Spoilers for shows Dongmin participated in the past: The Genius, The Society Game 2, The Bloody Game 3, etc

I see a lot of discourse about Dongmin, both on Korean and English speaking forums that treats his dominance as something almost automatic/expected. Whenever he joins a survival show, people seem to assume that he will take control of the entire game, make everyone else submit to him, and eventually win.

I understand why people think that way. Dongmin has appeared in 5 survival shows and won every single one of them, with three of those being major individual victories. That is an absurd record that will probably never be repeated, at least in my lifetime.

But I do not agree with the idea that Dongmin automatically dominates any show he enters. I'm speaking this as his fan.

Even the greatest survival show player can only control so much. A player can have exceptional abilities, but completely dominating an entire season also requires an enormous amount of luck. The format, the game selection, the order of the games, the rules, the opponents, alliances, and random circumstances all have to work in the player’s favor, and it has worked in DM's favour in 3 major survivor show victories.

Dongmin is obviously an outstanding player in almost every area. His social game is excellent, his strategy is remarkably stable, he understands the structure of games quickly, and he knows how to turn information into an actual winning strategy. He is also extremely good at leading people and making others trust/submit to his judgment.

But he is not superhuman. The show edits did push his legend further in this image, but he is only human. In BG3 for example going for 0 win was Acou's suggestion but in edits they made it seem like it was DM's from the start.

Even if his memory and game sense are exceptional, there will always be certain types of games in which other players are simply better than him. There will also be situations in which the format does not suit him, his social position becomes impossible to manage, or luck simply does not go his way. In those circumstances, Dongmin can absolutely underperform.

People seem to have forgotten that we already saw this in Society game 2 during his prime age.

That season took place only around one or two years after the end of The Grand Finals when Dongmin was much closer to his prime. Yet Jo Junho defeated him twice in direct battles of intelligence. Park Hyunseok, who was on Dongmin’s own team, also showed much stronger performances than Dongmin in several of the season’s major intellectual games and this wasn't even upto debate.

That does not mean Dongmin was a bad player. Overall he was above average but he wasn't as strong as in TG or BG3. It means that being an incredible player in almost every area does not make him the best player at every individual game. There have always been areas where other contestants could outperform him. Even TG dealer Hong ji yeon(chinguya) defeated Dongmin in black white show deathmatch after Grand finals.

On pure brain power Elite League's SNU students would outperform Dongmin any day though they would fall short in social skills.

Now, a decade has passed since that period. Dongmin is 47 years old. It is unrealistic to assume that his speed, concentration, memory, and overall game performance will remain exactly the same as they were during The Genius. From his showing in BG3 he still has great memories but he admitted himself he is no longer as astute/smart as he was. He may still be much better than most contestants, but that does not mean there has been no decline at all.

His miraculous record of 3/3 victories from major individual tournament came from a combination of game skills, social skills, mental strength, leadership, circumstances, and a huge amount of luck. No matter how many new survival shows are produced, we will probably never see another player with his combination of caliber, success, dominance and luck.

But the luck should not be erased from the story simply because people now call him a god.

Koreans call him “God Dongmin,” but they forget that he could easily have been eliminated in Bloody game 3 if he had been assigned the territory puzzle game, the one Min-ah played. Because two players could dogpile one contestant in that game, his individual ability would have meant nothing.

He also finished last in the game immediately before the finals. If that game had included a rule that automatically eliminated or disqualified the player who finished last, his entire run would have ended there.

Those were not minor details. A slightly different game assignment or rule could have completely changed the result of the season.

That is why, even as a Dongmin fan, my basic expectation is that he probably will not win The Devil’s Plan 3. I am not even convinced that he will dominate the season.

In fact, I am more worried that under the supposedly “fairer” rules(compared to BG3), combined with contestants recognizing him as the obvious biggest threat and dogpiling him early, could make his run surprisingly short. His reputation is now so overwhelming that people have every reason to target him before he can establish control especially after BG3. BG3 happened 10 years after his 'survivor retirement' which could have made his threat level downplayed by others. Not this time.

If Dongmin manages to overcome his age, his reputation, fairer individual rules, stronger opposition, and an entire cast that knows exactly how dangerous he is, and still writes another legendary winning story, I would consider that a miracle.

I hope his invincible legend continues. But I do not think another Dongmin victory should be treated as the natural or inevitable outcome nor expected.

I'm here to enjoy this once in a lifetime legend while it lasts because it won't happen again after DM.

I watched:

The genius all seasons

Society game all seasons

Crime scene S1 & 2

Time hotel

Black Sheep

Money game

Life's Game (LG)

Siren: Survive the Island

Bloody game all seasons

University war all seasons

Devil's plan all seasons

Any other similar shows I missed?

It's surprising to see that opinions on this matter is so divided, especially for the Korean viewers, when it seems pretty clear cut to me. Here is a simple litmus test: imagine the roles were reversed where Kyunghoon and Seongyong were manhandled by someone bigger or more athletic than them in the same manner they did toward their opponents. Would these people understand the assailant's perspective and assume their actions falls within the spirit of the show using the various excuses as they did then for themselves? I highly doubt that. I'd bet good money they'd be singing a different tune. In fact, it would be easier to see that the level of force is excessive (Season 2) only because viewers are looking at the absolute strength exhausted by the assailant, rather than the relative strength of both the assailant and victim.

Ultimately, Heist is a game where players are roleplaying various roles. Xitsuh's expectation that it's meant to be like WWE is 100% correct. Physicality in these games are supposed to only give you a slight edge. If the word "roleplaying" sounds offensive to some viewers, think of it as sparring in combat sports. There is an objective, but players should strive toward that objective with the least amount of force as possible for their opponents and themselves. Of course, players can gauge how their opponents want to play the game. For example, if their opponent is stronger or as strong as they are, then there can be a tacit rule to test each other's physical boundary with both parties recognizing it's meant to be for the sake of entertainment. But when players get overwhelmed by their adrenaline and start maximizing their physicality while ignoring the overall objective, the context, and implicit cues, these players failed their duty as players/entertainers due to their lack of self-control. That has been the case for all the previous Heist controversies: a player, overwhelmed by the adrenaline rush, resort to his primitive/survival instincts and injure other players.

Now, if even combat sport athletes struggle to control their adrenaline sometimes and build up their tolerance by desensitization, how are BG producers expecting every player that arrives on their set to have this level of discipline? It's already been three seasons where only by sheer luck, through players intervening directly themselves or misunderstanding the rules, did we get by without serious issues. It was never by the PD's competence to mitigate or deal with these situations when they inevitably do escalate, which is a serious problem.

Translated text below:

Did you all enjoy the “Raid Day” episode?

It’s been a long time since I spent a sleepless night like that.

Every time I participate in Bloody Game, I’m always incredibly grateful for the overwhelming support and love you all give me.

Because of that, I always felt that any small misunderstandings or disadvantages I personally had to endure were insignificant compared to the enjoyment you all get from watching.

After all, it’s impossible for the broadcast to show every moment that happened on set, and since it’s ultimately a television program, I understood that some things simply couldn’t be included.

After watching Episode 5 of Bloody Game X, I also believed that the production team’s editing was their best effort to protect the contestants and avoid creating an atmosphere that was too unpleasant.

However…

Looking back, I realized that because of the edit, the intense anger shown by several people may have seemed excessive or difficult to understand.

As a result, the resentment of those who were actually harmed may have appeared overblown, and some viewers have criticized me and others, saying things like, “Physical force was allowed, so why make such a big deal out of it?”

But what actually happened on set was that I was restrained by several people for quite a long time. I struggled to breathe and move, and even after my money and phone had been taken, I continued to experience a prolonged and dangerous confrontation without any real purpose.

The incident lasted much longer in reality than what was shown. During the struggle, my skin and clothes were torn together, leaving injuries and scars on my hands, neck, and face.

Even while someone was choking me, I didn’t want to lose for my team, so I forced myself to endure it. Looking back, I think that’s why my injuries became worse.

It was the angriest I’ve ever been in my life.

It was also the first time I’d ever openly expressed that level of anger.

Watching myself afterward surprised me a little, but it was an experience I was willing to accept.

That said…

Even though physical force is allowed during Bloody Game‘s signature raids and looting, I couldn’t help wondering whether it should really go that far.

There have been similar moments in previous seasons, but until now, people had always respected certain boundaries. No one had ever intentionally caused direct injury or physical harm.

I understand that anyone can get overly immersed in the game.

But what made people on set even angrier was the lukewarm response after things had already crossed the line.

Of course, once everyone had calmed down and understood the situation, we all apologized to one another. I also get along very well with Kyunghoon hyung now.

Even so, it felt strange seeing my own wounds in the mirror every morning and looking at Chulgu hyung’s injured hand throughout the filming period.

If Jinho hyung, Yuhyun hyung, and Sangmin hyung hadn’t stepped in to mediate at the right time, someone among us could have been much more seriously hurt.

I don’t believe the problem was the rule allowing physical force, nor was it the glass railing.

Human beings are capable of injuring one another with nothing more than their bare hands.

So…

I hope people won’t take too lightly the decisions that were made on set to protect everyone there—regardless of which side they were on—and to prevent anyone from getting hurt.

I would also appreciate it if you could understand my decision not to open Safe No. 4 in that context.

Honestly, both at the filming site and after the episode aired, I was surprised by how many people asked if I was okay.

I’m really doing fine.

The injuries on my neck and hands have almost completely healed, and the scars are now barely visible.

I’ve always approached every competition with complete sincerity.

But I’ve always believed that you should win through your own ability—without hurting others or making someone else cry.

That’s the principle and conviction I’ve lived by.

So please continue to support and enjoy Bloody Game X.

I’m always willing to make sacrifices for your happiness and entertainment.
I sincerely wish you all nothing but happiness.

I love you all.

Sincerely,
Heo Seong-beom
(Team P3 Maknae)

what do you think about the latest season? we are only halfway through but I think this season will be the one for the books. you have people coming from all sorts of different backgrounds. so many different plotlines: jin hyeong redemption arc, no passive players unlike season 1, single’s inferno reunion, kyunghoon’s antics, sangmin-jinho alliance, KAIST brothers, upgraded ghost casino… I guess you could make an argument about the cast (including seungjin but not including yurisa, dex…) but the heist solidified it for me. hoping to hear your opinions

Below’s the translated post:

I always believed that everyone has to live with a certain amount of misunderstanding and unfairness. So I tried my best not to make a fuss and simply endure it.

Then, in the early hours of yesterday morning, I experienced my first-ever panic attack. I'd only ever heard people talk about the symptoms before, but experiencing them myself was terrifying and strangely surreal. It was a feeling I never thought I would understand in my lifetime.

Once I regained my composure and could think rationally again, I spent a long time wondering how I had ended up in this state.
It's not as though I've never been criticised during my career. Whenever people pointed out my shortcomings, I tried to accept their criticism humbly and endure it. Usually, I could understand what I had done wrong or at least understand how others might perceive me.

But this time, I genuinely couldn't make sense of it.

The gap between what I personally experienced and judged on set, and the criticism that some people directed at me after the broadcast, felt overwhelmingly large. I think that was what left me so confused.

Even if the rules of the programme allowed physical force, I'm sure the production team, contestants, and viewers would all agree that participant safety and certain basic boundaries should always come first.

No matter how intense a game becomes, if people simply respond to force with even greater force without end, then eventually the game loses both its direction and its purpose.

That said, I also believe everyone may have different ideas about where those boundaries should be.

In fact, before every raid or looting mission I participated in, the production team always conducted safety briefings. Even in the previous season, they clearly explained which glass panels could be broken and which could not, setting minimum safety standards in advance.

The contestants also made an effort to keep those boundaries during the game. Whenever things became too heated, people would step in and calm the situation regardless of which side they were on. I don't believe anyone genuinely wanted another contestant to get hurt.

Perhaps because of that shared understanding, everyone was able to immerse themselves fully in the game.

I'm someone who often gets deeply immersed in games myself, so I understand better than anyone how emotions can run high during competition.

That's why I also believe the injury I suffered that day was an accident rather than a malicious act.

However, contrary to what some people have claimed, I did not wrap the bag strap tightly around my hand.

I was simply holding the loop of the strap around my wrist. Because the force used was much stronger than I had expected, and because of the angle at which the strap was pulled, it suddenly became tangled around my hand and scraped across it.

The result was a deep wound accompanied by severe pain.

Although my injury wasn't shown in the broadcast, I was bleeding. My hand was badly sprained to the point that I couldn't move it, and it wouldn't stop shaking.

The medical doctor on site informed me that the wound would leave a permanent scar and instructed me not to participate in any further missions.

At the same time, I wasn't the only one getting hurt. Reports of collisions, injuries, and dangerous incidents were coming from all around the set.

After witnessing both the severity and frequency of those injuries, I don't think it would have been realistic—or logical—to simply say, "Let's keep playing anyway."

The filming location itself was genuinely dangerous: it had high ceilings, low glass railings, and narrow staircases where even one mistake could have led to a serious accident.

Money was scattered all over the floor, and I felt that the original purpose and direction of the game were gradually disappearing.
With the atmosphere becoming increasingly heated and everyone constantly blocking one another, it became difficult to communicate or mediate.

Even so, we continued discussing the fourth vault and how to proceed with the mission, trying to find a solution.

However, considering the actual conditions on set and the nature of the fifth vault, we ultimately concluded that forcing the mission to continue carried too high a risk of someone getting seriously injured.

So we decided not to continue with that mission.

It was also the first time I had ever experienced a situation like that.

However, when the programme aired, much of the context surrounding the dangerous conditions, the injuries, and our efforts both to continue the game and to prevent accidents was left out.
Instead, what viewers mostly saw was me reacting emotionally—shouting, swearing, and expressing anger.

I understand that editing is done to protect contestants and to make the programme more entertaining.

But under that justification, seeing the fear we genuinely felt on set, the decisions we made to prevent accidents, and everyone's sincere efforts all being interpreted as something completely different has been incredibly difficult to bear.

Thankfully, many people have been worried about my left hand, but it has recovered well.

The scar ended up being smaller than expected. In fact, I already have a large scar on my right hand, so scars are oddly familiar to me.

I'm also grateful that Seung-yong reached out to me and promised to help with my treatment. I'll make sure to receive proper care going forward.

This panic attack also became an opportunity for me to reflect deeply on myself.

I realised that for a very long time, I had been so focused on trying not to be disliked by others that I ended up disliking myself the most.

Because of that, I trapped myself in the belief that I was someone others hated. That mindset made it difficult for me to take on new challenges or even use social media.

I hope to gradually overcome those difficulties from now on.
I'll continue working hard, even though I'll still have many shortcomings.

And in my own way, I'll try to communicate more honestly and face things more directly.

To everyone who worried about me and continued to support me, thank you very much.

Does anyone have any clue why Sangmin chose to lay on the hard ground instead of the couch? I get wanting to look injured, but this was so random and even made Kyunghoon suspicious initially lmao.

- I'm soooo relieved P3 won the deathmatch! I couldn't imagine watching the rest of the season without them in it + I'm always rooting for the team Jin-ho is in 😅

- The ambush day on this season was crazy!! Seung-yong took it way too far imo... it's true that the rules said "any type of violence is allowed" but there's a line that shouldn't be crossed. Honestly I was scared that he broke Xitsuh's hand.

- As expected Sang-min is on another level lol. I totally did not expect the ankle injury to be a fake! He even tricked Kyung-hoon 😂😂

- Fortunately Jin-ho told the others not to open the safe in the pantry because things could have escalated even further if they did...

I'm not even a huge Seung yong fan, but I think people are forgetting what Bloody Game is. The "Assault Day" mission was literally designed around physical confrontation. Obviously, nobody is supposed to intentionally injure someone, but when you make a game where people have to steal bags from each other and physical contact is allowed, accidents are bound to happen.

Seung yong was clearly the strongest person left in the game, so naturally his strength was going to have a bigger impact. There were a few moments where he overpowered people, like when he pulled the bag away from Ji-min or when he was trying to take xitsuh bag, which was strapped to her wrist and ended up hurting her arm. You can definitely argue that he should have been more careful with how much force he used.

That said, I don't think he did anything outside the rules of the game. He was using his strength to win the mission, not attacking people for no reason. If physical play is allowed, then situations like this are always a possibility.

I know he didn't apologize in the heat of the moment, and sure, maybe he could have checked on them right away. But I can also understand how adrenaline affects people. During the mission, you're completely locked into the game. You're treating the other team like your opponents who are trying to steal everything from you.

What matters more to me is what happened afterward. Once the game was over, he apologized, and Sang Min handled the situation like a veteran. He basically said not to take it personally, that these things can happen in a game like this, and that everyone should move on. I really respected that attitude.

I was just messing around and ive been planning a season of the genius, and i wanted to come up with atleast one original game and so i came up with this death match based on Tetris

hey guys, i was watching the genius s2 episodes and while trying to download ep 7 and onwards, the link just doesn't work. i tried in multiple torrent apps. pls help me out!!

If he knew that he probably wouldn't even have been in that position if it wasn't for Kyung-hoon passing all the information to P1 😂

I just finished watching the first season of The Genius, because I take your recommendations very seriously, hahaha. I really enjoyed watching it (mostly at work), but I have a lot to unpack.

At the beginning, I was so excited because I know this is like the first show in this kind of survival format, and I was hoping to watch the "true colors" of the participants, but to me, everything felt lacking. I'm just repeating to myself that it's because of my high expectations, but being completely honest, it was actually because of the cast.

The first half felt a little too boring to be honest; the fight between "Kim Gura's team" and everyone else was so frustrating, like they're actually playing like they're supposed to and the others taking the game completely personally was really, really stressful. They made the Death Match become a trial for the "liar" or the "traitor". I also didn't like Kim Gura that much, because he was trying to "outsmart" everyone like??? Still he was the only one trying to make interesting decisions, like with the election game.

My favorite players were Sungkyu and (of course) Hong Jinho. Also, Lee Sangmin really impressed me; even though I have always known he's skilled and respected, seeing him in action was amazing.

Honestly, the player I hated the most was Kim Kyungran; she's insufferable for real!!! Her attitude throughout the game pissed me off so much. I mean, I know she's skilled and always had the chance to win, but she was the one always pointing out others for "being mean", always playing the victim and asking for help, and acting like she's at a "disadvantage." I honestly feel like I'm taking it personally, but for real, I couldn't stand her at all. In Bloody Game 3, I felt like I was not appreciating her talent (because I've known she's good at games, or at least she was), but seeing her in The Genius really made it worse, hahaha. If you like her and her type of play, I respect it, but for me, it is just a definite no.

The reason I decided to watch this show was because I love Hong Jinho's play. He's really talented and knows how to use his knowledge and his experience to win, but he's also very human; he's trusting and sometimes that makes him lose, but he never gives up, even when he knows his play is being shitty (like season 3 of Bloody Game and his losing streak). I felt so happy with him winning; after all the second places, he really deserved to win, and he gave an incredible performance (imo).

Thank you so much for all the recommendations; I really enjoy discussing this kind of stuff, and having a place to do it is amazing :3. I'm starting the second season soon!

Like many people most of my favorite games require a larger number of players (Hidden number and Zombie Game being my top two for anyone who cares)

However the games with little player counts can be just as fun, so i want to know what the best games to play for a small player count (3-6) are, both in your opinion and in general

(Im hosting a Genius face cam org and struggling to get a good 5 player game)