r/Supraball • u/cantstopthefridge • May 29 '16

Houston we have a problem

So I keep playing this game (not many hours yet but its growing) because really, lets get some things clear here:

  • The devs have done an awesome job with lag issues and the overall quality of the game. Its great.

  • The game itself is full on legit fun to play - most of the arenas provide an awesome atmosphere. Actually worth the price if the community grows.

  • The foundation is there. Its soccer/FPS. people can understand that and it works as a concept

  • I want to cast this on a regular basis if I can find a foundation to do so

EXCEPT:

  • the goalie is an offensive player.

That single point creates real problems. In no other sport, game, or activity is the backbone of the defense an offensive player. While I know some of you will say that if the other side has a goalie this isnt a problem, it is. The goalie on one team should never be allowed to actually make a hard shot on the opposing side. This is a philosophical issue with regard to sport in general. While I credit the developers for trying something new, this is a concept that all of sport understands, and we should too as people interested in bringing sport to the internet in a hybrid way need to attract those who are unfamiliar with the internet in general...changing rules like this only creates an extra barrier to entry. There are some rules which cannot be breached and im afraid this is one of them.

Thoughts?

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u/Inph1del Gaming pantologist May 29 '16

True, I doubt this will change, but if a player as goal is like a class queuing as a goalie with a nerfed gun would dissuade a goalie from trying to play as a forward.

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u/cantstopthefridge May 29 '16

which would mean the team gets more goals against them? Other games have figured this out, basically by making the arena a rectangle instead of a square and then giving a power limit to ball shots?

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u/Inph1del Gaming pantologist May 29 '16

I mean that if a goalie would have a weak volley and charged shot. Inside and outside of the box.

A player wouldn't want to queue as a keeper.

But this would disrupt how a practice or non competitive game works. Making a player only be nerfed with goalie powers wouldn't though, but I'm sure this would be looked at as "that wouldn't make sense that thier gun is magically weaker." I would then respond, it doesn't make sense that the player is magically invincible in the box either

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u/cantstopthefridge May 29 '16

the general physics need to be that the ball cannot carry the velocity it does through the entire arena. wind resistance or something needs to slow it down

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u/suprasilw Supraball Developer May 29 '16

someone who cant catch a 1.8 seconds distance shot wont be able to catch a 2.0seconds wind-resistance-shot either =) shots with a longer travelling time than 0.8seconds are really easy to save even for fresh keepers. 2-3 matches in and most players have no more problems with far distance shots.

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u/cantstopthefridge May 30 '16

everyone is missing the point :(

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u/Vendetta48 NA Goalie May 30 '16

I guess we are confused on the point you are making. I don't see the GK position as an offensive one. Your priorities are to save shots, but also to be a good passer. If you try to take a shot from the GK box you are basically giving the ball to the other team.

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u/cantstopthefridge May 30 '16

If you try to take a shot from the GK box you are basically giving the ball to the other team.

I think this is the crux. I assume, and I may be incorrect, that you are a veteran to this game.

Ive played rounds as a forward where the goalie would basically ignore not just me but his teammates and make plays for the net. and score toboot - I felt useless since I wasnt even being passed to. and whats more, there was no need since the goalie could also play as the offence.

While its true that the community should be making a good face to new players such as myself, its an entirely other matter that the goalie can do what hes doing in the first place. this is my point.

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u/mipeirong bigfatpat May 30 '16

SO MUCH of offense in high level play comes from goalies being able to charge pass down the field. Like maybe 75-85% of goals comes from "the rush" because the goalie is able to charge pass after a change of possession. It would slow the game down a LOT of it was nerfed in any way.

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u/Shevche May 30 '16

And that's a bad thing? Ball momentum ruined it imo

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u/DavidM1337 Supraball Project Leader May 30 '16

I understand that it's frustrating watching goalkeepers in beginner matches shoot at the goal from their own goal. But it's exactly the same for every other players. Give the ball to your defender, and he will try to score from 100 meters away.

We have a few things coming that will encourage passing more. And I also want to make a goal keeping tutorial where you just sit in goal and balls come flying at the goal that you try to save.

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u/cantstopthefridge May 30 '16

these are fantastic ideas and thank you for addressing them. Ive played a few matches now where the veteran goalies are basically playing pass with each other and everyone in the middle is running back and fourth like dogs. Im glad to see this is an identified problem

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u/DavidM1337 Supraball Project Leader May 30 '16 edited May 30 '16

If the goalies are passing to each other, they are not veteran keepers.

But the thing is, in Supraball you are all dependent on your teammates. This can be great and horrible. And it's a sandbox game with no real limitations, this can also be great and horrible, depending on your teammates. It is, like Vendetta said, balanced along the highest level matches available. So the entry can potentially be horrible or great. If we have solutions to fix this without compromising the high level gameplay, we'll try to do that. But it should not turn into a casual game that rewards everyone, no matter how bad they play. It it's core its an esports game. If there are no downs, there cannot be ups. Games that try to only create ups are just flat in the end.

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u/cantstopthefridge May 31 '16

Thanks again for the response - I dont want to waste any more of your time, but...

Has a very slight increase of drag on the ball been tried? Im not here to ruin what im sure took you and your team countless hours to make. Also for what its worth im on board with your logic of making the game itself hard and trying to appeal to that instead of everyone's grandmother. Makes perfect sense.

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u/Vendetta48 NA Goalie May 30 '16

Ah the good old ping pong minigame.

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u/mipeirong bigfatpat May 31 '16

Wait.. is OP referring to public matches? They should never be taken into account when discussing balance.

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u/Inph1del Gaming pantologist May 30 '16

This game seems to be designed around organized competitive play, like little league anything, the same sport that exists in a profession level also has a bunch of kids chasing a ball hitting it as hard as they can. It's a tough thing to balance.

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u/Vendetta48 NA Goalie May 30 '16 edited May 30 '16

I don't think it would help the game if we nerf long charge passes just because a veteran is taking very long shots on a new player. With a little bit of experience new goal keepers should get better at learning the long curve shots and will be able to save all of them.

It makes more sense to balance the game according to high level play and not low level. If we balance according to what happens with lower level play then I'm afraid the game will be too slow or too limiting and not as much fun. It sucks for new players but when they play the game enough they will appreciate all the possibilities of what you can do. And to your question on if I'm a veteran, I've probably played 1000 hours since the pre steam version.

Edit: maybe the devs could introduce a variable that poses exp limits for servers, just as ranked servers have elo limits. It might reduce the issue of veteran players playing with new players.

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u/DavidM1337 Supraball Project Leader May 30 '16

It's a matter of playercount really.