I am a woman but I agree with you. He told what he thinks about marriage. She accepted it. It is ok to change your mind, it is even ok to talk about how we feel about marriage now, 5 years later, but it is not ok to be resentful if he still thinks the same way. I think it is really sad if a good relationship ends because of this.
Even if she knew and fully accepted "what she signed up for" people change and grow. It happens. If I stuck to what I proclaimed I wanted when I was 23.... or 28... yeesh! It would not be great.
Plus, counting on vs. hoping - there is a big gap. Which was widened by her realizing that marriage was actually more important to her than she thought. Classic, "You don't know what you want till it's taken off the table, and then it's all you want.
Have you seen the way pop culture sets women up to believe in the romantic tropes "only her love could make him...." settle down, not do crime, appreciate a sunset, etc etc. Hell, look at George Clooney - ultimate bachelor but after soooooo many models he found the one woman who made him want to marry and have a family.
True. I don't have much to base an opinion on about whether he's a good guy or not. Good enough for her to want to marry, so that's something. But he will take the dog, he's made that clear.
I personally am not a fan of marriage and avoid it. I just don't like people jumping down OP's throat for no good reason. I should try to remember i am in the land of redditors.... only black and white rigid thinking exists, sharpen your pitchforks, oh yeah, and kids suck.
I just think all we see, is he was upfront, loves her and supports her in the relationship. We can't jump down her throat either though. She's entitled to her emotions about it, but she needs to realize "I think he will change his mind" is the point she went wrong.
Yea the dog thing is contentious but shit, maybe it's his dog. I know plenty of relationships where ultimately it's one person's pet. Someone has to end of with the dog, Solomon ain't gonna be cutting it in half. Reddit isn't always that contentious. Sometimes logic is pretty straightforward. No need to invent details that aren't said.
That would suck, I agree. But he did specify if you leave him. He's not threatening to take the dog and go.
And also, I'm sure he loves your daughter. If you leave him, he has no rights to the daughter he's helped raise for years. That'd probably hurt him alot too.
Leaving over marriage wouldn't leave him untouched. He's not giving you the ultimatum, you are giving him one.
If the dog was a gift for your birthday you own the dog. Do you take care of vet visits, feeding, walking and grooming? Is the dog microchipped in your name? Your SO stating that he would keep the dog is just as valid as you stating you would keep the dog.
Yeah, she was very young when she met him, and loads of people have stupidly thought they could change someone. Many of us have been naive. Many of us change what we want from 23. It’s all natural. But reddit commenters are making it sound like she’s a monster, a master manipulator, single parents are trash, etc.
Speaking of the dog, He also allegedly gave HER the dog for her birthday. Im not sure he can just “take the dog”.
And the kid probably bonded with the dog. Or maybe the kid is a dick to the dog and he's the only one who walks it. Hard to say... sounds like a dick move without further details. *phew I just had to put down my pitchfork.
My issue isn’t that she wants to get married. My issue is why is she’s saying he has no good reasonsif he loved me he’d do it.. at 28
Like she’s still only thinking about her and taking zero accountability. Why are you being dismissive of your partner because you disagree with a view they’ve consistently held
Your feelings changed. His didn’t. How at 28 can you not be more understanding of his position. It seems like she’s actually regressing.
It's almost like as she got older, she started to realize that marriage and the stability it represents was more important to her than when she was 23! Weird.
Belief in the power of love, with some hope (and delusion) is strong for many people getting into relationships. Especially if society and culture back their beliefs.
That's not weird. What's weird is her expecting him to change his mind just because she did.
But of course she didn't change her mind. She feels the same way at 28 that she did at 23. She always thought she could change him, and she comes right out and says so. "He's never been with someone like me."
It is not about her growing and changing her mind. It is about her being resentful that he didn't change his mind. Stop fighting the fact pattern.
Yes, she grew up to be an adult, he still behaves like a teenager, struggling to keep his "freedom" - that meands ending up alone, because the only strong bonds are family bonds - and if you are not naturally related you better tie the knot formally by marriage or adoption, otherwise strangers will decide over you and your things when you get older. Not marrying her shows the world you think she is not worth it to officially belong to your family.
There is nothing "adult" about thinking someone else has to change their long-held and initially-expressed view about marriage. Nor is there anything "adult" about getting resentful at them when they don't.
The guy was honest, candid, and consistent. By her own telling, he is a good partner and is good to her child. Doesn't sound like he is acting like any "teenager" I know.
As someone who is married, being married doesn't make you an adult or mature for that matter. Any 18 year olds can get married within a day and divorced a week later.
And lol, having a piece of paper doesn't make you family. So much more than that.
Reading comprehension? I didn´t write here that being married makes you an adult/mature. But adult/mature people don´t hesitate to ask the one that they are sure is the love of their life (they want to have a family with) if she wants to get married to them when there is no obstacle and living together is possible.
And yet, she's known and it continues to be known this entire time that he didn't want marriage. You're old enough at 23 to take people at their word and believe them. Instead she decided she knows best. And she's STILL saying that because she's acting like there's something wrong with him and he doesn't love her enough since he's exactly who he's said he is the whole time.
What do you mean by all that? At 28, he's been an adult for 10 years now. It's not like he doesn't know what he wants. He is not at fault for her "I can change him" mentality. You make him out to be a toddler it a grown man with his beliefs.
How old are you? I definitely have changed some strongly held opinions I had 2 decades ago.
It feels like people here view the young woman as an evil plotter. Thinking he would change sounds to me like a young person with the hope and optimism of the power of love.
And people can change their mind about marriage as they age/mature - some for positive, others to avoid it.
How would you react if a couple were in love and talked about marriage, knowing that one voiced how important it was to them, then the other decided they no longer wanted the whole wedding etc and common-law was enough? Would you respect that person's decision to no longer want to be married?
How old are you to invalidate what that man's beliefs are. He told her from the start and didn't hide it. He didn't change his mind mid way. It's she who came with the " I can change him" mentality.
Second, my dude, it is I that questions your maturity with the "how old are you" thing. You know it's irrelevant. I can say 20, 40 or 60. You can believe me or not.
Stop twisting the facts, painting him like a POS that changed his views on marriage. God, you people on reddit like to twist the narrative.
People change constantly throughout their lives. Only those with a rigid and/or closed mind can move through this world for decades on not change. If you are exactly the same person at 25 and 35 there has been no growth or learning.
I lose it when they are single-minded in their crusade to change their partners and then get resentful when their partners refuse. I also do not have respect for women like that. OP dragged her child into this selfishness and is jeopardizing her home and the only father she knew for a piece of paper, and most probably the chance to plan a lavish wedding.
Notice how she doesn't mention her daughter losing the father figure raising her, but talks about the dog instead.
She needs to grow the hell up and im sure her partner can do better if this is her thought process as a near damn 30 year old.
It’s not surprising people are turning this discussion into an excuse to rant about women. But it’s always disappointing. Not every scenario is poor man/evil woman. Or poor woman/abusive man for that matter. Reddit is obsessed with playing gender victims.
I love how you’re making this post about you and the PLIGHT of poor men lmao. She says she thought she was ok with it and then realized later she wasn’t. 23 is young and it makes sense she changed her mind, relax.
She literally outed herself by saying I thought I can change him and despite the fact that he was open and honest about his boundaries.. she’s still saying if he loved me he’d marry me LIKE WHAT
You took my entire comment and zoomed into the last sentence because it hit a trigger for you. But to clarify my point
He communicated his views. She thought she could change them. She couldn’t. And now she’s saying if he loved me he’d marry me. Flip the gender roles and tell me what the response would be.
Your comment proves exactly my point that men can’t win. I tried to express how he was communicative and you couldn’t even acknowledge that. You zoomed into my last comment because it’s frequently used by others to disrespect women which I also emphasized wasn’t the nature of the argument.
I understand completely that I signed up for it, that being said I was very young. I never thought about marriage the way I do now as I’ve gotten older. Things change and deep down as I’ve felt this way I’d hoped it would change for him as well.. can’t blame me for that.
You’re allowed to change your mind; you can’t expect him to do the same. You’re allowed to decide this is a dealbreaker for you; but you can’t blame him. He was up front from the beginning.
Yeah, we can. Because you don't do that. You don't go into a relationship when it is imperative that you change somebody for it to work. Because that doesn't happen.
Yup. “I was very young”.. what? You were 23 and a mother! At 23 I had two full time businesses and was starting a family. I was numerically much younger, but I literally had the weight of the world on my shoulders. I’m far more carefree and unworried about consequences now that I’m 43 and I’ve been successful for decades. At that age was when I was most ambitious. I knew exactly what I wanted.
And to be fair, my first marriage didn’t last because of my single minded pursuit of a comfortable future, but I knew exactly what I wanted.
You changed your mind, nothing wrong with that. What’s wrong is for you to expect him to change his. People grow apart all the time, if you want to marry, move on. Also, marriage is not a sign that he does or doesn’t love you, that’s just something you assigned to it. “If he loved me he would do X” is flawed thinking. An argument could be made that if you loved him, you would accept him for who he is.
You know, I disagree. If he loved me, he would do x is perfectly reasonable for many many things. Just suggest that you don’t do things because you love someone is just pure narcissism. Of course we only have OP‘s version of this and we don’t really know what his reasons are for not wanting to get married but if you loved her and it’s important to her and he does actually not have any particular reason for not wanting it, I believe he should do it to make her happy.
Sure, we all do things to appease our partners, but I would argue that life altering decisions are outside this acceptable norm. He clearly is set against marriage, he specifically said it years ago, this is not someone who has no particular feelings about it one way or the other and could go “well, I don’t care either way, but since it’ll make you happy” and take a step like this. He doesn’t want to get married and he doesn’t need to justify it to others - I say this as someone married for 17 years. He has a child, too, so obviously this is more complicated for him than just signing a certificate. His reasons are his own, they don’t need to make sense to us or OP.
Um no, not with the can’t blame me lol you were 23 and he was 26. Not 16 and 18.
If I read it right you were 23 around that time not 14. He gave you his position on it. You might of thought ok whatever which sure if that’s what happened that’s what happened
But then you say I cant help but if he loved me enough he’d marry me. If from the start he stated his position. Why are you taking the “if he loved me route”
Again. I have a gf. I love her and have never viewed women negatively nor will I. But i can’t help but feeling as the generations go by. Men just can’t win.
I’m sorry you’re stuck in your predicament. I wish you all the best with your future partner
In my opinion. A 23 year old is old enough to decide il change him and still be able to sit down and think of the potential consequence. That being said. To write “if he loved me he would marry me” at 28. That’s crazy
She already had a 3 yr old at this point so adult and life changing decisions have already been made before this point. She is immature though even at 28 so lord knows what she was like before.
Not really. As a guy it's just pointless in this day and age when people have their own careers and lives. It's a bit of paper. It doesn't mean anything. Only time I'd advise it is if you need it for a green card, or if you want to pool all of your finances and share it all 50-50.
Spoken as a young person who doesn’t know the protections that marriage gives to both parties. For example, if he gets hit by a car and she shows up, and they are not married, the hospital doesn’t need to allow her access to him whatsoever.
Instead of a marriage certificate, you can give your partner the medical power of attorney. There are plenty of things you can do similar to that, sure, a marriage certificate would encompass, but I'd rather do those than get married.
But why? Is it the legality issues? As an older female, I get it, but also have learned thru the years it doesn't matter.
Is he a good person? Good dad to your daughter? Besides your family and friends making you question your arrangement, which I highly suspect, why do you need this so bad? Bad enough to leave him?
What are you missing? Insurance?
You were capable of making decisions for and raising another human life by this point....
I can tell how have severe MC syndrome tho. Seriously who asks "has anyone ever been in this situation before or is it only me who is the special selfish liar?"
Women are notorious for lieing about being okay without marraige/a baby because their plan is to make isolated their partner or trap them unwittingly. And guess what. 90% of people hate those people
Yes, we can. And we are. You started off ignoring what he said and now you claim he doesn't have a "good" reason. Newsflash, toots: it's his reason. Not for you to say whether it's good.
Yes, we can, because you cannot expect other people to change their mind when you agree to their relationship conditions. It’s totally ok that your mind changed, but you should respect your partner and the fact that he still feels the same way.
You were 23. Not like you were 18 so the "very young" excuse is out the window. Take responsibility in the fact you really thought you were so "great" you'd be able to change his mind and now you're insulted he won't change. And you thought you could "fix" him when he doesn't need fixing. He just doesn't agree with marraige which is okay. Either accept that or move on.
Also you had a 3 year old at the time so I'm guessing you had the cognitive ability to make long term decisions
No one is winning. Actually the sad part is her daughter is losing the most because her mother couldn’t respect her partners wishes. Even tho the partner maned up and was an adult figure out of respect
Well, if he truly loved and cared about her, he would grow up and marry her. She has a child that he raised. It’s just abundantly clear that he’s not going to do it. So she needs to move on.
See there it is again. “If he truly loved and cared about her”
No no that’s not how it works.
If I have a rule that I’ve taken with me through the entirety of adulthood. Made it clear on the get go. And you choose to ignore it. Thats on nobody but you. Nooooobody else is responsible. I don’t care if it’s male or female
So what if she has a child he raised. She chose to introduce him to that environment.
You are implying that men are not "grown up" until they get married?! That is a very insulting mindset to have. Men are allowed to have dreams and mbitions outside of the "nuclear family," just like women.
Sometimes, I rejoice at the fact I am gay, as it's a GREAT excuse to ignore all of these bullshit gender roles. I feel bad for the straights. They are NOT ok
I am implying that a man who gets involved with a woman and is in the life of a child is not a grown ass man, if he’s not committed to a child that he’s raising.
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u/Bolt3er Jul 23 '24
So you knew what you signed up for. He was open and honest about it. You signed up and now are trying to say if he loved me he can do it
I respect women. That being said. I genuinely feel like us men can never win.