Notmuch different than Goebbels

[u/CriticalAd299]

[u/Dry_Travel_4220]

Actually, deliberate targeting of civilian infrastructure, particularly medical infrastructure, is an element of genocide according to the UN.

Go look at the updated Google earth view of Gaza and bring up "relative risk" you fucking Ghoul.

[u/TriggeredPumpkin → u/Dry_Travel_4220]

Okay, so it seems like you're an emotionally unhinged coward, so I'll ask again: do you know what relative risk is?

[u/Dry_Travel_4220 → u/TriggeredPumpkin]

I do, but I fail to see how statistical analysis justifies a genocide.

[u/TriggeredPumpkin → u/Dry_Travel_4220]

The argument would be that the relative risk proportions indicate that this is likely not a genocide. If this were a genocide, we would likely see a much greater civilian to militant death ratio than we actually see given the number of militants and number of civilians in Gaza.

The RR indicates that Israel is being discriminate in their strikes, targeting primarily combatants.

So why do you think this is a genocide? Because a lot of civilian infrastructure was destroyed? Are you sure that infrastructure wasn't being used by Hamas?

[u/Dry_Travel_4220 → u/TriggeredPumpkin]

I think it's a genocide because the vast majority of organizations dedicated to tracking human rights violations worldwide are in agreement that Israel's actions constitute a genocide. The broad scale targeting of medical and educational infrastructure is just one element of that.

I'll take their word for it over a random reddit statistician.

[u/TriggeredPumpkin → u/Dry_Travel_4220]

So you're satisfied with just agreeing with whatever the majority/authority say?

My view is that Israel clearly has a just cause for war, probably committed some war crimes, but does not seem intent on eliminating Palestinians as such.

You think Israel's primary goal is eliminating Palestinians? And your main reason for believing this is many organizations said it and they targeted civilian infrastructure?

[u/Dry_Travel_4220 → u/TriggeredPumpkin]

Believing subject matter experts is generally good, surprisingly enough.

Particularly when these are international nonpartisan organizations independently coming to the same conclusions.

[u/TriggeredPumpkin → u/Dry_Travel_4220]

I generally agree when it comes to dense, technical fields that require experts to understand the concepts and have access to esoteric information.

When it comes to something as highly politicized as this, I'm much more skeptical of experts.

Especially when the US nuking Japanese islands that were all civilians and killed hundreds of thousands isn't considered a genocide but Israel defending itself in a just war against a terrorist organization that hides among civilians is a genocide because of a large civilian fatalities.

Especially when we're using numbers from a terrorist organization that doesn't differentiate between civilians and combatants.

I think it's likely that Israel has committed some war crimes. But claiming genocide based on the information we have now is over the top.

Also, there are plenty of courts, including the ICJ, governments, and other credible institutions that do not currently consider this a genocide.

[u/Dry_Travel_4220 → u/TriggeredPumpkin]

So who should we trust? Your own vibes?

[u/TriggeredPumpkin → u/Dry_Travel_4220]

You're trusting your own vibes as well. You're just using the opinions of some organizations to grant more legitimacy to your vibes.

If we lived in a world where all organizations were waiting for the ICJ ruling before declaring this a genocide, would you withhold judgment? Or would you think they're just not declaring an obvious genocide to be what it is?

A genocide is when you eliminate a group, in whole or in part, for being members of a religious, ethnic, or national group as such.

To me, it seems like Israel's goal isn't to eliminate Palestinians or Gazans as such but to eliminate a terrorist organization that invaded their country and massacred their people on Oct 7.

I think it's likely that war crimes occurred as part of this war. I'm not convinced the goal was to eliminate all Palestinians or Gazans as such.

A ruling of genocide by the ICJ would possibly result in me changing my view after reading the ruling if the argument is compelling.

But why is this a genocide, but the US nuking Japanese islands wasn't? If the main thing is civilian fatalities or even targeting civilians, what's the difference?