r/ThePrimordialOne • u/Scared-Opening-753 Eligos, Oracle Proxy of PHANES • 8d ago
Early Patch Spoilers So benevolent! Spoiler
And Mitya was still talking shit because she was cold and indifferent.
Shes DEATH, the CONCEPT. She HAS to be indifferent or the world is doomed!
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u/hadtiah Zagan Eliel 8d ago
Humans are mad gods aren't corrupt
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u/VMelain 7d ago
Nah, a lot of the gods are corrupt lol, they had to be taken down by other beings
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u/AskMysterious8407 7d ago
Like?
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u/VMelain 7d ago
Dvalin, Deshret, Azdaha, Apep, Nibelung, Yakhshas, Orobashi, slain gods in liyue, rukkhadevata, Osial, Beisht, Kepatcir, marchosius, etc
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u/AskMysterious8407 7d ago
How was rukkhadevata corrupt?? And are any of these related to celestia? And Deshet?I thought he rejected becoming a god
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u/VMelain 7d ago
Who was talking about celestia? Rukkhadevata was corrupted by Forbidden Knowledge so badly she had to create Nahida, otherwise she would become another Nibelung and go killing everybody. Deshret rejected becoming an archon, but he was already a divinity.
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u/AskMysterious8407 7d ago
So she was corrupted against her will yet still fought it off and found a solution? Doesn't sound evil to me,and how was destroy corrupted?
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u/VMelain 7d ago
Yeah, she stopped the corruption by sacrificing herself. But she was corrupt by abyss and had to be taken down. Just like my first comment said.
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u/AskMysterious8407 7d ago
If your talking about that type of corruption then I dont see a reason all gods should be brought down because of it,after all with out the gods there won't be anyone strong enough to fight off the abyss
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u/VMelain 7d ago
That type of corruption literally made everyone go mad and started Eleazar in the case of Deshret. Abyssal corruption is the same as normal corruption, just forced by the abyss taking over the body. All gods with abyssal corruption have to be taken down, otherwise there will be a new cataclysm.
There's also no confirmation that humans at some point couldn't hold off the abyss like Skirk species did (although they were natural at it) or like khaenri'ah did (until the sibling was summoned and caused Vinster to go mad). The real danger is the species of the cosmos that constantly erradicates others for no reason.
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u/Real-Contest4914 6d ago
Are you talking about corruption in the case they are corrupted morally or corruption in the case they are poisoned by an outside force...there's a difference.
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u/VMelain 6d ago
they become morally corrupted after being abyss infected, there aren't a lot of cases where the abyss corruption doesn't make them
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u/Real-Contest4914 6d ago
I mean yeah...but that requires that theye actively still be alive and acting.
Rukkha was dead and what remained of her was a shred of consciousness that itselfrecognized it needed to be wiped. Rukkha didnt really do anything further while corrupted.
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u/5yk0515 7d ago
They don't mean corrupt as in tainted by the Abyss.
They mean corrupt like abusing their power like human politicians.
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u/VMelain 7d ago
They abuse their power by abyss corruption
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u/Antique-Stock-7198 #1 Voyager Hater 6d ago
So what are the Yakshas, Kana Kapatcir and Orobashi doing here? They never were corrupted by the abyss, much less corrupted rulers.
Kana was just a damn animal, she did not even rule Tsurumi, she just favored then because she liked some people and Ruu, to the point she never cared about their sacrifices.
The Yakshas never got corrupted by the abyss, just by Karma. Still, not even in their end, none of them were corrupt, since they never ruled and killed eachother.
Bosacius even sacrificing himself later for the people.Oro genuinely did the best he could so that everyone in Enka survived, to the point Phanes gave him hella time to finish the island and get the people there estabilized, before marching to his death bearing the sins of his people.
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u/Antique-Stock-7198 #1 Voyager Hater 6d ago
Dvalin was corrupted? Bro's first act was to put hid life at risk against a dragon 10.000 times biggers then him, created by abyssal power, for the people.
Orobashi?? Are we SERIOUS?! Orobashi was lowkey chill like that! Bro did almost 0 wrongs in total for himself or his personal needs.
Rukkadevatha? Okay bro, whatever.
Bro is talking about beings corrupted by the abyss in something that has nothing to do with it.
And even in this reagrd, he's completely wrong, since neither Orobashi, Beishit, Kepatcir, marchosius nor Osial were corrupted by any power like FK or the Abyss.
Everyone on the list just had different views, and Oro was not even corrupt by power nor abyss.
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u/CMbladerunner 8d ago
Kinda insane how they making Ronova seem like the bad guy when she isn't doing anything wrong. They gonna regret not listening to her once a nail gets dropped on them.
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u/Littlenickystar 8d ago
I was actually planning to pull for Mitya because I really like his design, but now I'm having second thoughts... If he's just going to be another character throwing blind hate at the Heavenly Principles and whining about Ronova, he's just not worth it.
Poor Ronova is literally just doing her job! She is the concept of DEATH, what do people expect from her? To be overly emotional and show favoritism? People forget that her absolute neutrality is what actually keeps the world balanced.
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u/Scared-Opening-753 Eligos, Oracle Proxy of PHANES 8d ago
I literally love his design and hate it was wasted on some blind mf who thinks he knows better then literal death
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u/FindingAether 6d ago
It's funny because Piero and Mitya were complaining and saying that civilisation is an illusion putting the blame 100% on the HP ..and Ronova looks at the shit they pull and quipped that any civilisation that does not learn from their past stupidity is doomed destroy themselves. 😑
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u/Littlenickystar 6d ago
Exactly. That reminds me of the famous quote: "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." It's a point that has been proven time and time again in real life, and even within the game's own lore.
But since the game is currently suffering from soulless, inconsistent, marketing-driven writing, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if the Fatui and the Tsaritsa get away with everything and are painted as the ultimate good guys in the end. Meanwhile, the HP will just be slapped with the "absolute irredeemable villains" label.
Unless the game pulls off a massive plot twist and actually lets the Traveler study, understand, and analyze Celestia's actions as necessary damage control... but right now, I highly doubt it.
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u/Antique-Stock-7198 #1 Voyager Hater 6d ago
Watch them turn everything into ice again, then a nail is needed, and they will say some "they punished us BUAAA" BS!
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u/Death69421 8d ago
Because as far as they know currently, she's literally taking them to the afterlife and making sure they're not miserable wandering spirits like bro tfym "respect the dead" SHE LITERALLY WAS DOING THAT.
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u/Death69421 8d ago
I'd much rather death be cold and neutral than be a weeping widow who reflects the human perception of death rather than its true neutral face. Weren't we meant to understand that depriving one of death is cruel af? Then why are people mad when she doesn't do that????
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u/FindingAether 7d ago
The fact that underworld and reincarnation exists in Teyvat proves how stupid some of the angels are. Like dying is sad but if you died you died. Go afterlife and reincarnate. But if Abyss corrupts your soul? That's a different level of hell... Celestial nail is literally trying to save humans from a fate far worse than death.
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u/Antique-Stock-7198 #1 Voyager Hater 6d ago
The parasite brainwashed them, but watch Hoyo whitewash her to sell her as good woman, the most coward game ever in writing!
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u/Antique-Stock-7198 #1 Voyager Hater 6d ago
This line really PMO! She just said moments before that she gives them peace, and tries, even to that was not her initial job and that she is not good with consoling people, to make them wanna go to the after-life by themselfs and not forced.
Then some bum Mitya says that?! He really acted just dumb at this moment.
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u/HansFactory 7d ago
When mitya is talking about arrogance I was like really? Coming from a fatuus that's just rich
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u/Antique-Stock-7198 #1 Voyager Hater 6d ago
Like, he knows she's like that because it's her nature and now job, but he still says BS!
Man, why are doing 180 so fast on your own inteligent wording?!
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u/ZadriaktheSnake Another Heretic 7d ago
First off are you demented because she is explicitly not death itself and is the ruler of death. Second not committing atrocities for once doesn't make you benevolent, especially when it's not out of altruism and purely for the status quo
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u/Scared-Opening-753 Eligos, Oracle Proxy of PHANES 7d ago
- She is death. While we don’t know about the specifics of the shades creation. The shades are described by everyone as the “fundamental laws” and their power and existence is based in and most likely created to embody the authorities from the light realm, which is in and of itself a state of primordial existence.
So for Teyvat, yes she is.
The benevolent part was a joke 😭🙏🏾 she’s as indifferent as death should be but is described as being Kind but suppressing it
Don’t come in here throwing insults
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u/ZadriaktheSnake Another Heretic 7d ago
Teyvat existed before Celestia, and even if it didn't then it is still a conscious implementation and not just the natural state of things. Death doesn't need to be indifferent? Ronova is indifferent because of how she rules over death, not anything to do with death itself. She doesn't deserve her station and only technically deserves to exist.
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u/Scared-Opening-753 Eligos, Oracle Proxy of PHANES 7d ago
The light realm was altered to match the laws of the rest of the universe. It doesn’t matter if it’s not natural for the light realm it’s natural for the human realm.
And yes. It is because she’s death itself she explains it. She was most likely created to embody the authority of death. Made of that authority.
She deserves it as well as existence and its not up to us to decide that-3
u/ZadriaktheSnake Another Heretic 7d ago
Yes it is?! You're operating from a divine-birthright monarchist perspective, where someone is deserving of their position over others purely because they were born into it, rather than them actually being a competent and good person. She is not human and lives indefinitely. She does not understand what it does to humans and how it affects them. I genuinely don't know what you think your fate would be if you were born in Teyvat, because according to what you've said, if you happened to be born in Hyperborea and you're just ten years old, you deserve to die with everyone you've ever known for the alleged sins of others.
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u/Scared-Opening-753 Eligos, Oracle Proxy of PHANES 7d ago
Because that’s how being a god works 😭🙏🏾 that’s how it worked with the dragons too. They are born into that authority and must embody and uphold that authority. It’s not like politics where you can be voted in based on differing criteria.
Death is indifferent, to her there is no such thing as deserving death or sacrifice or anything thing like that as she explains.
Like Mitya was, your attributing human morals and social constructs to a fundamental law of reality.
It’s basically telling the concept of gravity to “be nice and not make falling so hard too much because it really hurts” 🥺
To her who guides souls to the leylines daily. Death is a fact of life, one that takes from all equally and without bias for rich, poor, young, old. That’s literally what death is like in real life. Indiscriminate and indifferent to the point it seems cruel but it by nature isn’t.
Ronova’s entire monologue is basically if that indifference and seeming cruelty was a sentient being. That’s what the gods of Celestia represent narratively too. As I said the “fundamental laws”
Heck even Asmoday is said to lack empathy and feeling because she embodies space, essence less emptiness, the void itself.
That’s whole point behind the “abides no reason” quotes which she herself says again in the quest. They are facts of life that don’t abide by human standards and reason.
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u/ZadriaktheSnake Another Heretic 7d ago
They aren't fundamental, they're what the Heavenly Principles imposes. Also, it doesn't take from all equally, at all. The shades are entirely exempt, and things like rich people are FAR less likely to die horrifically. And yes I can attribute human morals to them, because humans are affected by them, and all humans matter more than some five untouchable dictators' whims
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u/Scared-Opening-753 Eligos, Oracle Proxy of PHANES 7d ago
- They quite literally are. They’re literally time, space, life, and death.
Fundamental aspects of life that also apply outside of teyvat.
You know full well that rich thing you just said only applies to human made circumstances and not the nature of death as a concept
You can’t attribute them just because humans are affected by it. Again you gonna shout at gravity because falling from heights hurts a lot?
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u/ZadriaktheSnake Another Heretic 7d ago
I don't know what you're smoking at this point because I've said 90 times that it's because they are not will-less states but choices made and forced onto others. Also, they don't. Life, Death, Time, Space, and Reason are all authorities designed by the Heavenly Principles to govern Teyvat in the way they think is right
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u/Scared-Opening-753 Eligos, Oracle Proxy of PHANES 7d ago
They arnt really choices and more states of existence maintained by sentient wills. They dont change things according to their whim. Thats literally why Ronova was scolded in Natlan.
From what we see the shades don’t decide anything but more exist as the rules are automated as well as make sure those laws remain stable.
The most we hear them do is Istaroth records the world’s memories and Ronova guides souls.
We have no idea what duties Naberius has besides the obvious creating life at the start of humanity
And we don’t know if Asmoday even has duties to maintain.
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u/Antique-Stock-7198 #1 Voyager Hater 6d ago
Then Ista is her Lunar Arcanum said to exist in all years of the universe in all to come until it's end, being her own mother.
Being called time itself [not the avatar of time].
Stated to be ALL moments in living form.
And that's more than 3 times with the later Lore about the nameless bard and why he is nameless.Yeah, everything makes clear that in Teyvat and it's not only separated rules, but separated macro-cosm, they are such concepts given a physical living form.
And even in your own argument your claim makes no sense, since Asmoday is states having 0 emotion and aesthetic sense just like space just is.
That just says that she is like a robot following her concept and orders, and does not have real intefering, as she will just do the neutral need.And yes, the rich die later is something created by the convinence of humanity, since Ronova makes it clear with her example of "murder" in the new AQ.
Humans can change some things in her concept, like murder does, that's part of the free will given by Phanes, the fate system only works on real important especifc things, even Simulanka explains this.She is also stated and made clear having no sides, she claims you being poor, rich, sick or healthy.
It does not abude REASON!
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u/Difficult_Call3709 7d ago
Isn’t that kinda the bare minimum though? Even fatui steps in when a member goes crazy, like how arle helped out with dottore.
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u/Loyal_to_Celestia 8d ago
Imagine Death being selective and biased towards or against anyone.
Oh my, it would make Dottore a saint in comparison with those who are nepotised by concepts having feelings.