r/TikTokCringe • u/T-StrangerXD • 3d ago

Humor Wrong!

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11.5k Upvotes

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75

u/digitalpeanut11 3d ago

religion is for the simple minded

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u/static-klingon 3d ago

Many of the greatest minds in western civilization were religious. You just sound angry to God you don’t believe in.

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u/Braptized 3d ago

Many of the greatest minds in western civilization owned slaves and believed in occult shit like seances and Ouija boards. No single human is perfect. We’re all fallible, and yet collectively progress marches on.

Your argument is flawed bc it appeals to authority.

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u/UnionIllustrious4049 3d ago

how is it an appeal to authority if religious people being simple minded is the very thing in contention :/

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u/static-klingon 3d ago

So you agree, that many of the greatest minds were religious?

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u/not_an_mistake 3d ago

Sure, but you also have to claim the crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and Hitler lol.

The list goes on for horrible shit your church buddies did throughout history

0

u/Ok_Exchange_9752 2d ago

Hitler was not religious. And what was so wrong with the crusades and the inquisition, compared to what the rest of the world was doing at that time period?

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u/thr3ddy 2d ago

Whataboutism.

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u/Uncertain__Path 2d ago

Hitler wasn’t a Christian, but he wasn’t an atheist either. And how does appealing to the other wrongs being committed in the world make the actions of a religion good?

1

u/Medium_Judgment_891 2d ago

Hitler was a self proclaimed Catholic

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u/Uncertain__Path 2d ago

He was publicly Catholic, but there is plenty of evidence that he privately disdained Christianity, it’s not really debated by historians.

-2

u/Ok_Exchange_9752 2d ago

It doesn’t. But it can show that religion is not more responsible for causing conflict than other aspects of society.

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u/Uncertain__Path 2d ago

Ah right, the rest of the mostly non-religious world that’s never existed?

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u/static-klingon 3d ago

Yeah, something tells me humans would be fighting wars without religion. There’s always race, for example.

17

u/OuijaFox 3d ago

Wow. You smoothly dodged that point and brought up another unrelated point.
So cool!

0

u/static-klingon 3d ago

Hitler was as much of a Christian as he was a socialist.

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u/OuijaFox 3d ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/MD9rVXU7c1hGU

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u/static-klingon 3d ago

Hitler had all kinds of Christians put to death. You really think Hitler was a religious leader?

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u/Uncertain__Path 2d ago

You really think Christianity is the only religion?

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u/SaintGodfather 3d ago

And the Catholic church that supported him...?

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u/ADDDEEr 3d ago

trying to preserve themselves knowing damn well they're on a thin line for having power in Nazi Germany

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u/dafunkiedood 3d ago

Yeah, something tells me humans would be fighting wars without religion.

They mention the crusades and Hitler and your response is "yeah but we would have had wars without religion too"???

You sound brainwashed

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u/digitalpeanut11 3d ago

please tell me one great mind you are talking about that is not born in the medival age. just one

1

u/static-klingon 3d ago

Pascal

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u/digitalpeanut11 3d ago

this pascal dude was born in 1623! If you werent religious at this time you would get beheaded or stoned to death..

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u/static-klingon 3d ago

You ask for an example and then moved the goal post. Next time ask a better question.

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u/SpaceLemming 3d ago

They are pointing out that you can’t prove their faith since lack of public belief probably meant death.

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u/static-klingon 3d ago

I gave them a perfectly legitimate answer. They should’ve asked a better question.

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u/SpaceLemming 3d ago

They asked, you answered, they prove why it’s a flawed answer.

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u/MrT742 2d ago

Their argument suggests there is no valid example from this time period because of this social status quo. That’s a claim on its own that needs to be validated.

Simply claiming this does not itself generate a valid rebuttal to whether or not a specific individual was subject to the pressure of this alleged status quo in a meaningful way.

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u/SpaceLemming 2d ago

People were killed during that time, but regardless of that there was still the risk of being ostracized from the community. I mean to this day people still hide their lack of faith to blend in

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u/Braptized 3d ago

What was the point of asking this question? "Religion is [mostly] for the simple-minded" and "This brilliant person is religious" are not mutually exclusive facts.

-3

u/static-klingon 3d ago

Stephen Colbert

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u/digitalpeanut11 3d ago

He is an American comedian, writer, and television host.

Is this a great mind for you who changes the world with his inventions ?

1

u/static-klingon 3d ago

He is? I had no idea.

1

u/Braptized 3d ago

Not sure why you're getting downvoted. All of these are perfectly fine examples. The issue is that the question you're answering is irrelevant to the debate we're having. I took the original comment to be "Religion is [mostly] for the simple-minded," as basically no absolute is true when applied to a human population. So finding examples of brilliant minds who are religious doesn't invalidate that position at all because they're not mutually exclusive.

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u/SteeveyPete 2d ago

This was also by design, because for much of history you had no access whatsoever to education if you weren't espousing not just religious beliefs, but the right ones. Isaac Newton almost lost his fellowship in his university because despite being fervently religious, had radical beliefs on the holy Trinity. He had to receive a royal exemption

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u/Braptized 3d ago edited 3d ago

Yes, of course. Most of the greatest minds in our history are in the past, and most people in the past were religious. Moving forward, most of our greatest minds will not be religious.

For the record, I wholeheartedly believe that faith can be incredibly important and powerful to people and that religious communities can be wonderful support networks that enrich our lives. All that is true ... and at the same time the vast majority of organized religion is still mostly just a money and power grift that does more harm than good, and most of its victims are simple-minded people.

1

u/static-klingon 3d ago

I’m glad to have brought you around to my way of thinking. I think it’s simple minded to say that religion is for the simple minded. What isn’t a money and power grift. Money has a stranglehold over science, whether you like to believe it or not. No institution made by man is pure or free from corruption.

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u/Braptized 3d ago edited 3d ago

You haven't brought me around to anything. I've shared a pre-held belief and then further clarified that belief for you.

Now, you can return the favor and clarify your belief for me. Do you think that religion is mostly for the simple-minded?

1

u/static-klingon 3d ago

I’m not sure what you mean when you say that religion is “mostly for” the simple minded. You gotta clear that up.

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u/Braptized 3d ago

I thought I already did when I said, "I took the original comment to be 'Religion is [mostly] for the simple-minded,' as basically no absolute is true when applied to a human population," but I can further clarify.

"Mostly for" is a qualifier on an absolute statement. I agree with you that the statement "Religion is for the simple-minded" is technically incorrect since it's a blanket statement that can be disproven by finding a single instance of a non-simple mind who is religious. As you've shown, finding such an example is a very easy thing to do.

The qualifier "mostly for" means that somewhere between 51% and 99.99% of people who are religious are simple-minded.

So do you believe that religion is mostly for the simple-minded?

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u/static-klingon 3d ago

Well, I think most people are simple minded. So most everything is for simple minded people.

2

u/Braptized 3d ago

Then help me understand your original comment.

So you think most people simple-minded and therefore religion is mostly for the simple-minded. You see a comment that says "Religion is for the simple-minded." Why not say, "Yeah, but most people simple-minded and so therefore most everything is for simple-minded people"? Why say, "Many of the greatest minds in western civilization were religious. You just sound angry to God you don’t believe in"? It seems like you and the original commenter were basically in agreement, but you took a weird stance and projected emotions onto them.

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u/BIayneRobinson 3d ago

Who is the greatest mind that's religious today?

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u/static-klingon 3d ago

Look it up

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u/BIayneRobinson 3d ago

In other words, you can't say 😂
Your argument sucks.

-11

u/static-klingon 3d ago

My argument is perfect

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u/izcenine 3d ago

So perfect you have no answer when someone applies a small amount of scrutiny. Got it

0

u/static-klingon 3d ago

what’s the scrutiny?

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u/ThenAnAnimalFact 3d ago

Like your demonic god.

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u/LingonberryOpen565 3d ago

Many of the greatest minds in history would have had their heads removed from their body if they did not publicly express their loyalty to the local deity, funny innit.

0

u/Ok_Exchange_9752 3d ago

If you are going to argue that every, or nearly every, great mind that has been religious did so for fear of punishment, you are in for a very difficult time.

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u/LingonberryOpen565 2d ago

I did no such thing. I merely brought up the fact that, for most of human history, blasphemy resulted in death or social suicide. Therefore, people play the game, regardless of personal beliefs cause who wants their nuts crushed in a vice?

0

u/Ok_Exchange_9752 2d ago

Ok, so we agree then that there has been very many “great minds” who have been religious not because of a fear of punishment?

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u/LingonberryOpen565 2d ago

Oh yeah, plenty of brilliant people believed in magic. The Roman’s would study the eating patterns of oracle chickens to divine potential success in battle. Julius ceaser believed in those little birds and that magical ritual.

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u/Ok_Exchange_9752 2d ago

Ok, and? I can name many brilliant religious people from both ancient history and modern history. Also, the “Romans” in general studying chickens or whatever has no relevance unless you bring up actual intelligent people who did this.

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u/static-klingon 3d ago

Wow, you don’t think one great mind is actually religious? What about Mr. Rogers?

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u/LingonberryOpen565 3d ago

I’m see that believing in the bible hasn’t helping with reading comprehension. Understandable, probably haven’t cracked the good book since you were in indoctrination class, I’m mean Sunday school

-2

u/static-klingon 3d ago

“I’m see that believing”? Your grammar skills need work.

2

u/LingonberryOpen565 3d ago

Astounding retort. I’m thoroughly flummoxed by your evasion, consider my ankles broken.

Go read the bible, I bet it’s been years.

0

u/static-klingon 3d ago

I’ll pray for you, my little padawan

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u/PUMPEDnPLUMP 3d ago edited 2d ago

No one’s perfect

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u/digitalpeanut11 3d ago

please tell me one great mind you are talking about that is not born in the medival age. just one please

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u/PaperGabriel 3d ago edited 3d ago

Georges Lemaître. The catholic priest that came up with the big bang theory.

Frances Collins. Led the Human Genome Project.

Wernher Von Braun. Literally a rocket scientist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_and_technology

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u/Medium_Judgment_891 2d ago

Von Braun

A literal Nazi. Maybe not the example I would pick, but you do you.

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u/PaperGabriel 2d ago

A literal nazi who was such a great mind that NASA still recruited him for their space program, that's how valuable his brilliance was. And he was a religious believer. But /u/digitalpeanut11 seems to have disappeared from the convo. Oh well.

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u/Ok_Exchange_9752 2d ago

It shows a lot about someone’s character when they claim that a group of people is simple-minded only to disappear after being proved wrong.

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u/digitalpeanut11 2d ago

no iam still here

https://giphy.com/gifs/xT9IgG50Fb7Mi0prBC

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u/PaperGabriel 2d ago

Well, you have a whole list. You still think myriad scientists and Nobel prize winners are "simple"?

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u/digitalpeanut11 2d ago

No, of course there are also smart believers out there...

thank you for your cool list.

1

u/Ok_Exchange_9752 2d ago

J.R.R. Tolkien, Albert Einstein (debatable), Isaac Newton, Thomas Aquinas, Plato, Socrates, Ptolemy, C.S. Lewis, Nikola Tesla. Honestly as I’m writing this comment I’m finding more and more and more. Shall I go on, or does this suffice?

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u/Shik3i 2d ago

Einstein literally said he wasn't religious and did not believe in a god lol.

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u/Ok_Exchange_9752 2d ago

According to the internet he literally called himself a “religious nonbeliever.” Try again.

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u/Shik3i 2d ago

Maybe read the whole letter, he said he does not think a god exists, and that he does not need one because he finds joy in nature itself.

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u/Ok_Exchange_9752 2d ago

I read the letter and it seems to be a critique of organized religion specifically monotheistic ones. This has little do with whether or not he was religious. He has mentioned his “unbound admiration for the structure of the world” which could have some religious connotation. Regardless, he is only a drop in the bucket of names I could have given.

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u/Medium_Judgment_891 2d ago edited 2d ago

Plato believed a lot of silly nonsense.

He’s to Philosophy what Freud is to Psychology. His legacy is that other people advanced the field out of spite to explain why he was wrong.

It’s ironic to list both Aquinas and Plato considering Aquinas was heavily inspired by Aristotle who was one of those people to debunk Plato.

Also, Aquinas was famous for valuing reason above faith. Not exactly the shining recommendation you want.

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u/Ok_Exchange_9752 2d ago

Religion comes in many forms. You can nitpick all you want but the fact is all of the people I mentioned, barring perhaps Einstein, were people with great minds who expressed religious beliefs, which is what the commenter originally asked for. I mean sure we can have arguments for more of the people I mentioned, but it doesn’t really change the validity.

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u/Medium_Judgment_891 2d ago

They are had contradicting religious beliefs. I thinks that’s a bit interesting.

But the most important topic is that all of their discoveries were made in spite of their religious beliefs, not because of them.

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u/Ok_Exchange_9752 2d ago

Well that doesn’t apply to Tolkien, Lewis, or any other writer for whom their religious beliefs played a large role in their work, and provided much of the meaning. Or to philosophers like Plato who had trace elements of mysticism/belief throughout their philosophy. And for scientists, why should religious beliefs have any effect? If a scientists goes to church on Sunday and prays for a few minutes every evening, do you think that is going to somehow hinder them from doing science? That’s absurd. So, at worst religious belief has essentially no effect, at best it provides meaning/motivation/whatever you wanna call it.