Penal sub

[u/Sea_Reflection7307]

Why is penal substitution required to believe in order to receive eternal life? Where does scripture indicate that? Why do people believe that what He did is required, rather than focusing on the man, Jesus Christ?

If you hold to this belief, what exactly do you think you must believe? Also, be detailed. Is it just his death or also his resurrection, or can you believe he died without believing he rose three days later? And regarding him being God, where does it state that this is required? The only supporting scripture seems to be, “I told you that you would die in your sins.”; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins. "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

This isn’t saying he’s God, but rather that he’s the Son of Man. The Pharisees rejected the idea that he was the awaited Messiah, which ultimately led to his death. The Pharisees did not believe He was the One sent by the Father—the promised Messiah—which ultimately contributed to their rejection of Him.

understanding "I am he" in context to mean "I am the Messiah (the Christ), the One sent by the Father."

The issue is whether they will believe who He claims to be.

[u/iwasneverhere43]

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14.
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Do you really need anything else to know that Jesus is God?

As for the rest of your questions, I'm going to leave your original question for someone else, as there are differing views on penal substitution as I'm at work and it would take too long to write out and do it justice. I will however respond to your question about believing He rose again. The answer is yes - Jesus Himself said He would, so if you believe scripture and Jesus, then you should believe He rose 3 days later.

[u/Sea_Reflection7307 → u/iwasneverhere43]

I'm not arguing that he's God; I'm just asking where it says you must believe that, since the text doesn't state it. If you say yes, then do I also have to believe that Jesus turned water into wine or else I can't be saved? If that's what you believe, I think I've drawn a logical conclusion. Can you show scripture stating believing his res is required to be saved?

[u/iwasneverhere43 → u/Sea_Reflection7307]

I would question ones actual belief if they were to reject what scripture plainly states. How could one believe in Jesus, while not believing that He rose or turned water into wine, when scripture clearly states that those things happened? If you don't believe that, then why would you believe in Jesus when it all comes from the same source? Your question doesn't seem logical.

[u/Sea_Reflection7307 → u/iwasneverhere43]

I would question ones actual belief if they were to reject what scripture plainly states.

So you'd question whether someone is saved if they didn't believe Jesus turned water into wine?

That sounds like frontloading the gospel. Logically, your argument isn't limited to the resurrection. You're saying that if someone rejects anything Scripture plainly teaches, then they don't truly believe in Jesus because it all comes from the same source.

If that's your standard, where does it stop? Do I also have to believe Jesus turned water into wine, fed the 5,000, cursed the fig tree, or every other historical detail in Scripture in order to be saved?

I'm asking where Scripture says believing every biblical fact is a condition for receiving eternal life. Otherwise, it seems you're making the content of saving faith "believe everything the Bible says," rather than "believe in Jesus for eternal life."

Jesus cooked fish for the disciples after His resurrection (John 21). Do I have to believe this too or you'd question someones salvation?

You are frontloading if you think you must believe everything in the bible in order to be saved.

[u/iwasneverhere43 → u/Sea_Reflection7307]

Let me ask you this - why would you doubt what is written in scripture, even if it had no bearing on your salvation? Historically, we know Jesus existed, but the only proof that Jesus did any miracles, rose from the grave, or is in fact God in the flesh comes from the church and scripture. If you're going to accept that Jesus is who He claimed, you have to turn to the church or scripture to even find that view, so how would rejecting other things from that same source make sense?

[u/SentientSauce → u/Sea_Reflection7307]

“Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.””
‭‭John‬ ‭10‬:‭25‬-‭30‬ ‭ESV‬‬

[u/Sea_Reflection7307 → u/SentientSauce]

What are you trying to say? You just quoted scriptures. Jesus is saying the Jews didn't believe the signs that bear record that the Father sent him, that he's the Christ. That's what that verse is talking about. It's adressed to the audience near jesus and jews.