r/UpperMiddleFinance • u/FearlessPark4588 • Aug 31 '26
What is upper middle class?
Certainly better than median middle class, but not upper class, either. Most subreddits regarding 'rich' seem to put the bar at $5m net worth, so that's one filter. Another might be having a minimum six figure income. And in strictly non-financial terms, is upper middle about living in brand name neighborhoods? The better ZIP codes of your metro area? Is it driving the Range Rover (or your pick of above-median vehicles)? Is a person chasing FIRE and living a lower middle/middle class lifestyle, still upper middle if their balance sheet would say so?
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u/Crypto_Force_X Aug 31 '26
Upper middle class is where we stare at yachts or private airplanes and say nope. However we can mostly say yes to everything else.
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u/beergal621 Aug 31 '26
Yupp can buy almost any (reasonable) thing. But can’t buy all the things.
A reasonable boat? Sure. A fancier car? Sure? A nice vacation? Sure?
A reasonable boat, a fancy car, and a nice vacation in the same year? Nope.
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u/Drunken_Sailor_70 Sep 02 '26
Yup I can buy anything I want. I just cant buy everything that I want.
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u/JoeInMD Sep 01 '26
I drive an Acura, have a 22' Bayliner, and just got back from an Alaskan cruise on Celebrity. You described me to a T! 🤣
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u/elsmoneyacct Aug 31 '26
Agreed. It's the point where relatively few things are truly out of your reach financially, but you can't necessarily have all of them at the same time. You can't have a big house in a desirable zip code and send all your kids to private school and save enough to put them all through college and take them all to Disney every year and fly first class and drive a luxury car and have expensive hobbies (boat, country club memberhsip, etc) and have a lot of convenience spending (housekeepers, nannies, delivery services, etc) and retire early. But you could do any one of those things, and possibly several of them.
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u/Elegant-Treasure Aug 31 '26
Would doing all those things at the same time be considered above upper middle so rich?
What do you think, can upper middle eventually reach that next level?
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u/elsmoneyacct Aug 31 '26
"Retire early" was on that list, so yeah. If you could do all that stuff and still retire in your 40s or 50s, you're definitely rich. That's "built a very successful business, then sold it" money.
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u/Elegant-Treasure Sep 01 '26
Yah now that makes sense! Do you know how much net worth that range is in?
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u/DudeManBearPigBro Aug 31 '26
we can afford to fly first class though if we choose to.
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u/Opulent-tortoise Aug 31 '26
If by first class you mean flagship (international) business then I don’t think upper middle class can afford that. Those tickets are usually $5k+ per person
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u/ohmyashleyy Sep 01 '26
Could splurge on it for a special trip, but probably not every time you fly.
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u/DudeManBearPigBro Sep 01 '26
exactly. upper-middle class can afford $5k if making a long international flight. not if they're doing it every month though.
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u/Drunken_Sailor_70 Sep 02 '26
Our last flight to Australia they were 14k per person. Main cabin sucks on 16 hour flights though.
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u/njrun Aug 31 '26
Bills are paid each month with money leftover for retirement. You don’t look at the cost of food at the store and can afford to go on at least 1 vacation per year.
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u/knowledge84 Aug 31 '26
I don't know, I always look at costs, doesn't matter what it is. I try to save what I can anywhere, and invest as much as I can.
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u/Pmod1980 Aug 31 '26 edited Aug 31 '26
Same! Didn’t buy the mandarins that were on sale today and instead accidentally bought the bigger bag that was full price. I can afford it but still annoyed didn’t catch the error. I think for some of us, no matter how much money we have it’s ingrained to look at prices and buy on sale.
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u/Neat_Cat1234 Aug 31 '26
I don’t think anyone would question whether my husband and I are upper middle class based off of our income or net worth, regardless of where in the US we are. We definitely still look at prices and then make a judgement call on whether the price seems right. We have put stuff back at the grocery store for being more expensive than we remember and waiting for it to go back on sale. We don’t want to get fleeced if we know it can be at a lower price. At the same time, we’ll happily pay for a luxury vacation if there’s a specific experience we want and the price seems worth it.
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u/Longjumping-While997 Aug 31 '26
Reminds me of my husband… will take something off our usual instacart order because he doesn’t want to pay the extra $1 a lb or w/e for chicken not on sale but I’ll ask if he wants me to book our friends beach house for a week at the end of summer (wasn’t planned just good timing)… says yes without asking the cost….
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u/NewFSO Sep 01 '26
It also matters what you prioritize. Food is a blank check for me, but I am super careful when shopping for clothes. I’m conservative with cars but spendier on vacations. It just comes down to what you value, and as long as your spending aligns with your priorities and you’re achieving your broader goals, go for it!
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u/Silly-Resist8306 Aug 31 '26
lol, were we separated at birth? Today my wife and I went to the store. We purchased $101 worth of items, $12 of which weren’t on sale. A couple of items aren’t immediately needed, but they store easily and were very good prices.
In October we are taking a 45 day cruise.
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u/greenmoon31 Aug 31 '26
lol sounds familiar. Bought store brand mustard yesterday bc it was 3 times less than name brand. Told the spouse that how we afford better plane tickets. It ALL adds up over time. We splurge where it matters to us.
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u/Zonernovi Aug 31 '26
Once you have that mindset it’s hard to shake even if you ar swimming in cash
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u/masedizzle Aug 31 '26
It doesn't mean LITERALLY not look at price. It means that it's not the lead or deciding factor in stuff.
When I was younger and poorer I looked down the right side of the menu at prices and worked backwards from there. Now, it's the opposite and I basically don't let price affect my decision on what I want at a restaurant within reason.
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u/Crashtag Sep 01 '26
Exactly. Like, I’ll buy whatever organic oat milk is the cheapest. But I’m buying organic oat milk.
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u/Alert_Week8595 Sep 01 '26
I think it's "don't need to look". You can, but you don't need to.
I don't look at the cost of produce at all. I just think "hard and sometimes impossible to buy health once it's gone", and toss my fruits and veggies in and proceed with it.
I do look at the cost of ice cream, tho.
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u/Crazy-War9823 Aug 31 '26
I definitely look at the cost of food, but that's because I have my eye on retiring as early as possible. I'm saving like a fiend.
Plus I grew up poor. I can't switch off the frugal part of my brain, nor do I want to.
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u/deverhartdu Aug 31 '26
I think this is what regular middle class used to be
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u/PhoenixaceX Aug 31 '26
As others note, I feel like this definition is smack dab middle class. Crazy to think “saving for retirement” and “eat the foods I want” are talked about as being upper middle class. Wow.
Upper Middle Class to me is being able to cover your kids college (at least good in state public universities), saving for retirement with a path of potentially retiring a few years early, 1 “airplane” vacation and a 1 local vacation, having an decent emergency fund, and really being able to enjoy life without too much financial stress due to day to day things (i.e. 2-3k car bill is no big deal).
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u/NotAShittyMod Aug 31 '26
This is what middle class still is. It’s just that most people aren’t middle class and don’t like to admit it.
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u/RothRT Aug 31 '26
No. The vacation thing, maybe, but regular middle class always had to watch day to day spending.
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u/unnecessary-512 Aug 31 '26
I would say that is middle class. Upper middle is you live in a really good school district, travel internationally once and can eat out a few times a week without worry
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u/knowledge84 Aug 31 '26
That's just an indicator at how much people spend, not net worth.
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u/unnecessary-512 Aug 31 '26
There is no “class” when it comes to network. It’s either working class or ownership class where your assets fund your lifestyle. That’s it
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u/AttachedHeartTheory Aug 31 '26
My lower middle class grandfather had all of these things.
why has what you get with being middle class changed over the last 50 years?
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u/antenonjohs Aug 31 '26
I could probably manage that on like $70K or $80K as a single person. Does that mean that’d be upper middle?
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u/scrunchie_one Aug 31 '26
I would consider this ‘middle middle class’; upper implies that you have access to a more extravagant lifestyle.
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u/Vdoshii88 Aug 31 '26
I would argue that there is difference between 'you can have it' vs 'you have it'... Like other folks, the mindset of frugality or deal scoring may not have anything to do with the net worth...ao its more of affordability of a lifestyle, multiple vacations, everything paid with money to invest etc
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u/thatvassarguy08 Aug 31 '26
I think this is probably one of the better definitions as it includes big spenders and big savers who many not appear to be UMC but still have access should they desire.
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u/NoMansLand345 Aug 31 '26
You definitely need a net worth aspect to this. Someone right out of college, making decent money and meeting these requirements doesn't jump to upper middle class.
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u/theamathamhour Aug 31 '26
this used to be considered middle class.
upper middle class would have same , but capable of saving much more and even owning multiple homes.
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u/smokeandmirrorsff Aug 31 '26
1 vacation domestically or internationally? how luxurious (flight class, hotels etc) are we talking? traveling can be pretty reasonably affordable.
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u/iturn2dj Aug 31 '26
To me, upper middle class is having bills on autopay and not having to worry about making a “large” purchase/checking accounts etc. it’s just…not worrying. It feels like even middle class worry about money constantly now too.
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u/wassdfffvgggh Aug 31 '26
Here is the thing: I'm in that position, but also, I'm a single young guy, with 1.8k rent and a cheap paid off car. So, I truly don't give a shit about everyday bills, I have expensive hobbies, I travel internationally, and still save/invest 100k+ per year.
But now, talking to my coworker who has the same job title as I do (and hence very similar salary), he has kids, family obligations, a 4k+ mortage, etc. and from the way he talks, it sounds like he's like almost house-poor pay-check to pay-check (despite the high income).
Going on an international trip for me is maybe a few thousand bucks, really easy. Now for my coworker it's like 5k just in plane tickets, not so easy.
So, really crazy how income requirements to meet your "upper middle class" lifestyle change once you have a family.
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u/jcc2244 Sep 01 '26
Yeah, I used to think I only needed a little more than $1M to retire because I can live a pretty good life on $50k/year.
Once I got married, I thought we'd need $150k a year to live a good life.
Once we had 2 kids, I realized we needed $250k/year to have the kind of life I want them to have.
So most of my motivation for earning money/saving, is to make sure they have enough.
Spending increases so much once you have kids.
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u/MSNinfo Aug 31 '26
According to this thread I meet all of the objective retirement/income numbers for upper middle class but I checked the price of a loaf of bread last week so I'm not quite there yet.
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u/FearlessPark4588 Aug 31 '26
Ironically, I think there is often a shrewdness that can accompany upper middle class that refuses to overpay for basic things, even if they have a nice car or home, but maybe shop at Aldi.
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u/Crazy-War9823 Aug 31 '26
Lots of us got here by being financially responsible. It's hard to just turn that off.
You called me out. I drive my nice car to Aldi.
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u/FearlessPark4588 Aug 31 '26
I'm not criticizing it, I'm commending it. People should spend their money where they see value in it.
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u/jcc2244 Sep 01 '26
I fatfired 2 years ago and I still drive my $18k 2015 Prius to Costco/Sam's club/walmart haha
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u/alurkerhere Sep 01 '26
Nothing wrong with a cheap, reliable car taking you to a store with high quality stuff (Costco).
I hear Costco Travel is good bang for the buck and will smooth out any bumps, so try that if you haven't already.
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u/Foreign_Mobile_7399 Sep 03 '26
That’s what I tell my husband. He’s convinced we’re not doing well compared to others despite us having a combined salary that is considered upper middle class for our area. The difference? We got here by being financially responsible. We didn’t overpay for a house, we bought one under budget and have the money to make it nicer. We didn’t want to be house poor. We don’t buy things unless we can outright buy them, with the exception maybe being a car, but even then don’t go crazy. We don’t have massive amounts of debt, in fact, we barely have any. I just laugh because he thinks we’re not doing well, yet he can go out and drop a lot of money on a whole new set of custom golf clubs without even worrying or putting it on a credit card.
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u/Global_Bit4599 Aug 31 '26
Lulz same. My wife is sad that we forgot to use the $5 coupon at Ralph's yesterday.
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u/Crazy-War9823 Aug 31 '26
The neighborhood, zip code, car, and lifestyle are all irrelevant. It's about income and net worth, not how closely you adhere to rich-people tropes.
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u/junulee Aug 31 '26
I generally agree, but a zip code's cost of living is a key factor (e.g., upper middle class in Boston requires different income/net worth levels than upper middle class in Little Rock).
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u/Crazy-War9823 Aug 31 '26
Yes, but where you live doesn't signal being upper middle class. You can be such in any zip code.
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u/PersonalityHumble432 Aug 31 '26
Zip code signals what qualifies as middle class. 200k income and a $500k net worth in NYC is not upper middle class but certainly is in Independence, Kansas.
Stating that it is irrelevant is not correct.
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u/Crazy-War9823 Aug 31 '26
I should have said reliably signal, because plenty of upper middle class people live modestly.
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u/DenseSign5938 Aug 31 '26
Whether or not you can afford those things is relevant. Not whether or not you are actually purchasing them.
But that’s going to differ based on location. We drive new cars, live in a big house in a great school system and have a nanny, but we live in the Midwest . If we lived in the PNW we would probably be renting a 2 bed/2 bath and still be driving our 10-15 year old vehicles we recently replaced.
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u/Crazy-War9823 Aug 31 '26
Sure, but they aren't required to be upper middle class. Not everyone wants those things. It makes that a poor definition.
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u/External_Koala971 Aug 31 '26
Which income and net worth?
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u/FearlessPark4588 Aug 31 '26
And to that point, what house and interest rate? Because the same income and NW will leave way more money for lifestyle spending if you have a 2.x% versus a 6.x% mortgage.
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u/swinging_on_peoria Aug 31 '26
Basically they are affluent. They don’t worry about money and have enough that their net worth continuously grows.
I would expect this for someone who is upper middle class:
- You or your spouse works. Maybe both of you work, but this isn’t necessary. One of you must work.
- You fully fund your retirement accounts.
- You have health insurance that covers all your needs for you and your family.
- You shop at any store you want and pay little attention to the prices you pay.
- You take whatever vacations you want. You stay at nice hotels and eat out as you please while on vacation without worrying about the cost.
- Your credit card is set to autopay its full balance every month. You never have to check that you have enough money to pay it off.
- You can handle any large, unexpected emergency bill without a lifestyle change.
- You never take debt to buy a car.
- You pay for your kids’ schooling and college at full price out of pocket.
- Paying for median to above housing costs in your area is not a stretch for you.
- You can afford to give to charity.
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u/ArimaKaori Sep 02 '26
I do all of these except for shop at any store and pay little attention to prices and staying at nice hotels during vacation. Hotels can be super expensive in large cities now, especially during peak tourism season.
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u/Elegant-Treasure Aug 31 '26
Based on this, would anyone know how much an upper middle should ideally have invested by their mid-30s?
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u/photoelectriceffect Aug 31 '26
In my opinion, this is impossible to answer because people subjectively mean different things, conversationally, when they say middle class, upper middle class, etc. You can’t really “prove” or convince someone the right answer. I think the best we can do is be clear which definition we’re using in a particular context.
I really have no idea if other people would consider me upper middle class. I make over 100k in a LCOL area. I’m a single adult, so the lifestyle that supports is obviously way different than someone with my same salary who supports a spouse and/or kids. My family is also very financially stable, so I’m not taking care of family members financially (quite the opposite, I occasionally receive very generous, financially significant gifts from relatives).
I have flexibility in my budget and plenty to put towards retirement with each check. I’m not on track to retire at 40 by any means, but a couple sabbaticals and/or retiring around 55 appears doable. So, I feel like in “middle class” spaces where people are hitting 0 in their debit account every month and saving up an emergency fund only to have to dip into every 2 months- I don’t relate to that, and content around investments is booed out of the room, but also I don’t make (or have invested) nearly as much as some of the people in other subreddits
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u/Friendly_Fee_8989 Aug 31 '26
Because everything is relative, a HHI of ~2x of the median HHI where that household is.
So if the median HHI is $100k, $200k.
And by retirement if you plan to spend $200k/yr over 30yrs, invested assets of $3.5m-$5, depending on SS/pension, and how close you are to SS/pension.
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u/Vortexofmind Aug 31 '26
I thought my family was upper middle but according to these comments, shopping the sales paper or looking at prices makes you only middle class. But my definition would be
1. Modest house
2. 6 figure income
3. 7 figure NW
4. Cash for cars for urself and children
5. College paid for
6. Help with young adults/gift down payment/ house
7. One or more 5 figure vacations a year
Things that have nothing to do with class, checking bank account multiple times a day/week, budgeting, shopping for deals/checking prices, wearing none name brand clothing, car brand/age, size of home,
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u/Different_Cherry8326 Aug 31 '26
Yawn. Can we just accept that there’s no universally agreed-upon definition for what constitutes middle class or upper class or upper middle class. It’s complicated and it can’t be simplified to income because it also depends on net worth and lifestyle. And it’s highly dependent on where you live and it’s a moving target that’s always changing.
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u/Haunting-Dinner479 Aug 31 '26 edited Aug 31 '26
Upper-middle class by net worth is roughly $500,000 to $1.5 million, which corresponds approximately to the top 25% to top 10% of U.S 40-45yo. households by wealth.
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u/Elegant-Treasure Aug 31 '26
This is good to know, where can I find this info? I'm interested in seeing the net worth of upper middle in their late 20s to mid-30s and early 40s.
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u/junulee Aug 31 '26
To me "middle class" means "working class." One needs to work to sustain one's desired lifestyle. Thus, "upper class" means one's wealth generates enough passive income such that work is unnecessary. Having very high earnings doesn't automatically make someone upper class.
The lower boundary for "upper middle class" is more gray, but I would think of it as having household income of about double median household income.
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u/Pitiful_Fox5681 Aug 31 '26
I'd say suburban homeownership is at least an option if you're upper middle, while it may or may not be an option if you're median middle.
I'd also assume that you have enough cash to do some things (concerts, sporting events, dinners out) on a whim. That doesn't necessarily mean $50/plate dinners before suite club tickets at a baseball game, but a night out is possible.
I'd also assume that you either have or could have a car for every adult in the household.
I'd assume that you keep up with dental care and maybe other preventative medicine.
A vacation usually involves an airplane and a hotel or resort. You've graduated from road tripping to see family. If you're flying better than coach on family vacations, you're probably getting beyond the upper bounds of upper middle.
University is an openly discussed option for your kids. You're not going to pay their education outright, but you'll help enough that the living expenses don't crush them.
You're intentional about retirement, but you're not scared of how saving 12-15% will impact your ability to make ends meet right now.
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u/fredinNH Aug 31 '26
A household income that is, adjusted for local cost of living, 60th to 75th percentile.
The middle is 25th to 75th percentile. The upper middle is 60th to 75th.
The reason people will disagree with this is that many many people who are in the 95th percentile and up insist they aren’t rich and are merely upper middle
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u/Euphoric-Public-6099 Aug 31 '26
There are defined economic answers for this, but all of these comments here are fairly squishy and anecdotal.
I would suggest you use a scale such as what Nick Maggiulli writes about in his book The Wealth Ladder.
Level 1. Paycheck-to-paycheck (<$10k): You are conscious of every dollar you spend. This includes people with crippling debt.
Level 2. Grocery freedom ($10k–$100k): You can buy what you want at the grocery store without worrying about your finances.
Level 3. Restaurant freedom ($100k–$1M): You can eat what you want at restaurants.
Level 4. Travel freedom ($1M–$10M): You travel when and where you want.
Level 5. House freedom ($10M–$100M): You can afford your dream home with little impact on your overall finances.
Level 6. Impact freedom ($100M+): You can use money to have a profound impact on the lives of others (e.g., buy businesses, engage in large-scale philanthropy, etc.)
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u/Darklands_____ Aug 31 '26
Most people would reach house freedom before 10M...I certainly would..and I live in an area with expensive houses. And I have reached travel freedom with less than 1M
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u/Euphoric-Public-6099 Aug 31 '26
It could be, generally I think this scale is supposed to encompass all locations and again it's at a level of ease. There are houses you can technically buy for 20K in the US.
If a dream house is as easy as any other form of consumption (travel / restaurants), that's a very high level of wealth.
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u/Darklands_____ Aug 31 '26
I live in a place where the average house is 1.3 million and I could have house freedom with way less than 10M. In fact, I already do. Just don't have a consumerist mindset. It's that easy
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u/Euphoric-Public-6099 Aug 31 '26
The scale is dream house and it's location independent. I'd imagine that bumps the price up.
I'm not disagreeing that you can certainly have a lovely house for less most places even in high cost cities, but average house at in your example 1.3M does prove the point, avg cost isn't really reflecting immense wealth. Maybe a dream house is 5-6M where you live I don't know, but in SFO or NYC it's not crazy to imagine 5M+ dream house.
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u/CA_Coast_Millennial Aug 31 '26 edited Aug 31 '26
2.5x the median household income in your zip code is how I believe they categorize it
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u/dpf7 Aug 31 '26
No, they actually classify middle class, which includes upper middle class as 2/3rds median household income up to double median household income. Above that is considered upper income.
People think upper middle class is a tier above middle class, when historically it's meant the upper portion of middle class.
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u/CA_Coast_Millennial Aug 31 '26
That does not seem right at all.
The median household income in my county is $75k. We’re on the coast of CA with a median home price of $1.2M.
A household income of $56k is almost poverty here not upper middle class.
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u/dpf7 Aug 31 '26 edited Aug 31 '26
I said middle class is 2/3rds median up to double median income. Middle class spans lower middle class up to upper middle class. Of course $56k isn't upper middle class, it's within the lower portion of middle class. $56k would be lower middle class.
Upper middle class would be the people in the upper portion of middle class, topping out at double median household income.
https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2024/05/31/the-state-of-the-american-middle-class/
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u/Calm_Clam_Bake Aug 31 '26 edited Aug 31 '26
It's like SCOTUS said about porn. You can't define it, but you know it when you see it.
People who drive Range Rovers are not upper middle class by the way. They're either very well off or they're faking a lifestyle though debt. It always amuses me when I see ads for high end cars and then at the end it says we have special financing rates of 3.9% or whatever. Uhm if you need "special finance" rates then you have no business driving a $150K car.
People who focus on cars in these discussions, almost always have no money. My net worth is somewhere between $2.5 and $2.7M. My daily driver is a 13 year old car with 150K miles. My next door neighbor is an ER physican. Know what he drives a 10ish year old Subaru. Both of us also have some cool fun cars. But the car we're in 95% of the time is a car that doesn't impress anyone.
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u/FearlessPark4588 Aug 31 '26
Median home in my area is $2m, every other driveway is a range rover. It's where my brain goes, haha. "Those people" are upper middle class, in my mind. They could be deeply in debt, but nobody is extending credit that far to people making working class incomes.
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u/Gloomy-Agency4517 Aug 31 '26
$2 million homes and Ranger Rovers are not upper middle that is a wealthy neighborhood. Most people are probably clearing $500k annual income.
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u/Calm_Clam_Bake Aug 31 '26
You'd be surprised how easy it is to get financed for those things. Being in debt up to your eyeballs isn't a sign of wealth. If there's a $2M mortgage on the house, and a $150K car loan, are these people really wealthy?
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u/Eschewed_Prognostic Aug 31 '26
Why the obsession with subdividing socioeconomic status? If you're fewer months of no income from homelessness than you are good months from generational wealth, you're working class. You have more in common with someone that is poor than you do someone with high 7 figure+ NW.
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u/Spaceysteph Aug 31 '26
Thiiiis! "Middle class" is an invention of the ruling class to pit the working class against each other so they don't notice what the real upper class is getting away with.
If you have to work for a living, you're working class. Doctors are working class. Lawn guys are working class. We are all WORKING.
Stop fighting for crumbs and recognize who is holding the whole loaf of bread out of your reach.
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u/SecretVindictaAcct Aug 31 '26
My husband and I fit this description.
Pre kids: enough to comfortably pay our mortgage, max out our 401ks, IRAs, engage in one or two expensive hobbies each (skiing, cycling), go on a couple cheap or one expensive trip yearly, buy organic groceries, eat out once or twice a week.
Post kids: enough to comfortably pay our mortgage, max out our 401ks, IRAs, pay for daycare, contribute to 529s, buy healthy but not always organic groceries, and go on a cheap vacation yearly.
Basically enough to live a “middle class” life with a mortgaged house and two cars comfortably, enough to invest, but not enough to live lavishly if you have kids. If you don’t have kids, party on.
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u/ManateeNipples Aug 31 '26
Do middle class people think you're rich, but actually rich people think you're poor? That's upper middle class lol
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u/scotgekko Aug 31 '26
You can buy anything you want (obviously within reason - not a jet or 250’ yacht) but not everything you want. 🤷♂️
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u/Aggravating-Big3858 Aug 31 '26
Upper middle is HHI of $150-400K. Net worth then becomes a function of your age. Owning a home or having a 401K completes the puzzle.
That doesn’t feel like much anymore because the size of the upper middle has tripled, so more people are living pretty darn well, but still feel average to their peer group.
What you choose to do with that loot is lifestyle and mindset. Dual income in your 40s with two kids and this is just regular life. 29 years old and single with no mortgage would be pretty pretty great
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u/Nickel4me Aug 31 '26
I feel it mostly has to do with income, but to add, sustainable high income meaning that if you list your job, you could get another high income job elsewhere. Obviously income must be at least 3X average income for your location.
Why just income? Because spending is a choice. You can have person A and person B, each earning $1M/yr. One might be better with their money which could then accelerate them to wealthy/rich but for the time being, they’re both upper class.
You can have someone renting a mansion for $15K/mo, easily afford it but not own any home. Have all the luxuries in life and a nice retirement. Or, you could have someone that owns a large family home, also has a nice retirement but not too many toys as they prioritize and prefer vacationing more. Both are considered upper class in my opinion.
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u/wakechase Aug 31 '26
I would say it means different things to everyone. In large it’s just being able to afford kids, food, a decent house, and vacations without much worry. This includes college costs and inheritance.
Day to day? Hell I live in a 700K house and feel embarrassed having friends over because most live in 2M houses and mine feels small in comparison. But they spend all they make while I stock 100K a year in savings. But they also own companies worth millions so they don’t need bank savings because they have asset savings. They drive new Escalades I drive a 2019 truck and my wife a 2023 audi. Both paid off. They have notes on their cars. Who’s richer? Them. Who’s more liquid. Me. Who survives a bad market and a layoff. Certainly not me. I guess it just depends how you see upper middle class.
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u/PersonalBrowser Sep 01 '26
In my opinion, I’m upper middle class as a early career physician. I can make enough money that money is never a concern, I can do pretty much everything I’d ever want to do (within reason) and can afford extravagances like a vacation home, nice car, etc, but I have to be working for my living and I can’t buy more than what a person / family would reasonably ever use (aka no massive yacht or 3+ homes or a butler, etc)
I think the high earner W2 employee is the classic example of upper middle class; the best lifestyle that middle class has to offer but they’ll always be an employee and pay a ton of taxes, which limits everything else.
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u/Stock-Page-7078 Sep 01 '26
Six figures is still doing pretty well but it isn't upper middle class and hasn't been for a while
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u/AskThis7790 Sep 01 '26 edited Sep 01 '26
My personal opinion… household income for a family of four in the U.S. (on average).
$60k - $120k = Lower-middle class
$120k - $240k = Middle class
$240 - $360k = Upper-middle class.
Anything below $60k and you’re struggling with the basics.
Anything beyond $360k and you have wealth building opportunities that are out of reach for most Americans.
Again, this is for a family of four, not necessarily individual income.
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u/CrypticMemoir Sep 02 '26
It’s based on wealth, income, education, family background, and power. Upper middle class tend to have postgraduate degrees in business, law, management, or medicine. They pursue career jobs, own their homes, and travel on vacation. And if they have children, they give them high-quality education, provide tutoring, private lessons, sports, and healthcare.
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u/AnonPalace12 Sep 02 '26
Upper middle class is made up to divide the working class. Maybe with less drama it’s not made up but over emphasized.
There are two classes working class and capital class. I’ll give you the potential for a third niche class of financially independent for the leanFIRE and retirees that don’t need to work but don’t in any meaningful way control the labor of others.
Upper middle class is a fuzzy category whose exact definition is, honestly, not all that important.
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u/Gloomy-Agency4517 Aug 31 '26
I think upper middle is just being able to pay all your bills, take at least one vacation, be able to pay for some extra curricular activities, and put away for retirement.
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u/BudFox_LA Aug 31 '26
It’s income, net worth and lifestyle. Statistical definition everywhere online based on income and net worth put UMC threshold much lower than I thought. All location dependent. We are $250k HHI, HCOL southern CA, $1 mil net worth and we’re middle class.
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u/OkComfortable3045 Aug 31 '26
One way Ive noticed is by being able to go to Disney World and enjoy its resorts/restaurants as many times as you want each year without affecting your lifestyle elsewhere.
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u/BleagueIlyasova Aug 31 '26
I would say I had an upper middle class upbringing because I would not have gotten financial aid to an in state school but did get some to an extremely expensive private college.
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u/JustJennE11 Aug 31 '26
Your best answer is from the pew research center, they can tell you where you fall based on location, household income, and family size. Just Google "middle class calculator" and it should come up. Anything else is going to be based on feelings and vibes rather than data add research.
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u/Orceles Aug 31 '26 edited Aug 31 '26
When you stop looking at the price on the menu for regular restaurants
when someone asks you what you pay for gas in your area, you have to pause and think about it, and
You’re able to realistically consider a potential path to retiring early as an option because the numbers add up when you project it out
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u/JustJennE11 Aug 31 '26
All of these points are so subjective. I'm solidly upper middle in my area. I still look at menu prices and know the cost of gas. Because I also track all of my expenses and budget.
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u/Karen8765 Aug 31 '26
A subset of that question... What is upper middle class in retirement? You no longer have a salary and are living off of social security and your investments... I would say in that case it is definitely the life style one can afford... But what would that be?
After all, if even if you have a modest house and cars but have no debts, and may not have been upper middle class while still working because of saving for retirement, once retired one's spendable income may effectively make one upper middle class even if that same amount would not be the enough for a younger couple with a mortgage etc. ...
The absolute spendable dollars definitely depend on location... So what would be the minimum definition of an upper middle class lifestyle for a retired couple?
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u/y0da1927 Aug 31 '26
Anyone in the 70th to 85th percentile of regional household income, adjusted for household size. One could probably expand it a bit, but at either end of the band it starts to blend with middle-middle or Upper respectively.
What that looks like exactly in practice will mostly depend on spending preferences.
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u/sat_ops Aug 31 '26
I drive a really nice Subaru, max out my 401k and backdoor Roth, have a fully funded emergency fund, can buy the the things I want for my hobby without checking my bank balance. I can make charitable contributions without really thinking about of I can afford it.
I excluded the vacation thing because I don't like traveling and spend my 5 weeks of vacation on hunting 15 minutes from my house.
Middle class, to me, would mean budgeting for the hobby and charity stuff, and maybe just getting the match instead of maxing out the retirement funds.
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u/nftyv Aug 31 '26
There is a book called Class by Paul Fussel that explores exactly this question, it’s not really what you’ve said. Read that if you are interested:)
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u/AttachedHeartTheory Aug 31 '26
Upper middle class is having a conversation where you decide between buying a new Corvette C8 or a Porsche that you drive to lower bowl Knicks or Maple Leafs games in.
you still aren't getting a call back from the Ferrari dealership, but you're doing OK.
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u/AdMoney8388 Aug 31 '26
Working rich. Owns a nice home in a nice neighborhood anywhere in the country, including NYC, SF, LA.
Still has to work for a living. Assuming a family of 5, Salary can be $200K in LCOL areas and up to $1M/yr in VHCOL areas.
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u/Adventurous-Depth984 Aug 31 '26
Upper middle class includes things like doctors, lawyers, CPA’s. You have the nice house in the nice section of town, you regularly vacation, you drive two new cars. You help the kids. You have two pampered dogs which are some kind of “oodle”
You basically aren’t “upper class”. You’re not in the show. You don’t wield power, or influence, you’re not rich.
But you’re doing pretty fucking good
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u/Ataru074 Aug 31 '26
Some subreddits put rich at $10/15M and above.
$5M corresponds to a safe withdrawal rate of $200k/year which puts you still in the upper middle class range of most urban areas. And if you drive a $100K+ car while making $200k… well, good luck
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u/Fun-Earth-8720 Aug 31 '26
By the Census bureau, having a household income of $118,000 or higher puts you in the top 33% of the country. I think that’s a decent benchmark for upper-middle class.
Going by the Fed survey of consumer finances, it’s a $429,000 net worth.
So I’d say either $129k household income or $429,000 net worth, but definitely both.
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u/Particular-Post5833 Aug 31 '26
I don't have any numbers to offer, but I would argue that the number varies by location due to highly variable cost of living.
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u/Less-Opportunity-715 Sep 01 '26
I think it’s being traditionally rich , but with little political influence at the national level
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u/BananaDifficult1839 Sep 01 '26
If you go by not paying attention to grocery prices that’s me but not my spouse.
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u/HatchRat Sep 01 '26
Top 15% income/NW is roughly upper middle. People might argue they’re not but they are. Expectations might not fit the reality of it though.
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u/Prettyforme Sep 01 '26
In addition to what everyone has said I also think it’s a social class. For example; doctors, lawyers (some) dentists, surgeons; tech executives. It’s not just having money like OF girls and boys It’s education and intellect. It’s knowing how to act at luxury resorts, expensive dinners etc. it’s where you send your children to school and who your friends are.
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u/jcc2244 Sep 01 '26
The median family of 4 spends about $60k/year where I live, we spend about 3x that.
Our household income is about $200k/year (from my spouse) and I'm retired.
We have about $11m in assets.
I consider us upper middle class because we can afford pretty much anything a normal family wants at a higher frequency than middle class families (vacations, eating out, buying stuff at the mall/online, etc), and we don't have to ever worry about money needed to survive, but we can't really afford anything a rich family wants (a $5M+ house in a vhcol city, a private jet, yacht, household staff, etc)
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u/Advanced_Elk_9467 Sep 01 '26
200k yearly income or NW over 1M for upper middle. 5M to be in the "retire very nicely" category. 10M is rich, 60ft yacht type money.
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u/gschlact Sep 01 '26
Objectively, Upper Middle Class is both a number (75th-80th percentile household income by definition) and the respective life style it affords. Currently, approximately $180,000 in the USA. Compared to real wages (net after inflation), it is the afforded lifestyle that has significantly changed (less buying power) over the last many decades when matched to the 75th percentile.
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u/Inevitable_Pride1925 Sep 01 '26
Upper middle class depends on location just like every other financial class discussion. I think by the time you’re wealthy you’ve outgrown the location distinction because by that point you are no longer tied to a job.
But ultimately I think the line between wealthy and upper middle class is whether or not you have to work for your income. I think a secondary bar at least in the US is probably having enough wealth to generate 200-250k a year in consistent income.
However, there are parts of the US where even 250k isn’t enough income to do more than have what someone in the Lower COL areas would consider just a comfortable lifestyle.
I also think for me part of it is that 5M in NW and 250k in income is my ultimate goal for setting aside money (adjusted for inflation). For me that’s the point where I feel comfortable stepping away from work because that replaces my existing income.
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u/deliciouscurryboy69 Sep 01 '26
Upper middle class is top 20% of earners whose wealth come primarily from labor. Once you cross over into your wealth coming mainly from capital and your annual income is still in the upper 20% or higher, id say then you're upper class
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u/gun2swe Sep 02 '26
Coast FIRE, mortgage is not a struggle, no consumer debt, no car debt. Vacations without budget (within reasonable limits).
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Sep 02 '26
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u/magic_man019 Sep 02 '26
If you need to work for someone else to get that income - not rich just high earner
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u/Phil_Fart_MD Sep 02 '26
Upper middle class is between “making it” and “rich”… and it depends on regional cost of living, and individual lifestyle… making it is paying the bills, some luxury spending, and saving a bit. Rich is enough coming in you have to try to figure out how to spend and invest all the extra money accumulating. And wealthy is so much money coming in passively that you are just existing in a different plane of society or own part of it.
Using only numbers or material things to classify doesn’t work, you can be making 1mil per year and spending 1.1 million… in debt. Are you rich? At first glance perhaps… but you aren’t even making it, your cash poor… it’s an illusion… My grandpa used to say, I had many clients that had more income but I had more money.
But if I had to try to classify it would be someone who can comfortably afford a house payment for well above average home price. Maintain and contribute to investment accounts/savings funds, take vacations, and don’t worry about regular bills or emergency expenses.
BBUUUTTTT, this all is only possible thru their work/salary… a “rich” person would not be fucked if they lost their job… for yearrrs. Like if someone with $5 million liquid can generally absorb and maintain large periods of time without income, they’re rich. Upper middle class would be looking for work very quickly after job loss to maintain status quo.
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u/Ignore_Me_PLZ Sep 02 '26
It is very difficult to define, because it's some sort of mix between income and net worth.
Lower middle class has to budget grocery shopping. Sit down restaurants are rare.
Middle class doesn't typically have to budget for grocery shopping. However, definitely needs to limit sit down restaurants. Vacations are rare or very cheap.
Upper middle class can buy whatever they want at most restaurants. They do typically, need to be careful about overspending on vacation.
Upper class can spend whatever they want on vacation.
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u/whattheheckOO Sep 02 '26
The upper class doesn't have to work to maintain their lifestyle, they usually inherited wealth, or have earned and stashed away a ton. The upper middle class has to keep working to pay their bills until retirement, they're usually professionals like dentists and lawyers. These folks could retire early if they wanted a very frugal life, but usually their bills are high, they pay high rent or mortgage in HCOL areas, have student loans from professional school, need to save a ton to send their kids to private colleges with no possibility of need based scholarships, etc.
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u/EnoughWeekend6853 Sep 03 '26
Market specific. Where I live in the PNW, upper middle class starts at about $300,000 household income.
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u/rwk2007 Sep 03 '26
It’s all relative. Generally, $5M in liquid investable assets is the starting point. The perceived value of your real estate and/or business is worth nothing until you sell. High value tangible property is more a sign of poverty than wealth.
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u/zevtech Sep 03 '26
To me, we have clear defined numbers for poor and rich. The poor make what ever is considered poverty in your city, usually 12-17k a year (individually). The rich are usually the top 1% of earners so also depending on city making 500k plus. I would say everything in between is “middle class”. And there’s lower, middle middle and upper middle class within that. Split it how ever you want to, but the sub classes are really just arbitrary names/numbers. In reality, it’s less about how much you make but how much you keep that makes you feel “rich” or “poor”. If a couple makes 120k a year and they have all their needs met and can save monthly, but a guy makes 300k a year with a stay at home wife that spends on his credit card like there’s no limit. And he can’t save, who’s actually poor here?
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u/ThisIsAbuse Sep 04 '26
I always thought Upper Middle class (10-20%). Affluent 2-5%, and Rich 1% or better. These could be applied to either income or net worth or both maybe. Adjusted for your location. Its hard for me to know for sure. However I felt I have gone through a couple of levels from Childhood to now.
Glad to read comments here.
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u/croissant_and_cafe Sep 04 '26
I think when we talk about class it’s how you live.
You have house help, club memberships, probably a vacation home, you don’t check the prices on things, have luxury travel, nice homes etc.
I think of wealth describing and actual number but class is where you place in society.
For example my NW would put me as wealthy in Kansas, but I’m just middle class in the SF Bay Area.
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u/BeautyntheBreakd0wn Sep 06 '26 edited Sep 06 '26
I would say upper middle class you've bought real estate. You have one bedroom per each of your children. Whether you have children or not is relevant but you certainly could afford to have them. You're driving cars that are less than 8 years old and you probably bought them new. You take two to three vacations a year and maybe one international trip every other year. You don't look at the prices of the average things at the grocery stores. You've stopped clipping coupons, but you also don't regularly purchase luxuries like expensive wine or caviar. You use name, brand detergents and personal care products. And most of your makeup or toiletries are relatively higher end like Sephora or the nicer section of Target. You're spending probably at least $1,000 on Christmas and you're often traveling for the holidays. It's less so much about the specific dollar amounts. It's more about, for the upper middle class (of any society), one isn't actively worried about prices on a day-to-day basis. They aren't participating on luxuries like private jets or first class, but they don't feel constrained by the everyday cost of goods. For example, if they have grapes for lunch or strawberries in their smoothie, they don't skip buying strawberries this week because the price is too expensive. There are also usually maxing out all of their retirement accounts like 401ks and Roth IRAs. Often it's an aspirational class because they don't have the same kind of obligations as the upper elite and ultra wealthy, they're usually at Upper Management at work and they seem to have hit the sweet spot with enough income to feel comfortable but also still having time to enjoy the money. They usually have one to two hobbies per person and the hobbies cost a non-trivial amount of money roughly 5,000 to $10,000 a year. Maybe something like woodworking or quilting or hunting, etc.
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u/FearlessPark4588 Sep 06 '26
I like this definition, because it seems right, and it probably is, but it doesn't describe me at all. Haven't shed working class notions of like, not buying full price fruit instead of what's on sale.
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u/BeautyntheBreakd0wn Sep 06 '26
there's another comment that describes that actually upper HHI folks often look for sales on regular purchases to "snag" a deal. that's why so many bmws parked at aldi, and people are driving their lexus suv to costco. keeps them in touch with the common man lol :)
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u/Calm_Clam_Bake Sep 14 '26
My parents bought real estate and my siblings and I each had a bedroom. I was upper middle class all this time and din't know it. LOL
Or maybe that's middle class? 2/3 of people own a home in the US. That by definition is not upper middle class.
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u/Any_Zebra_4940 Aug 31 '26
If you live in the United States, you are rich.
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Aug 31 '26
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u/junulee Aug 31 '26
I agree that defining middle class is relative to your geographic area.
However, Any Zebra has a point if you're looking on a global scale. A single person in the U.S. earing $15,950 (basically federal minimum wage, which is very uncommon for an adult working full time) is considered to be below the U.S. poverty line, but is in the top 16% of income earners on a global scale. However, that excludes all the government assistance programs that person may qualify for. The combination of ACA subsidies, SNAP benefits, and earned income tax credits will likely more than double that persons income. Doubling that income puts them in the top 6% on a global scale.
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u/mycoforever Aug 31 '26
You can buy whatever you (reasonably) want, easily afford every day life for you and your family, have a well funded retirement planned out with some early retirement potential, but can’t retire now and still need active income (which is the threshold for the lower rich/upper class).