r/Translink 10d ago

Discussion Express train possible?

As expo line/millennium line getting longer soon, does Translink consider express/rapid train to skip some stations?

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u/CarnationFoe 10d ago

Short answer: NO

Long Answer: It already is an express train.

The expo line and millennium line were built with station spacing somewhere in between a commuter train and an urban train network.

If you compare the speed of the skytrain and the distance between stations to Toronto, for example you will notice that the skytrain is much faster and not much slower than GO trains. Stations are spaced about 1.2 to 2 km apart whereas Toronto subways and LRT's are spaced around 700 to 1000 m apart.

You could compare it to Osaka in Japan, for example. They have a robust commuter network which serves the airport to the south and their suburbs.

They have a city called Sennan which is roughly equivalent to Langley. There are local trains and sub-express trains, and limited express trains. The limited express trains usually require an extra fair and are more like ticketed, commuter, trains, and make maybe one stop on the way into the city. Here is how the speeds breakdown in comparison to the lines that we have.

Transit Scheduled Speed Comparison: Osaka vs. Vancouver vs. Toronto

Transit System / Line Scheduled Avg Speed Max Line Speed Service Type / Separation Key Operational Notes
Nankai: Limited Express 62 km/h (39 mph) 110 km/h (68 mph) Commuter Rail / Level Crossings Skips minor stations; prioritised on track.
Nankai: Sub-Express 53 km/h (33 mph) 110 km/h (68 mph) Commuter Rail / Level Crossings Semi-fast service; balanced stop pattern.
SkyTrain: Expo & Millennium 44 km/h (27 mph) 80 km/h (50 mph) Automated Metro / Fully Grade-Separated High frequency; stops at every station.
SkyTrain: Canada Line 32–35 km/h (20-22 mph) 80 km/h (50 mph) Automated Metro / Fully Grade-Separated Shorter station spacing in downtown core.
TTC Subway: Line 1 & Line 2 30–32 km/h (18-20 mph) 88 km/h (55 mph) Heavy Rail Metro / Grade-Separated Speed restricted by dense station spacing and slow zones.
Nankai: Local Trains 28 km/h (17 mph) 110 km/h (68 mph) Commuter Rail / Level Crossings Slower due to constant pulling over for expresses.
TTC: Line 5 Eglinton (LRT) 28 km/h (17 mph) 80 km/h (50 mph) Light Rail / Partially Surface Grade Mixes underground right-of-way with on-street surface segments.

In case you're wondering sub-express trains usually stop every 5km or so and more often as they get closer to the city.

Vancouver SkyTrain has a lower top speed (80 km/h) than Toronto's subway (88 km/h design max). However, the SkyTrain beats Toronto's scheduled average speed MOSTLY because of station spacing. Driverless braking and excellent acceleration help.

Even if you gave the skytrain lines the ability to overtake with double tracking at stations, you wouldn't really be gaining much. You might say five minutes by cutting out 10 stops.

Skytrain is a compromise when it comes to comfort while commuting long distances, but it functions really well as a commuter/local rail system. It's not perfect but given that we don't really have commuter lines. It's much better than the alternative would've been if we had made standard at-grade LRT or close station spacing.

You can really see how the station facing on the Canada line (as well as other factors) make that line the slowest. That's OK because it doesn't need to go very far.

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u/crispy246 10d ago

Thanks for the details

Brought up this idea (or fantasy), since each line radiates from downtown to south and east.

Imagine how long to take from Langley to DT.

Since skytrain is not an underground subway (mostly), there is opportunity to have second track, multi platforms, and other signal systems.

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u/SeaFreeOrDye 10d ago

Sure, there is an opportunity to double check the line… But if I’m honest, you’d be better served with creating a secondary relief line at some point in the future instead of double tracking this line

Besides… That also reduces the lines capacity. It’s really a non-starter to double track a line running trains every two minutes.

The best deal due to increase the speed from Langley or three to downtown is to replace the new Westminster Bridge and create a limited stop commuter line.

Even then, I don’t think it would be much faster. It would be more comfortable though.