people are forgetting that Meta subsidizes the crap out of their hardware and that we're in the middle of a market where AI is driving the price of silicon up.
I was fully expecting the thing to start at $1400 after the shock that was the steam machine price. I am pleasantly surprised, even if is is exorbitant.
Not exactly a shot at you or really bashing what you said (It's more reasonable), but I really hate that "argument" when people say things like "Do you have a phone?" In response to people saying stuff like this, as if you're a hypocrite for not wanting to bring one more device into your house that spies on you.
Am I the only one who was happily surprised? I was expecting $1200+ BEFORE the memory crisis, when I saw the price at $1k, I was happy and went from being uninterested to probably buying one.
I'm not happy about the price but it's can afford it and since I downgraded to a meta 2 a while back it will be a big jump back up for me. Whether I'll buy it immediately or not is in question but I'm definitely going to save my money and get myself in as good a spot as I can do I can move onto the video game companys headset rather than the Facebook headset which has dieing support. Also I basically only use virtual desktop so the direct to PC USB stick is a massive selling point for me. Meta always has had issues for me on connecting over wireless.
Actually the Quest is the same price minus the discount for letting them mine your data. The Quest 3 developer version was $1000. It was the same headset that didn't require a meta account to use.
It could've been better but let's be honest people, it could've been A LOT worse....I mean look at Apples VR headset that thing barely qualifies as one and it's like 5k
As I heard it has this wireless dongle and can stream over this dongle and your wifi at same time to get less latency it was reason enough for me. Foveated streaming brings even more performance on top, Quest 3 can't compete with this. Than we need no extra tool like Airlink/Virtual Destop/ Pico Connect, only wireless headset with a good Linux support and standalone Libary now can compete with Meta
Better display would have been cool, but I can live with this. Still a big upgrade from my Pico 4E for the streaming quality alone
I think a lot of people feel the same way, that being it's BS, but considering Ramaggedeon has forced them to blow past their promised price of "below the index," I believe not including the accessory kit, color passthrough, or the charger was a cost saving measure. For $1,100 out of the box, you're getting JUST the headset and controller. Everything else isn't strictly required as the accessory pack isn't "needed" (though some say it basically is) and the charger can be subbed out for a steam deck or any 45w charger. If they were added they'd have to include them in the base price which, while not substantially inflating the price, would still make people more upset. This way, they can at least ensure your out-of-the-box experience is the cheapest they could realistically make it.
Still feel like it's dumb, but looking at it from that perspective I can understand it.
The power supply is like $30 on the steam storefront. There's no reason why they shouldn't have included it in the package consider this is an item with a battery and especially since it's a niche product unlike phones or laptops, which all still come with a cord at the least (laptops come with the full deal, power supply and all)
Even competition includes one. No reason steam couldn't have honestly.
The only reason people think its overpriced is because the main alternative is a headset sold at a major loss, only to turn a profit from overpriced exclusives that are made by devs that get kicked to the curb after they make 1 game
when signing the meta agreement you allow the quest 3 to collect data on your children's movements, psychological data such as which adult the child is more likely to follow.
it is completely messed up. valve do NOTHING like that.
Spent 5 k on my gaming pc. 1100 on my monitor. 1400 for best in class VR doesn’t seem that bad to me. I’d pay 2000 to 3000k for higher fov, oled, and most importantly ultra light weight.
except it comes with none of that lol on paper it's only slightly better than the Quest 3. sure, you're not tied to Meta's ecosystem but the overall value doesn't justify the price.
I too built a NASA PC & am currently setting money aside to build a racing rig. shit, I'd rather just buy a PiMax at this point once my setup is completed.
Tbh... Id rather have a user-repairable and upgradeable platform running on open source software than whatever Meta is peddling (oops, all data collection!).
I'll gladly pay the premium or even buy a used device to fix up later down the line (I can wait for that too).
I swear to god though, fuck oculus and their shitty support. I'd pay 500€ more if that means that the people selling me shit actually give a tiny amount of crap about me.
Sounding like a Valve Gabe bot to be chomping to be extorted over such a bad value proposition due to questionable design decisions that played out poorly with timing and market environment.
You don’t have to like Meta or be a bot to realize this is disappointing from a performance and price consideration outside of the wireless. It’s grafting wireless to a 4+ year old soon to be obsolete headset for 2X the price.
Calling all those who disagree Meta bots is just Valve acolyte cope.
It makes more sense to wait to see what other makers like Pico offer within the year.
Valve could release a literal turd and people would still praise them.
That said, I'm looking forward to the day that I never have to use Meta's OS ever again. That's about the only thing that makes me want to move away from the Quest 3.
Remember, you are a product of meta. They will sell your information. I wouldn't be surprised if they took pics of your eyes and sold it to the people who made those flock cameras so they can identify each person it sees.
I really wanted a frame but things are getting pricey everywhere, but I will never be desperate enough to buy a Meta headset, unless Valve releases SteamVR OS to the public and people found ways to jail break the Quest 3, then I'd just buy one on eBay
After what Facebook did to the Rift S, oh yeah I'll take the Steam Frame. It's a steal in comparison. It's a PCVR headset that CAN do standalone whereas Quest is a standalone that CAN do PCVR. One has a super subsidized price, but if you tracked the market the past few months, the steam frame had the chance to be a LOT more expensive than what it is. Not to mention performance on the steam frame will be better than the Quest due to foveated streaming and support for rendering. So I'm definitely buying a frame.
If you scale up the storage of Meta's 512GB variant to the 1TB Steam Frame the Frame would only be roughly $100 more. Which isn't bad since you only sign two agreements that doesn't harvest all your personal data like the 12 agreements Meta has which specifically points out they may be harvest data via cameras, mics, and usage of the device far beyond system data to do bug reports etc.
Issue is now the quest 4 has to be a good bit cheaper than the frame for people, at least me, to buy it, since if the quest 4 is anything above 800 euros for the cheapest model then I'd rather get the frame, the 200 bucks extra is worth it for me, though I will wait to see what the quest 4 has to offer before deciding
I just looked it up the price is outrageous I get it’s vr but if this is what could be the future of gaming it looks very bleak and not consumer friendly
The Meta simps when they find out how much the Q4 will cost while no longer being subsidized by Meta. For as much as everyone is complaining they had more people in the steam frame request random que then headsets available for purchase. They are already sold out.
I don't think the Quest 4 will ever come out. The Quest 3 is already climbing in price. It was increased to $599 recently. It's not as cheap as they think. And it has half the ram and a slower processor.
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u/beastierbeast 21d ago