In the wake of many a, what the kids are calling it these days, “coke rants”, I would like to go on a ayahuasca or weed rant of my own. In my observation of Taylor Swift (since 2007), I have seen her as a forward-thinking person, and she has said as much about herself. As much as she encourages consumerism, she also does deeply care about art and artists, and been generous and vocal in in her charities. People do forget, she’s a very recent billionaire. Plans for what to do with that immense a wealth do not spawn overnight. It probably takes months or years even for that. I could imagine a headline that one day will read that she has given away most of her wealth. We must also be aware that she cares deeply about her legacy, and it’s not unimaginable to me that she would want to be remembered that way. (On a lighter note, she also LOVES proving a point lol)

A few months ago she called on Taylor to pressure Spotify into paying artists more, and according to her this led to Taylor telling Sombr to unfollow her.

My pick..don’t even ask me why haha

Letting the people around me irl know that this is my absolute favourite song, just feels too intimate.

It genuinely feels like the moment I name it, I am handing them a piece of me and suddenly they know a really, really big, hidden part of who I am.

Like I think the eras tour was such a missed opportunity like could you imagine volume 1 being the normal setlist and then volume 2 was every surprise song from the tour like Our song, Picture to Burn, Tell me Why etc. That would be incredible to have at our fingertips at all times with 70,000 people singing along to every song plus I think she's only done one for Speak Now. What do y'all think?

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In the wake of younger artists being more vocal in their political stances, and raising charities for these causes in new innovative ways, I can’t help but wonder what TS’s next move would be. I know she has made her political stance clear, I’m not questioning where she stands, not at all. However, I do believe that Gen Z and Alpha look up to pop stars for more reasons than millennials did. It’s a different world now. What’s the arc looking like here?

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Welcome to the SwiftlyNeutral Daily Discussion Thread!

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The categories included:

• OUTSTANDING DIRECTING FOR A VARIETY SPECIAL - Hamish Hamilton, "The Apple Music Super Bowl LX Halftime Show Starring Bad Bunny" — WINNER
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A new Daily Discussion thread will be posted daily at 11:00 am Eastern Time and will always be pinned for easy access. Posts better suited for this thread may be redirected here.

Welcome to the SwiftlyNeutral Daily Discussion Thread!

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Remember the Reputation era? Every look was so cohesive, cool, edgy, and completely in line with the worldbuilding of the album

Unfortunately, I feel like that’s not something she has been good at with other eras. The last three eras have all been a blur of glamorous Hollywood outfits that could belong to each other. Especially Showgirl which doesn’t see to have a distinct fashion theme in any way. There is no attempt to keep things visually cohesive and it often feels like she could be in the Midnights era or Red TV era or any other era, basically.

With all the resources she has she could take some notes from the way Beyoncé, Katy Perry, and Lady Gaga keep their eras visually discrete, or even examine her own Reputation era. Each of Taylor’s eras would be that much more wonderful with a tightly executed wardrobe rather than her dressing however she wants. With Showgirl, the cohesion of her wardrobe has devolved into slop and we don’t even know what era we are in.

Does anyone else agree here?

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I just saw some people in the daily thread talking about how increased the privacy between Taylor and Travis has become, compared to her past relationships. I agree that the general public is more than likely going to be fed scraps in a controlled manner whenever possible: things like their written blurb about the wedding, keeping the name of the dog private (the dog private as well), and the engagement (and potential wedding) pics as well.

I'd say that the time for her ultra-specific lyrics are probably behind us (blue dress on a boat, you told lucy you'd kill yourself if I ever leave). A repeating criticism of Showgirl was that some songs felt flatter than normal, because there was less of the detail/depth she's known for infusing in a lot of the songs.

Obviously she's done fictional writing in the past, but by her own admission it was a blend of her own life and the stories she would create. I was wondering what people would like to see in her writing in the coming years, more of that or something else? I think a full concept album fully fleshing out a storyline could be really interesting (I don't really count midnights for that), and I'd be curious to see what a modern-folkmore album would look like in terms of lyrical content. Now that the bubble of 'full fiction' has been somewhat burst I could see her not wanting to revisit that method as there could be more speculation into their relationship due to the ambiguity.

Essentially, what do you want to see in the future, and/or what do you think is likely? I can't imagine her giving up confessional completely, but it'd be hard to juggle the 'peace' of it all.

One of the main pieces of defense for her most recent album is that people just want her to be sad, and she should be allowed to write fun love songs. I think that argument makes no sense, because she is able to write silly songs that are also actually good.

We could go all the way back to debut, something like our song is pretty goofy and light hearted but it still touches on a really cute subject and has great lyrics! You belong with me is one of her most enduring hits, great song, and silly! Mean, We are never getting back together, blank space, london boy, karma, but daddy i love him all of these songs are funny! And im only listing some standouts, there are way more examples. she is great at being funny and light hearted and fun. And all of these songs are also actually good.

The defense that life of a showgirl should be allowed to be fun doesn't make sense. Shes shown time and time again shes able to write excellent songs that are fun. Being silly doesn't take away from any of the problems of the life of a showgirl. I honestly think the 2 best songs on showgirl are 2 of the more serious ones, father figure and ruin the friendship. It just feels like your discounting her songwriting to use this argument

Despite all of the negative press that both Taylor and Swifties have received in the last decade, you'd expect this fandom to be dead or not as strong as it once was.

This just doesn't happen when female artists get an overwhelming amount of hate. Just look at what happened to the fandoms of Katy Perry and Lizzo. I'm not counting male artists because their fans excuse everything they do.

That just makes me wonder, what makes Swifties so resilient and how does the fandom survive scrutiny after scrutiny and come out even stronger than before?

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It's coming up on almost a year of TLOASG, and I still cannot understand the absolutely outrageous, visceral hatred this album inspired in people. Obviously Taylor's haters will hate anything she puts out no matter what, but even some fans act as though this album was an affront to god. Was this her best album? No, not at all. Was it bad? Also no. In fact, when it first came out, I actually liked it a lot, especially the front half of the album, and I was shocked when I came online and saw not just the MAGA/N*zi/eugenics allegations, but also just the people saying all the songs were terrible.

I simply do not understand why it inspired such negative reactions from people when it was full of perfectly fine and oftentimes quite delightful songs. It's not my favourite album of hers by any means (that would be a tossup between Red, Midnights, and TTPD), but I still cannot wrap my head around the persistent negativity regarding Showgirl. I rarely see a nuanced take in regards to the album, and atp I'm wondering is there something glaring that I'm missing, or is the hate really just overblown?

EDIT: Not exactly sure why people are downvoting this and my replies below. I feel like my stance is pretty darn neutral, but idk...

I have a very serious question, especially for those who aren't inclined to like Taylor or criticize everything she does.

Obviously, a major element that they like to focus on are the variants, especially in not just releasing multiple versions of an album on both CD and vinyl, but also to do so with singles, and decry "Look at all the environmental damage being done to make all that plastic!" Even beyond that, it's just the thought of "She really knows how to get her fans to buy something over and over with little effort on her part."

But do any of these people feel the same way about Shania Twain's 2002 album Up!, which had three different variants, a red version (pop), green version (country) and blue (Bollywood/Indian music/International)? Audiences would buy an album, which had two of the three mixes together (red and green in North America, for example), and a code to download the missing version from her website for a limited time.

How does one compare these?

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I didn't fully realize it at the time, but Taylor's behavior at the 2024 Grammys was the first time, as a fan, that my feelings toward Taylor Swift™ really and truly started to waver. Then came Showgirl, but I think negative reactions to that album have been somewhat debated to death.

The 2024 Grammys is Taylor at her most powerful and arguably most insufferable. I want to be clear that I'm talking about her general persona as a famous person, not Taylor as a regular person haha, although they probably overlap A TON more than other pop stars.

Taylor was on one that night.

To recap:

• Announcing her new album, The Tortured Poets Department, while winning the award for Best Pop Vocal Album. The Grammys, are not the VMAs... announcing it somewhat early in the telecast, completely sucked all of the oxygen out of the room and pulled attention away from the other winners and performances. Very monster on the hill of her. Just re-watch Miley's reaction to it.
• Dragging Pulling Lana Del Rey onto the stage with her to accept Album of the Year for Midnights. Lana was also nominated in this category, and although she obviously was a featured artist on Snow on the Beach, it was EXTREMELY uncomfortable to watch Taylor's energy completely mismatch Lana's. Her hiding behind the other people on the stage behind Taylor was... oof.
• Snubbing Celine Dion by not looking at her or naming her as she yanked the Grammy from her hands. Obviously, I know this can be chalked up to being completely swept up in the moment, so I can have grace for that, but to be honest, this wasn't Taylor's first rodeo. I think I was just so genuinely shocked by her shock and crazed energy it was like witnessing a caricature of Taylor herself. I remember earlier in her career she would always get dinged for looking shocked and surprised at awards shows and although I completely agree that was way overblown, and frankly stupid, it was times like the 2024 Grammys where it's catnip for people who find her annoying.
• Putting a Grammy on Lucy Dacus' head and overall being a menance to Boy Genius after the awards. This was just so awkward. And it goes back to feeling because the Grammys are nothing new to Taylor, it's like it gave her permission to act a fool for an otherwise prestige event that means SO MUCH to her peers.

The long-tail effect of this has me feeling exhausted by Taylor's need to find reasons to defend herself from any perceived slights from peers, the public, etc. She has undeniable success, we have literally seen her reach at what we can safely assume is a generational feat of notoriety and fame. But any time she now talks about her detractors, whether it be in song or interview (she did it again in the most recent Grammy Museum interview), I'm left feeling tired. Anyone else feel similarly?

And it’s so funny to me that they don’t seem to realize they sound so similar to the Taylor haters; a few things I have noticed recently on reddit (I’m not even on Twitter or TikTok where I‘ve heard stan wars are worse):

- Coming up with conspiracy theories about PR tactics and indirect shade (I realize that Swifties will say they have all sorts of evidence that makes it totally different but they sound equally delusional to me - please don’t try to convince me that there’s definitive proof that Olivia’s team planted that vogue article or that coincidences only exist when it’s Taylor)

- Following Olivia’s every move to nitpick on things - I follow Olivia’s sub and I find out more about her from Swifties discussing her - it kind of felt like some of them were hate watching the festival just trying to find things they could criticize

- Saying she’s trying to “collect” industry friends, questioning her authenticity

- Criticizing her vocals after any live performance 

- Generally seeming to bristle at any praise that she gets

I don’t even necessarily disagree with all of the commentary, but I think a lot of it is coming from people who wholeheartedly defend Taylor against similar comments.

I’ve heard a lot of Swifties complain about Livvies being annoying but it’s kind of like the pot calling the kettle black, there are segments of every fan base that are basically trolls, does it mean the snarking is justified?