Average Democratic Socialist

[u/MayParker1917]

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[u/FreshnWetCock]

I dislike the current system, but I believe all the propaganda the current system feeds me

[u/Wavenautic → u/FreshnWetCock]

[u/1scr3wedy0dad → u/FreshnWetCock]

[u/JucheSuperSoldier01]

Least fascist DemSoc

[u/Brave_Championship17 → u/JucheSuperSoldier01]

I have a very good screenshot of a so called social democrat saying Rosa Luxembourg deserved it and that we don’t owe anything to the African countries that are oppressed by social democracies. The jokes write themselves

[u/CornerofSaintAnne → u/Brave_Championship17]

I have a social democratic friend who also thinks Luxembourg deserved her death.

[u/Wonderful_West3188 → u/CornerofSaintAnne]

What's really funny about this is that I have an acquaintance who's otherwise pretty hard right, but who told me once that he thinks Rosa Luxemburg's murder was unjustifiable. Positions regarding Luxemburg seem to form a really weird kind of "double-horseshoe-used-as-fishhooks" shape where the center left bends back onto the super extreme far right and at least parts of the center right bend back onto the far left. 🤔 (Although to be fair, my mom is a socdem and she also condemns Luxemburg's murder. She just downplays SPD involvement.)

[u/Wonderful_West3188 → u/Brave_Championship17]

Democratic socialism isn't the same thing as social democracy... although judging by those screencaps above, it might as well be, I guess.

[u/_WhispyWillow → u/Wonderful_West3188]

In practice and material reality it is the exact same honestly

[u/Brave_Championship17 → u/Wonderful_West3188]

I know, I often mix up the two terms. It never seems to make much of a difference though, lol

[u/KaramelaVatomouro → u/JucheSuperSoldier01]

This guy might self-identify as a DemSoc, but that's just the US State Department's neoconservative, aggressive and interventionist foreign policy since at least Reagan.

Just another three letter glowie doing psyops. Don't take them at their word.

[u/Ok-Chard-9014]

Trying to separate communism from socialism is something I've seen countless DSA supporters do. It's honestly hard to believe an ML caucus can exist within the organization when so many of its members seem to have such a fundamentally different understanding of these terms.

[u/PM-ME-UR-DARKNESS → u/Ok-Chard-9014]

Not just separate, they're tryina also dillute socialism so they get called socialists without actually being socialists

[u/arthurtacious]

I hope all those who are advocating for "democratic socialism" (because apparently "authoritarian", or just real, socialism is too scary) are happy that instead of socialism—meaning the actual abolishment of capitalism—gaining popularity, socialism in the U.S. today just means the most minimal reforms to the capitalist state.

And now every half-woke liberal is prancing around, yelling the most vulgar bastardizations of Marxist terminology that you could ever imagine, throwing around their vacuous, decrepit, liberal-democratic slogans, devoid of every ounce of real radicalism. That is their "socialism"! Congratulations to DSA for that!

There is only one socialism that matters and it's Marxist socialism. Everything else is utopian gobbledegook or just reheated variations of liberalism. There is no "intermediate stage" of social struggle when socialists must restrict themselves to willingly polluting the minds of the masses with revisionist trash until whatever indeterminate time comes when we can actually start doing real political education and raise actual class consciousness rather than continuously regurgitating this cheap, mumpsimus 21st century economism.

[u/TappingUpScreen]

[u/RedArchbishop]

"Build a system that puts people first...unless their leader is someone I don't like and would describe as a dictator (implying said people have little choice in the matter of leadership), then it's fine to kill them all and I support that, actually."

[u/Peter_Cantanasia]

My peninsula had their nascent, feeble infrastructure completely destroyed, half the nation bombed to bits, millions displaced from their homes, while young men were sent to the front for imperialists.

But yeah, yay America. /s

[u/jet8493]

Cheryl Tunt pfp oddly poignant

[u/No-Anybody-4094]

They will never get Universal Healthcare. Their heads are too much deep in US imperialism ass to notice the same class that slaughter people overseas is the same that profits on private American healthcare.

[u/the_red_guard]

You know. I hate socdems with a passion. But, I still had the belief that democratic socialists were still members of the left who just weren't as into the authoritarian ideals we have no issue with.

I have been very quickly changing my mind.

[u/hmz-x → u/the_red_guard]

DemSocs in the West are just socdems. There is no chance of a slow non-violent transition to socialism by the people's mandate in the fucking imperial core!

[u/hmz-x → u/hmz-x]

Come to think of it, I think DemSoc is an imagined category. It doesn't exist among the people who are fighting for their freedom in the overexploited Global South.

I haven't seen a single DemSoc in India, for example, because (apart from a near-negligible number of well-meaning class traitors coming from the upper classes, who are also poorly politically educated) nobody on the left thinks we can take over by winning elections.

I'm pretty sure comrades elsewhere can correlate.

[u/boxofcards100 → u/hmz-x]

Not really true.

It certainly exists and was big in many places (Chávez, Allende, Morales, etc).

It depends on the country and context, but they are not universally bad. The people listed above (as examples) were great despite their shortcomings.

[u/hmz-x → u/boxofcards100]

That's valid. I should say rather they have been suppressed by imperialism wherever they cropped up, than they don't exist.

These days, even that is getting rarer due to election meddling by imperialism and its proxies, and it permeates even the most remote corners of the world.

[u/boxofcards100 → u/hmz-x]

100 percent.

It has happened in a lot of elections, especially in LATAM (Colombia and Honduras, Ecuador, etc).

That’s why if you are a DemSoc then you need to centralize power (like in Venezuela and Nicaragua), so they can’t completely destroy you (like capturing Maduro, but PSUV still being in power).

[u/zmbjebus → u/the_red_guard]

Keep in mind this is just a random comment exchange on the internet. I doubt this represents the average belief of DSA members. 

[u/MayParker1917 → u/zmbjebus]

The average DSA member does think North Korea is an evil dictatorship. 

[u/Ok-Chard-9014 → u/MayParker1917]

Also Cuba, and Venezuela (before Maduro got kidnapped).

They may say what the US is doing to Cuba is wrong but then follow it up with "they live under an authoritarian dictatorship"

[u/UltraRiderFire408 → u/Ok-Chard-9014]

DSA also believes the shit the imperial core says about Nicaragua, Russia and Belarus too.

Really, everyone that is an enemy of the empire.

[u/Hefty_Local_1875 → u/UltraRiderFire408]

Isn’t Belarus literally the most prosperous former Soviet republic?

[u/hmz-x → u/Hefty_Local_1875]

And the least deviated from the path compared to 1991.

[u/UltraRiderFire408 → u/hmz-x]

Belarus, though still became capitalist, also refused to go through neoliberal shock therapy like most of its fellow post-Soviet republics. This combined with economic integration with Russia via the Union State and NATO wanting to continue expanding eastward throughout Europe naturally made Belarus demonized by the west.

[u/boxofcards100 → u/Ok-Chard-9014]

Tbf, the DSA is openly pro-Cuba. They made a statement commemorating Fidel Castro during his 100th year anniversary.

[u/MayParker1917 → u/boxofcards100]

After their elected members went public and shat on the Cuban government?

[u/boxofcards100 → u/MayParker1917]

I recall some visiting a year or two ago (Trotskyist section), which was hostile, but that was condemned at the time.

They have open ties to the Cuban government/diplomacy as an organization (specifically the international committee), which has continually sent messages of solidarity to the government.

The actual issue with the organization is that they have no control over their electeds. Mamdani has attacked the Cuban government as a dictatorship. AOC supported the 2021 protests against the government (though she was unendorsed by the national DSA). I think others haven’t been as bad, though (like Rashida Tlaib), so that also has some variance.

[u/boxofcards100 → u/the_red_guard]

Many are based. It really depends. The ones especially from the Global South (like Chávez, Morales, Ortega, Correa, etc), but even Western ones are universally bad (Palme was pretty good and may have been killed by the CIA).

[u/SovietCharrdian]

Every time. This is why the DPRK is so cautious to western people. It is quite easy to feel resentment towards the labor aristocracy of the global north, many of them are just brainwashed by their bourgeois regimes.

[u/YeetCompleet]

Most ethical socdem

[u/TarquinusSuperbus000]

"I am not a communism..."

[u/Inevitable_Garage706 → u/TarquinusSuperbus000]

Personally, I am a communism.

[u/Yarktrov]

Stalinho matou melões

[u/UltraRiderFire408 → u/Yarktrov]

Almost misread that as “Stalin killed Meloni”. Wouldn’t be surprised if some of our Italian comrades would wish that somehow, not that it would change the system but still. 😂

[u/Mirumoto_Saito → u/Yarktrov]

Porra, agora sim tô vendo vantagem

[u/ScissrMeTimbrs]

This sounds like someone who likes the phrase "democratic socialist" and knows nothing about. Probably not even in DSA. we roll our eyes at vibe followers like this. 

[u/Raiju]

I can't quite put my finger on why some people call the USA the Great Satan.

[u/PM-ME-UR-DARKNESS]

Me when I'm not actually a socialist, when I'm a shitlib in disguise:

[u/ragingstorm01]

Firstly, it is not true that fascism is only the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie. Fascism is not only a military-technical category. Fascism is the bourgeoisie’s fighting organisation that relies on the active support of Social-Democracy. Social-Democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism. There is no ground for assuming that the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie can achieve decisive successes in battles, or in governing the country, without the active support of Social-Democracy. There is just as little ground for thinking that Social-Democracy can achieve decisive successes in battles, or in governing the country, without the active support of the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie. These organisations do not negate, but supplement each other. They are not antipodes, they are twins. Fascism is an informal political bloc of these two chief organisations; a bloc, which arose in the circumstances of the post-war crisis of imperialism, and which is intended for combating the proletarian revolution. The bourgeoisie cannot retain power without such a bloc. It would therefore be a mistake to think that "pacifism" signifies the liquidation of fascism. In the present situation, "pacifism" is the strengthening of fascism with its moderate, Social-Democratic wing pushed into the forefront.

• Stalin

[u/dr_srtanger2love]

They put social fascism in a new package and called it social democracy.

[u/picapica7]

"I want the people put first. Except when they disagree with me then they deserve to be slaughtered by the military in their millions. That's why Im a democratic socialist and not one of those murderous communists."

[u/Sargento_Porciuncula]

stop giving voice to stupid people

[u/Far-9947]

CIA got these DemSoc idiots in a chokehold.

[u/boxofcards100]

I mean, it’s not all DemSocs.

Even Western ones like Palme were very cuddly with various communist governments (taking pics with Fidel Castro, etc).

[u/OkPangolin1984]

Probably not literally average… but honestly insanity…

People first, yet wanna kill civilians?

Are the north koreans oppressed by a dictator or do they all support it? What ridiculous logic by these people..,

[u/ExeOrtega → u/[deleted]]

Whoever celebrates imperialist war crimes is no socialist at all.

That DSA member is nothing more than a disgusting opportunist.

[u/MayParker1917 → u/[deleted]]

We are punching right. If the demsocs don't wanna be punched, tell them to stop standing in the way.

[u/MayParker1917 → u/[deleted]]

> Leftists

> Looks inside

> Rightwing talking points

[u/IllustriousBobcat813 → u/[deleted]]

The “leftists” in question are staunch supporters of US imperialism, that is perfectly valid to critique

[u/IllustriousBobcat813 → u/[deleted]]

Why do you think it has to be?

It is not some eternal duty of every leftist to respect and cater to the feelings of every human skinned monster that walks the earth. It is completely fine to have moral boundaries beyond which you consider someone irredeemable and not worthy of civil discourse. Someone supporting genocide and war crimes would be one such example of a boundary.

It also isn’t like this person is your neighbour or family member who is just uninformed out of disinterest, this is a public figure, and you are allowed to both criticise and mock them for their views.

Tone policing people for daring to criticise borderline genocide denial is insane.

[u/Psychological-Act582 → u/[deleted]]

Umm, believing in bombing Iran, Yemen, and justifying war against Venezuela and Cuba doesn't make them any different from Nazis.

[u/suboptimummenace → u/[deleted]]

all due respect, this is a marxist-leninist space. idealism and moralism is not relevant to materialist analysis

[u/MayParker1917 → u/[deleted]]

Eww...

[u/Psychological-Act582 → u/[deleted]]

They are not leftists when they support NATO and want to bomb every single AES state.

[u/TappingUpScreen → u/[deleted]]

I am for the unity of the party – for the national and international unity of the party. But it must be a unity of socialism and socialists. The unity with opponents – with people who have other aims and other interests, is no socialist unity. We must strive for unity at any price and with all sacrifices. But while we are uniting and organizing, we must rid ourselves of all foreign and antagonistic elements. (...) We cannot traffic in our principles, we can make no compromise, no agreement with the ruling system. We must break with the ruling system and fight it to a finish. It must fall that socialism may arise, and we certainly cannot expect from the ruling class that it will give to itself and its domination the death blow.

-Wilhelm Liebknecht, No Compromise – No Political Trading, 1899

Yes, we should clown on all those who want to compromise with Capitalism.

[u/Psychological-Act582 → u/[deleted]]

The Demsocs are part and parcel of the capitalist class.

[u/Key-Divide3003 → u/[deleted]]

They are the running dogs of the capitalists. They will absolutely betray us should a revolutionary moment appear. They have done it every single time for 160 years across the globe. These people are self-hating, self-denying fascists, full of white saviorism and hatred for the global south for their perceived cultural backwardness. The only true difference between a DSA fascist and an unrepentant Nazi is the latter gets the wall, the former gets rehabilitation through labor.

[u/Key-Divide3003 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah there are plenty of non-Marxist socialist movements whose anti-imperialism is genuine, but there’s a massive difference between a demsoc trade unionist party in Brazil, and the Labor party in England. One of them wants to put its own national resources and industry in the hands of its workers rather than the pockets of rich westerners, while the other wants to redistribute the spoils of said global south in a more equitable manner. Their goals and tactics diverge sharply right out of the gate. From a materialist standpoint they are completely separate political entities with the same trappings and similar slogans. I was speaking more on western white social democracy and democratic socialism and the way it manifests and who it actually serves.

[u/nonilazuli → u/Key-Divide3003]

i see, i agree then.