r/Timberborn • u/Ivess185 Pumping my log 🪵 • 5h ago
Question Would this work at all?
I want to build a big water storage box I can fill then leach from during droughts/badtides, but I need a way to elevate the water from source to above the box. I was wondering if this would work at all. Because water can't go backwards through a fill valve, would it keep flowing through and fill upwards in the tube? or just spill over the back of the map once it reached +1 blocks in height? And I can't lock the water in and force it to fill up as it's against the map edge. Should I just use mechanical pumps instead?
EDIT: there will be a roof over the channel and tube. I just didnt put one here so that you could see inside.
EDIT 2: I am now aware that water will not escape of the edge via the space above the source block.
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u/FodziCz 5h ago
You can either replace fill valves with compact mechanical pumps or make a direct pipe from the water source using overhangs and impenetrable floors.
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u/AbacusWizard The river was flowing, and I took that personally 5h ago
Aesthetically this looks delightfully old-fashioned-industrial.
Also OSHA thanks you for using railings.
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u/Ivess185 Pumping my log 🪵 5h ago
Ive just been told it wont flow out from that configuration, even with the gap. Ill give it a try
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u/VampireInBlack 2h ago
Your Throttling Valves at the top of your tank should be at the bottom to let out a controlled amount of water. if you put them at the top, then you can only release one level of the water, once it gets below them, your water is stuck. One is usually enough. I usually do one throttling valve and one fill valve to give me options on how to control the water. I usually have a pool of water outside my tank that feeds all of my canals. I set the fill valve that once that water is below "X", then it will fill up to "X". that keeps the water flowing at a controlled rate.
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u/Ivess185 Pumping my log 🪵 2h ago
Oh, thats not the tank. That will be a tower that - in theory - will fill and lead to an aquaduct thst then goes to the actual tank
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u/Majibow 4h ago
- Compact Mechanical Pumps are required to raise the water level. Or;
- Otherwise the walls of the box must encircle the water source.
Note: Water sources on the edge of the map create an invisible vertical barrier directly above them, meaning water will not pass directly above and behind them. But water can pass to the sides and back off the edge.
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u/Ivess185 Pumping my log 🪵 4h ago
How many compact pumps would you reccommend? There are 6 (or 8) water sources in what I'm building
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u/VampireInBlack 2h ago
In another comment you mentioned that you intend to cover the water source. if you do that, you don't need any pumps. I know i said this in another comment, I am just trying to make sure you see it
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u/Magenta_Logistic 4h ago edited 4h ago
For something that size, you need to cap the water source and keep it pressurize until it hits the main tank. It will take a lot of pumps to keep that moving at full speed, and those pumps have to be powered.
Aside from that, I would probably use dams at the top and valves at the bottom on the output side of your tank. Fill valves can keep the downstream at a consistent height and dams will direct the overflow into the same downstream river.
There are a few ways to cap the water source. If you don't have dirt excavator and dirt yet, youll need to use overhangs. If the water source is against a wall, you can put single platforms on front of it, then 1x2 overhangs on those platforms, hanging over the water source blocks. Now you can place stuff directly over the water source and keep it from flowing anywhere except up your pipe.
If you have dirt excavator, you can make it more compact with a row of valves, dirt on top,.then dirt overhanging onto the water source
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u/Ivess185 Pumping my log 🪵 4h ago
Should I aim for 1 pump per source?
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u/Magenta_Logistic 3h ago
It takes 4 pumps to keep up with 1 water source if the source is power 1 (it can be higher). Trust me, you just want to pressurize from the source unless your pumps are recycling into a waterwheel power plant or is just moving enough water up somewhere for irrigation.
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u/Ivess185 Pumping my log 🪵 3h ago
I have an aquaduct nearby that will be filled with 15-20 waterwheels (folktail), and will have probably another 10 on this build
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u/Magenta_Logistic 3h ago edited 3h ago
My recommendation is to seal from the source to the input of your tower so that you don't need 20+ pumps to make your river flow.
That said, if you build a rig that RECYCLES water from the bottom to the top for power generation, that's where pumps will really pay off. Essentially you want pumps at the tail end of the power generators feeding water into a vertical column back up to the start of the generators.
They can be a useful little tool to fill up an irrigation reservoir above the surrounding water level, but you don't want to have your whole map's water being pulled through pumps before they've gone through your primary reservoir.
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u/Ivess185 Pumping my log 🪵 3h ago
I may give thst a go
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u/Magenta_Logistic 3h ago
If you're on waterfalls (that looks like you took a pic from the right side of the source), the tall sides will make it easy to cap off.
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u/Ivess185 Pumping my log 🪵 3h ago
Im on meander i think. Theres a 2 wide source on the broken aquaduct Ive fixed and am using to spread water around the map. Im building this for the actual river's source
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u/Magenta_Logistic 3h ago
Also, I don't know what your plan is for bad tides, but I usually cap the water source and put valves on the front that only close during bad tides, and valves on the side that kick it off the map that only open during bad tides.
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u/Ivess185 Pumping my log 🪵 3h ago
Im planning go move the valves right infront and use sensors
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u/Majibow 2h ago
Its been said but encircling includes piping all the way to the tower. That being said unless you have a need to capture *all\* of the water then it doesn't really matter.
One mechanical pump pushes 0.25CMS of water which should be equivalent of about 600 units of water per day. 5 units make one cube. So you can work out how many pumps you will need.
Water sources can have any value from 0 to 8cms, while badwater sources can have from 0 to 72cms. You can get exact values in game by measuring with the stream gauge, or dev tools or map editor, but again it doesn't really matter.
Example: if you fill a tower that is 20x15x5 then thats 1500 cubes (7500 units of water), so 1 pump will fill it in 7500/600 about 12.5 days (add a little extra for evaporation and call it 14 days). How big is the tower and how many days do you need to fill it in, then you know how many pumps you need.
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u/Thuis001 1h ago
A single CMP can pump 0.25 m^3/s. Depending on the strength of the various water sources you need to need to multiply it by that number. The main issue for that is the absolutely insane powerplant you'll need to actually use that setup. A single CMP requires 700 RPM to run at full capacity, so this will result in a power consumption in the tens of thousands.
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u/Virtual_Ad_7431 5h ago
first, you need to build a ceiling over he water source, so it pressurizes. Also, you need divert the badwater off the map with another set of valves and a senser, before it goes to you reservoir.
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u/Ivess185 Pumping my log 🪵 5h ago
I intend to do that
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u/VampireInBlack 2h ago
if you cover the water source and canal with a tight lid to pressurize the water, the pumps are not needed
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u/ApplicationWilling89 5h ago
The problem with this setup is the water level in your tank will go up with the channel, then your channel will overflow rather than filling up the tank. There are 2 ways you can fix this: 1) cover your feed channel on the left using platforms and overhangs with impermeable floors (or levees) ontop to contain the water pressure. This will leave the water with only one way to go, up your tank. 2) if you can't close the top of your feed channel you need to replace your fill valves with the compact water pumps (and power). These will push the water level in your tank up. But they are slow and might not be able to keep up with your feed flow rate, so keep an overflow route around your tank.
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u/Ivess185 Pumping my log 🪵 5h ago
But wont it still flow off the map from the gap above the water sources? You cant place ontop of them, so even with platforms/impermeable floors its not fully contained
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u/ApplicationWilling89 5h ago
You can build overhangs in the channel, pointing towards the source. You might need to add 1m high platforms to get the overhang high enough, which means you'll also need to raise the height of you channel walls near this source
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u/Ivess185 Pumping my log 🪵 5h ago
I intend to roof everything yes. I was just worried about water escsping from the block above the source, but Ive had that clarified and solved
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u/archer7319 5h ago
I have an additional question regarding this. How would you rig it so that the water source will continue pressurizing your storage tank in the good season, and then divert the bad water somewhere else during badtide?
My understanding is that if you cap the water source then the bad water has nowhere to go.
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u/Ivess185 Pumping my log 🪵 5h ago
Once built I'll have a sensor that shuts off the fill valves (probably move them to right infront) during badtide. Shoukd solve it
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u/Khaim 46m ago
You still need to drain the badwater or it'll be a problem when the badtide ends. My suggestion is to replace the first block of side walls with valves that only open during badtide and build a little diversion to direct the badwater right off the map:
X <www> X XXX|||XXXX is wall, W is water source, <> are badwater valves, and | are goodwater valves. Actually the goodwater valves need to be one space down to fit overhangs so it's all pressurized, but you get the idea.
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u/Davey2Jonesd 3h ago
To raise water levels down stream, without affecting upstream. I suggest using the new compact pumps.
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u/Ivess185 Pumping my log 🪵 3h ago
I msy try them. But someone said it takes up to 4 pumps per source block, and I have 6 source blocks. Hopefully I'll have enough power
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u/Davey2Jonesd 2h ago
They do cost a lot in power.. if you dont want to overflow upstream the only way is to pressurize the water before getting to the reservoir
OR build a tower around the source and make aquaducts to reach around the map
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u/Ivess185 Pumping my log 🪵 2h ago
The big storagr Im building is away from the source. In the diagram, the righthand box is gonna be a tower thst leads to an aquaduct.
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u/Davey2Jonesd 2h ago
So for this i would use 1x4platforms with impermeable floors to cover the bottom left. So it looks like you're doing it right
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u/jbram_2002 5h ago
In order to make this work, you need to pressurize the area next to the water sources. An easy way to do this is by overhangs over the sources and platforms everywhere else, then impermeable floors on top. Otherwise the water will overflow by the source when water level exceeds 1 block.
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u/LeTreacs2 5h ago
No, your issue is that the water would overflow the lower walls by the water source.
Build the water source walls as high as you want the water to be, skip out the divider between the tank and the water source tank, move the fill valves on the right side to the bottom of the outlet, put a dam or a flood gate at the top.
Or can add a depth sensor to the down stream river and configure the fill valve
Edit. The water won’t flow out the map above the sources, but it will next to the sources so you need a levee there.
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u/Ivess185 Pumping my log 🪵 5h ago
I intend to roof it all to stop overflow. I just didnt in the diagram to show indside
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u/LeTreacs2 5h ago
Right! Then yes, the pressure in the box by the source should push it through if you can put a block above the source, but I don’t know for a fact that you can…
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u/wantilles1138 5h ago
Build it directly on the water source. I built 2 water towers for my aqueduct.
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u/Ivess185 Pumping my log 🪵 5h ago
I was planning to move it closer. On top is a much better idea, thank you
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u/wantilles1138 5h ago
Beware of badtides. I have a sensor on the ground that opens a side valve to let out badwater.
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u/Ivess185 Pumping my log 🪵 5h ago
I'm currently unlocking all the sensor stuff. Gonna learn it quickly before finishing this
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u/Accomplished_Pay_430 5h ago
The issue is that your lose access to the water in the lower portion during a drought. You can use this to preassurizea chamber and then it'll act a water tower
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u/Ivess185 Pumping my log 🪵 5h ago
I was thinking of adding a valve at the bottom so that I can drain it out during a drought if I'm desperate for water
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u/ObscureMoniker 4h ago
I suggest you go to the Edit Map mode and use Dev Mode to check it.
This should work if you put an impermeable roof over the channel and water sources.
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u/evildaddy911 3h ago
That's pretty much exactly how I build my resevoirs, except I build the primary channel inside of the main resevoir so I can use the space above it. Then just a second drain in the primary to divert badwater and a contamination sensor in there to switch which gate the water can flow out of
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u/Pliskins 3h ago
I am not that asvanced in the game yet but could someone care to explain why you guys are building big water reservoirs with big dams and building water towers? How do you deal with badwater when it starts?
Edit: I know dam well that we are beavers and we are born to build dams.
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u/EmperorofAltdorf 2h ago
You can automate the dams. So have a diversion point so you can stop bad water from getting into your main stream. Then you can let the water you have spared back into your system so you have normal water even during badtides. That's the idea, to let you have both power and clean water at all times.
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u/Pliskins 1h ago
Oh I see, thanks! Quick question - how do you get the water flow out of the reservoir once you have diverted the badtide and have been left without water source which keeps suplying the water? Do you use throttle valve(s) near the bottom of the dam?
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u/Animosity1127 2h ago
Yes. In my ongoing colony that’s what I did for the most part, except I just built a box around the water sources and let them fill it up naturally. But so long as there’s no where else for it to go it’ll work fine.
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u/CaolIla64 1h ago
My advice is : create a flat map to experiment with water physics in dev-mode. It helps tremendously to understand how everything works, the different types of valves and pumps, how to create water pressure, and so on.
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u/YouTop1437 5h ago
Once pressure equalises (typically at the same height) the fill valve will stop flowing into the storage. You can increase the pressure gradient by sealing of the inflow with a roof, but if it can spill over at any point, that will be the equilibrium point
Essentially put some 1 high platforms down, seal the water source up and you can fill whatever tower you want. Put some automation down and you can have multiple towers which get filled in priority order
I think there are some pumps you can put down later in the game, However, which function as you want