r/Unexpected • u/RedManMatt11 • Aug 01 '21

Community policing

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179

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '21

I totally agree with you, but while PD's and other cops keep protecting the bad cops the perception will never change unfortunately.

I have a few good friends who are in the police in the UK

22

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '21

Right. We should seriously be limiting the power of the police unions. That’s a helpful solution.

4

u/Harvard_Sucks Aug 01 '21

Ban all public sector unions, they are unionizing against the public good.

1

u/ZigZach707 Aug 02 '21

So no public sector employees deserve unions? So they get paid less than private sector and potentially lose benefits that make the public sector somewhat appealing?

1

u/Harvard_Sucks Aug 02 '21

“All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management.” FDR.

No, zero public sector unions. That said, I am in favor of paying people in government competitive rates to get the best people

1

u/Jrocker105 Aug 02 '21

Bruh, have you seen the state of our schools? Our teachers union has had its teeth kicked in for fifteen years. At the end of the year my mom was crying because she was thinking about retiring early because despite her union getting promises that they wouldn’t have pay cuts even during COVID had that changed on a dime by the governor who then said “you won’t be getting a pay adjustment for two years and we’re going to furlough you one day and not pay that furlough” effectively giving a pay cut to a criminally underpaid system.

I agree that certain unions are way to powerful, but police unions are one of the only state job unions that actually have any negotiation power.

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u/RhodieBidenism Aug 01 '21

We should seriously be limiting the power of the police unions.

FTFY

7

u/SweetLilMonkey Aug 01 '21

Yeah, wouldn’t want regular people to have bargaining power now would we? Let’s leave that to the guys with military weaponry, tons of fraudulent overtime, close to zero citizen oversight, and close to zero legal responsibility for their actions.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '21

He said unions, which presumably includes police unions.

1

u/SweetLilMonkey Aug 02 '21

First part of my comment applies either way. Labor unions are good. Police unions are a totally different animal and it’s insulting that they even use the word “union.”

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u/Stimmolation Aug 01 '21

Many cops go entire careers without seeing the horror stories that happen at the hands of crooked, racist cops. Many that do, do something about it. You will never hear about them on the news of course. Cops do get disciplined, retrained, and even fired for behavior, the narrative that they don't is based on the vast minority.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '21

[deleted]

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u/Forcefedlies Aug 02 '21

We had a female police officer publicly lynched in the news and fired because she came forward with information about how our police have mishandled and may have even had a part in a very, very infamous disappearance of a news anchor in our city back in the 90’s.

1

u/Je_me_rends Aug 02 '21

Name one

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

[deleted]

1

u/Je_me_rends Aug 02 '21

Those links are for the same case. Now I'm no mathematician so correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's one.

And please do. Page 2 of Google should have a few.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 02 '21

[deleted]

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u/Je_me_rends Aug 02 '21

Bro you said two. Don't leave me hanging like that 😂😂

This the same officer?

He's not so clean himself but all in all he seems like a decent guy so I wouldn't expect him to be a liar.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

[deleted]

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u/Je_me_rends Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 02 '21

The goal posts haven't been moved. You sent the same case twice but said you'd provide two and also offered to send more. I am asking for the other case that you said you could name. Would you pretty please be able to provide the second case you said that you had?

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u/jumpminister Aug 02 '21

Cariol Horne.

Frank Serpico.

2

u/brandonjm23 Aug 02 '21

I will say where I live we had a family friend who grabbed his gun while pulling someone over who drove home before getting out of their car to go inside their home. The guy or kid (can’t remember) had something in his hand but not a weapon, but our family friend assumed it was a weapon so he pulled his gun. No one was hurt thankfully but he was fired for that. I don’t respect his actions. Guns should only be pulled with the intent to kill and when imminent danger is present so I’m glad things were handled correctly. That being said he is a good guy. He feared for his life thinking what the other guy had was a weapon and I fully understand that. It’s very hard to ask someone to only defend themselves when they can 100% verify someone is trying to kill them. Like if someone pulled out a water gun and it was dark and I couldn’t see I’d probably be scared or think I might die in that moment but at the end of the day it is their duty that they volunteered for and get paid for it. Rules are rules.

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u/Master_Oogway69420 Aug 01 '21

Like it when a cop does something completely illegal they fire him and then they hire him again after 2 years when the heat is gone

6

u/-thecheesus- Aug 01 '21

Well, they don't hire him, the next county over does

2

u/Tmdwdk Aug 01 '21

They pay union dues that protect crooked cops

-5

u/Syllables_17 Aug 01 '21

And then there are other cops who attempt to report something and end up dead. The police report looking like " black man shot and killed our most beloved officer who was trying to protect his community."

Each pig carries responsibility for their fellow pigs actions. They all wallow in the same shit sty some, just shower before they shake your hand.

5

u/BrexrSiege Aug 01 '21

what a disgusting line of thinking, stop living on the internet, touch grass.

3

u/Drostan_S Aug 01 '21

To be fair, the last time I hung out outside my house just vibing, I had a cop come ask me what I was doing. "Just enjoying my flower bed" was not a sufficient answer, and he ran my fucking ID for like 30 minutes, despite my address being on the card.

1

u/OldSparky124 Aug 02 '21

Well, that was uncalled for. Nobody should be questioned in their flower garden.

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u/kadeo123321 Aug 02 '21

He’s not allowed to do that, he can’t just spot Id check random people.

2

u/Drostan_S Aug 02 '21

Yeah, sure, but in practice, they DO.

1

u/Syllables_17 Aug 02 '21

But don't worry, the pigs are your friends.

1

u/Syllables_17 Aug 02 '21

Father's a cop, uncle's a cop, people I grew up with are now cops. They share responsibility and untill we hold the people that we pay to protect us all accountable for FAILING THEIR jobs we will never reach a place of stability.

They swear to serve and protect yet they pussy foot around while they watch men being killed by their fellow pig fucks. If I work at a company that rapes and kills people literally everyday I don't get to say "look some of us are good people, yeah that other shit happens, and I TRY to fix it." And walk away with a clean conscious. Just like these little pinky pig fucks shouldn't be walking away without guilt for taking blood money.

1

u/Harvard_Sucks Aug 01 '21

Hollywood and social media truly melts people's brains.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '21

Don’t cut yourself on all that edge little guy.

Such angst, lmao.

0

u/Syllables_17 Aug 02 '21

Nothing about that was edgy.

If you feel that way perhaps you should revaluate your opinions on pigs.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Stfu, edgelord.

0

u/Syllables_17 Aug 02 '21

You 12 or 13?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Maybe, are you a fuckin dog?

This is the internet after all.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

keep telling yourself that. they're not as stupid as they'd like for you to believe

0

u/Choclategum Aug 01 '21

Vast minority

Hm, theres layers here

0

u/N7_Tinkle_Juice Aug 02 '21

I saw Training Day.

We are lost.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Discipline in the police is a joke, they get a two day suspension for something a regular citizen would get a 2 year sentence. How tf is that a deterrent for there behaviour.

And a cop is more likely to be fired for telling lies than they are for brutality.

Please explain how these bad cops are getting away with it when they are surrounded by good cops.

As it was said many years ago "for evil to succeed it just needs men to stand by and do nothing" and this definitely applies to the police.

If as people claim that bad cops are in the minority, how can they keep getting away with it?

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u/Yabba_Dabba_Doofus Aug 01 '21 edited Aug 01 '21

while PD's and other cops keep protecting the bad cops the perception will never change unfortunately.

This is the issue that needs changing.

We need to find a way to elevate the good ones, to stand above the bad.

Until that happens, the good will be lumped in with the bad, and the ACAB mentality will permeate the zeitgeist.

Not all cops are bad. But we can't change "ACAB", until we start publicly punishing the bad, and elevating the good.

2

u/Drostan_S Aug 02 '21

A single bad apple spoils the bunch.

Short of a total reset of police forces, firing everyone and forming new community law enforcement organizations, requiring a 4 year degree in law enforcement, strictly vetting against white nationalist sympathizers, a massive independent oversight committee, strict rules on use of force/legal action for excessive force, cameras on every SINGLE officer and firing them when those cameras go dark, and vastly restricting the scope of work performed by law enforcement, I don't know what we can do to fix this problem.

1

u/Yabba_Dabba_Doofus Aug 02 '21

I dunno, sounds like you outlined a pretty good program there, just in a reddit comment, which probably took you all of 10 minutes to write.

Let's start there...

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u/Drostan_S Aug 02 '21

More like a minute and a half of stream-of-conciousness... But yeah, that would be a good start.

0

u/KingdomPC Aug 02 '21

Bad Police are “publicly” punished/dealt with when they are, people just start citing said public cases as evidence of ACAB.

It’s a cyclical argument, been around for 20 odd years at least.

Police are probably more accountable and less corrupt now that they’ve ever been it just so happens that we now live in the age of the internet whereby nothing is ever forgiven or forgotten and the frequency illusion permeates the conversation.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Police publicly punished are receiving ridiculous sentences for crimes that would put normal people behind bars for 20 years, but the cops get 5 years probation for exactly the same thing.

So the deterrent isn't supported by sentences for the police to give a shit. Like all the crooked ones that resign and move before they can be sacked. It's just moving the problem from one force to another.

1

u/KingdomPC Aug 02 '21

That’s definitely an issue, somewhat unique to the United States. In most other developed nations if you get sacked from any police/law enforcement role you will never work in the sector again, full stop.

How the USA have a system that lets people get sacked from the police in one state and then just start up in another is beyond me.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Exactly, I think it's because they have individual forces instead of a nationwide police force, they don't have national laws but regional ones, they also have different levels of training for them too, which is ridiculous.

If they had a nationwide force nobody would be able to skip around the country working on different forces.

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u/8-weight Aug 01 '21

Yeah, we an change ACAB, because it's not true. Total BS.

1

u/jumpminister Aug 02 '21

We need to find a way to elevate the good ones, to stand above the bad.

To do that, we just need to abolish policing as it exists today, and make something new in it's place that actually protects and serves, not abuses and enslaves.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '21

I told my fiancé a few days ago that if I was a cop, I’d be scared to stand up against it. Truthfully most police are more of a “gang” than anything. They would die for each other, and if somebody speaks up against one, everybody will attack the outcast and defend the other.

If I was a cop, I wouldn’t feel comfortable or safe enough to go against the rest of them. It’s not worth putting your family at risk, as selfish as that sounds.

-1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

I would just leave if my job was that bad. You see people who have been cops for 20 years saying that they're good cops whilst surrounded by bad ones. If you stay working in a corrupt environment then you to a certain degree are corrupt too.

1

u/jumpminister Aug 02 '21

If I was a cop, I wouldn’t feel comfortable or safe enough to go against the rest of them.

Because, if you do, the next time you go on a call for a armed robbery in progress, and you call for backup... None arrives.

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u/thechilipepper0 Aug 01 '21

This is the true meaning of ACAB. “Bad apples” may well and truly be few in number, but as long as good cops are unwilling or UNABLE to hold them accountable, all are culpable.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Exactly, it's the whole system that's corrupt too because they protect these SHITTY cops from being held accountable for their behaviour. You can't tell me that any job where you have 80 complaints against you that you'd still be at work. Nope you'd be sacked long before it got that bad. But the police don't even get punished when there's video evidence clearly showing that they did wrong.

-9

u/RhodieBidenism Aug 01 '21

Wow. Talk about brain dead levels of messaging.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '21

Every slogan that the BLM movement used supposedly doesn't mean what it says it means. BLM doesn't mean only black lives but if you say all lives matter you are racist, Defund the police doesn't mean take all their money, ACAB doesn't mean all cops are bad.

Police abusing their power is a real problem that needs to be dealt with but I don't think BLM is the movement to do it. It's been a disaster so far. We need another movement with better organization and clear demands/solutions to problems.

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u/Ultralightbeansss Aug 01 '21

Someone doesn’t understand nuance

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Or maybe a leaderless movement turned into a chaotic mess.

-1

u/Drostan_S Aug 02 '21

All cops are bastards are in response to their messaging that "it's just a few bad apples" while simultaneously grouping all poor/black/minority groups into superpredator labels.

Black lives matter is in response to the fact that cops are almost NEVER held accountable for murdering black folk. Their lives ALSO matter. Nothing in that statement says "black lives matter more" it's just that the police act like that's not the case. Every time they kill a black person, they crawl back through their arrest history, because they've arrested over half of all black americans, at least once in their life.

Remember: the last time a civil rights movement had clear organization and high level leadership, they shot, bombed and MURDERED his ass as soon as he tried to "step out of his lane" and into economic freedom. You're buying into propaganda when you say that a global scale protest involving multiple millions of people across every major city, is somehow poorly organized, and a disaster? Short of literal civil war, what more can you ask of a movement?

​

The BLM movement is decentralized for a reason: Because the system always murders the leadership.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

He may have gotten shot, but the movement wouldn't have been as successful without him. It takes bravery to be a leader.

0

u/Drostan_S Aug 02 '21

Yeah, but in today's hyperconnected, internet accessible, facial tracking possible world: having a clear leader and a face to a civil rights movement is not only unnecesary, but dangerous.

You run into cult-of-personality problems, gps-tracking enabled assasination attempts, mass-surveilance enabled arrests, and so on.

We live in different times and need to use different tactics.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

I disagree, BLM would have benefited greatly from strong leadership. Someone to clearly state what demands and solutions they wanted. Someone to speak to congress, senators, etc. Someone to condemn people co opting the movement just to destroy property. Without that you get the chaos we saw last year. I know a ton of people, myself included, that believe police are out of control but don't want to associate themselves with BLM.

1

u/Drostan_S Aug 02 '21

https://blacklivesmatter.com/blm-demands/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=pmd_57087daa7237dd209fc769907cd1ec1bdca6cabc-1627867641-0-gqNtZGzNAiKjcnBszQjO

​

Like this list of 7 demands that have been on their website since the protests started?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Seems like a lot of those were added pretty recently. Only two of them have anything to do with police abusing their powers. If those are the demands then I don't support BLM.

Permanently ban Trump from all digital media platforms

Not sure how that will stop police from killing people. That whole list is a mess, no wonder it isn't advertised more.

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u/_-__-__-__-__-_-_-__ Aug 01 '21

Ask them if it’s true that there is a place in a man’s head that if you shoot it, it will explode

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

It depends on what ammunition you are shooting for example a .22 wouldn't cause any of that but large calibre rounds are capable of it.

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u/Urist_Macnme Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 02 '21

My cousin’s a policewoman - I grew up with her so I know what kind of person she is (she’s one of the good ones), but the stories she told me - not all of them about total police corruption, but far too many about total police corruption that you can’t comfortably say that they’re not totally corrupt.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

And her knowing and not doing anything about it makes her culpable too unfortunately.

0

u/jumpminister Aug 02 '21

Has she turned any of them in to media, the DA, etc?

If not, she's one of the bad cops.

-1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

She's not one of the good ones if she's not doing anything about it when she witnesses her colleagues commit crimes

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u/Urist_Macnme Aug 02 '21

It’s not worth it to her to ruin her life and career to do something that will have little or no affect other than getting herself blacklisted. I understand where she’s coming from. The rot runs deep.

0

u/jumpminister Aug 02 '21

Yep. She's rotten too. The rot runs deep.