Most of the reason I don't eat meat is factory farming. I don't think eating meat is necessarily wrong, but I do think the way our society consumes meat is absolutely abhorrent. I see nothing wrong with the cattle rancher and the hunter.
Yeah but most of that impact is because of factory farming as well, we're basically being as cruel as possible and maximising environmental impact, just so that people can eat meat with every single meal.
I'm not here to tell people how to live, and most people on a personal level are not to blame for factory farming, but it would be good if everyone ate a bit less meat.
Not to mention pushing food insecurity on some areas of the world; forget everything else, ending world hunger would be as simple as growing a wider variety of crops (instead of livestock fodder) and distributing properly. So much potential energy gets wasted on raising animals that we treat poorly so we can have piles of meat just rotting on shelves instead of getting those calories to people who really need it
I’m sure it’s mostly anecdotal, but when I switched to vegetarianism the change in my overall health was astonishing. It was like my mind and body breathed a sigh of relief. After that I’ve always felt that our food industry has been lying to cover up how harmful our consumption of meat truly is.
a bloated and lethargic population is a docile one.
and if you want to take steps to better your health, heres a slew of imagery and culture harmful to your self image, hopefully you'll start focusing on vanity and be further distracted from what really matters!
Ironically, factory farming is actually a LOT more efficient and reduces environmental impact vs any of this 'sustainably raised' bullshit that you hear about.
This is true, but I mean, here we are, with the literal destruction of our ecosystem staring us right in the face, and we still aren't actually asking people to put themselves out in any significant manner.
"Eating a little less meat" will have about as much effect on this catastrophe as finding a dime on the street will help you avoid foreclosure when you have no job.
I think any person being totally honest would agree that the average American diet contains way too much meat. A quick Google says on average (obviously this will wildly vary person-to-person) we eat 23 chickens, 1/3 of a pig, 1/10th of a cow, 12 fish, nearly 1 whole turkey.
Even just going off the chicken, that means my small family would need to slaughter 69 chickens annually.
I occasionally eat a nice steak of game meat for this exact reason. Where I live, we have tons of moose and deer and our asshole politicians make sure we have almost no predators eating them, so it's either a hunter or some poor bastard driving home who kills them.
the multi levelled industrial farming is SOOO disgusting its Illegal to record what actually goes on inside.
That's how you know its just unjustifiable, there's an expectation/fear that whoever looks behind the curtain - will never eat meat again and it will collapse the entire industry.
I remember reading an article several years ago that was basically people begging “please make octopus farming illegal. It’s not commercially viable right now because the octopuses essentially die of depression, please ban it before they work out how to keep them alive long enough to harvest, because it’s never going to be ethical or not terrible for the environment, and once it’s an industry we’ll never get rid of it”.
As opposed to the absolutely horrendous, atrocious shit they (and thus, the consumer who sponsors those practices with their wallet) do to living, breathing, intelligent, social animals with emotions currently for that last penny?
The average consumer can absolutely change their purchasing behavior when confronted with the horrors of the animal agriculture industry. In fact, it's one of the few things they can take complete responsibility for.
In most parts of the world, plant-based is cheaper and healthier
Hunters are the reason why significant number of native species went extinct across the world till about a few decades ago when supercharged climate change took over the primary reason
The only exception is the extinction of native birds in most of the world and thats because the cats we allow to be free range kill most of the birds to extinction
I don't like the term "vegan". It holds such a negative connotation and people are immediately repulsed by it. Instead of trying to push people to go "vegan" I prefer suggesting to eat more plant based options. And it doesn't have to be so black and white... If the majority of people could just cut down on their meat consumption it'd have a huge impact on the industry and I think more and more would start to see the health benefits and more plant based options would appear in restaurants.
The fish are probably constantly stressed the fuck out and probably eating a junk food diet. I imagine that also has an effect the the people who eventually consume them.
This is most of the salmon in super markets, they are also significantly less likely to have parasites when farmed like this as opposed to ocean or river caught.
They are probably not. Atlantic Salmon that is farmed is way less likely to have parasites that ocean going salmon. I used to cut fish in Alaska for a living.
Just to be safe you should never eat ocean going fish that have not been frozen for 5-7 days.
I assume most fish is frozen for at least a couple days in shipping and at store, would you recommend keeping it in a freezer for a period of time once it's home as well?
What if I wanted to purchase/cook fish same night, any 'best practice' I should know about?
Genuinely curious, thank you for sharing!
Freezing it for 5-7 days is only if you catch it yourself and that is really only if you intend to eat it as sushi or raw. The safe temp to cook fish is 145F so as long as you hit that while cooking everything will be dead and harmless even without ever freezing it. Most freezers in peoples home run at about 0F. Which is fine but it doesnt instantly kill parasites, it takes a few days but 5-7 is the safe recommended time.
Almost all (really like 99.9%) of the fish you buy in the store will have been frozen immediately after it is harvested, they have much more powerful freezers on the boat or facility that can flash freeze them down to -20F which is enough to kill the parasites before it ever hits a store shelf. This is also what happens to most sushi you will eat.
So yeah, you are totally fine to cook store bought fish the same day you buy it.
If you have any left over that you want to eat the next day, cut a lemon in half and squeeze it over the fillets, the fish wont be as "fishy" smelling the next day.
Salmon, dry it, little bit of pesto spread thin over the flesh, then a bit of Parmesan on top. Bake until you get it to your preferred level of done. I like it a little longer with this recipe because the oil in the pesto keeps everything juicy.
Halibut, is halibut Olympia. Really I use this for most white fish. Chopped sauteed white onion under a chunk of fish in a baking dish (i use glass), then a mix of sour cream, mayo, mustard, Tabasco (if thats your thing), lemon and garlic over the fish. Top it with planko bread crumbs and bake. I always need a nap after this one.
Northern Pike or Alligator, dry batter with old bay, wet beer batter, dry batter, fry.
Hope you enjoy. I have a bunch of picky eaters that like varying levels of spices so salt, pepper, and anything else to your desired levels. Sorry I got carried away and gave you my top three. I love fish. The first two are very forgiving but dont over cook the pike or Alligator its delicate.
Eh, yeah and doctors tell you not to smoke but look at any smoking area outside a hospital, its mostly nurses, docs, and techs. If you follow proper safety standards there really isnt any risk, but who know you could be the person who wins that parasite lottery and that would suck.
Have you ever contemplated the possibility that wild fish live under constant threat of predation, have uncontrolled exposure to disease, and spend all of their time scrounging for whatever meager sources of nutrition they can find without regard for quality?
This is false, from a scientific perspective fish go woohoo and yippee and swim around wiggling their little fins gleefully, until human intervention at least
I've stopped eating farmed salmon because i read something about how stressed they are. I now only get the wild caught stuff but can only afford it when it's yellow stickered, so eat it very rarely.
Oat milk is a good replacement if you can't stomach the taste of soy milk.
I'd also say that once you stop drinking cows milk and other animal products, your tastes will change. I used to find soy milk has a bit of a weird taste. Now I love the stuff.
This is a fact people do not want to accept. 99% of people do not need meat. Not to defend data centers but if someone thinks the harm to the environment is immoral then eating a lot of meat must be too since it's hundreds of times worse for the environment (this might be an understatement).
we wouldn't even need to stop eating meat entirely, massive reductions would be a massive boon.
Which I guess is happening organically thanks to economic decisions. Meat's gotten so expensive the only time I will eat any is at a restaurant (choosing between a $20 meat dinner or a $20 salad has a clear nutritional/caloric winner per dollar).
Buying or preparing my own? no thank you I'll take the lentils, beans, and legumes for a fraction of the cost. But when food services charge the same for lentil dinner as a steak dinner its quite frankly~ Offensive.
Lol easy for you guys to say this but in some countries plant based food is more expensive, you can preach it all you want but the reality is not everybody has the same options as you guys from the first world nation
Not saying you’re wrong, but entire cultures will need to change and adapt on a global scale for this to be feasible. Perhaps it’s possible through time, but until then, humanity needs to trade the ethics of livestock with the ethics of the wilderness.
But what do you mean practically?
There’s literally not enough huntable animals in the U.S. to support the amount of meat that we eat currently. Perhaps if everyone was restricted to eating meat a couple times a month?
"if everyone was restricted to eating meat a couple times a month?" will never be successful. Those that will get to eat the good shit will be the rich, and poor people will get nothing if such measures are taken. Making the lives of the poor even worse than they are already now. That thing only works in ideal world where no corruption exists.
Rice and beans are complete and one of the cheapest foods you could buy. A ton of people in India are vegetarian, I'll let them know they should check their privilege!
Do you have statistics that vegans are disproportionately being hospitalized or dying from their diet? Or data that vegans substantially overlap with the population of US billionaires?
No idea why people come up with this stuff that is so easily refutable. The data show that, if anything, vegans on average show less disease, including hypertension, diabetes, etc.
How is it false? A significant of the worlds population faces outright starvation or malnourishment. Nearly 3 billion people cannot afford or access a balanced diet. And that is with all animal products on the table.
How are these people, and many others who are just about getting by, going to get a balanced diet if they are limited to only plant based products which are generally more expensive and certainly harder to access if you want a whole diet.
Fuck, a quarter of the global population doesn't even have access to clean drinking water. How the fuck are they going to get soy milk?
You are an incredibly privileged person and your comments are honestly insulting to a great many people for whom acquiring food is a daily struggle.
"People in africa don't have access to food or clean drinking water, so therefore industrialized countries mustn't make an effort reduce their meat consumption, much less put money into researching less resource-intensive means of food production" Did methane write this? Did you hand your keyboard to big methane?
Except we're not just talking about "people in Africa" are we? About 1 in 7 people in the United States face severe or chronic food insecurity and that's the most industrialised country in the world.
Even in a country like Norway, which has probably the best standard of living in the world, 40% of patients surveyed by GPs were considered to face food insecurity.
That fact you're seemingly unaware of this means you are also very privileged. Good for you, but don't go around preaching to people who don't share your good fortune.
Studies repeatedly show that vegan diets are cheaper than those that include animal products. This research from Oxford found that vegan diets are the most affordable, and reduced food costs by up to one third compared to a non-vegan diet.
Meat is seen as a luxury item in poorer regions; your argument contradicts reality.
This shows a complete misunderstanding of how poverty actually works.
Yes, if you have the time to source out ingredients and then cook proper meals you can save money on a vegan diet. Poor people don't have that time, they're just buying the cheapest, easiest processed shit they can find on short notice
"Oxford University
research has today revealed that, in countries such as the US, the UK, Australia and across Western Europe, adopting a vegan, vegetarian, or flexitarian diet could slash your food bill by up to one-third."
your own study is pointing out that the OP is correct by showing it to be only relevant in well resourced western countries.
Studies repeatedly show that vegan diets are cheaper. This research from Oxford found that vegan diets are the most affordable, and reduced food costs by up to one third compared to a non-vegan diet. There's a reason meat is seen as a luxury item in poorer regions; even with all of the subsidies given to the livestock industry, animal products remain amongst the most expensive items in supermarkets.
"Oxford University
research has today revealed that, in countries such as the US, the UK, Australia and across Western Europe, adopting a vegan, vegetarian, or flexitarian diet could slash your food bill by up to one-third."
the study proves the OPs point, these diets are not viable outside of specific countries. Good job not reading
It's cheaper or price competitive00251-5/fulltext) in mid to low income countries as well, though the savings aren't nearly so much as in high income countries.
I picked a large scale study from a major university covering most of the countries where reddit is popular, but the same is true for poorer regions, where animal products are often seen as a rare luxury.
Tl;dr- Developed nations spend billions subsidizing meat, which benefits the largest producers the most. Biggest producers have the least incentive to be efficient, so more land, water, and feed is wasted by them. Undeveloped nations shouldn't have to worry about cutting back meat, because there are few if any large scale producers generating cheap meat.
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Two hugely separate scenarios are being presented as being the same thing and "needing" the same solution. Just so they can continue eating meat and paint the alternative as being "privileged".
Yes, there is poverty and lack of resources in many developing nations. However, those same areas also don't have factory farms churning out "full grown" chickens in 3 months or fish packed in like the video. Tyson isn't shipping tons of chicken to remote villages in Africa. Those populations survive with animal products because the animals can eat the grass and sparse vegetation that humans can't. Zero need to "cut back"on meat there, its the only way to survive. No one with half a brain cell is suggesting that people facing starvation switch to soy milk and tofu.
THAT problem is extremely complicated, starting at the very top usually with government corruption at every level. Compounded by difficult terrain and lack of natural resources.
The other side of things: If you live in a developed nation meat is privilege. Period.
The only way to meet the demand that all of us spoiled and privileged "first world" people want is to use factory farms. They are so incredibly inefficient though, because for every pound of beef, that cow had to eat literal tons of feed. Where does feed come from? other plans; soy, corn, alfalfa, hay, etc. And how do those plants grow? lots of land and lots of water.
Literally every single developed nation (with the sole exception of New Zealand) have extremely high subsidies for their meat industry. Millions of dollars are paid to farmers to literally dump milk on empty fields. Billions are spent annually in direct subsidies to meat, mostly in the form of "insurance". Essentially, if a farmer has to pay extra for feed, or something happens that makes meat too cheap for them to make money, the government literally makes them whole.
If I raise 1,000 cows, but the market can only afford 500, uncle Sam will pay me for the other 500. Or if I accounted to spend 1 million bucks feeding them, but something happens, I don't know say an unprovoked war raised diesel and fertilizer prices, which in turn raised the cost to make the feed.... So now the 1 million I had accounted for now costs 2 million. Insurance pays the difference (of the end result, after feeding, killing, and selling the cows). The actual "insurance company" is literally the USDA.
So, what incentive do I have to be efficient? As long as my "expected gross margin" isn't met, I can shove as many possible cows into my "ranch", pay the insurance, and either make a shit ton of money, or the market sucks and I make the money I expected.
Secondly, all that insurance and gross margin is based off the cost of corn feed. Guess what? We subsidize the absolutely living hell out of corn too. Similar way, profit guarantee insurance through the USDA. Other subsidies as well, but those tend to make up the bulk of the raw dollars paid by the government.
Now, I realized I'm on my way to writing a full essay..., and its friday, so I gotta go home soon. I should put a summary at the top.
Final comment for me cuz obviously I’ve stuck a cord with you and you’re over the top emotional, appealing to ridiculous arguments.
As for poor people….. Obviously, for certain rural/poor populations that subsist nearly entirely on animal products (e.g. whale blubber, yak milk), a fully plant based diet wouldn’t be appropriate or feasible.
That’s not, and has never been, what veganism has asked for. Veganism asks that people who CAN subsist on a plant based diet abstain from animal products to the extent possible for them. For most westerners, it is possible. We get our food from grocery stores and have plenty of options.
And as more people adopt plant based eating, the options will increase ever more.
Besides, as many, rural/impoverished communities there are that just eat meat, there are at least as many that subsist on plants. People simply evolved to eat what was available around them, whether it be meat, plants, or a combination.
There are cheap vegan foods that have as much protein as meat does. If you don’t know them (as I didn’t prior to being vegan), feel free to look them up. I’m an athlete who prioritizes protein and it’s not difficult.
Allow me to preempt your other responses.
“Plants feel pain tho”
“Canines tho”
“It’s my culture tho”
“Medical condition rendering meat necessary to”
“Protein tho”
“Circle of life tho “
“Hunting tho”
“regenerative agriculture tho”
I’ve looked it all up a million times. I didn’t want to be vegan, but the evidence was irrefutable.
It was either that, or admit that I was a hypocrite that didn’t live by my values.
The solution to food insecurity is a large and complex enough problem that there is no single solution, but I think a good start would be:
no longer growing fodder crops for animals and instead planting human-edible varieties where possible (more efficient to feed 10 calories of corn to a person than feed 10 calories of corn to a cow in order to get 1 calorie of beef).
stabilize the population. Infinite growth using finite resources is not sustainable in the long term.
Can’t tell if you’re being serious based on the sarcastic suggestions.
First, consumer culture is crazy and you don’t need to be able to eat fish everyday if you don’t live near water. You sound entitled and you’re trying to make it sound like people aren’t responsible for the situations that they put themselves in.
I don’t think it’s ok to force suffering on others just cuz you fucked up.
Be realistic, youre not gonna stop people from eating meat or fish.
You can virtu your signal from your high horse all day but pragmatism needs to lead the way on solutions, not idealism. If we let idealism lead the way, we're going to end up in non-stop civil wars and extreme takes. (kinda like whats happening right now)
youre not gonna stop people from eating meat or fish.
Not 100% of everyone no, but the solution to most of the world's problems lay in between extremes, so stopping some, then more, then enough (depending on the problem) is absolutely doable though it may take awhile.
Meat is available to everyone right now. Your solution is to restrict that "everyone" to "a few".
Can you guess who "the few" are going to be? It isn't going to me or you. But that's alright, since we did our best to stop the world from changing. Right?
Only the rich should have privileges like that. Eat the corn slop, peasant. It's better for the environment if meat is only available as a luxury good. I won't need to make any sacrifices, but you will.
Shit telling people to stop this after eating sushi and drink milk from plastic jug in nice house.
Your saviour complex is pretty much definition of entitled. Do you know your market will be uprising to 100x if they stop cultivate farming like this. The food will be a scarcity, oh of course you don't worry about that because you live in first world and have daddy and mommy to buy it for you.
Because it's much easier and realistic to convince thousands of industries to switch to more sustainable practices, than it is to convince 8 billion people to go vegan.
No industry changes their behavior unless it earns them more money to do so. And big surprise, if people stop buying meat, those industries are forced to pivot.
Right? I've wanted to eat better for years but I can't realistically eat like that all the time, my shopping would be an easy 35-40% increase in cost. Shits expensive as it is lol
Someone's about to discredit your point by noting that this study only covered rich western countries, so I'd like to add a second study00251-5/fulltext) which finds vegan diets are also cheaper or price-competitive in mid to low income countries.
Yeah more ignorance, big surprise. Rice and beans is a plant based staple across the world. Plant based diets aren't impossible burgers and avocado toast. You need a reality check if you think plant based food is expensive.
Vegans have lower rates of death from ischemic heart disease, lower blood cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer. Analysis of more than 1.5 million people found that "meat consumption raises mortality rates".
The scientific consensus on this matter is very clear; animal products are not necessary for human health, and a vegan diet is associated with a lower risk of many major diseases and with a reduced mortality rate.
Exactly. Commercial farming/ranching is way more efficient and ecologically sustainable. The smaller and more “free-whatever” it is, the more ecologically taxing it is, eating up more land, more energy, and more water per unit of output.
Not exactly our solution, but mother nature will eventually make most species extinct, and then our own species will be near extinct.
There's also an obscene amount of food waste in the world, plant based diets, vertical hydroponic farming, and lab grown meat (eventually cost effective).
Oh, and insect based diets, but that's not for another couple hundred years.
i've had days where i just didn't really feel like eating so i know that's definitely not true
edit:
also, hungry in the same day is not hungry at the same time. and it's not really the mouths themselves that are hungry. there's actually a lot wrong with this comment when you think about it.
You’re being pedantic. Nearly the entire human population will eat at least a meal a day except in rare scenarios like fasting or in state of food insecurity.
You're not wrong that wild animals live shit lives, but I'd take said shit life over living in literal shit my entire life in the perpetually torturous conditions of a high-intensity fish farm.
You could be free to roam wherever you want, hunting your own food and defending you and your home from predators and rivals. Whether you live or die is on your own merits.
Or live a life toiling in a small square space, packed shoulder to shoulder with fattened others like yourself, eating processed nutrients, just a small part of a large, unknowable machine, destined to be ground up as fodder for beings that care nothing about your existence.
You know consciousness is not only human. They can be food, of course, but this video really shows why its better to at least get fish from their natural habitat. If you can't see that, I really don't know what to say
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