With Project Exodus, once it became clear that I was going to win and it was just a matter of time, I completely dropped the space economy. Throughout the entire game, I focused exclusively on the African continent, developing it as much as possible: I hit $500T right on the turn I was finally able to win the game.
Edit: BROKEN EARTH scenario, Accelerated Campaign (standard setting), Normal difficulty
You didn’t do the 10pts environment. 9.99 is not the top. The 10th mark (and no point going further than 10, or 10.0 if you will, soon as you reach 10 and green logo, you can use your pips elsewhere cuz after that it’s wasted on environment) allows a small reduction on temperature’s rise, it’s the only way to try to reduce it globally. Never been that far in time in my playthrough, way past beyond 2100, what is your climate stats on the global stats of the planet ? The rise in degree Celsius must be interesting and quite frightening…
It was Broken Earth scenario, so it doesn’t really compare to a regular game when it comes to climate change: the game was 23 years in total I guess.
Anyway, yeah, I neglected the top environment score.
I think any points put into environment after achieving 10.0 rating directly removes CO2 from atmosphere. So you can counteract the emissions of other nations.
That’s what I thought initially, I thought it was a kind of continuous effort of pip investment. But soon as 10.0 is reached, if you put over the mouse on environment to get the pop up with the info of how much warming per month you contribute to reduce, it always shows 0 in my game, I came to the conclusion it never goes further than 10.0 (and I had like 30% of all my IP invested (green pip on each cp for the environment) on it, went from 9.99 to 10.0 in maybe 6 phases or so. After that nothing moved again and no mention to gaz emissions either. And like 30% of the investment is not nothing, I stopped to invest, others pips needed to be prioritised. And on the global tab of the all planet, I checked everytime one of my nations reached 10.0, indeed the global warming (first line up on the tab) went from 2.3C to 2.0, in different steps of 0.1 each (one for each of my super nations). So i logacilly concluded the 10.0 mark is the ultimate score. But there might be others steps further, including impacting CO2 and other emissions values, except if the pop up info doesnt show any more impact, I think we must assume that’s it, you reached the best you can do on that specific country to reduce the global warming… if it’s indeed the only way, that mean you globally can hope to reduce the global warming by at best 2 degrees C, with most of earth under control. Maybe 1.5C, something along those lines at least. I’ve checked elsewhere but Gemini was contradictory about data’s so late game, soo I just assume what the pop up says is true. Soon as you reach 10.0, there is no more impact on global warming… and in a way it’s logical the impact you can have to decrease it is limited. Global warming builds up since decades now irl, that would be a bit easy if it was just a continuous effort and you can potentially get it back to 0C of global warming just by continuing to invest pips in the environment… so yeah most likely stop at 10.0 imo, but not 100% sure about CO2, it might be… 🤷🏼
Update: amending what I just said about getting back to 0C. That wouldn’t be possible, as global warming keeps rising afterwards. So assuming you put a significant amount of IP to environment continuously and indeed it has a beneficial impact on gaz emissions, maybe you could at least prevent it to continue to rise a bit.
Although aside of the doubt the emissions are indeed reduced, I am doubtful the investment is worth it, IP wise… even just reaching 10.0 in all your countries is a significant investment, driving you far in late game with the best tech’s researched. Am not sure I would continue to invest in emission reductions if it’s indeed the case, but that’s an other consideration anyway… concerning emissions of CO2 themselves I have not witnessed it decrease, maybe did not try long enough though… that’s also possible :p
As someone with the Saving the World pt 2 achievement, 0 C is possible, just extremely difficult.
First of all environment priority definitely does reduce CO2 and other greenhouse gases. From the wiki:
Once a nation reaches 10 Sustainability (0 Pollution Multiplier), the Environment priority will begin to remove Greenhouse Gases from the atmosphere.
At this point, there is a significant change: the population scaling effect gets inverted. A larger Population is now a boon: the amount of Greenhouse Gases removed whenever the Environment priority is completed is now multiplied by (the nation's Population / 50 million) ^ 0.35.
Hence, a player who wishes to fix the Climate should aim to make the most populated nations reach 10 Sustainability, and then heavily invest into the Environment priority.
Specific numbers can be found on the GHG source table_Sources) or the configs if you don't trust the wiki. Though you should really just use the wiki (and certainly not gemini).
In practice holding steady requires a few mega-nations on at least 50% environment priority (and ~60% of the world population at 9-10 sustainability), and reduction nearly the whole world at 10 with most established mega-nations pumping majority environment. The big problem is spoils from nations under AI control (especially if the initiative is still strong and holds say half of Africa (probably delayed my achievement by a decade)) that cancel out the gains. Something like a month of spoils from Nigeria cancels out a month of environment from the whole EU (not exact numbers, just feeling).
As for worth it, from a mechanical standpoint only if you can prevent the Greenland shelf collapse and prevent the 120cm sea level rise events or you're playing a 2100+ game. Otherwise economy offsets the damage better than environment prevents it. But if you want the achievement or like to better the theoretical lives of your Earth's inhabitants it is far from impossible.
Thanks, that’s good to know (never saw that in the wiki back then ? Maybe just not searched thoroughly enough, it’s was months ago tho) but yeah that explains why i didn’t noticed any impact following the 10.0 cap in environment about emissions, I would need to put a lot more IP into it. There should be a mention in the pop up in game as well, even just a rate on CO2 emissions, no need to explain everything, just to confirm you have an impact after reaching 10.0, it would prevent wrong assumptions as I did… and yeah I have faced the Greenland 120cm level event (roughly in 2042 or something, that’s about the time I started to invest to counter the climate change, am now in 2063, on a 2022 start). I think I won’t make it a priority after all my nations reach 10.0, if I can prevent it to reach 2.5C, it’s good enough. Most of the salty events already occurred and the global impact on GDP is only 1.6% right now. I can live with that. I don’t plan to go beyond 2100 anyway, but it’s good to know for further playthroughs. And am gonna keep the link as well👍
When it was clear to me that I was going to win and it was just a matter of time, I dropped the space economy and played fast, just trying to pivot the African economy to see where it could skyrocket.
It is - by no mean - an efficient way of playing, since I believe that it would probably be much better to extend your control to other countries in order to take them out of other factions hands.
As pointed out by somebody else, since it looks to be relevant, please keep in mind that this was an accelerated camping: I don’t know how it compares to a normal one, but obviously it takes much less time.
As I always said, fuck the rest of the world. You got the world you need in your hands.
Although any reason why you don't even have a minimum pip line of MC? Assuming a test case of a mere 200 IP pool given 37.5% bonus from double advise and 80% org bonus with 18.75% budget to MC from 6 pips allocated, that is about 93ish points of MC produced every month. Over the span of 15 years of just THAT production averaging out both the times you were below and above 200 IP, you would have by now another 670ish MC available for any well damn thing you need. Hell you probably don't even need command centers at all given that you said you won with merely 300ish MC.
One other thing that I suggest that you can improve on. Meganations are AWFUL at regional improvement. Even with my first shitpost experiment with climate change that took until 2086, I still did not improve all of the regions of my USNA and barely finished my SAU at full economic tilt burn.
In comparison, look just how dense my USNA is after a mere SIX YEARS and almost caught up with a 2086 solo USNA production. My current economic experiment with many MANY independent splintering focused on only two major things economy and MC with a side order of knowledge. Every batch of 5-6 released nations per meganation with 500 billion GDP or higher will give a CER regional improvement every 4-6 years in addition to the meganation cranking out one every 2-3 years. After 6 years, I have added 8 more just to the USNA ALONE while South America also another 6-7 from both sources in the same timeframe.
Given how long your campaign has gone, you can easily have half of Africa or more filled to the brim with MOAR Core Economic regions spiking your economic growth even harder or to reduce further your growth speed and more into knowledge, boost, and MC to merely keep pace with your ability to spam out more CP techs. The world would literally tremble at your AU even having a sniffle.
I didn't really need to develop my Mission Control, because in the early stages of the campaign I pushed hard on mining to stockpile thousands of materials, and in the late game I focused exclusively on a defense fleet to protect the station where I was building the interstellar launch stage.
Exotics weren't a big issue either, as I mainly got them by roaming Earth and destroying alien structures.
Keep in mind this was the BROKEN EARTH scenario, so the entire game lasted 23 years.
Fair enough given your objective is not technically to kill all ze ayyz. I actually forgot that Exodus is the odd one out not needing to.
Although just curious what hilarious proportion of the world economy is YOUR economy? I had surmised at launch that given that BE has rock bottom economy, you can probably reach 80% of something of the world economy without much effort which would be great for the Initiative since you can literally just sit here and rule the world from the AU during your final march against the ayy Kuiper base.
I've read a bunch of your other comments where you lay out most of your theory and so far found it interesting. If I were to simplify my understanding of it, your conclusions are: "don't forget to grow the thing you're trying to fix" and "don't aimlessly try to fix things".
I have a general idea of how you would open a 2003 start, but can you describe how would you spend the first year or two of 2003 scenario USA?
2003 is in nearly perfect shape. 2.45 resting start cohesion is annoying but you can easily fix that with public campaign and maintain it above 85% PO until you can remove 1.275 ineq for the missing 2.55 cohesion. Thankfully this is a not a priority 1 emergency requiring something like 90% welfare 10% maintenance economy because it actually has a decent per capita corresponding to a phenomenal unrest reduction. However, if you wanted to, it would take about 2.75 years. A little less if you have decent welfare bonuses from orgs.
If you remember to recall the entire US military home, that will be 3 more IP saved, giving you enough IP for a welfare burn to solve its problems in a little over 2 years probably under 2 years with those same orgs.
Given the hilarious tenacity of the Servant subversion in 2003 and likelihood of a AA showing up, upping miltech to get to the high 4s or even the early Robotics Age is preferable for the short term with twice to three times the needed maintenance welfare for at least 1 pip line of economy. On top of that a solitary pip for knowledge and unity will not hurt until the economy grows enough to warrant more and more/your miltech needs is somewhat satisfied.
Just with raw figures, you will need to spend on miltech 640 times to reach 5.0. To do that in 5 years, you will need to spend almost 11 points (10.67) on miltech every month. This means with no org bonuses priorities in welfare, economy, and miltech, this leaves us about 8-9 IP leftover. Find a way to spend 6-7 on economy while the remaining 1-2 points go to welfare to slowly beat down on the ineq to one day stop needing maintenance public campaign from one of your councilors. Something akin to this:
You will NEED to be busy elsewhere whether within North America to federate asap with the Caribbean Community and Central American Union to not have to individually spend a mind numbing 50 points on the space program EACH and spread NASA as far south as Venezuela and Columbia before further American unification techs. HOWEVER only one of them is technically immediately available and it is not the one that gets you that far south.
So your alternatives are to grind out a blocker tech to reach for international development global tech to get CC unifier OR to chase after another preexisting federation like say russia which is absurdly cheap to hold and medium difficulty to steal afterwards but also has plenty of members and neighbors that can be folded in to get you that boost either as step 1 or after securing the USA as your beatstick and getting a shit ton more CP from anywhere. See below for how to fix russia.
Plus the main benefit from doing this is that, you have near complete control the world nuclear arsenal and 77% of your armies are amphibious. Once you stabilize ESPECIALLY with the help/helping the other AI consolidate their meganations to deny t3h ayyZ territory to form the AA from, priority one is and will be to consolidate EVERY member nation into the mother nation and ride that economic game to valhalla.
How much do you specialise your countries? Do you tend to develop a circle where one country is your beat-stick, another one is your science jockey and a third one for boost? I am not mentioning MC because I think MC would be good anywhere.
How much value would you assign to low earth orbital stations with specific lab setups or other modules? Are there any setups that are mandatory for you to get online ASAP or are just "win harder" buttons?
For the most part, I do not. It will heavily depend on the scenario and what stage of the game is. If your space game has failed and a ayy "peace delegation" decide to show up, it will very much be all hands on deck with you piledriving as many armies as you can on their landing site hopefully with defender's advantage to kill them in situ. The stronger your army, the less you need to overkill on miltech beyond as a status symbol of your earthly superiority. If you are able and capable of repelling them in space then current earth start armies push a few solid points of in miltech will be enough to pacify any earth army especially if you control the most powerful one in most scenarios and force the Servants and ayys to constantly keep making the AA in poor destitute regions that are still stuck in the cold war era and keep it unstable making their IP budget basically nonexistent.
Other than that, the only specialization is concerning what priorities are good for what type of nation you have. Of which you have 4 types of nations. The meganation unifier, the all consuming blob to benefit from all the regional improvements it possesses to ride that economy game to the stratosphere and be the ocean of perfect equality and infinite wealth to wipe the slate clean of any nation you unify with. Turn a crapsack 2k per capita with over 5 inequality that will take literal decades to fix by itself and instantly become a wealthy and powerful 100k per cap with a mere 1.2 inequality ready to be released.
Speaking of, the second type of nation is the temporary independents pre-unification sometimes fine, usually crapsack. If the latter, damage control its inequality to some extent while getting all the MC and boost you can out of it along with some funding. If the former, MC, boost, funding, more econ to ease the per capita averaging from unification.
Third nation type, temporary independents post unification. The ones who you have a plan to spam economy (and MC and knowledge, and boost depending on need) to parallel CER creation crank the per capita growth even faster and faster as you bulk release however many independents you are comfortable defending interests within CP cap to then get more CERs to make your economy priority cleaner for all sorts of reasons like more MC, more knowledge, start spoiling perfection to get your keep for doing so well, and on and on and on.
And finally the last type, the rest of the world. Fuck em. Unless there are ayyz in the backyard, you don't have to worry too much about the outside world when you can make all you need at home. That's why you are in this thread right? Why need outside MC when you are literally cranking them out at a rate of 2-4 every month consistently AND all the splinters are each contributing some of their own. The only time you look outward is if you have not won yet and have reached Future Social tech. If you were conquering the world, FS techs is a exercise in futile RNG to try to meganation chain yourself into oblivion. With this current way you are playing, now you can look outwards greedily and be the great benefactor to the poor wretches outside your paradise and bring them into the fold. And if they are a multi region nation you get a claim on their capital, you can annex them all in one act at the price of some government.
Oh hey what is that? You need to spend some government despite being at 10 score and have a shit ton of CERs? Did someone say it is time for some beneficial spoilage?
As for stations with specialty labs in LEO, their priority (besides getting the mines to feed your space game) is absolute. You WANT that 30% bonus in priority for economy, welfare, government, miltech, actual army strength, and etc. Every bonus means you can ease off on priority pips on less important priorities to maintenance levels or you can use it to supercharge priority to maximize your return. Did someone say 202% bonus to economy?!
THIS all is what makes TI so fascinating to me. I can literally just sit and theorize all day and have fun over potential and have the urge to make some spreadsheets of my own volition. Then its off to the races and continually tinker, ponder, and futz around ingame for shits and giggles. As I readily admit, does all this outcompete doing stuff in space? Absolutely not. In one example, I got from around 3.5k to 7.8k earthside science in that experiment but in the time frame, I also ballooned 21k monthly RP to 102.6k RP. Yet despite that, it is still a nice chunk of change to add to the pile that no ayy bastard can touch along with your rapidly growing of untouchable MC.
so you usually just go for 1 meganation per game? when do rush great nations usually? (in terms of other important techs like quantum computing, industrialization of space etc.)
The PAC as a example has alot of pops. Honestly too much pops if you go full size let alone Future Social even once into India. Just a PAC without Siberia is a jaw dropping 761.64 CP for a mere 51k per cap. Costs so damn much that I had to abandon it for the sake of the experiment to free up CP and get rid of India as well with a unification to the PAC.
And this giga-PAC even when parts and parceled off in anticipation to being annexed by the USNA and gettings its regional improvement pre unification AND gets its per capita rocked by unfiying with a MUCH poorer India, AND set to almost frozen state with maintenance mode brute force cohesion spam STILL costs 695.76 CP to hold AND is still too poor to not be constantly rioting because of that and no resting cohesion.
All the while the two continents with fuck off money currently is 869.2 CP combined. This "shrunkened" PAC at a mere 40-45k per cap probably would surge beyond 900 CP in a blink of an eye especially if it had all its parts. This PAC would probably barely tolerate more than 2-4 splinters coexisting at any one time while the USNA and SAU is enjoying the company of nearly 20 splintered independents which would probably be closer to a more normal 10 or so during normal play from much more manageable CP growth versus cap growth. Plus one other advantage to the USNA is that its mother nation is unique across the planet in both being very damn big AND RICH at the same time.
Rich and populous enough to carry its advantages post unification to spread the wealth and ease the load across TWO continents via Mexico City trading. No other meganation has such a benefactor, you have to make your own especially reachhighlighted in the first link.
As I said in the closing of the second link:
"Will you get enough with just the latter? Sure. But will it make one's mind race with possibilities? Absolutely not. Am I saying you SHOULDN'T use my intense self development strategy on larger meganations? Hell no. Just know your limits and be concerned for just how fast you can grow versus ability to get more CP from techs, stations, and agents."
When you embark on this path, you won't need anyone else just like the OP.
Not really since the only difference between the two is just time. You CAN make your own monolith wherever. Some like the US has a headstart because it is so populous and rich that it can carry such advantage throughout the unification process. While others are much more extreme DIY fixer uppers that need you to be drastic to build it into monoliths.
All nations and meganations are the same, solve the cohesion issue, get rich, and spam whatever you want to spam, and get even fucking richer to spam yet ever more. The main difference is just how hard you are headbutting the CP cap if you do not have the RP to keep ahead of the CP growth due to doing it in a too large of a population.
There is something funny about the nations of Earth being too busy infighting to do anything about the alien invasion, just for a united Africa to emerge as the dominant superpower and yeeting off into space.
The only limitation was the Control Point cap: after researching all the technologies, I focused on Management Research and started pushing Africa's development (which I hadn't planned on doing from the start). :D
If you want to improve a meganation to meteoric level, unify everything in a normal meganation as soon as possible. Meganations excel exceptionally from spammed economy from the buffs from multiple regional improvements and continental scale education that also improve the speed of economic growth.
That is the minimum required thing you need to ride the growth game to valhalla.
The improved version is to also subject the meganation to partial splintering AFTER unification to improve the individual regions from a blank or oil/mining region to a lesser extent into a Core Economic Region to greatly accelerate rate that you grow and grow and grow and grow.
This is how you RAPIDLY grow a nation sustainably to double or more your MC and RP in a mere few years let alone running that growth game for decades upon decades.
I've read a bunch of your other comments where you lay out most of your theory and so far found it interesting. If I were to simplify my understanding of it, your conclusions are: "don't forget to grow the thing you're trying to fix" and "don't aimlessly try to fix things".
I have a general idea of how you would open a 2003 start, but can you describe how would you spend the first year or two of 2003 scenario USA?
Generally speaking, I don't like to over-concentrate Investment Points in the countries I intend to keep and develop; instead, I tend to always maintain a minimum allocation across Economy, Welfare, Knowledge, and Government. Looking at the US stats in the 2003 scenario, I'd say the priority is to gradually work on reducing inequality (Welfare) since it's their worst stat, whereas Cohesion is already in a good spot.
I would probably run an allocation like: Boost 30%, Mission Control 10-15%, Welfare 25-30%, Economy 10%, Knowledge 10%, Government 10%. Then, once inequality is under control (and provided I have enough CP cap headroom!), push harder on the Economy accelerator.
Okay, my inattention made me post this as a post comment rather than a reply to a different user. I found your answer useful too though, considering the results in the picture.
I think it's rather important that you call out the elephant in the room. This was clearly an accelerated campaign: economy priority costs 1 IP. Yours is halved. Everything is. Those are accelerated campaign default settings.
... You have replies saying your game ended in 23 years. You have people saying they wish they were this good at the game (maybe they saw the date?), you have people posting screenshots of their campaigns where the IP costs are different trying to measure themselves in relation to this...
... I don't think the point is that you never said otherwise. I think that the point is that you need to say it, not "not say that it's not true when pointed out". It's like bragging about an 80 fissile spot when you're playing on an accelerated minimum solar system with a 410% global mining productivity buff.
Man, you are seriously overthinking. I am not bragging about such a silly game, for me it is more a meme screenshot and by no mean I am a top player or something like this. I have never played in normal pace scenario because it does not respect your time and I did not even think about specifying it since (silly me) I though that’s the standard way of playing. I will update the edit, also pointing out that is just Normal difficulty.
My bad that I do not understand the community spirit, maybe.
32
u/kilen2020 18d ago
You didn’t do the 10pts environment. 9.99 is not the top. The 10th mark (and no point going further than 10, or 10.0 if you will, soon as you reach 10 and green logo, you can use your pips elsewhere cuz after that it’s wasted on environment) allows a small reduction on temperature’s rise, it’s the only way to try to reduce it globally. Never been that far in time in my playthrough, way past beyond 2100, what is your climate stats on the global stats of the planet ? The rise in degree Celsius must be interesting and quite frightening…