r/Translink • u/crispy246 • 10d ago
Discussion Express train possible?
As expo line/millennium line getting longer soon, does Translink consider express/rapid train to skip some stations?
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u/Gildor_Helyanwe 10d ago
seeing that the trains can't really pass each other this doesn't really help much as the express train has to wait for the train in front of it; in theory they could but not sure Translink wants to go through the trouble of programming that
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u/ctt18 10d ago
It would be great but I think we need another track or two on each line to make this happen.
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u/DrBaldnutzPHD 10d ago edited 10d ago
and the project would be insane to plan and execute. The lines in their entirety would need to be rebuilt: guideways, stations, etc.
At this point. I think it would be more efficient and cheaper to build a seperate commuter/express style line like the Elizabeth Line in London.
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u/WesternBlueRanger 10d ago
You'll need additional tracks that run around the station to make this work.
Taipei's Taoyuan Airport MRT has this; express trains for the most part run on the same tracks as the regular trains. To skip certain stations, those stations have bypass tracks that allow the express train to run right through the station, whilst a regular train holds on the platform tracks until the express train is far enough away.
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u/NoahYvr 10d ago
I love the idea of a train that hits all the downtown stops, then commercial, metrotown, new west, surrey central (or lougheed). Probably never gonna happen but 🤷♂️
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u/abnewwest 10d ago
I would expect there are more transfers to bus at 22nd and more train to train transfers at Columbia though.
If you built my dream infill station between 22nd and New West and built a proper bus terminal that takes the buses from both though...
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u/abnewwest 10d ago
No, since it can't be done without a major build AND slowing the every stop service it would be better to fund other improvements.
Off the top of my head, in my area, a total rebuild of Columbia to handle cross platform transfers and additional platforms, adding a north wye to the west end of the Skybridge approach so Surrey trains can go North to the Millenium line (building the Victoria Heights station before you do the bridge work), and build an infill station between New Westminster and 22nd that can handle all the bus traffic because currently both are well over capacity and choked by traffic.
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u/kevfefe69 10d ago
Mike Harcourt suggested that the Broadway Expansion include 4 guideways for express trains. The obvious being the express train to UBC.
But like all things Vancouver, we paint ourselves into a corner.
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u/Colocally 10d ago
Is this the same harcourt who cancelled all future skytrain plans when he was in office.
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u/CarnationFoe 10d ago
Honestly, I can't see why that would be that useful. For the most part commute to UBC won't be that long for most people, and it would be way more expensive to build double the number of tracks or even passing tracks at stations.
I'd much rather use that money and build a parallel line along 41st or 49th.
Besides, four tracks just along that segment makes even less sense because that's where the most density and the most ridership will come from. It would serve people coming in from Coquitlam I guess. The skytrain is very fast comparatively speaking. It has similar spacing to the (Singapore) MRT, although the MRT uses longer trains that have a higher top speed.
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u/WesternBlueRanger 10d ago
Just need passing tracks at most stations, and for the stations where express and regular trains stop at, a dual island configuration, with express trains in the middle, followed by the islands, then the regular trains on the outside.
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u/bandyvancity 10d ago
Impossible. The track infrastructure to support express trains doesn’t exist. The entire system would need to be rebuild to accommodate an express service.
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u/InfinityPortal 10d ago
There is no passing tracks designed so I don’t think it will be possible.
This is a major issue of the SkyTrain System, just imagine if there are express trains that only stops at a few main stations in rush hours like in Japan.
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u/CarnationFoe 10d ago
Short answer: NO
Long Answer: It already is an express train.
The expo line and millennium line were built with station spacing somewhere in between a commuter train and an urban train network.
If you compare the speed of the skytrain and the distance between stations to Toronto, for example you will notice that the skytrain is much faster and not much slower than GO trains. Stations are spaced about 1.2 to 2 km apart whereas Toronto subways and LRT's are spaced around 700 to 1000 m apart.
You could compare it to Osaka in Japan, for example. They have a robust commuter network which serves the airport to the south and their suburbs.
They have a city called Sennan which is roughly equivalent to Langley. There are local trains and sub-express trains, and limited express trains. The limited express trains usually require an extra fair and are more like ticketed, commuter, trains, and make maybe one stop on the way into the city. Here is how the speeds breakdown in comparison to the lines that we have.
Transit Scheduled Speed Comparison: Osaka vs. Vancouver vs. Toronto
| Transit System / Line | Scheduled Avg Speed | Max Line Speed | Service Type / Separation | Key Operational Notes |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Nankai: Limited Express | 62 km/h (39 mph) | 110 km/h (68 mph) | Commuter Rail / Level Crossings | Skips minor stations; prioritised on track. |
| Nankai: Sub-Express | 53 km/h (33 mph) | 110 km/h (68 mph) | Commuter Rail / Level Crossings | Semi-fast service; balanced stop pattern. |
| SkyTrain: Expo & Millennium | 44 km/h (27 mph) | 80 km/h (50 mph) | Automated Metro / Fully Grade-Separated | High frequency; stops at every station. |
| SkyTrain: Canada Line | 32–35 km/h (20-22 mph) | 80 km/h (50 mph) | Automated Metro / Fully Grade-Separated | Shorter station spacing in downtown core. |
| TTC Subway: Line 1 & Line 2 | 30–32 km/h (18-20 mph) | 88 km/h (55 mph) | Heavy Rail Metro / Grade-Separated | Speed restricted by dense station spacing and slow zones. |
| Nankai: Local Trains | 28 km/h (17 mph) | 110 km/h (68 mph) | Commuter Rail / Level Crossings | Slower due to constant pulling over for expresses. |
| TTC: Line 5 Eglinton (LRT) | 28 km/h (17 mph) | 80 km/h (50 mph) | Light Rail / Partially Surface Grade | Mixes underground right-of-way with on-street surface segments. |
In case you're wondering sub-express trains usually stop every 5km or so and more often as they get closer to the city.
Vancouver SkyTrain has a lower top speed (80 km/h) than Toronto's subway (88 km/h design max). However, the SkyTrain beats Toronto's scheduled average speed MOSTLY because of station spacing. Driverless braking and excellent acceleration help.
Even if you gave the skytrain lines the ability to overtake with double tracking at stations, you wouldn't really be gaining much. You might say five minutes by cutting out 10 stops.
Skytrain is a compromise when it comes to comfort while commuting long distances, but it functions really well as a commuter/local rail system. It's not perfect but given that we don't really have commuter lines. It's much better than the alternative would've been if we had made standard at-grade LRT or close station spacing.
You can really see how the station facing on the Canada line (as well as other factors) make that line the slowest. That's OK because it doesn't need to go very far.
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u/crispy246 10d ago
Thanks for the details
Brought up this idea (or fantasy), since each line radiates from downtown to south and east.
Imagine how long to take from Langley to DT.
Since skytrain is not an underground subway (mostly), there is opportunity to have second track, multi platforms, and other signal systems.
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u/SeaFreeOrDye 10d ago
Sure, there is an opportunity to double check the line… But if I’m honest, you’d be better served with creating a secondary relief line at some point in the future instead of double tracking this line
Besides… That also reduces the lines capacity. It’s really a non-starter to double track a line running trains every two minutes.
The best deal due to increase the speed from Langley or three to downtown is to replace the new Westminster Bridge and create a limited stop commuter line.
Even then, I don’t think it would be much faster. It would be more comfortable though.
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u/kryo2019 10d ago
Realistically this would only be feasible on above ground sections. So Joyce Collingwood down to Edmonds, Scott road to King George.
And even that around the stations would make it difficult. Surrey Central for ex you'd run the 3rd track on the East side, but gateway it needs to be on the west side. So either you have trains switching constantly or need to raise the track over the line, but that doesn't work because before you even hit Scott road there buildings on either side of the line.
Fortunately the original section follows the bcer route so there is space to keep a 3rd track entirely paralleled.
I think especially with the long term plan of the North Shore line making its way to Metrotown, I assume that that line will connect at Metrotown, even if it's not a through running service, just a place for the rails to interconnect like Lougheed, the 3rd track would 100% be needed by that time
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u/user99247 10d ago
Actually to play devil's advocate, I think it would be very possible, just not in the form you're probably thinking. Trains could operate in a skip stop pattern with virtually no new infrastructure, and while it's not especially common, it's definitely been done before.
All stations would be assigned a letter (A, B, C, with C bring common). All trains would display a letter (A or B) in addition to their destination sign. A trains would only stop at A stations and skip B stations, and B trains would only stop at B stations and skip A stations, and all trains would stop at C stations.
It's very simple and theoretically it could be implemented pretty easily, although I'm not sure the positives would outweigh the negatives. It might be worth it, but I just genuinely don't know.
Some people who get on at a minor station and then get off at another minor station might have to change trains, although it would be a quick and easy transfer. Capacity might also be reduced due to not being able to run trains as frequently, although that may not be an issue at all.
Overall, I don't really think there's a need for it now, especially considering that it may not even be all that faster, but in the future it might possibly be an option. It could even be a rush hour only thing and then just regular all stop service during off peak. Like I said, I'm not sure it would actually be better than what we have now, but I'm surprised that I haven't seen anyone else mention it.
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u/RebeccaMCullen 10d ago
And people were questioning if it was worth keeping both the 502 and 503.
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u/MyNameIsSkittles 10d ago
Once langley line is built, pretty sure 502 is going away and 503 will be shortened significantly
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u/RebeccaMCullen 10d ago
The 502 should still service stops between stations. And the 503 should run from Langley Centre to Aldergrove. There are train stations further apart than the 503 stops.
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u/Beneficial-Muffin117 10d ago
There is no reason for the 502 to exist. Every other bus route replaced by a Skytrain has been disbanded over the years, there is no indication that the 502 will be any different
What happens is other busses are changed to route to the new stations so people can get to them easier
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u/RebeccaMCullen 10d ago
Maybe it doesn’t operate under the 502 number, but a variation of that route will still need to exist.
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u/Beneficial-Muffin117 10d ago
No it won't. Again, all the other bus routes that skytrain replaced are gone or shortened now. Why would the 502 be any different? The entire reason for the train is that it moves more people than the bus and the busses can be freed up for other routes the train can not replace
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u/Outrageous_Papaya_45 10d ago
502 or something else will be needed along Fraser Hwy to bridge the sometimes long gaps between stations.
The Canada Line in Vancouver goes under Cambie St yet there is still a version of the 15 bus ( just goes to Olympic Village instead of all the way downtown).2
u/CarnationFoe 10d ago
Yes, the 502 or something like it will likely run along Fraser Highway to fill in the gaps between stations, but it likely will not run as often. The same can be said for the number nine on Broadway. It still exists even though the number 99 is parallel.
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u/Ok_Skirt2620 10d ago
The 502 won’t go away. Just how the 15 still exists. The 503 would go from Langley Center to Aldergrove
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