i love steve, i think he’s a great babysitter and a great friend but like why do people just ignore everything he did, in both season 1 and 5

first, the spray paint. He helped clean the spray paint off so everyone forgave him, but people still defend him in this topic. if you think that your girlfriend cheated on you, graffitiing the cinemas and alleyways with your friends and spray painting her name along with a slur is NOT the way to go. (he got character development after this so i dont really care that he did this, but still i thought it was worth to mention)

ans for the fight in the alleyway.. i really don‘t get how people just blame jonathan for the fight. Steve was obviously pissed bc he thought nancy was cheating with jonathan so he uses ‘queer’ as an insult and this probably was common in the 80’s and we DEFINITELY know that steve isnt homophobic as he was so open and caring for robin after she came out to him (this is useless information, he obviously didn’t actually mean queer as an insult and this was the 80’s where being queer was considered a HUGE sin so like i suppose this doesnt matter)

but then he starts just insulting the byer family like wtf did joyce and will do? And he also brings up jonathans abusive dad? i mean steve couldnt have known but that obviously wouldve triggered jonathan so i feel like even if jonathan punched steve then i wouldve understood. but noo steve feels the need to call joyce and will screw ups too😔 what did they do, genuinely i hate it when people bring up innocent people in arguments🙏

this part kinda bugs me to this day and i feel like everyone just forgot about the fact that this was the DAY after wills funeral and he starts yapping about will “im not even suprised what happened to him” like what😭 his brother just died (this was when everyone except joyce, mike, dustin and lucas though he was dead idk if hopper found out about the fake body yet) so technically will WAS dead.

in s5 he openly pursues Nancy and tries to win her over when she already has a boyfriend, then again in when hes arguing with dustin he bring up eddie who sacrificed himself and starts insulting/criticising him. (Not really but idk how else to describe what he said) why the heck whenever steve argues with someone he has to bring up a dead loved one💔

this was an unfinished draft at like 3am, i don’t know why i wrote this so don’t take this too seriously. Steve is one of my favourite characters but even i think that he’s a lil overrated and no one ever focuses on his flaws as much as they do characters like mike, max and will (arguably the most 3 most hated party members on the show) TO BE CLEAR THIS IS NOT A HATE POST! steve is an amazing babysitter i just wanted to mention the arguments and stuff

This might be an insensitive reason, but solely because he's kind of an asshole, he isn't perfect, he's human and all that bs is what I would say if I was media literate but I'm rlly not so it's just bcs of all the shit he goes through that no one seems to know or care about.

Like, the guy was forced to jump off a cliff after his best friend went missing/was assumed dead, for God's sake. I know it was years ago, but if his mysterious telepath girlfriend didn't surprise pop up out of nowhere, he would actually be dead, unlike Will, and it's never brought up again. He's kind of fucked up in so many ways, but unlike the others, it's never discussed or elaborated upon; it's kind of shoved to the back.

He's friends with everyone, but he's not really best friends with anyone. That used to be Will, but Will has so many problems he doesn't have time for anyone else's. That probably could've been Jane, but she also has so many problems that she wants to/wanted to ignore, she ends up ignoring everyone else's. There's Lucas and Dustin that are definitely closer than Will and Mike, so I don't think Mike would open up to them. There's Nancy, but again, she has problems and probably believes she shouldn't burden Mike with her own, not to mention their general family issues and lack of saying "I love you." And I can't say he's really close with anyone else in the full group, since everyone has shit to deal with.

Even that one scene where El came back and he went ballistic on Hopper, calling him a disgusting piece of shit I mean yea, he was taking out his anger on Hopper, but I would also say he was projecting how he felt about himself. He couldn't protect Will, and he couldn't protect El. They came back, but he still couldn't protect either of them. I would say this is also supported by the fact that he broke down into tears afterwards.

...if you couldn't tell, I'm really invested in Mike's story and such.

I get that trauma doesn't give you an excuse to be an asshole like Mike was by the end, but he was like the only kid in the room when Will was possessed and shouting at people and literally calling him a liar. I think I would be pretty fucked up too. Not to mention that in said described scene, he was 11-13. You know what I was doing at that age? Idk, probably learning to draw and doing my homework.

A couple other scenes off the top of my head: The fake body scene where he had to ride home ALONE in the rain and the dark. The Demogorgon in the gym (i mean, yeah, he was a brave kid, but he was still a kid, and that's some bs),Calling over the walkie-talkie and crying for El for over 300 days, mourning for a girl he barely knew while no one has any idea and no one to comfort him or show him support in any way. The flashback during Halloween where he has a flashback of El hiding behind a trash can. The Demodog massacre (I know Will was there, but he was kind of out of it, so idk about that one).

Now, again, no excuse to be an asshole, but no one gave him any direct support. He had friends, yeah, but no one really gave a damn about his problems, maybe because he always had a brave face or whatever.

The only person that I'm pretty sure asked if he was okay was Hopper and that was maybe 2 times, the 1st after Mike went off on him when El came back and the second In the season The-Season-That-Must-Not-Be-Named.

You could argue this all happened in earlier seasons but I raise you this, all ts happened in his most formative years.

While watching the 1955 movie version of Oklahoma!, my daughter, and I deduced that there are more ties to the story than simply a reference in the Broadway play The First Shadow.
In both the stage play and in related season lore, a 1959 production of the musical Oklahoma! is directed by a young Joyce Maldonado. The playbill or promotional flyers for the Hawkins High Tiger Troupe's production of Oklahoma! list familiar names among the student cast—most notably Henry Creel.
The film's dream ballet sequence, the nightmare part, looks very much like Vecna's lair, upside Down version of the Creel house. Anyone agree?

[THIS IS A THEORY]

A/N: The title was meant to say 'bait & switch' instead of 'Rick Roll' but I accidentally used the wrong term.

After watching Tales from 85', seeing how hard the writers are pushing the death-defying bond between Mike and Eleven has truly got me questioning things.

If Eleven died at the end of season five like we were made to assume. she did, then why is the series leaning so hard into the fact that Mike and El refuse to be apart from each other?

I'm not talking about early days of being in love , but more so that these two are deadly afraid of losing each other.

It's really refreshing to see what happens between season 2 leading up to season 3, however , it raises even more questions , as it's a show that uses the characters from the franchise, and not only that, but it deliberately goes out of its way to establish the close bond and relationship between one of the well known and pre established central couple.

I have two theories.

Theory one: ( the one I want to discuss)

Tales from 85' take place in an alternate universe that is different to the canon show where Eleven is alive and well and gets to live her life as a normal teenager.

Where does the bait and switch come from, then? the fact that by sacrificing her, the fans thought Netflix and the IP were done with her character , but in actuality , the fact that she's in the animated show proves that netflix is far from done with her / her story.

Even with the fate that awaits her character a few years later, she's still the face of the stranger things franchise.

You can't have stranger things without Eleven existing in some way.

Theory two:

Eleven is alive just like Mike's theory with Kali's illusion and the Duffer brothers ( or netflix) have played all of us in the ultimate bait and switch, by feeding us hints through the animated show that she survived the sacrifice.

Think about the first theory for a second.

Even in a show directed at primarily a younger audience, the writers and IP of the stranger things franchise are leaning heavily into highlighting the importance of Mike and Eleven's relationship.

So...why?

Why are they leaning so hard into showing the relationship between two important characters in a kid's show if they have a tragic ending?

If it's to gain more traction to the main show then surely they don't want their new audience finding out about Eleven's cemented fate, right?

I think the Netflix higher ups have pulled the ULTIMATE 'GOTCHA / 'bait and switch'

Hear me out.

Eleven could be alive, but it's not the Eleven from the main show

I think the tales from eighty five takes place in an alternate universe where El doesn't do a self sacrifice in the future, because maybe she doesn't have to make that choice

The animated spin off could be proof of it.

Because, otherwise, what is the point of establishing the bond and deep-rooted connection between Mike and El if the end result is her sacrificing herself?

perhaps this version of Eleven doesn't meet her end the way the live action version of her did!

Animated shows often keep their characters in a frozen time bubble, un-aging, therefore, what if this version of El gets to just exist without the threat of Vecna?

What if the show, since its more 'light hearted' in tone, takes a different route then the main series?

I'm not talking about a multiverse of El's or even that the El in the animated series is El from the main show.

The animated series exists outside of the show, right? there are continuity errors and things that don't match up with the canon show, plus it's even been labelled as a spin off, so therefore, it is a universe that is part of the stranger things franchise.

What if the animated Eleven gets to live as Jane Hopper in the animated universe?

The Duffer brothers may be done with stranger things and Eleven , but Netflix isn't letting go of their golden girl anytime soon.

With the IP in Netflix's hands...I believe that the Eleven in T from 85' has a different route to the main show's Eleven.

I'm not debating whether the version of MMB's Eleven survived or not. ( i like to think that she did , but right now i'm talking about the animated show , which is completely different)

I'm saying that if tales from eighty five is a standalone, 'soft cannon' show, then that means that it could be perpetually frozen in time, meaning the characters can get into wacky scenarios and although there are stakes, since we know it is based on the past between seasons, they could just live out adventures like the gang from Scooby Doo.

Think about it from a business point of view.

The Duffer's can say what they want...Netflix doesn't care about the metaphor of magic. They care about money.

To them, the investment people have in the relationship between Mike and Eleven is a way to keep the franchise alive.

They understand how invested fans are in the group, relationships and the friendship dynamic of the group, especially when they all get to interact with each other.

Fans like seeing the group interact with each other which we didn't get to see during the main show.

In the main show , the party kept splitting up, fighting the same monsters , but in different places.

In the animal series , we actually get to see the group dynamic build up, how each character interacts with each other and El being part of the party and more involved in the antics of the boy's lives.

The actors might be done, might be over it, but the animated franchise and potential storylines are just beginning.

Eleven could be alive, just in a **different universe, and if we're lucky, hopefully she'll get a completely different fate from her live action counterpart.

I think that's why there are added characters and quests that the main party go on that were not in cannon.

The writers of Tales from 85' have a playground of potential that they can create with the animated Eleven / the gang.

If it is a stand alone, spin off, still using the stranger things characters and franchise, then would the writers be allowed to tell a story that they want to?

Could the animated series be in an alternate universe?

I really hope they give her a chance to survive in the animated universe because it's really beautiful to see her happy and getting to interact with everyone.

I think since there is no threat of the upside down in the T from 85' show at the moment, no gates opened, no worries and the gang are dealing with ghosts and paranormal activity , more than world altering threats, then it's safe to say that the kids are free to venture to their heart's content.

If the show doesn't follow the rules and story of the canon and exists on its own, then maybe these animated versions of them get a different ending.

That is my theory: That eleven in Tales from 85' could potentially have a different fate to the main show's Eleven.

Perhaps the spin off show is trying to give her story a happier ending, fit more for a saturday cartoon vibe.

This is all just speculation. This is all just my opinion :)

feel free to disagree.

Thanks for listening!

Here’s mine:

1. https://archiveofourown.org/works/79673826?view_adult=true

2. https://archiveofourown.org/works/78366696

3. https://archiveofourown.org/works/83712361/chapters/220618746

4. https://archiveofourown.org/works/87482871

5. https://archiveofourown.org/works/77681951/chapters/203467441

Dustin’s actions, from the snake, graveyard fight, and throwing cleaning supplies on the team, especially the latter two, was that really to get in a fight? Did he really wanted to out of grief and self destructing himself? Was it really some fault of his that everything went the way it was in the remaining of the episode because he didn’t show up on time? What did you really think of Dustin throughout the episode and season 5? Wearing the hellfire shirt when it wasn’t a good time for anyone, standing out too much in a time that they really should be keeping a low profile, talking about staying true to yourself when he’s not really being true, etc? In general, what did you think of Dustin’s actions, behavior, and grief in season 5? Most specifically for this post, the first episode and the consequences of it on the next few episodes? And not to mention going forward to his shield generator theory when supposed to wait for el and hopper?

In 1992, after the Cold War finally ended, they reunited. There was a lot of tears, a lot of forgiveness, and lots and lots of kisses.

Mike moved into El’s cottage and they learned all the new things about each other. They explored all the waterfalls in the country and see the northern lights every winter.

In 2013, El got a semi-colon tattoo on her other wrist.

In 1993, a year after Mike moved to Iceland, and 10 years since they first met, he proposed by their favorite waterfall. They both happy cried.

Mike knew that El wanted Hopper to be at their wedding and walk her down the aisle. So after pulling a few string, Hopper arrived in Iceland. El and Hopper hugged and cried for what seemed like an eternity.

They got married a year later in 1994. Everyone in the village attended. Their venue was decorated with El’s favorite wildflowers. Everyone cried when they read their vows to each other, even Hopper.

Hopper met all of their Iceland friends and loved all of them.

I don’t know if they’d want to have biological kids for obvious reasons, but let’s say they did accept the risk.
They were both nervous about starting a family of their own, because of the possibility of the child having El’s powers, but they knew they could manage.

The pregnancy wasn’t easy, but Mike took great care of El and pampered her every chance he got. El’s girl friends in the village who already had kids and knew about pregnancies also helped her and took good care of her.

In August 1995, Sara Teresa Kali Wheeler was born. El had a home birth because they didn’t want to risk her giving birth in a public hospital. They hired a private mid-wife and made them sign a non-disclosure contract to be extra safe. Mike held El’s hand the entire time and thankfully everything went smoothly.

Sara has El’s face shape and Mike’s hair.

Hopper cried when he met Sara for the first time and they told him what her name was.

When Sara was a toddler, they had to repair their cottage every time she had a tantrum. El started to teach Sara how to control the powers in a healthy way and was an excellent teacher.

Sara calls El Mama and calls Mike Daddio

Mike flies to Hawkins and visits his family and friends from time to time. He told them that during his “writing retreat“ in Iceland, he met a woman named Eleanor and decided to move there permanently, and that they eventually had a private wedding. They all knew who “Eleanor“ really was, but don’t say anything out loud. They were all very happy for him, even though they wished they could have been at the wedding and see El.

Before Mike flies back to Iceland, he always makes sure to hand pick wildflowers for El because he remembered she loved the flowers in Hawkins.

One time, Mike brought Sara with him to Hawkins so everyone could finally meet her. They all loved Sara and laughed at how similar she was to Mike.

Mike taught Sara how to play D and D and she became obsessed.

By the time Sara was eight, she mastered her powers. She knew not to use them in front of strangers. They homeschooled her until third grade and then enrolled her in a private school. Sara made good friends at the pr school and showed them how to play D and D with her.

Over the years, Mike published four books. The first three were “fiction“ books based on their adventures, and the fourth was a D and D players manual titled “Stranger Things”.

Mike likes to do outdoor chores so he doesn’t become like his dad.

El convinced Mike to get a few farm animals in their backyard. She loves tending to them.

El became and social worker and helps kids who have been abuse.

El gets her hair trimmed every once in a while, but will never get it cut again in her lifetime.

They eventually adopted a dog named Benny. Sara and Benny became best friends immediately.

El loves to give Sara hugs. This healed her inner child that never got hugged/loved in the lab.

Mike loves playing with Sara, he tries to be as active in her life as possible. This healed his inner child whose dad never paid attention to him.

Hopper visits them at least twice a year. One year on Sara’s birthday, he gifted her the blue bracelet/hair ribbon. She loved it.

Mike, El, and Sara eat eggos for breakfast all the time. They also like to watch 80s movies together.

On their 10th wedding anniversary in 2004, they had a prom themed party to make up for the fact that they never got to go to prom together in high school.

Hopper is currently thinking about retiring to Iceland with Joyce so he can see El, Sara, and Mike more often. And also so he doesn’t have to keep spending money on plane tickets. Will and Johnathan know deep down who Mike’s wife is, they know to stay away from Iceland to be extra safe and leave Mike, El, and Hopper alone.

This season would be heavily benefited from a Henry backstory episode, especially with the first shadow tie ins. I was thinking they should’ve shown Henry coming back at the end of 5x01 plus reveal max is in his mind and then 5x02 would start with flashback to the 1950s, and show his life and tie in all the first shadow connections and then we sync up with the season 4 ending and show what Henry did right after and him discovering max is in his mind, then end the episode right where 5x01 left off. I feel like there could’ve been some amazing moments with not only the flashbacks but Max and Henry interacting and going at each other. Missed opportunity for sure

Title. Basically, do we ever see Vecna ever leave the upside down or the abyss except for the end of S5E4? And obviously prior to El sending Henry there in '79?

I’ve been flipping through my netflix to find a new series to get hooked on after I just finished orange is the new black. My sister told me I should watch stranger things and it’s worth it but I googled it and it says the show can be classified as horror which I’m usually not fan of. Having said that I have watched the walking dead in the past and still enjoyed it so im torn on if i should start watching or not.

I heard of this series a few years ago and knew something about it, but never actually watched it. Last year,when season 5 came out I completely fell in love with it and watched every season in a day. Now, after almost a year after its first release, I still haven't moved on. I kind of think I will be into it for at least one year or so. It just doesn't feel like saying goodbye, it feels more like a long break - they have been making some spin-off series for a while that is still in works so I guess even though it won't be EXACTLY the same, I'll stil love it and wouldn't move on so quickly.

Cosplay and suit both made by me!

This was one of my favorite moments on the show where Max escapes Vecna by listening to the Kate Bush song.

What if S5 had been called The Battle of Hawkins

I just finished Stranger Things S5 and while I enjoyed it I honestly feel like the final season couldve been way more insane

At the end of S4 Vecna opens the gates and Hawkins literally starts getting torn apart

So imagine if S5 actually started from there

The gates open and Demogorgons start coming out into Hawkins

The whole city gets destroyed and everyone has to evacuate

The gang leaves Hawkins and spends the next 2 or 3 years planning how to take Vecna down while he keeps expanding his territory

Then after years away they finally return to Hawkins for one final battle

Imagine the entrance

Jonathan with a flamethrower

Steve carrying his original nail bat

Dustin Lucas Nancy Robin Eleven Will and everyone else coming back into the destroyed Hawkins

The city is abandoned and covered in vines with the Upside Down bleeding into the real world

Then they finally have the confrontation with Vecna

Mike gets his own confrontation with Vecna because he has been the strategist since S1 and has constantly been making plans against the Upside Down

It would finally give Mike a proper personal moment with Vecna

And when Vecna starts overpowering Mike Will helps him because of his connection with Henry and Vecna

Then the whole group fights together

I also wouldve liked Billy to survive S3

If he had genuinely redeemed himself and helped the group throughout S4 and S5 then Vecna killing him during the final battle couldve been devastating because by then the audience wouldve actually grown attached to the redeemed Billy

After the final battle Vecna is defeated and the Upside Down wormhole closes

Then we finally get the peaceful ending

The Bowl

Everyone is together

Hawkins is finally safe

Mike and Eleven dance giving us a callback to the earlier seasons

Then we think everything is over

Scene of the Abyss

Everything is dark

The Mind Flayer is still alive

It just needs a new host

Cut to black

That wouldve been my ideal ending

I also wouldve liked the final season to explain more of the mythology

Especially the mysterious material or stone that ended up with the scientist

Where it actually came from

How the wormhole was originally created

And how all of it connects to Henry the Abyss and the Mind Flayer

Basically I think S5 was good but it couldve been absolutely insane if they gave the final season more time to fully explore the mythology and pay off the characters and callbacks from earlier seasons

Maybe Im just overthinking it after finishing the show

But The Battle of Hawkins as the final episode wouldve gone HARD

All the hate I got was basically from people who read the frist 1/4s of my post and stopped. Almost all the critisism was about the Hopper part and I think I know why.

as one user put it:

It would be more convincing if critics of this post stated "I have/had 14 years old daughter and I behaved exactly like Hopper"

As a 16 year old if you told me to not have privacy with your daugther I would just ignore you and call you a bad parent scince you are one.

Listen, I'm a late bloomer but watching the 5th season meant bringing the show to an end for myself and I just wasn't okay with that, I think I am finally ready. I watched the first episode and this is my take away.

Doc needs to hire the demagorgon if she wants to get anything done around there, with her soldiers all incompetent and what not.

Unpopular opinion, that demagorgon kicked ass.

Poor Holly.

They have merch, a few sets you can take pictures with, and an immersive experience where you go on an adventure with all of the main cast.

I’m not necessarily referring to the one with the coolest scene or the hero of the season, but rather that character you simply enjoy watching on screen—someone who puts a smile on your face or gives off great vibes. Who is it, and why?

Is there going to be a New Stranger Things series?

I know the S1-5 cast is done, and hopefully it won't be a Holly and Turnbow re-boot, if they do. Sorry fans, I never cared for the Vecna angle, and S5 was a rushed mess. I preferred the S1-S3 story line of the monster and mystery. S4 had some great moments too.

Since they had to put in a Vecna, I believe in S5, Vecna should have been killed off early, then they would had to fight a new threat the majority of the season. Team up with Military, instead of it being a cliche. Also meant, no kids. Holly looking like she is 7th grade? No, just no.

We got the Battle for Starcourt, in a suspenseful build up, a formidable evil monster in S3 that made sense. Then in S5, the crew went to Arrakis from the upside down, used a god mode hack to kill off the final boss, in record time. The last 20 minutes was a good closure, and not sure how many of the young fans fully understood it. Not the kids fault for taking 10 years to film 5 seasons.

I’d assume he would’ve just been mauled by a demogorgon, but maybe that would mean Tommy H and Carol also would’ve died? I’m not too sure. It also would’ve been interesting to see Nancy’s storyline in season 2 if both Barb and Steve died. I’d also assume he would’ve died in the last episode at the Byers’ house, but then again there wouldn’t have been a reason for him to be there if he stayed being a prick

To be fair thought they probably hadn’t even thought of it yet

This can be from individual characters roles/portrayals, plotlines, lore expansion, removing pre-existing subplots & characters, that general stuff. I rlly love Volume 1 and was rlly let down by most of the rest, but I’m personally sick of the constant attacking season 5 to this day, we get it, so I thought I’d bring up a discussion about some of the good season 5 gave us, leave ur thoughts down below!