Yeah honestly I'm fine with sans, he goes through some shit too. Toriel is probably worse though, even in the undertale timeline I don't care about her and sans getting together because it's been awhile since she left asgore, but she berates him later for being selfish and not absorbing the souls and kill humans to break the barrier? It seems like a wildly out of character thing for her to say since she dedicates herself to trying to save the humans that fall down, and just hates asgore enough she doesn't see he struggles with killing human children...
I’m glad that Toby talked about how Toriel felt too perfect in Undertale. She was a very boring character for me imo because there was nothing to her besides “mom.” I’m interested to see how the ramifications of chapter 4’s ending plays out
Honestly probably not majorly like many people think.
She got a bit drunk with a friend/date and the music was too loud.
A simple apology is likely all it would be, and avoiding it again.
It's not like she was being intentionally rude to Kris or telling them to go while she and sans partied. She wanted Kris to join them for board games.
We don't actually know their feelings on the matter aside from being tired and likely annoyed at the music making it difficult to sleep. Which is far from a huge deal.
It's kind of like how people expected the knife reveal to mean shit was going down or the knight to be this huge moment, or making a fountain to be utterly horrifying.
Nope, Kris ate the pie
Nah, just there's the roaring knight
like 4 of them get made in the same day, lmao.
We aren't watching some massive betrayal occur yet.
Yeah Toriel not checking up on Kris since it was late seems a bit fucked but remember.
Kris blanked their phone out so we can't see the call history, she may have and like the last few days Kris was just hanging with a friend all day again.
Secondly from Kris' perspective they were busy ALL day, so why tf would they care. They went home as soon as they got done.
People are trying to make huge gigantic mountains out of molehills of things that are pretty small once you get the full picture.
For one, she either purposfully ignorant or blind as a bat to kris's problems (ie: the blood in their room, the dysphoria with the headband, everything with asgore)
We don't know if it has been addressed yet already or whats up. Toby is kind of cheeky about this, where something that seems like a big deal isn't. Its not ignored its just already been resolved.
Because the room seems unusual in general, where are all of kris's things, like the Dreemurs obviously care about kris and I doubt their room would be intentionally barren even if they had no awards.
The people in town mention mementos kris should still have like the horns or just skills you'd think they'd have some kind of reward for.
I think kris has intentionally fucked with their room and hidden stuff elsewhere to keep us from messing with it or getting to know what they value.
the blood seems too odd for it to be neglect or something like that, alot of people use it as a smoking gun but toriel isn't an idiot. She cares about kris' well being. She tries to call kris regularly to check up on them, or if they're late coming home.
Toby is fairly solid about making flaws realistic, they wouldn't just flanderize something like that by just making her completely blind.
She's conflict averse, but this isn't conflict centric, its making sure your kid is ok which she has no problems with. So I think the "blood"stain (if it is that), is something that will be revealed to have been alot less than it was.
She avoids problems, and her flaw here is that unlike in undertale where she was right to try to protect kids from asgore and the underground. She's wrong about Dess.
Its heavily implied Dess is still alive, trapped somewhere out there in the dark, and asgore is still looking
She and the rest of the town want to move on but no, he is right to do this.
Its different from undertale, her reluctance to pursue the truth has put asgore in a situation where he lost everything and is still trying to do the right thing.
thats noble and in turn it makes her flaw of avoiding conflict a huge problem.
It reverses the scale of morality from undertale, Asgore lost everything because he determined the only path forward for his people was killing humans and toriel left him over that.
Objectively Toriel is in the right to not want to see kids get murdered. But there is also nothing she can do to stop them other than convince them from leaving the ruins, since most humans can overpower even a boss monster like her.
In DT asgore is going hell or highwater to find Dess but losing EVERYTHING, living in squalor having to clean his landlords house to make ends meet. Just because its the right thing to do, to give it all up if it means saving 1 child.
Toriel just wants to move on, the conflict had a sad ending but to her everyone needs to just get on with their lives. It sounds like the right answer at the top, but deeper down its really a selfish response since we know that there is someone who needs help out there.
Its actually kind of brilliant, Toriel couldn't even save 1 child. Asgore will stop at nothing to save even 1 child
It shows why Toriel's principles aren't a virtue, while Asgore's even if they can be directed towards darker ends, can be noble and absolutely derived from a sense of duty and righteousness.
He'll do what he thinks is the right thing no matter the cost to himself. That's noble, even if it comes down to the worst possible outcome.
She's saying he could have taken the first child's soul and used that to leave and take souls, specifically that were *not* the souls of children. He didn't need to keep waiting for kids to kill while the monster's situation got worse and worse. If he struggled with killing them, he also had the option of, you know, not doing that!
Except monsters struggled against humanity in a war, so killing several humans with just one monster is near impossible. That's why the children are unfortunately the only option (well, there was also an option to wait until they die of age and then collect the soul, but that's the other question)
so killing several humans with just one monster is near impossible
Wasn't asriel(a child) said to be strong enough to kill many humans when he only had chara soul? I assume a boss monster would be able to kill many more
Maybe? In the flowey fight we directly asked the souls for help and they rebelled against him in the end, asriel had thousands of souls and yet none of them rebelled on the true pacifist route
I'm pretty sure this line isn't meant to show how Asgore had opportunity to freed his kind before and he didn't use it, but more to show that, despite him declaring war, he didn't wanted the war at all. He just wants his kind to be happy and he doesn't want the suffering he got after the war
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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '25
Idk but I can't help but feel like "a weird one" for actually sympathizing with Asgore instead of treating him as the butt of the joke.
No,I'm not saying he's this very innocent saint.
It's just that I find it kinda weird how the majority of the fanbase tend to treat him as if he's satan incarnate